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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » IDSA solved our problems! They have the answers!

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Author Topic: IDSA solved our problems! They have the answers!
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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It's the new "Amber Theory". THAT is why we are still sick!

You're gonna love it. I can't stop laughing!

[lol]

My summary of this article by Wormser, et al.-

Our dead spirochetes (all killed, of course, with the 3 weeks of IDSA recommended antibiotic therapy) are wrapped in "amber" ...

And that tiny package of gift-wrapped trash sits around inside us being dead, and once in a while it wiggles its way in and out of our joints and causes swelling and arthritis that comes and goes.

Ahhhhhhhhh!!!! It is like the living dead coming back to haunt us! Pretty smart spirochete debris, I must say. And this new amber theory is based on their experience with "one" patient.

This is so pitiful, it's actually funny.

QUOTES-

"This process appears to be caused by the presence of viable B. burgdorferi cells in the joint but outside of the synovial fluid compartment, since such recurrences are effectively reduced in frequency by antibiotic therapy as demonstrated by multiple treatment trials, including one that was randomized, double-blind, and placebo-controlled." [Wonder who did THAT study? Duh.]

"Insights from a patient we encountered suggest a plausible explanation that has not been previously proposed. .. Spirochetes were seen on microscopic examination of the culture medium, which initially led us to believe that we had for the first time at our center successfully cultivated B. burgdorferi from synovial fluid."

[Keep in mind Dattwyler once admitted his lab and that of one of the other idiots was not a good lab- quality control isues, etc- so go figure.]

"However, the visualized spirochetes were non-motile and appeared to be enmeshed in a matrix (chemically undefined); in addition, they could not be sub-cultured."

"It was concluded that the spirochetes observed in our patient were in fact dead but well preserved morphologically in a manner somewhat analogous to organisms in amber."

"The amber hypothesis of Lyme arthritis posits that non-viable spirochetes or spirochetal debris become enmeshed in a chemically undefined matrix that dislodges into the joint space.

This hypothesis can account for:

1. delayed onset relative to acquisition of infection.

2. spontaneous recovery and recurrences without antibiotic therapy.

3. absence of positive synovial fluid cultures.

4. absence of evidence of viable spirochetes by other test methods.

5. imbalance of plasmid DNA of B. burgdorferi compared with chromosomal DNA in synovial fluid.

6. eventual resolution of an episode of synovitis after treatment with antibiotics but with the potential for development of recurrent synovitis in the same joint or in a different joint in a small minority of patients.


"Available evidence suggests that Lyme arthritis is not caused by active infection within the joint space per se, in contrast to the experience with most other causes of bacterial arthritis.

In what may be termed the amber hypothesis of Lyme arthritis, we propose that through hematogenous dissemination, B. burgdorferi infects anatomic structures in close proximity to the joint space such as, for example, the joint capsule.

Over time, non-viable spirochetes or more likely spirochetal debris becomes enmeshed in a host- derived fibrinous or collagenous matrix.

This material may then enter the joint space where eventually spirochetal material is released that causes joint inflammation, analogous to what has been observed in experimental animal systems. ...

The well-established efficacy of antibiotic therapy is probably due to the eradication of viable spirochetes from the sites in the joint that were originally seeded and thereby prevent or substantively reduce future entry of non-viable but inflammatory spirochetal material into the joint space."

THE MAIN POINT OF THIS GARBAGE- THEY SAY... "If the amber hypothesis is correct, many patients with Lyme arthritis are being overtreated with antibiotics."

Can't they give it up? How insane is it to continue with this ABLS garbage? (ABLS- Anything But Lyme Syndrome)

Here is the abstract for those wanting to see more about the magical amber theory.

````````````````````````````````````````````

Clin Rheumatol. 2012 Mar 13. [Epub ahead of print]
The amber theory of Lyme arthritis: initial description and clinical implications.
Wormser GP, Nadelman RB, Schwartz I.

Division of Infectious Diseases of the Department of Medicine, New York Medical College, Munger Pavilion, Room 245, Valhalla, NY, 10595, USA, [email protected]

Abstract

Lyme arthritis differs in many respects from other bacterial causes of arthritis. Based on an observation made for a patient with Lyme arthritis, we propose that the pathogenesis of joint swelling in Lyme arthritis is due to the introduction into the joint space of non-viable spirochetes or more likely spirochetal debris enmeshed in a host-derived fibrinous or collagenous matrix.

This "amber" hypothesis can account for the clinical and laboratory features of Lyme arthritis and is amenable to experimental validation. Validation would directly impact the clinical management of patients with Lyme arthritis.

--------------------
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aperture
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Isn't that what the mosquito in Jurassic Park was wrapped in?

He must have watched the movie with his grandkids when he got that bright idea [Wink]

--------------------
aperture

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Tincup
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Or his great grandkids! How long is one old fossil able to remain active?

[lol]

You know... MAYBE it is the worm casings and worm debris Wormser is seeing?

[lol]

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Tincup
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Oh...

And shouldn't the idiots be at the table writing new guidelines so they can share their new magical amber trash theory with everyone?

See what happens when you let OLD guidelines remain on the National Guideline Clearing House when they shouldn't be, with no changes for years on end?

Everyone will miss the new amazing discoveries by Wormser, et al!!!

Who knows? With that new block buster theory, we might just be able to talk the NIH into funding a study for Wormser to develop some amber-busting drugs so we will all be cured.

Hot diggity dawgs!

[Big Grin]

--------------------
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Silverwolf
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Hmmmm,

Oh I see, and so Worm-slime will make a jump, and go on to suggest that the many of us who have brain fog,

have little amber slugedies sticking together encasing our brains...

Oh darn... I like silver better..it's so purty

Jus'Silverwolfi snarkin'... snark... snark...

--------------------
2006,May-August2006 Dx w/ Lyme/Bartonella/White Matter Lesion Disease on Brain.
[ Clinical Dx w/ two positives and several IND's on the tests from Igenex ], Prior Dx of CFIDS/CEBV 1992, and FMS '93-'94
Diabetes*2 Dx 10/'08

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Tincup
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HA! Funny one you are!

And maybe this tread will continue with our other symptoms? For example...

Maybe one of the idiots will find that our muscle pain is caused by ruby encased spirochete's tongues and feet?

And our ear pain and loss of hearing is caused by dead spirochetes cloaked in shimmering sapphire outerwear fitting only for the most prestigious and honored slime?

Yes, let's contact the CDC immediately! I think they are on to something!

[lol]

--------------------
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Tincup
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Someone shared this with me. Thought it might fit the IDSA idiots we have to deal with?

Study Finds That Having Power Can Make You Stupid

http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2012/03/06/study-finds-that-having-power-can-make-you-stupid/

[lol]

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cht girl
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Sure seems strange that 10 months of IV antibiotics have resolved my 5 year old "post-lyme sydrome" masquerading as ALS, abnormal EMGs and all...........
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aperture
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cht grl, your response to IV's was just a fluke, mere coincidence. The saline used to flush the IV must have had some amber-busting quality that the CDC hasn't figured out yet [Wink]

--------------------
aperture

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Scrappy
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aperture,

I, too, thought of the Jurassic Park mosquito thing.

Obviously, these folks have concluded that our memory is completely gone and that we are hella gullible.

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aperture
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quote:
Originally posted by Tincup:
... How long is one old fossil able to remain active?


I read a study somewhere, I'll have to find the actual data, that shows fossils can remain active as long as they can keep cashing checks. [Wink]

--------------------
aperture

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Tincup
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hehehehehehe

[lol]

Ap said... "...fossils can remain active as long as they can keep cashing checks."

TOO funny! I'll add....

Or as long as WE can keeping writing checks that will benefit the fossils."

[Big Grin]

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aperture
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[Big Grin]

--------------------
aperture

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Troup Brazelton
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Look for Wormser to receive a grant to study amber busting techniques. Maybe a big pharm will give him a million to waste their money.
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Silverwolf
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<<<<< Tincup and everybody >>>>>,

Thanks for the smiles...

Hmm, We are not in Kansas anymore says Dorothy...

Now were them Ruby Slippers really footwear, or were they : 'Spirochete's tongues and feet encased in Ruby'.

Oh my, Oh Hor'sy'deorvies and Canoapies ...and them movie slippers are in a museum...yipes!

Honored and deserving slime 'cloaked in shimmering sapphire' you say?

What no silver? It must have to many medicinal properties... [Big Grin] [bonk]

Sadly, T'Brazelton is most likely right, Worm-fossil will get some huge grant from big pharma'

to waste a few million studying amber busting techniques. Arrgh!!

Jus' Silverwolfi

--------------------
2006,May-August2006 Dx w/ Lyme/Bartonella/White Matter Lesion Disease on Brain.
[ Clinical Dx w/ two positives and several IND's on the tests from Igenex ], Prior Dx of CFIDS/CEBV 1992, and FMS '93-'94
Diabetes*2 Dx 10/'08

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hammond
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Dr. Wormser Amberdork writes

"However, the visualized spirochetes were non-motile and appeared to be enmeshed in a matrix (chemically undefined); in addition, they could not be sub-cultured."

He then continues .......

"It was concluded that the spirochetes observed in our patient were in fact dead but well preserved morphologically in a manner somewhat analogous to organisms in amber."

O.K. this is truelly stunning. A lack of a successful Bb culture is evidence that this "amber" theory is true!?!?!?!?!

A lack of a successful culture is evidence that the Bb was dead, right?

Whaaaaaaaaat!!!!!!??????

Willy Bergdorferi himself had a very, very veeeeery hard time culturing Bb outside of a host. Bb do not produce amino acids and have to be bathed in a highly specialized medium.

On top of that, Bb have a unique adaptation that helps it evade the host's immune system. Namely that they can slow down their metabolism to near "dead" status and hide out in nutrient poor regions of the body where no blood exists (and hence no host immune attacking cells).

I 'm sure Dr. Amberdork tried really, reeeeeeaaaaaaally hard to culture his "amber" Bb.

What a joke.

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Tincup
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Hey Silver... was saving the "silver" for you!

And all of you at least make me laugh! Dr. Amberdork! HA! I like that!

[Big Grin]

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TerryK
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So they are trapped in biofilm. Duh! Our LLMD's have been saying that for awhile.

So the debri makes ppl sick. Duh!!! Our LLMD's have been saying that for awhile AND they've been treating that aspect for years.

Our LLMD's are wayyyyy ahead of these guys + they read and believe the evidence - bb is hard to kill.

So frustrating that they propose all of these "new" observations when our doctors have known about these issues for many years.

Luckily our doctors ARE smart and continue to treat us appropriately with bug killing agents. SOME DAY maybe these brainiacs will "discover" that bb is hard to kill.

Totally disgusted.

Terry

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marypart
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Does anybody have a link for this article? I can't find it.

I actually see something positive in this study-- they finally recognize that the spirochete is in the joint and that it is somehow related to the ongoing inflammation.

Yeah, WE already knew that, but our best hope is that THEY will start to know it.

What I hope they realize is that we need EARLY and aggressive treatment of the BITE or any SUSPECTED Lyme before the spirochete spreads.

--------------------
Son, 26, Dx Lyme 4/10, Babs 8/10
Had serious arthritis, all gone.
Currently on Valtrex
Daughter, 26,bullseye 7/11
arthritis in knees, cured and off all meds. .
Self:Lyme, bart, sxs gone, no longer treating.

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marypart
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Found the abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22411576

I'm trying to find some hope in the incremental progress from both camps.

The news about the new drug for Chronic Lyme by ViralGenetics is another ray of hope.

--------------------
Son, 26, Dx Lyme 4/10, Babs 8/10
Had serious arthritis, all gone.
Currently on Valtrex
Daughter, 26,bullseye 7/11
arthritis in knees, cured and off all meds. .
Self:Lyme, bart, sxs gone, no longer treating.

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tickbitt
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"However, the visualized spirochetes were non-motile and appeared to be enmeshed in a matrix (chemically undefined); in addition, they could not be sub-cultured."


He's defined 'chemically undefined' as 'amber'. If one calls it 'biofilm' instead then he's almost made it to the 21'st century.

Next he'll discover that the 'dead' spirochetes can, miraculously, come back to life and they'll know what we've all known for a couple of decades.

As sad as this situation is, I truly hope they come to this understanding soon. They help control millions of dollars worth of research that could help us all get well. And if they can lick biofilms they may be able to 'solve' many other diseases like MS, ALS, fibromyalgia - the usual list.

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Tincup
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Not to burst anyone's bubble, but these toads will NEVER "come around". Never.

And....

They already KNOW this stuff we've been promoting and they know we are right.

Yes, I use to think they were just plain old stupid too. But now I know they absolutely 100% know they are wrong and are still fighting us.

They have fought hard to be the masters of the universe since day one- about 40 years ago- and ever since.

The ONLY reason they would put something like this in print is for their own benefit. Period.

I am saying this so no one gets their hopes up and gets crushed thinking they will do the right thing, especially on a voluntary basis.

And so folks don't sit around and wait for them to do something right or something positive. It ain't going to happen.

We are dealing not with stupidity in the true sense... we are dealing with pure evil and a lot of it.

Here is an article written ... my guess, ten years ago or more?... that provides some of the early history and answers some of the "why" questions most patients have.

https://sites.google.com/site/marylandlyme/afterthebite-articles/camp-a-camp-b

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Tincup
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BTW- Recently I saw someone's old medical records and read a report written in the 1980's that diagnosed the patient with "CHRONIC Lyme disease".

It was written by an infectious disease doctor.

They DO know better.

--------------------
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David95928
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Maybe they are trying to "walk-back" from the cliff. The article sounds ludicrous but could be serving that purpose.

--------------------
Dave

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