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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Upper Abdominal Pain: Liver Stones? Gallstones? Pancreatitis?

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Author Topic: Upper Abdominal Pain: Liver Stones? Gallstones? Pancreatitis?
Hambone
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Hi y'all.


I really need some help here.

Since January I have been having some REALLY bad upper abdominal pressure and bloating. It feels like a tight band squeezing my entire liver area and is there 24/7.


If you can try to imagine what it would feel like if you opened your upper abdomen, shoved a bunch of rocks in there from left to right,and closed it back up, that's what it might feel like.


I've had CT scan, ultrasound and endoscopy over the past 2 years ( nothing really recent )and they never find anything. It's been bugging me the entire 7 years I've been sick, but this past January has really gotten worse.

Could this be liver or gallstones?

I will be doing my 4th liver flush tonight, and they do make me feel better mentally and give me a bit of energy, but the flushes haven't touched the pain/pressure feeling in my upper abdomen/liver area.


I am using Milk Thistle, malic acid, apple cider vinegar, Livamend from Body Ecology...nothing is helping.

Eating does not seem to make it worse. It's just always there.


One night it was suggested at CZ that I take some epsome salt and wait a bit, and then take some olive oil. I did that, and shortly after I felt my liver gurgle and my gallbladder squirted and made this HUGE noise...then the pressure feeling went WAY down and i felt so much better. But it's gotten bad again and I haven't been able to make that gurgle/squirt happen again.


Has anybody else experienced this? Any ideas what could be wrong and why it's not being picked up on with tests?


Thanks!

I can't keep living with this pain. It's not excruciating, but it's enough to make you feel like crap everyday and miserable.

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Carol in PA
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Have you considered using castor oil packs?
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Lymetoo
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Have you had an MRI checking for a stone in the bile duct? Usually this will cause diarrhea though... is that a problem you have?

I would NOT rule out candida/yeast as the cause.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Hambone
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol in PA:
Have you considered using castor oil packs?

I did about 10-12 castor oil packs in Jan-Feb and it just helps a little bit for a couple hours.


quote:
Originally posted by Lymetoo:
Have you had an MRI checking for a stone in the bile duct? Usually this will cause diarrhea though... is that a problem you have?

I would NOT rule out candida/yeast as the cause.

No MRI. Seems they are avoiding that like the plague. They tell me it's gas. It's NOT gas. There is no way I would have gas in my liver area 24/7 for 7 years. And if it was gas, that olive oil/epsom salt thing I did wouldn't have made the area gurgle and squirt and then the pressure go down that one time.

No diarrhea or nausea either.

I can't get a doctor to take me seriously about this.


Can you have candida in the liver?

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RZR
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The pain in my liver area was different from yours. Mine hurt in the liver area and went around to my ride side/back area.

Pekana apo-Hepat drops are working like a miracle for me. It took a couple of weeks, but the pain left and has not returned.

I got the basic detox and drainage kit that includes detox for liver, kidneys, and lymphs.

--------------------
Tick bite May 2009
Diagnosed June 2009

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17hens
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Hambone, I'm sorry your liver is not happy. Have you tried the castor oil packs, mini flushes AND bile duct flushes? My daughter would say that when she left the castor oil packs on for 4+ hours, she would feel her liver gurgle and squirt. Hope you find help soon.

--------------------
"My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26

bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10

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Hambone
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quote:
Originally posted by RZR:
Pekana apo-Hepat drops are working like a miracle for me. It took a couple of weeks, but the pain left and has not returned.

I got the basic detox and drainage kit that includes detox for liver, kidneys, and lymphs.

I keep forgetting about Pekana. Gonna try that. Thanks!
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Hambone
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quote:
Originally posted by 17hens:
Hambone, I'm sorry your liver is not happy. Have you tried the castor oil packs, mini flushes AND bile duct flushes? My daughter would say that when she left the castor oil packs on for 4+ hours, she would feel her liver gurgle and squirt. Hope you find help soon.

I've done five liver flushes. Did one last night and feel even worse today. I used some epsom salt this afternoon and the pressure went down for a little bit, but then gradually built up again. Right now I feel like it will pop.

I'll do a nice long caster oil pack tomorrow and see if it helps this time.

I feel like if I can get this liver/gallbladder thing fixed, I will feel close to normal. My head has REALLLLLY cleared up tons and I have a bit more energy. But this darn liver thing is ruining everything. I wonder if the PE-1 just made my detox pathways back up too much, much faster than I could help it along? I think between that and doing MTHFR treatment at the same time, my liver took a beating. It has always bothered me even way before I tried those things, but has really gone over the top out of control since January. Enzymes are ok, though. Higher,but still in middle of range.

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sparkle7
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I don't think there's enough warning about correcting MTHFR in regards to detoxing. That may be part of it. Maybe you could cut back?

I noticed that I got an increase in general pain when I tried the simplified protocol for methylation.

I felt that the Clark style liver flushes were too severe. Planetary Herbal makes a good product called Stone Free. I also like berberine.

This website has alot of good info -
http://www.gallbladderattack.com/index.shtml

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sparkle7
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FYI - bile salts may help.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james63.htm

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MichaelTampa
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Hambone,

I'm confused when you say you've done 4 and now 5 liver flushes, and yet you talk about taking epsom salts and getting squirting like that's a different thing.

There is a thing called a liver/gallbladder flush, I think initially described by Hulda Clark, although Andreas Moritz has a nice book about it these days. It involves taking fresh squeezed grapefruit juice mixed with olive oil at night, with epsom salts carefully timed before this and the next morning. Is THIS what you've done 4-5 times now? If not, given the relief you've described with the epsom salts, you might try this.

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Hambone
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaelTampa:
Hambone,

I'm confused when you say you've done 4 and now 5 liver flushes, and yet you talk about taking epsom salts and getting squirting like that's a different thing.

There is a thing called a liver/gallbladder flush, I think initially described by Hulda Clark, although Andreas Moritz has a nice book about it these days. It involves taking fresh squeezed grapefruit juice mixed with olive oil at night, with epsom salts carefully timed before this and the next morning. Is THIS what you've done 4-5 times now? If not, given the relief you've described with the epsom salts, you might try this.

Those are the liver flushes I've done. I've done 4, don't know why I said 5. I'm prepping for my 5th.

I use Safflower oil because it tastes a zillion times better than olive.

In between flushes, though, I still get a ton of pressure and upper ab bloating. It was suggested to me by someone at CZ to take a tbs of Epsom, wait a bit, then take a tbs of oil...a kind of baby flush if you will. Nowhere near as drastic as a regular flush. That one time I did a mini flush, my liver started gurgling and my gallbladder squirted ( my husband could hear it and laughed ), and the pressure went down. But I haven't been able to make it do that again quite like that. I slept so good that night after it did that. I could tell it released a buttload of toxins because I felt cleaner.

But now I'm back to being bloated and in pain again. Feels like my "bathtub drain" to my liver is stuck. [bonk]

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linky123
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Apo-Hepat and castor oil packs help me. The castor oil packs work pretty fast. The Apo-Hepat took a little longer.

Take care.

--------------------
'Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.' Matthew 11:28

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MichaelTampa
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I see.

If you are gaining relief for a few days from these flushes, it may just be that you need to keep at it for a while. Are you seeing stones released? If so, that would be more confirmation you're making progress.

Andreas Moritz, in his book on the topic, writes that the flushes only get so much for each flush, and you get relief, then stones move through the gallbladder and block up the ducts again, and you can feel just as crappy again. How confident are you that your oil substitution is adequate? I imagine there's a good reason that olive oil is recommended for this, but I don't know for sure.

There are some other herbs that can help clear things out and/or prepare for the flush. "Chinese bitters" is one of them that I can remember. I'm out of town for a few days so don't have the book on hand with me.

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sparkle7
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You can get the "squirty thing" when you do a coffee enema, too.

FYI-
http://www.optimalhealthnetwork.com/Coffee-Enemas-s/538.htm

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Hambone
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaelTampa:
Are you seeing stones released? If so, that would be more confirmation you're making progress.


How confident are you that your oil substitution is adequate? I imagine there's a good reason that olive oil is recommended for this, but I don't know for sure.


Yes, had about 20 stones the size of peas the 1st time, not many at all the 2nd and 3rd time, and my 4th ( first time with safflower oil ) was the best! I was able to drink more oil and faster. I never get those big dark green ones. Mine either look like pea-grean berries or like tan chopped up nuts even when I haven't eaten any.

There was a list of oils you can substitute at CZ. Almond, safflower, sunflower were suggested, as long as they are the kinds of oils the body needs a lot of bile to emulsify. I just couldn't do olive oil anymore. I got dry heaves just looking at the bottle. But safflower was tasteless and worked just fine.

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terv
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Have you had a hida scan? If not that would be my next step.
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17hens
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I think manybites idea about the liver flukes might be right on. I've had tons come out after coffee enemas and always feel so much better.

DD did castor oil pack in the evening, mini flush in the morning followed by a coffee enema. And of course the bile duct flush every 3 weeks.

In my notes I have "Ivermectin and Pyrantel Pamoate for roundworms and flukes". Maybe worth trying to kill them and flush them out.

--------------------
"My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26

bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10

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Hambone
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I've done Albendazole, Pyrantel Pamoate, Humaworm, Parastroy, Grandma's Herbs brand for parasites, NOW brand tincture,Enula, and Deseret Biologicals/parasite drops. All in all been doing some kind of parasite something for close to a year...and it has been during this year that my liver/gall has gotten worse.

Probably a combination of all that, plus MTHFR and PE-1 treatment.


It feels a little less puffy and painful today. It's tolerable today. Still feels "pressury" and full, but I'm not in agony...today. Knock on wood.


Terv ~ Hida will be the next thing I insist on if this gets very bad again. But I feel like it's my liver just as much as it is my gall.


I was unable to get Ivermectin through a doctor. Do y'all think the vet meds is the way to go? I worry that my liver is already too toxic, though, to handle that.


Thanks for all the advice!!!!

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