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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Cats Claw

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Author Topic: Cats Claw
Beagle
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Does anyone know if a small amount of Cats Claw - just 100 mg can cause a Herx? Started Gi-Revive for stomach which has 100 mg Cats Claw and can't figure out if I'm sicker from that or from stopping Mepron.

On my own til I find another Doctor. Mine has not been aggressive enough with treatment (she's not an LLMD) and is now on vacation. If the Cats Claw can cause a Herx then I won't worry too much about stopping the Mepron for Babs.

Thanks as always for any help,

Beagle

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Jane2904
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Daughter had a herx on one drop of Samento.

Hope you can figure it out and feel better.

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Keebler
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What kind are you using: TOA-free or the original with nothing removed?

Yep. One drop of Samento can do. One capsule of that, too.

I've never had that reaction from real cat's claw though. Possibly, because the very thing that the TOA-free kind (such as Samento) takes out is what helps calm nerve fibers.
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Beagle
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Keebler, it's an ingredient in GI Revive (for leaky gut due to years of treating tick infections? It just says "Cat's Claw (Uncaria tomentosa)(Bark)" .....does that tell anything?

Thanks again,

Beagle

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Keebler
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You might post the link and ingredient list.

I could not easily find that but you have the bottle with the manufacturer's name. Find their site and, hopefully, a link to the ingredient list.

My guess is that it may contain L-glutamine (as do some "leaky gut" supplements). If so, THAT is where I'd put my money for any reaction.

If it does contain L-glutamine, Glutamine - or glutamic acid - I have links for several authors who explain why that is NOT a good thing for those with neurological conditions that involve neruo-excito-toxic aspects.

If so, MAGNESIUM is the best balance to excessive glutamine. Fish Oil should help, too.

The ingredient list & amounts of each will help to sort it out.
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Keebler
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Sometimes, I can't put down a puzzle. Is this it?
-------------------

http://www.rockwellnutrition.com/GI-Revive-by-Designs-For-Health-DFH_p_1006.html?utm_source=GMC&utm_medium=Feeds&utm_campaign=Trinity#tablist

Rockwell Nutrition website

GI Revive by Designs For Health (DFH)

POWDER Serving Size: 1 teaspoon (7.5 grams)

L-Glutamine.......1500 mg

N-Acetyl Glucosamine.......1000 mg

Citrus Pectin.......1000 mg
Deglycyrrhizinated Licorice (DGL- Glycyrrhiza glabra).......400 mg

Aloe Vera (Leaf Extract 200:1).......300 mg
Slippery Elm (bark) (Ulmus pulmila).......200 mg

Mucin.......200 mg
Marshmallow (root) (Althea officinalis).......100 mg

Chamomile (Matricaria chamomilla).......100 mg
Okra (pod (Hibiscus esculentus).......100 mg

Cat's Claw (TOA free (bark) (Uncaria tomentosa).......100 mg
Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM).......100 mg

Quercetin.......100 mg
Prunus (Concentrate).......100 mg

PepZin GI (Zinc-Carnosine).......75 mg

Capsule list is below this at the link above. Same amounts per dose.
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Keebler
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http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/113775?#000000

Topic: Amino Acid Information Link
--------

Caution: Aspartate; Glutamine; and Phenylalanine

Each of these can cause far too much nervous system and adrenal system stimulation for many who deal with lyme.
-------------

This information is especially for those with any degree of:

toxicity, exhaustion, anxiety, irritability, agitation, panic attacks, tremors, startles, or seizures:

it is best to avoid these three particular amino acids (other than in normal doses from food or maybe in a balanced formula with other amino acids & other nutrients, but not above the average daily dose.

Even at that, some people need to avoid excess foods that contain one or both of those as they can be too stimulating for the brain when it's already overstimulated from neuro-toxicity issues.

=========================================

http://www.itmonline.org/arts/glutamine.htm

AMINO ACID SUPPLEMENTS I: GLUTAMINE

with Reference to the Related Compound Glutamate
by Subhuti Dharmananda, Ph.D.

[Just beyond half-way down, see the section:]

Excerpts:

. . . GLUTAMATE IN NEUROLOGICAL DISEASES . . .

. . . In some neurological diseases, it is found that glutamate levels in the central nervous system become unusually high at sites of pathology.

This can occur, for example, if the rate of degradation of glutamate is slowed by an impairment of the enzymes that are involved.

Also, glutamate is excreted by immune cells that take part in inflammatory processes; the result is high local concentrations at the neurons in progressive neurological diseases such as MS and ALS. . . .

. . . The excess glutamate at the neuron acts as a poison; at high enough levels, the nerves exposed to glutamate can be completely and permanently damaged, so that they are no longer capable of transmitting signals.

Thus, while glutamate is a major component of the body, and an essential part of the nervous system, high levels localized in the nerve cells can be quite toxic . . . .

. . . Laboratory research has revealed that in the progressive, debilitating disease ALS, one of the many processes involved in disease progression appears to be damage of nerve cells by accumulation of glutamate.

In relation to multiple sclerosis, changes in control of glutamate homeostasis in the central nervous system might contribute to demyelination of the white matter of the brain (19).

[poster's interjection: lyme also causes demyelination, what that is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demyelinating_disease ] - article continues:

Based on preliminary animal studies, it has been suggested that glutamate dumped by immune cells can exacerbate the nerve damage (20). . . .

. . . The role of glutamate in neurological disorders has raised the question as to whether persons with such neurological diseases might have to be careful

not to get high levels of either glutamine or glutamate via their diet and/or by taking glutamine supplements. . . .

. . . full article at link above.

==================================================

http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/epilepsy.htm

EPILEPSY AND SEIZURES - by Lawrence Wilson, MD

Excerpt:

[section] DIETARY ASPECTS OF EPILEPSY

Food reactions can trigger epileptic seizures. The main culprits are the following foods that are rich in glutamate and aspartate, two very excitatory amino acids:

------ See list at link above -------

. . . and the entire article as it may not seem like it by the title as not all lyme patients experience seizures.

However, the content relates very much so to the neuro-excitatory problems seen so very often in lyme disease & heavy metal toxicity.

---------------------------------

Terry Wahls, MD also discusses problem of excess glutamate / glutamic acid in those with MS or other diseases that are caused by or contribute to neuro-excitatory problems.
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Keebler
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Not sure if memory serves correctly - and I will check but need to first rest a bit.

I think the author of the article "The Biochemistry of Lyme" a few years back in The Townsend Letter periodical stated that

N-Acetyl Glucosamine is not good for those with lyme.

I will check on that and come back.

===================

Bottom line about your original question:

Cat's Claw? That is the real deal or it would have said so. In that amount, I do not think it would cause any adverse effect.

I think it could be the L-Glutamine.
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Keebler
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From the Townsend Letter, February/March 2006

http://www.townsendletter.com/FebMar2006/lyme0206.htm

BIOCHEMISTRY OF LYME DISEASE: Borrelia burgdorferi Spirochete/Cyst

- by Prof. Robert W. Bradford and Henry W. Allen

Excerpt:

. . . If the arthritis is Lyme-induced, N-acetylglucosamine is contraindicated. . . .

- Full article at link above.

You may want to discuss this with your LLMD.

I have to note, though, that I do not agree with the use of Bismuth as described in this article. It has helped some, but it can pose great risk and has even been linked with fatality.

Of course, lyme is just so very complex and so are the treatment approaches. There is so much of value in this article for thought and discussion with your LLMD.

==============================================

That article is hard to read, due to spacing and the complexity of thought. I don't recall where in the article that excerpt appears but this cross search of various terms through Google did locate the sentence that I had noted before:

Biochemistry, Lyme, Bradford, N-acetylglucosamine
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Beagle
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Keeble,

Thanks so much for all your hard work researching to help me! You have no idea how much I appreciate it. I feel lost with all these issues and no real medical help. This Doctor did help me alot when she started me on Mepron last Fall.

But since then, she is not very helpful. Anyway I have not even checked thru your links yet but wanted to thank you right away and now will read the link. BTW, yeah, this stuff has 1500 mg
L- Gltamine adnd 1000 mg of N- Acetyl Glucosamine
Doc had me buy it from her office for $54.00 plus shipping.

Beagle
Ty, ty, ty!

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Beagle
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Keebler,

OMG! You are a lifesaver. See my Doc is NOT an LLMD. I had to stop seeing the real LLMD due to cost and also could not get there.

Beagle

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Keebler
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Be aware that some LLMDs DO use L-Glutamine for "Leaky Gut" -- and it seems more effective for the gut than the other things -- but for anyone who experiences a "herx" from it, it's just important to consider all the authors above regarding the neuro overload.

A VERY tiny dose may work okay for you, along with other things.

Or - you should be able to return that and get your money back for that from the doctor.

I felt bad that I did not then tell you WHAT ELSE could help your stomach.

I was just too tired. Still am to do this properly but will post some notes from my files.

If this did not have the NAG (my abreviation for N-acetyl Glucosamine) in it, too, you could used just a very tiny amount and see if you could tolerate that.

If it's too much, MAGNESIUM can help balance the effect of L-Glutamine's exciting reaction.

I don't know enough about why that "Biochemistry of Lyme article" says NAG is not good for lyme.

It's always good to read what others have to see. You might check the citations posted for that quote, to see where he got his information.

I can't go through the details but here what else to try:

I assume your doctor has assessed you for CELIAC?

If not, they are not doing their job, at all. Celiac is the first thing to consider with GI problems.

Also suspect: Dairy; Corn; Soy; ADDITIVES

I really have to stop, shorthand to close . . .

DGL, Slippery Elm, Marshmallow root - all good.

www.celiac.com and www.celiacsolutions.com
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[ 05-18-2012, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Keebler
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You probably are clear of additives but, just to be sure:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=029690;p=0

Excitotoxins; MSG; Aspartame; & "Natural" Flavors

-------------------------------------------

http://www.nutraingredients.com/Research/CLA-may-protect-against-celiac-disease-Study?nocount

CLA may protect against celiac disease: Study

Supplementation with CLA may be beneficial in fighting oxidative stress associated with celiac disease, according to new research in mice.

CONJUGATED LINOLEIC ACID

. . . gluten . . . down regulates crucial intestinal defences. . . . CLA was found to block the suppression of these intestinal defences . . . .
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Keebler
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http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/115258?

ASTAXANTHIN - collection of links

-----------------------------

HAVE YOU BEEN ASSESSED FOR h.Pylori ?

If that is positive, there is a combined antibiotic protocol with bismuth that has been quiet effective for many.

I can't go into detail about that but here's another quick note for something that may help along with proper medical treatment:

----------

www.anyvitamins.com/astaxanthin-gastric-health.htm

Astaxanthin and gastric health

. . . We look at various ways in which astaxanthin helps with Helicobacter pylori and other stomach problems. . . .
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Keebler
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Regarding gut issues: Parasites; Digestive Enzymes; Heavy Metals.

For parasites, one poster with lots of information is Gael - glm111 - to search her posts.

GiGi also may some detail about parasites (I can't recall), but important is her detail about HEAYY METALS (which can also clobber the gut).

For enzymes, Carol in PA has many excellent posts. One formulation, WOBENZYME, is a good place to begin for a search here and on the internet.

For web searches, you can take any term or topic and cross search with Borrelia, Babsesia, Brucellosis, Bartonella, etc.

A fabulous site to actually start with lyme "complex" searches is:

www.betterhealthguy.com

The Better Health Guy

---------------

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/ubb/search/search_forum/1

To search past threads or threads by particular posters.
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