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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » What symptoms can bartonella in the brain cause?

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Author Topic: What symptoms can bartonella in the brain cause?
Maya12
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I am wondering this and also if it can ever be eradicated and how?
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tickbitt
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Speaking from experience, it can cause all sorts of issues that will land you in the psychiatrists office, including:

Emotional disorders (particularly anger, rage)
Cognitive disorders (can't think clearly)
Memory loss (especially short-term)
Psychotic disorders
Visual processing problems

It can produce symptoms similar to schizophrenia.

It CAN be eradicated.

If you have severe neuro bart you need to find an LLMD. Get the neurological load down with a macrolide and either rifampin or levaquin. Check for coinfections, and treat for biofilms and parasites.

I know somone clinically diagnosed with three disorders who was fully cured with a bottle of zith, though it's usually not quite that easy.

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Maya12
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Hey tickbitt thanks for that help, I am currently on doxy and biaxin and I spoke to my llmd today and we will be starting recfinpin in about 2 months , I really need to get the Bart down.

Is biaxin a macrocode (sp)

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Maya12
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Macrolid I mean
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lymeboy
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Last Time I took Cipro, the Horrible neuro symptoms just kind of waned. I was taking it alone. This time I take it with a Macrolide, Tindamax, Japanese Knotweed and Interfase Plus for Biofulms.

It has been pretty heavy duty. I am getting impatient for the herxing to stop. It seems to be for a half / day, every day. But I really have hope that this is gonna kill that [email protected] Bart dead.

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canefan17
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tickbitt

Why is macrolide recommended for neuro Bart?
Good CNS penetration?

What about minocycline?

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TF
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I got rid of bart by taking Levaquin followed by many months of Bactrim DS.

My brain is normal. It's been 7 years and no recurrence of any tick-borne diseases.

The only herb I took was artemesinin with the Bactrim to kill babesiosis. And, I took a few supplements.

As I like to tell people, the Burrascano protocol is what got me well. It is a 4-pronged approach: antibiotics, diet, supplements, and exercise.

All 4 are needed. The exercise is 1 hour of weight lifting every other day. A full body workout each time. Do not ignore the exercise requirement. It is a requirement if you want to get rid of these diseases and stay rid of them.

Read in Burrascano everything that this particular type of exercise is believed to do for the patient--boost the immune system, allow greater penetration of the meds, assist in killing the germs through heating up the body, etc. etc. etc.

The exercise did as much for me as the meds. I started the weight lifting again last year after using a steroid nasal spray that evidently weakened my immune system. I was catching every illness that came along.

Once I started the weight lifting, all the illnesses stopped. So, I have proven twice how valuable the weight lifting is for boosting the immune system.

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canefan17
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TF

I forgot you took levaquin. What did your doc combine with it. .

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TF
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I was on flagyl for lyme and on levaquin for bart.

Just those 2 together.

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canefan17
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That's interesting too. I didn't realize flagyl was used for L-form or spirochete form Borrelia.

Was this the Doc you used before finding Dr S?

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TF
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This was when I was with Dr. S. He had me on amoxi and flagyl to kill 2 forms of lyme. Then, a month just on flagyl to finish up lyme and he put me on Levaquin to start on bart.

Flagyl was to kill lyme in cyst form.

You have hijacked this thread.

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Maya12
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lol no worries i still like all the feedback and infohey tf did you have bad bart and did the bart treatment make you feel much better?

my llmd has me on 400mg of doxy a day and she says that the doxy can mildly hit the bart and could be making me feel worse, i never knew doxy hit bart a bit , i really want to start on full bart treatment though.

even though i know it will be rough at first i really think my main prob is the bart , it is driving me insane

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Maya12
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lol no worries i still like all the feedback and infohey tf did you have bad bart and did the bart treatment make you feel much better?

my llmd has me on 400mg of doxy a day and she says that the doxy can mildly hit the bart and could be making me feel worse, i never knew doxy hit bart a bit , i really want to start on full bart treatment though.

even though i know it will be rough at first i really think my main prob is the bart , it is driving me insane

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Maya12
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hey tf i know exercise is very important and have been trying but do you have a full body work out that you recommend?

like what exercises did you do , how many sets and reps and how did you get a full body work out , i am actually an rmt and know a lot of strengthening exersices but was wondering what you did?

did you get a set of hand weights and velcrow weights for your legs?

did you follow an exercise video?

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canefan17
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I hijacked the thread? lol comical
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Maya12
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so if bart is really hard to treat , why would my llmd have me on doxy and biaxin right now but no rifanpin or levaquin?

i am not sure why these two drugs but no bart killer.

can anyone explain this?

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Larae30
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Maybe your llmd is starting you slow?

--------------------
Treating lyme, bart and babs

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Maya12
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what do these two abx do for bart , do they just slow the growth down , or do they hit bart at all?
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Maya12
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i am so confused
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TF
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It sounds like your doctor has decided to treat your lyme first.

That's what my doc did. But, after treating the lyme for a month, he then went on to treat both lyme and bart. (I had had 2 years of lyme treatment prior to this, so that's why his lyme treatment was short.)

Of course, I was handling everything OK. Your posts don't sound like you are. So, the doc doesn't want to kill the patient.

When a person has these kinds of concerns, they have to figure out if they have evidence that their doctor doesn't know how to treat bart, or if they are just worried and anxious to get ahead of the doctor.

You may be able to come up with a tactful way of asking what your doctor's plans are, such as, "Do you usually prescribe levaquin or rifampin to go after bart, or what is your typical bart protocol? (Get answer.) Can you tell me your plans for when you intend to treat me this way? (Get answer.) I feel that bartonella is the coinfection causing my major problems, so I am kind of anxious to hit it hard. Do you agree that bart is behind some of my most troublesome symptoms? (Get answer)"

Regarding the exercise I did, we had a simple weight bench in our basement. I did bench presses, leg lifts, crunches, also free hand weights, and other arm and back exercises. We rigged up a pulley and I pulled down on the weights for an additional arm exercise.

I did some back and leg exercises that included standing against a wall and bending at the knees, then holding that position.

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Maya12
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well i know my llmd has mentioned that we will be treating bart next with rifanpin, i did actually tell her yesterday that i thought the bart was causing me huge probs right now and she said that once i finish the doxy at the end of july we can talk about switching , i just don't know what to do as i am already having huge trouble tolerating the abx i am on currently.
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debilyn
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My LLMD says Doxy hits Bart, so he added it to my Biaxin, Ceftin, and pulsed Tindamax.

He said Levaquin hits it harder but has a higher chance for permanent tendon injury, that we'd try the Doxy for a month to see how it hits the Bart.

I tested negative for co-infections, but I have rashes on my arms that doc says are Bart.

I am confused too about Bart, just trying to read about it as much as I can when my eyes and brain work.

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Maya12
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hey debilyn is your doc trying you on bart to see if you herx and get worse or to see if you feeel better?
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tickbitt
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One problem is that 'bart' is not a single species that responds consistently to the same medication.

I know someone who was mentally ill for 3+ years, actively under a psychiatrists care, and under a suicide watch. His bart was stopped cold with a month of zith. He was very lucky.

I personally treated with high doses of doxy for lyme, bart, and a couple of other things. 400 to 600 mg/day, self prescribed. At first 200/day kept the bart more-or-less under control. Every month or so, though, it took another 100 - 200/day to keep it under control. I found an LLNP to prescribe cipro, and the mental fog cleared up pretty quickly.

To whoever asked: yes, biaxin (clarithromycin) is a macrolide like zith.

The macrolides are effective against some strains of bart. Tetracyclines may be effective against some kinds, and it slows down others. Rifampin and the cipro family, however, are far more effective.

Debilyn; LLMD's opinions vary when it comes to cipro/levaquin. Tendonitis is the primary side effect requiring it be stopped. I've read stories that it can cause problems even after you stop taking it. That said, most people tolerate it pretty well.

Maya12: Virtually everyone has different reactions to different meds. I can take doxy like there's no tomorrow, but half a pill gives some people severe gastro discomfort. OTOH, I can't take zith - it makes me dizzy, spacey, disoriented. And coming off it really really sucks because it's got a 7-10 day half life. IOW, it can be a whole month before it's down to 1/8 of what it was. I can tolerate biaxin, though, so that's my macrolide of choice.

What I'm trying to say is that you might have a hard time with doxy or zith but be fine with cipro or rifampin. Watch the herx though - ramp up on the med. Bart herxes can be really awful. When I went doubled the dose of cipro and biaxin I wasn't fit to be around man nor beast for most of 3 weeks.

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canefan17
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tickbitt

Any opinion of minocycline?

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TF
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Maya, your doc must have a reason why she wants you to stay on doxy until the end of July. Do you know the reason? Do you have a problem with the reason?

If she switches your meds at the end of July, you could feel totally different from how you feel now. So, don't feel gloom and doom that you won't be able to handle the new protocol.

I couldn't handle Biaxin. It gave me terrible side effects. Anxiety is just one of the Biaxin many side effects.

So, if you stop Biaxin at the end of July, you could feel good just from that. Especially since you say you feel worse than before you started treatment. Biaxin can affect mood and cause depression.

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canefan17
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Is there any literature on Biaxin having the ability to cause depression and affect mood?

It's not a herx?

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Maya12
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hey tickbitt how long had you been treating before you started to nitice bart improvement?
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Maya12
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hey tf i am assuming then that the mental effects from biaxin are not permenant? and will go away once off?

as well i am not sure why she wants me on the doxy still but i think it is to hit other co infections that i may have and also for filarial worms and lyme

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AuntyLynn
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Since there are several strains of Bartonella, can you tell me if it ALWAYS causes a rash?
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Larae30
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I am treating bart and have never had any kind of rash.

--------------------
Treating lyme, bart and babs

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TF
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I was on Biaxin for 5 days and it took about 5 days for those terrible side effects to go away for me.
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AuntyLynn
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OK thanks a lot.

My Mom has lots of neuro symptoms and has never been tested for coinfections!

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Maya12
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Thanks tf for letting me know this and thanks to all that wrote to me I really appreciate it
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tickbitt
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Aunty, there are more like 20 species of bart. There are specific tests for like 3. Your mothers LLMD should be treating based on symptoms, not just lab tests. If she has distinct bart symptoms and can't get treatment for them she needs a new LLMD.

With no evidence at all, I think what we lymies call 'bart' includes something that's not really in the bartonella genus. Dr B refers to them as "BLO's" They can still be treated with cipro, rifampin, and macrolides so it's reasonable to call them bart and treat like they were.

Larea, there are two classic bart rashes, but a rash is no more necessary or consistent than it is for lyme.

Maya12: I always responded well to cipro. The rifampin herxes were pretty bad, but over in a week. With the lower dose of cipro the brain fog and neuro involvement went away pretty quickly, like a week or so. Or at least got better. The last time came from doubling the dose of biaxin and cipro, and for a few weeks "I weren't fit to be around for man nor beast" as the saying goes.

As they say though, everyones reaction is different. Some will do better, many will herx worse or longer. Some will not tolerate the drug - and some of those will think they're herxing. It's really hard sorting all this stuff out.

Canefan: I never took mino for bart, so I don't have any personal experience with it. My guess is that since it penetrates better than doxy and much better than tetracycline that it would be somewhat more effective. But, as part of the tetracycline family, it's really not a good drug to use against bart. Macrolides, fluoroquinilones (cipro), or rifampin are a much better choice, especially the last two.

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canefan17
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Thanks

Just curious - but why are macrolides better for Bart than tetracyclines?

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jackie51
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I'm on mino and biaxin for bart, plus A-bart.

While I never had any psychiatric issues, I definitely feel that my thought processes and social skills have improved. Bart flares definitely cause some major irritability.

I couldn't handle levaquin or rifampin so fortunately this other combo seems to be working.

I definitely feel A-bart has been key to my getting well. Doesnt work for everyone, but it's worth a try at $80 a bottle.

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trubeee
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I initially tolerated Biaxin fine but as time went on I think I got 'toxic' from it and the depression which came on slowly just got worse and worse to the point I was scared to swallow another pill and stopped.

Hope this helps.

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