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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Sense of Time

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Author Topic: Sense of Time
LymeMECFSMCS
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Has anyone else lost their sense of time?

I think for me this is a babesia symptom but I'm not sure. At first, I simply could not see into the future, that is, I couldn't imagine next week any more.

Then I began to feel like every day was about five minutes long. It's still like that, years later. It really feels connected to the ungrounded brain stuff of babesia: loss of self, loss of time, etc. But it's really physiological, I'm not talking about a metaphorical loss of time.

Could it be temporal lobe damage?

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

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BoxerMom
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Oh wow. I've never heard anyone mention this before.

It's so true. I feel like I Rip Van Winkled 20 years of my life, but I can't account for the lost time.

I feel suspended, and I'm confused by the obvious passage of time when I'm confronted with it. Kids growing up is particularly disorienting to me. What? Like I didn't think that would happen?

I attributed the feeling more to isolation and limitations than to the infections themselves. At this point, I would rather hear that it's the Babesia. I hate thinking about everything I've missed out on (kids, career, travel, hobbies, friends - you know - the basics), and questioning my ability to create a life I might actually enjoy.

I'm apathetic about my future and have no ability to envision a full life. I don't plan anything, and it's not because of my health. It's more like I can't see ahead.

Maybe TMI here. I do think Babesia plays a specific role in this.

I have more to say, but I'm exhausted tonight. I hope others will contribute.

--------------------
 - Must...find...BRAIN!!!

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In19944
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I have told people I've been in treatment for 4 months for months now. I started last october.

told people haven't had a drink or a bit of sugar for a few months too, it's been since last summer.

just realized this. not sure if its lack of sense of time or if it's just confusion.

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nonna05
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God does this sound familiar...I got real/obvious sick at 49..and it's like part of me is suspended in time ..Waiting there to get well and get on with LIFE,

Of course nobody and nothing is waiting for me.

I even noticed my pictures in house are from when things were real/doing life , before knocked off my vision and then some

Of course this has a lot to do with several loses besides health in life and I want it back and then some..I hope that I can keep hope and prayer going

When I'm laying here so much I don't even know what day it is,,,and when I'm knocked out , i don't care..
this is sick cause I am such a passionate person

It's all just passing me by....
I must get well and re-new a vision for a productive passionate life that includes triplets and helping ...

Otherwise WHAT???????

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LymeMECFSMCS
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What Boxer said is definitely how it feels, like confusion about the passage of time. I feel like I'm moving in slow motion and everything else is moving in fast motion. I was sick for many years before the TBDs, but this is different, like some kind of SciFi movie of time just warping.

And yes, thinking that many months is a few months. It is just strange, a feeling of animate suspension and not having the brain function to latch onto actual time.

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LymeMECFSMCS
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Ooh! Just found this.


Fortschr Neurol Psychiatr. 1994 Jul;62(7):256-67.

[Time perception in organically healthy and brain damaged subjects].

[Article in German]

Petrovici JN, Scheider G.


Source

Neurologische Klinik des Stdtischen Krankenhauses Kln-Merheim.


Abstract

The aims of this study were to investigate whether brain lesions are associated with an impairment of time judgement and whether there is any relationship between alterations of time experience and the side and localization of brain lesions. References were made to the literature dealing with different definitions of the concept of time and the notions derived from time as a categorial entity, such as time experience, time perception and time awareness. To begin with, the philosophical and psychological approach was considered. There upon definitions as given by the natural sciences, conceptual classifications, phenomenological investigations as well as psychopathological considerations were analysed. Furthermore, the literature on disorders of time judgement was reviewed against the background of alterations of time experience in patients with brain lesions. In the present study patients with definite single brain lesions were examined and compared with a group of normal subjects. Three methods for testing time judgement (method of production, method of reproduction and time estimation) were applied to each subject. The results showed that in a substantial proportion of brain-damaged patients a subjective impression of changes in the rate at which time passed was reported, mostly in form of an apparent slowing down. No difference could be demonstrated between left or right cerebral lesions or between different localizations within one hemisphere. On the testing for objective time judgement the brain-damaged patients showed a tendency to under-or overestimation of time intervals, often exceeding the pre-established normal boundaries by far. We observed a certain "vulnerability" of the right hemisphere on the tasks for time judgement, especially in the case of right-sided parieto-occipital lesions.


PMID: 8076901 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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Catgirl
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Wow. I can relate. I also lost my ability to visualize when I got babs (last bite). It's just gone. I have to try to imagine from memory (difficult).

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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sixgoofykids
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When I was sick, I couldn't even remember what season it was .... like if the kids were getting ready to get out of school or if school had just started. Among many other cognitive issues.

I don't have any ongoing issues.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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LymeMECFSMCS
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Six, do you have a sense of which meds helped you with this symptom?
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sixgoofykids
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Not really. It seems the cognitive stuff just got better slowly as I did.

I did memory work, played word games, worked on facial recognition, did math games, etc., to build my brain back up once I got better.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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jwall
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Ihave this and just tested positive for babesia. I think it's babesia and is related to brain swelling. A lot of things are warped, not just time.
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LymeMECFSMCS
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Jwall, yes I agree a lot of things are warped not just time w/ babs, but wonder if you could describe that more?

I wonder if babs causes brain swelling in a particular area. It seems like the TBDs all have an affinity for particular areas of the body, with a lot of overlap of course.

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Carol in PA
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quote:
Originally posted by LymeCFIDSMCS:

I wonder if babs causes brain swelling in a particular area.


I don't see how that could happen.
Babesia is a protozoan parasite of the blood.

People who contract Babesiosis suffer from malaria-like symptoms.

flu-like symptoms,
irregular fevers,
chills,
headaches,
general lethargy,
pain and malaise.

In severe cases, hemolytic anemia, jaundice, shortness of breath, and hemoglobinuria are documented due to the lytic effects of parasitic multiplication.

The "lytic effects" refer to the red blood cells breaking open.
The spleen filters out broken red cells from the blood, and recycles the iron.

People who have had their spleens removed will be sicker and have a greater chance of dying from Babesia.

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LymeMECFSMCS
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Carol, but don't you think babesia could then have a similar effect to cerebral malaria, which causes brain swelling in some cases, and thus could cause various symptoms depending on where the swelling occurs?

I just looked it up and cerebral malaria also can induce temporal lobe epilepsy -- I'm not sure if that's from edema or from a period of hypoxia effeting the brain -- but it does seem like that could cause this type of symptom.

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Robin123
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Breaking this up for easier reading for many here -

[QUOTE]Originally posted by LymeCFIDSMCS:
[QB] Ooh! Just found this.


Fortschr Neurol Psychiatr. 1994 Jul;62(7):256-67.

[Time perception in organically healthy and brain damaged subjects].

[Article in German]

Petrovici JN, Scheider G.


Source

Neurologische Klinik des Stdtischen Krankenhauses Kln-Merheim.


Abstract

The aims of this study were to investigate whether brain lesions are associated with an impairment of time judgement

and whether there is any relationship between alterations of time experience and the side and localization of brain lesions.

References were made to the literature dealing with different definitions of the concept of time and the notions derived from time as a categorial entity, such as time experience, time perception and time awareness.

To begin with, the philosophical and psychological approach was considered. There upon definitions as given by the natural sciences, conceptual classifications, phenomenological investigations as well as psychopathological considerations were analysed.

Furthermore, the literature on disorders of time judgement was reviewed against the background of alterations of time experience in patients with brain lesions.

In the present study patients with definite single brain lesions were examined and compared with a group of normal subjects.

Three methods for testing time judgement (method of production, method of reproduction and time estimation) were applied to each subject.

The results showed that in a substantial proportion of brain-damaged patients a subjective impression of changes in the rate at which time passed was reported, mostly in form of an apparent slowing down.

No difference could be demonstrated between left or right cerebral lesions or between different localizations within one hemisphere.

On the testing for objective time judgement the brain-damaged patients showed a tendency to under-or overestimation of time intervals, often exceeding the pre-established normal boundaries by far.

We observed a certain "vulnerability" of the right hemisphere on the tasks for time judgement, especially in the case of right-sided parieto-occipital lesions.


PMID: 8076901 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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Robin123
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I notice this - I'll be sitting here at my desk, thinking that not much time has gone by. Maybe it's because we don't process a lot of info, as in we don't process the correct volume of info going on? I don't know.

All I know is suddenly I realize I'm out of time and have to be out of here for some scheduled event, and often end up rushing around to get ready.

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trubeee
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I think it is both due to circumstances (isolation, not partaking in 'life', our worlds have 'shrunk') and this disease/treatment.

I'm doing babs tx right now and both are worse. I wouldn't describe my brain sx like the first poster exactly but I do know that my brain is more swollen, my brain fog much much worse-my LLMD says this is normal and will resolve.

I also know my own emotions have changed, depending on what med I'm on, and any 'challenge' to the brain like puzzles, etc. ends up making me feel exhausted to the point I want to lie down. Our brains tell us when we're ready for what. Just posting on here is exercise for me.

Google: "W-5 CTV Out of the Wild", a TV segment which covered Lyme Disease and one of the gals featured in it says she knows 3 years have gone by bc the seasons changed, and her clothing with it etc. This brave gal is well enough now to make presentations and kick some a-- to politicians.

Weird I know, my brain sx are one of the most distressing, and definitely worse when I am physically soo challenged.

Thanks for listening all.

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LymeMECFSMCS
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For me it doesn't feel like it's about circumstances so much, as my life had already shrunk dramatically form ME/CFS and then from bartonella before I got Lyme and babs.

It's really what someone else said about babs: it has killed my imagination and warped my perceptions on a level that is truly unique. And any puzzle -- like just making a list, or figuring out why I'm in this room -- is so overwhelmingly confusing and my brain just seems to short out.

Along with time it's like all things in the temporal world have changed in importance -- with time speeding up, I can get so little done and it's like I no longer line up with anything outside of me -- I don't feel that sense of connectedness I used to feel (to people, things I cared about, etc.) and it feels all about the brain: like I'll just forget people exist sometimes.

I also found this interesting study (breaking this one up, sorry!):

"In 2007, scientists from France studied a group of individuals that were suffering from left-temporal lobe brain damage.

The study participants then watched a film in which a familiar object appeared on the screen and reappeared a few minutes later [8 minutes later]. The study participants were then told to guess how much time had passed since first seeing the familiar object and seeing it for a second time.

On average, the brain-damaged participants thought 8 minutes was really around 13 minutes. Healthy brain subjects were only off in guessing by roughly only one minute."

From:

http://4mind4life.com/blog/2008/07/23/time-perception-how-the-brain-controls-time/

(the study they refer to is called "role of the medical temporal lobe in time estimation in the range of minutes" from Neuroreport, Noulhiane M et al 2007 Jul 2).

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trubeee
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Oh gotcha-wow that sound scary..interesting study.
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Catgirl
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My glasses used to get tight at times (pre lyme diagnosis). My head was swelling right after my last tick bite. Doc said that was when I got babs.

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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sleeping dog
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i also have confusion related to time and a lack of 'connectedness' to anyone or anything that used to be meaningful to me. as far as time goes, i also have confusion with chronology...uncertain of what happened in what order. this is with minor things and pretty major things as well. i agree that a lot of the confusion is because we are so much less engaged in life and don't have events to look forward to/recall fondly and to use as cues to gage the passage of time. but there is definitely much more to it than that...the time confusion issue is a symptom itself for me. it exists on a small scale (minutes within a day) and also in measuring weeks, days, and years.
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norcal
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Thanks to all for sharing.I continually try to relay what losing your sense of time is like to my friends and family.
Seems like only my lyme family gets it.

The loss of imagination was especially hard for me as I am an artist and have a roving mind and to have that gone from my personna was extremely difficult.

Have no fear friends, it does disappear with treatment.

I think that babs is the main culprit in this presentation because for me it was at its worst during the killing off of babesia.

Now that I have whittled it down to slight lyme symptoms and treatment my head is clear and I have had my sense of self back for over a year!

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lyme in Putnam
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I know with the depersonalization time and regulariness of a day is screwed up. I know. When you r back to yourself the ime and regulariness of a day is normal, when I'm zoned, time is sick. I understand completely.

--------------------
He took u to it, He'll you through

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Roger1700
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Definitely have this problem.... seems years are like months.. would think I'd go crazy laying around everyday not being able to do things, but every day seems like ground hog day..

Time seems to fly by without even noticing it..

Have the "swelling" feeling too, feels like head wants to explode... Have had headache every day for going on 5 years...

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Marnie
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Perception of time...one researcher:

"...he believes that these ***medium spiny neurons*** provide us with an accurate perception of time."

http://4mind4life.com/blog/2008/07/23/time-perception-how-the-brain-controls-time/

The medium spiny neurons are GABAergic neurons and hence have an *inhibitory* influence on the neurons they project to. (Wikipedia)

If years are like months for you, time is going by really fast.

Glutamate is the brain accelerator. GABA is the brain break.

Glutamate is "on".

Neuron damage. Can be repaired in time (no pun intended). The body CAN repair damaged cells.

As we age, we all say, "Where did the time go? It seems like only yesterday..."

To old folks (me), looking BACK, it seems like time went by so fast.

Time slows down when we are really scared. There is a physicist who has done experiments to prove that. He is Michio Kaku.

http://www.brainpickings.org/index.php/2011/03/28/bbc-michio-kaku-time/

Scary thought:

http://www.thejournal.ie/time-slowing-down-physics-dark-energy-universe-spain-492542-Jun2012/

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