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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Is low fat diet the answer? Dr. F thinks so. (Page 2)

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Author Topic: Is low fat diet the answer? Dr. F thinks so.
sparkle7
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There are a huge amount of ideas about diet... We could speculate forever as to which are correct. I've looked into so many from vegan to only eating meat.

I think that the body is pretty adaptable. Everyone has their specific genetics & how it may be effected by pathogens. The concept I follow these days to try to be moderate. I try to stay away from "non-food" items like high fructose corn syrup, hydrogenated fats & GMOs.

It's hard - that stuff is in almost all foods these days. I'd probably go for mostly all organic if it was available & didn't cost an arm & a leg.

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Catgirl
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How is everyone doing? Has anyone who hasn't cut the fat yet tried going low fat or even just cutting down on it, and has it helped you? I appreciate advice from experienced Dr. F followers too.

I have a ton of respect for Dr. F, as does my lyme specialist. Unfortunately, he can't test me for this due to state law prohibiting it, so I have to find someone who can (another state).

So, all things considered, and for the time being, I decided to take Sparkle's (be moderate) and Michael's advice, and just cut the fat.

So for now, I cut down on nuts. I know we aren't supposed to have them (if we have protomyxoa) due to arginine. I used to eat 2 cups a day because I got so thin.

Then 3 mos ago I cut it to 1 cup. And recently, I cut it to 1/4 cup a day. I feel better but I'm not sure if it's because I'm starting to win the war on yeast, or if it's due to decreasing the nuts & protomyxzoa.

But looking at my notes of a few months ago, I felt better within a day of cutting back on the nuts. Not massively better, but noticeably better. Maybe I cut the biofilms in half (hope so)? I wonder if Dr. F has info on this.

I actually feel better when I eat avocados though. I don't know if that means I have the F1953, or not.

Maybe it's about balance? If you cut some fat out and add in more cyst busters (I don't really know).

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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MichaelTampa
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I continue on a low-fat diet. The first week I probably was at about 15 grams a day, and since, I have been eating about 28-30 grams a day, per my pendulum which is pretty consistent from day to day.

I am continuing to see significant improvements against biofilms and lyme and coinfections and better energy.

To get to the 28-30 grams a day, I often have a veggie burger or two, and am adding in 1-4 teaspoons of coconut oil or olive oil, and sometimes some small amount of walnuts or hemp seeds. I'm following the pendulum.

I did get tested for the FL1953 but do not have results yet.

I think the low-fat diet would be important to many here.

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Catgirl
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That's great Michael. It kind of sounds like you have it (FL1953). I think it is so much better to find out rather then guessing.

Are you still herxing from it?

I am trying to eat close to normal for me to see if the test shows it (but did cut down on the nuts). But first I have to find someone to do the test.

I'm hoping, if I do have it, that then my doc will give me some pharmaceutical grade anti parasitics.

Keep in touch and let us know how your test goes. I'm curious to see what your doc puts you on.

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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MichaelTampa
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Forgot to mention, while I had huge herx last year at the beginning when I did it for 6 weeks, nothing of that sort this time around.
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nefferdun
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I am still trying to do the diet. I can't say I am vegan but I am vegetarian. I eat a small amount of cheese, yogurt, goats milk and egg whites. I am doing much better on this diet.

I try to keep my fat to 15 grams but that is hard so I probably average 15 to 20 grams. I think the lower you keep it, the better your results. I started to get some pain back in my knee when wasn't so careful, so I am back on track.

I tested homzygous for the CBS mutation which means animal protein causes me to build up a lot of ammonia in my body. This wrecks havoc everywhere so it is doubly important that I am vegan(ish).

WIth the methyl cycle mutations I have to limit sulfur so I am not supposed to have soy, kale, spinach, onion, garlic etc and with the F diet I have to limit fat and arginine- so no nuts, seeds, avocado, oils. Excitotoxins I am not supposed to eat are mushrooms, peas and tomatoes. I just can't be that strict with myself.

I am much better though - much better!

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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Marnie
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15 grams of fat is, IMO, too low.

Our LDL carries cholesterol to where it is needed.

Like the myelin sheath!

LDL is not bad. It is only when it is OXIDIZED that it is a bad situation.

Re: ammonia...PLEASE read (pay attention to ammonia mentioned):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asparagus

"Arginine is useful in some individuals as a supplement to help treat the

symptoms of hyperammonemia

if they have a block in the proper metabolism or synthesis of arginine in the liver."

http://www.springboard4health.com/notebook/proteins_arginine.html

Hyperammonemia = excess of ammonia in the blood.

Dr. Atkins original diet...low carb, high protein and high fats almost killed a friend of mine who came very close to going into kidney failure.

See Wikipedia - Robert Atkins (nutritionist)

Note he was a physician and cardiologist!

Like the Johns' Hopkins ketogenic diet...way too dangerous if not monitored VERY closely.

These extreme diets are potentially very very dangerous.

Given the number of nutrients Bb robs, the body is already way out of balance.

[ 07-25-2012, 09:53 AM: Message edited by: Marnie ]

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hadlyme
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Marnie, Please remember that with any of this, lyme, babs, bart, Fl1953, that our bodies are not the same as 'normal' people that can look at all the 'normal' suggestions on how to eat, how to live, how to do anything.

When a microbiologist see's something under a microscope on what is working. I for one do believe that.

I feel SO much better just going low fat. Some days I can do 15grams, most days just around 20-25 which is still low.

We are not 'normal'......at least I am not.

It's not an extreme diet. It's a new way of eating whole foods and lower fat.

For those of us that eat this way, we are proof that we feel better.

--------------------
Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again!

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randibear
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people with pancreas problems do low fat or what they can tolerate.

it's the only way they can prevent acute attacks. plus they must take enzymes with everything.

not a good way to live, but many do it.

do be careful with doing low fat. it caused me to loose my gallbladder and i haven't been the same since.

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Marnie
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How many calories are you consuming?

For the purposes of this statement, a very low fat diet is defined as one in which ≤15% of total calories are derived from fat (33 g for a 2000-calorie diet.

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/98/9/935.full

Stampfer said the ***extremely*** low fat intake, combined with high blood pressure, may contribute to a

structural weakness in blood vessels that causes them to rupture.

He said the findings probably apply to men, too.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=116978&page=1

Atherosclerosis (plaque buildup in the arteries) is the result of

OXIDIZED LDL = LDL + free radicals.

Because of our need for oxygen, the downside is that -> "free radicals".

But we normally have enzymes and also take in nutrients to counter and protect us from all the DNA damaging - cell damaging free radicals.

When those enzymes or nutrients drop, we're in trouble.

It appears Bb has an ATP analog called AMP-PNP which competitively inhibits ATP-dependent enzyme systems, such as ***glutamine synthetase***

AND AMP-PNP also

Blocks ATP-sensitive calcium-dependent potassium channels.

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/sigma/a2647?lang=en®ion=US


Glutamine synthetase (GS) in brain is located mainly in astrocytes (brain cells). One of the primary roles of astrocytes is to

protect neurons against excitotoxicity by taking

up excess ammonia and glutamate and

converting it into glutamine via the enzyme GS.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12020613

There is supposed to be a glutamate-glutamine cycle.

Now...glutamine is our most abundant amino acid and the liver uses lactate + H -> lactic acid + glutamine to make glucose...to keep the blood supply of glucose up when it drops.

Unfortunately...

Cancer cells function via AEROBIC glycolysis (normally anaerobic) in the cytoplasm and the powerhouses of the cancer cells use glutamine.

This is the odd part about cancer cells....they use BOTH fuels...glucose AND an amino acid.

As does Bb who ferments glucose AND needs amino acids to build his cell walls.

There is such a thing as aerobic fermentation...and Bb is NOT a strict anaerobe.

NORMALLY we use one or the other.

GENETICALLY, my son has to eat cholesterol and nutrient rich WHOLE eggs (over easy to preserve the nutrients). His normal cholesterol is too low and when it gets really low this -> depression...and he knows he has to temporarily bump up his intake of WHOLE eggs.

Ever look at a raw egg carefully? See the "dot" on the yolk (sometimes it is a little red). That is where the chicken-embryo is...

on the most nutrient rich portion of the egg.

This is the balance in nature. Yes, eggs ARE high in cholesterol (which we need), but the yolk ALSO has in it

lecithin which is a

fat emulsifier!

...among many other beneficial nutrients...esp. those needed for our eye health.

Same with seeds and nuts...they are tiny nutrient packed power packages.

While the Ornish or other similar diets maybe beneficial for many persons i.e., those in the test who had HEART DISEASE, I suspect persons with heart disease AND other diseases were eliminated from the testing process.

Which skews the results.

In other words, if you had heart disease AND lyme disease or heart disease AND diabetes, it is highly unlikely you would be allowed in the testing to determine the potential benefits of the low fat diet.

LDL-cholesterol (remember LDL carries cholesterol) comes from our own body AND from our diet. Mostly our own body.

Wikipedia:

"Some research indicates cholesterol may act as an antioxidant."

Logical...LDL (don't want it oxidized) so attach it to an antioxidant...cholesterol.

Besides the foods we eat that have cholesterol, we MAKE it.

Wikipedia:

About 2025% of total daily cholesterol production occurs in the liver; other sites of higher synthesis rates include the intestines, adrenal glands, and reproductive organs.

If your intake of cholesterol is too low and your body can NOT produce enough in the above organs/sites...the body WILL find it somewhere...

Notably the myelin sheath will suffer.

Just like our bones are robbed of nutrients when the nutrients are desperately needed to preserve our life.

For a person of about 68 kg (150 pounds), typical total body cholesterol synthesis is about 1 g (1,000 mg) per day, and total body content is about 35 g, primarily

located within all the membranes of all the cells of the body.

Typical daily dietary intake of additional cholesterol, in the United States, is 200300 mg

However, most ingested cholesterol is esterified and esterified cholesterol is poorly absorbed.

The body also compensates for any

absorption of additional cholesterol

by reducing cholesterol synthesis.

For these reasons, cholesterol intake in food has little, if any, effect on total body cholesterol content or concentrations of cholesterol in the blood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholesterol


"Researchers have found that some foods -- such as ***fatty fish***, ***walnuts,*** oatmeal, and oat bran, and foods fortified with plant sterols or stanols -- can help control your cholesterol.

http://www.webmd.com/cholesterol-management/guide/cholesterol-lowering-foods

Low-fat, reduced fat, or fat-free processed foods are not necessarily healthy, nor is it automatically healthier to follow a low-fat diet.

One problem with a generic lower-fat diet is that it prompts most people to stop eating fats that are good for the heart along with those that are bad for it.

And low-fat diets are often higher in refined carbohydrates and starches from foods like white rice, white bread, potatoes, and sugary drinks.

Similarly, when food manufacturers take out fat, they often replace it with carbohydrates from sugar, refined grains, or starch.

Our bodies digest these refined carbohydrates and starches very quickly, causing blood sugar and insulin levels to spike and then dip, which in turn leads to hunger, overeating, and weight gain.

Over time, eating lots of fast carbs can raise the risk of heart disease and diabetes

as much asor more thaneating too much saturated fat.

So when you *cut back* on foods like red meat and butter,

replace them with fish, beans, *nuts*, and healthy oils

not with white bread, white rice, potatoes, sugary drinks, or other refined carbohydrates.

Although it is still important to limit the amount of cholesterol you eat, especially if you have diabetes, for most people dietary

cholesterol isn't nearly the villain it's been portrayed to be.

Cholesterol in the bloodstream, specifically the bad LDL cholesterol, is what's most important.

And the biggest influence on blood cholesterol level is the mix of fats and carbohydrates in your dietnot the amount of cholesterol you eat from food.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/fats-and-cholesterol/

Harvard.

The Ornish diet is primarily a vegan diet.

To follow the Ornish Diet:

Eat all the beans, legumes, fruits, grains, and vegetables you need to feel full.

Eat dairy low- or nonfat dairy products such as milk, cheese, and yogurt in moderation.

Only 10 percent of your calories should come from fat.

Avoid meats (red and white), oils and products containing oils, including avocados, olives, nuts, seeds, full-fat dairy, and sugar.

Exercise for at least 30 minutes five times a week or 60 minutes three times a week.

Manage stress with yoga and meditation and by spending time with your loved ones.

Kick unhealthy habits such as smoking or drinking alcohol in excess.

Eat smaller meals more often to combat hunger, but be careful not to overeat because youre eating more often.

How Does The Ornish Diet Work?

The Ornish Diet helps you to lose weight and maintain heart health because

***youre eating fewer calories***

and consuming less heart-damaging fat.

http://www.everydayhealth.com/diet-and-nutrition/the-ornish-diet.aspx

Unfortunately those who go to extremes often cut out ALL dairy (casein does raise cholesterol) and sub. soy milk. This is NOT what Ornish said.

And avoiding all nuts and seeds is not a good idea. Walnuts, according to Harvard, actually help us to control cholesterol levels, for example.

Ornish also suggests exercise and even muscle BUILDING programs in addition to meditation and yoga (to reduce stress which would trigger the adrenals to make cholesterol).

But some poo-poo "meditation" or yoga benefits and feel these are "hog-wash".

Anytime a person maintains a "highish" level of blood glucose, this will ultimately -> a "fatty liver"...which in time is destructive to the liver.

All the anti-seizure drugs cause an elevation of blood glucose. Example, Depakote -> "fatty liver".

Ultimately the extreme diets or eating foods way out of balance -> severe illness...case in point - Steve Jobs!

Vegan diets reduce blood glucose levels.

Our brain needs 100 GRAMS of glucose per day and our body needs another 100 GRAMS. The brain is considered a "glucose hog".

With insufficient glucose, the cells have no choice but to switch to utilizing fats for energy to make ATP.

In go the amino acids...the building blocks of proteins.

Glutamine...(cancer cells love that amino acid)

And while "he" is at it...inhibit glutamine synthetase which

protects the neurons against excitotoxicity by

taking up excess ammonia

and glutamate and converting it into glutamine.

The REAL culprit in our typical American diet -> so many overweight is

FRUCTOSE.

Table sugar (sucrose) is glucose + fructose.

When we skew the balance in favor of high fructose, we are in big trouble.

It is added to a lot of things because it helps preserve shelf life.

Like adding hydrogen to oils...saturating them...crisco...to preserve the shelf life.

Oils can go rancid due to O2 exposure...adding hydrogen helps stop that process.

[ 07-25-2012, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: Marnie ]

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randibear
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for myself i'm probably doing 25-30 but then i'm not eating very much at all.

i can't. hurts my stomach.

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Marnie
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Randibear:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/259645-horrible-stomach-pain-after-eating/

Critical that you get to a gastroenterologist to get to the root cause.

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Catgirl
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Randibear I thought eating fat caused gall bladder pain?

I understand that lyme patient's gallbladders easily get mucked up. My gall bladder has been hurting me lately.

I cut the fat, but I am also chelating right now. I just thought it was that and taking so many supplements.

I am so confused.

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--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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nefferdun
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You are not cutting out all fat on this diet. It is very healthy. I do not use oils when I cook and no meat. For breakfast I usually have oatmeal. One cup (cooked) has 2.5 grams of fat.

Most beans and rice have no fat and I make a lot of meals from them. I make vegan loaves out of black beans, black rice, onion, green pepper, spices, chia (loaded with omega 3) and enough whole wheat bread crumbs (or flour) to bind. No fat to speak of.

I can make chile with pinto beans, kidney beans, soy protein, diced tomatoes, spices, onion, peppers etc. About 2 grams fat.

I eat all the fruit and vegetables I want. Egg whites have no fat but a lot of sulfur and arginine which I am not supposed to have. I have them in baked goods. You can make spongecake with egg whites, whole wheat pastry flour and maple syrup - no fat. You can also make brownies or chocolate cake substituting mashed black beans for fat. It is very good. I even make corn bread substituting mashed white beans for fat.

I am telling you guys how to survive this diet and all my cheats. Grahm crackers have very little fat. Sometimes I make pudding from low fat goat's milk (2.5 grams per cup), a little honey or maple syrup and corn starch. I pour it over fresh fruit like peaches or bananas. A couple of grams crackers adds less than 1 gram fat.

I make smoothies from low fat yogurt (2 grams), frozen blueberries and frozen bananas. I can make a sorbet using juice instead of yogurt. Sorbet has no fat.

I am at my ideal weight. My husband is also pretty much on this diet as he eats what I eat most of the time. We are both feeling well and actually look better. A friend I recently saw commented that I looked more healthy and younger.

I just can't do the vegan thing. I crave a little cheese now and then. I am very careful and measure it so I know I am not overdoing it. 1/3 cup of low fat shredded mozzarella only has 6 grams of fat.

I use even less than that on a grilled portobello mushroom or a homemade pizza. I am making my own bread and use 1 TB oil in the whole loaf. Sometimes I even sprout the grain, dehydrate it and then grind it into flour.

I have more energy. I planted 30 trees and 18 bushes this past week. Then went for a long trial ride. This morning as I went out to feed the horses, I was feeling so perky I wondered if I could jog. I surprised myself as I did make it about 100 yards without feeling I would collapse (like before).

I can think better. I play cribbage with my husband several times a day. I am very quick at counting the cards. I remember things better. I am less anxious even though there are some very stressful things going on in my life.

It is not just the diet. The methy cycle mutations help. Currently I am taking 100mg of minocycline once a day and ivermectin every other day.

What I have lingering is dry eyes and pain in one knee now and then. I hope I stay this well.

Anyway, the point of my post is to assure you guys that this will not harm you, it is healthful and may even get you well.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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annxyzz
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JUST GLAD SOMEONE IS FEELING BETTER!!

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annxyzz

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Catgirl
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That's awesome Neff!

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--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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sparkle7
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You should write a cookbook, nefferdun! Sounds delicious. I wish someone would cook like that for me.

I still think the ivermectin is a big factor, though.

Also, Catgirl - nuts often have alot of yeast.

I guess I'm kind of thinking that's it's not a big factor since I did do a very clean diet & juicing a long time ago & it didn't help. It's expensive & time consuming to do all that kitchen work. Maybe I'll have to give it more thought when it gets cooler. I hate spending more than an hour or so in the kitchen.

I don't think I would cut out fats for too long. I'm with Marnie on this. These diet ideas are experimental. You don't know what the long term effect might be.

If you got parasites eating your insides out & losing nutrients - you need to rebuild. Then, the drugs have to be factored in. I'm sure many of them are depleting.

It may be a good idea to cut out the fats while trying to get rid of this parasite but I'm not sure about long term effects. We may have to do anti-parasite protocols for life. I got to be feeling pretty good after 2 years of fighting them - but they came back when I stopped.

I'm even kind of afraid of taking the anti-parasite drugs for long. I decided to try Raintree A-P. I've been feeling worse for about a month now. It must be hitting something.

Everyone is different, though.

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Marnie
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Important you all catch this:

"It is not just the diet. The methy (sic) cycle mutations help. Currently I am taking 100mg of minocycline once a day and ivermectin every other day."

Ivermecitin is an antiparasitic and used traditionally for worms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin Toxicity re: GABA is of interest.

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emla999/Lyme
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I thought that some of you that are trying Dr. F's low fat diet may find this video and the articles down bellow interesting.


Are polyunsaturated fatty acids bad for your health?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0VofcVk_8I&feature=player_embedded#!


Is fish oil actually bad for your health?


http://chriskresser.com/when-it-comes-to-fish-oil-more-is-not-better


http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/unsaturated-oils.shtml


For many years alot of people have claimed that the over consumption of Omega 6 polyunsaturated fats found in foods such in most grain/seed based cooking oils and highly processed foods can damage your health but the Omega 3 polunsaturated fats found in foods such as fish are good for your health.


But now, it seems as though some studies are starting indicate that eating Omega 3 fats may not be as good for your health as once thought.


I wonder if Dr. F has ever compared results of people that ate very little of all types of fats vs. people that ate normal amounts or even alot of saturated fats but ate very little to no polyunsaturated fats such as omega 3's and omega 6's?

Since the long term consumption of polyunsaturated fats appears to have the potential to cause health problems in people it would be rather interesting to see if just eliminating polyunsaturated fats from your diet would be just as effective at treating the FL1953 bug as eating a diet that consists a eating very little of any type of fat, including polyunsatured, saturated and monounsaturated fats.


.

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Wallace
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The important thing about this diet is to eliminate separated oils. I. e; fry in water. You get the oil from the whole food. Ground linseeds etc.

Young coconuts are only 15 per cent fat[a cornerstone now of my diet] and I also think they heal a bad digestive system. This must be tackled no matter what diet we are on. Fermented foods are another option here.

Of course the diet is safe. Bill Clinton is no fool!

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Wallace
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http://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-3333/Bill-Clinton-Talks-PlantBased-Diet-with-David-Letterman.html
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MichaelTampa
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quote:
Originally posted by emla999/Lyme:
I thought that some of you that are trying Dr. F's low fat diet may find this video and the articles down bellow interesting.


Are polyunsaturated fatty acids bad for your health?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0VofcVk_8I&feature=player_embedded#!


Is fish oil actually bad for your health?


http://chriskresser.com/when-it-comes-to-fish-oil-more-is-not-better


http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/unsaturated-oils.shtml


For many years alot of people have claimed that the over consumption of Omega 6 polyunsaturated fats found in foods such in most grain/seed based cooking oils and highly processed foods can damage your health but the Omega 3 polunsaturated fats found in foods such as fish are good for your health.


But now, it seems as though some studies are starting indicate that eating Omega 3 fats may not be as good for your health as once thought.


I wonder if Dr. F has ever compared results of people that ate very little of all types of fats vs. people that ate normal amounts or even alot of saturated fats but ate very little to no polyunsaturated fats such as omega 3's and omega 6's?

Since the long term consumption of polyunsaturated fats appears to have the potential to cause health problems in people it would be rather interesting to see if just eliminating polyunsaturated fats from your diet would be just as effective at treating the FL1953 bug as eating a diet that consists a eating very little of any type of fat, including polyunsatured, saturated and monounsaturated fats.


.

Dr. F. in speeches has said the type of fat does not matter, that the FL1953 thrives on fat, regardless of the kind.

I am eating about 28-30 grams of fat a day (about twice the 15 grams/day Dr. F. recommends for those with FL1953). I am pendulum testing how much fat/day and also the type of fat at each meal. Sometimes it has come from coconuts or coconut oil and thus been saturated fat, and sometimes it has come from unsaturated fat, so my experience is the type of fat does not affect the appropriate total for the day. I should point out, I don't know if I have the FL1953 bug. I took the test and am awaiting results.

It would be convenient if things that were true for the rest of the population made sense for us, but that is not the case in many ways.

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nefferdun
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The stromectol has done a lot. I quit the mino because it makes me dizzy and gives me a headache. I just can't tolerate the abx any more so I haven't got too many options left. I don't know the long term effects of ivermectin.

If it is not to be give to animals intended for human consumption, then you wonder how safe it is. I don't have another option right now. I hope I can eventually control the protomyxzoa with just diet and supplements.

That was a great video with Bill Clinton. It was funny that Esselstyl "fudges" on New Year's Eve, eating a bit of chocolate.

After Clinton explains he is looking and feeling so much better because he is on a near vegan diet, I think Letterman sums it up for everyone when he says, "you see, I don't want to do that".

That is what people who object to this diet are really saying. They just don't want to try it because they don't want to give up their food addictions. When you are addicted to something you believe you can't live without it. That is what people are saying when they say it must be unhealthy.

Funny, it must be unhealthy but I feel so good.

I would like to have nuts, avocado, butter and more cheese but I am not going to say not having it is going to make me sick. Not frying my food is not going to make me sick either. Think of how many more nutrients you get from your food when it is not covered in grease so it is easier to digest.

I have noticed I can eat a lot more, as much as I want. That means I am eating a lot more vegetables and fruits - food that is loaded with antioxidants and vitamins. The fat is a filler. It has very little food value.

How much fat do you think is in a fish oil capsule? About 1 to 1.75 grams! Why in the world are you ranting about omega 3's. Good grief, you could take 8-10 fish oil capsules and still not exceed your fat requirements for the day.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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Wallace
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yep people are in denial bigtime!!
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Marnie
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Sorry...but I'm pro "fish" (symbol).

Hillary sure doesn't look like SHE'S on that diet!

Fruit is loaded with fructose!

Bb is phosphofructokinase dependent (= PFK).

Phosphofructokinase (PFK)catalyses the phosphorylation of fructose-6-phosphate to fructose-1,6- bisphosphate.

Yes...not eating a lot of proteins and fats IS easier on the digestive system. This is WHY we use glucose FIRST and it is a key nutrient needed by our body. 100 Grams per day for our brain, another 100 Grams per day for our body.

Unfortunately Bb likes it (and amino acids) too...as do cancer cells.

Cancer cells function on AEROBIC (normally anaerobic) glycolysis in the cell cytoplasm AND glutamine = amino acid - (in the mitochondria).

Bb ferments glucose aerobically (in the cytoplasm) and triggers also the import of amino acids to build "his" cell walls and to make "his" RNA and DNA.

This is a very delicate balance.

NORMALLY we use EITHER glucose OR Ketones (amino acids from the breakdown of fats or proteins)to supply energy to our cells.

Bb and cancer cells use both.

Dr. F finds a new pathogen that is not confirmed by other microbiologists and now he is an expert at recommending what diet one should be on? When did he get a 5 year degree in nutrition?

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Catgirl
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Fascinating links Emla. I feel compelled to try this (eliminate polyunsaturated fats first and see what happens).

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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FL1953
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I've been lurking on this subject for the past few months and thought I'd finally comment.

I've had Lyme and "some other" coinfection for at least 4 years now. Been in treatment for 2.5 years. Mostly orals, and most of them in different combinations.

While I've had some improvement, weakness, and post exertional malaise and exaserbation of symptoms has never resolved. I've been unable to walk more than 50 yards

Until now...

I've been following Dr. Fry's research for a few years now. Mostly through the Lyme Doc Blog. I remember him mentioning some strange things on blood slides.

Well, when FL1953 was finally isolated and had it's geonone sequenced I thought perhaps he was one to something. Reading his interview convinced me to try his recommendations.

I have not been tested because my LLMD is in a state where the test can not be ordered.

But back in the middle of April I started the low fat, low argenine diet. I keep my fat grams down to 10-15 a day. I eat no wheat. Basically I live on beans, lentils, brown or black rice, fruits and vegetables.

I find the diet hard at times, and I've been ordered by my LLMD to eat some meat once a week. Too many days of low fat starts to make me depressed and hard to deal with.

So, I do the diet fairly strictly 6 days a week, and loosen up a bit on Sundays. I do supplementn with methylcobolamin each day.

I am not on any antiparasitic meds. Just Plaquenil, Cednifir and Biaxin. Lot's of probiotics. Oh, and I take Cryptolepis.

My improvement has been dramatic. I'm working 60 hours a week again, cutting my own grass, doing chores around the house and my brain fog has almost been eliminated.

For the past two years I couldn't stand to have my legs hang down, like in a car. Last week I drove for 4 hours without issue. A few weeks ago I dug out my yard for a pool with a pick ax and shovel. Wheelbarrowed 1 ton of sand from my driveway to the pool.

Also, I've regained the ability to sweat. A few years ago I bought a really nice, and too expensive FIR sauna. I could sit in it for 30 minutes at 130 degrees and never break a sweat. Now if I work at something hard, I have sweat dripping off me - like I always did before Lyme.

I almost forgot to mention I also take Lumbrokinise. I take 2 capsules, twice a day. I take Allergy Research brand, as I just can't afford Boluke with everything else.

I'm getting veins back in my hands and feet.

So, this is just my two cents on the subject. I understand this is not a healthy diet and can not stay on it for life. But since it's the first thing that's worked, I'm sticking with it for probably a year.

I know this is a little disjointed, but it's mostly a brain dump. Just wanted to get my thoughts out there.

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FL1953
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Marnie, what other microbiologists have failed to find to this organism? I'm not aware of other microbioligists being involved at all.

He recommended the low fat diet because he found the organism grew exponentially faster in the presence of lipids, argenine and magnesium.

I've never seen him to profess to be an expert in nutrition.

He is however an expert in this organism. I know dozens of people who have been helped by this diet, where nothing else has ever helped.

[ 07-31-2012, 08:14 PM: Message edited by: FL1953 ]

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bigdreams87
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You should be looking at fat calories vs. total calories. Try to keep fat calories under 15% of total calories.
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Marnie
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A new microorganism has to be confirmed by others (microbiologists) before it is "accepted" as such and

not just a mutation of some already known organism.

Bb needs tryptophan. It cannot grow in ANY nutrient combinations that don't have tryptophan. BTW...it is very hard to grow Bb.

I am glad you are feeling better on this diet AND all of your Rxs and supplements.

My son would go into extreme depression on low fat as genetically he HAS to have fats.

His cholesterol is TOO LOW...way too low and this has just been linked to (his) autism.

What works for one may not work for all. For some who have genetic differences, this diet MIGHT make matters WORSE.

Arginine.

Our liver uses lactate + H -> lactic acid + glutamine -> glucose...preferentially. This is called gluconeogenesis and it can happen here too:

Our KIDNEYS use lactate + H -> lactic acid + arginine -> glucose.

Theoretically lowering the levels of arginine (2nd most abundant amino acid).

Halt liver gluconeogenesis...upregulate kidney gluconeogenesis.

Bb uses Mn for most of "his" enzymes - esp. MnSOD. We use Mg for most of ours.

It would not be logical for Bb to use Mg because Mg is anti-inflammatory, anti-histamine and most importantly, it inhibits HMG CoA reductase (like statins and berberine). Bb follows the cholesterol pathway to build "his" cell walls.

Bb's toxin exists and it does this:

Mg-ATP -> Mg (out) and ATP -> ADP + cAMP (way up).

cAMP levels prevent cell death...the cell is crying out for help.

Meanwhile ADP + ribose (if not stolen by Bb to make "his" RNA) -> DNA REPAIR...ours.

And yes, our DNA is damaged...undermethylated and the impact of ROS also.

FL1953...given your location listed in your profile, you might be interested in how Bb impacts (negatively) RHO via "his" ADP-ribosyltransferase and look at the Greek translation for RHO.

As in Chi RHO.

http://www.actionlyme.org/Donta.htm
ADP-ribosyltransferase

[ 07-29-2012, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: Marnie ]

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FL1953
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I was on all those ABX and supplements before I tried adding the diet. Nothing else has ever worked.

It's my understanding that others will attempt to replicate Dr. F's findings once he's published them. I've read that the publication is in the works.

All I care about is I've found something that works. I have my life back again, where I used to have no hope.

Everyone has their own path to wellness, this is mine.

To be honest Marnie, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

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surprise
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I, for one, am grateful when folks write they are having improvement-

(especially in energy!)

--------------------
Lyme positive PCR blood, and
positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011.
low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012.
Update 7/16- After extensive treatments,
doing okay!

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riverspirit
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To FL1953 ~ thanks for sharing what is helping you. Just one thing ~ you said that you are not taking any anti-parasitics. The cryptolepis is an anti-protozoal herb. And a very strong one!

We are each so different and i'm enjoying reading what is helping some people. There are people who have healed themselves of all sorts of "incurable" illnesses by doing all sorts of things.

Ultimately we each have to feel into what helps us and what doesn't help. There is no "right" or "wrong" here.

I appreciate how people brought to the conversation many factors, including the links to Matt Stone's blog.

Thank you ~

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FL1953
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Riverspirit, you're right I did forget Crypto was a anti-protozoal drug. I probably started the diet about a month beore starting the Crypto and the Lumbrokinese. I'll tell you, even a small dose makes me so sleepy.

I've tried other anti-parasitic protocols in the past with no improvement. Done heavy metal detox, with no improvement. Done IV ABX with no improvement.

My improvement came when I started the diet.

Marni, thank you for pointing out all my mispellings and other points that you think are in error.

I came here to share my story to help others.

But same old LymeNet. Just takes one member to **** on someone's parade enough to make them stop posting.

This certainly will be my last post.

As far as Hades goes as a location. It was a whim. You analyse things to a fault.

Later Lymenet.

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nefferdun
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Fl1953, please do come back and post again. Your experience is very helpful to everyone. We are all in this together.

Marnie, your arrogant response was very put downish and rude. So what if he misspells something. We all make typos and misspell words. I won't bother reading your posts any more.

Dr. Fr did not recommend a low fat diet until some of his patients who tried it reported it helped them recover. He then did some research and found protomyxzoa multiplies 150 times faster with lipids.

If you just eat whole foods and eliminate frying your foods in fat, drenching vegetables in fat and eating animals, you can do this diet. Processed vegetable oils are not healthy so I can't figure out why people think they would be missing important nutrients not to use them.

One of the most healthy forms of fat is chia seed. Half an oz has 4.5 grams of fat and 2,500 mg of omega 3's. You can substitute chia for eggs and fat in many baked goods. You just have to educate yourself to use this diet correctly. 3 oz of wild Atlantic salmon has about 2,200 mg of omega 3's and 7 grams of fat, so the chia seed is superior to salmon in terms of amounts of omega 3 fat oz per oz.

It is also highly energizing. The Aztec Indians used them for long distance running and it is believed to be one of the reasons they were so successful in their conquests. They carried chia seeds and did not have to stop to eat.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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sparkle7
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There are some very interesting observations here. I like to read the threads & see what people are posting & how they do with the various ideas about how to get well.

I believe that we as humans are very adaptable in diet. I've read of people who eat alot of fats like the Eskimo but I don't know about any cultures that ate a very low fat diet. I'm going to study it further. I'm also going to look at the videos posted when I get a chance.

Also, I think Dr. Fs findings are very interesting! I was a bit skeptical at first but it's pretty big news about his observations. I'm going to keep an open mind. Especially in light of how many people here are discovering that they can't get well & they have improvements when treating parasites in general.

It's very possible that this FL1953 can live on fats. I'm not a scientist but I do like to study these things. I'm going to give it some further thought.

Some people do well with the Marshall protocol but it's a bit too out there for me. So, everyone is different in what they may respond to.

I love chia in those kombucha beverages you can get at the healthfood store. I was getting really addicted to them.

Thanks for the info. I think it's best to keep an open mind about things. You never know... I think this protomyxzoa may be a hugely important discovery. Especially if it's spread via mosquito. The more times one is bitten as they get older - the more likely that they can have it. That really blew my mind.

I can see why Dr. F is holding his cards close to his chest about all of this. There are a lot of new discoveries about diet these days - especially a callory restricted diet, etc. There's alot of bad foods with dangerous rancid fats - genetically modified, gene spliced weird "franken" foods about to be marketed to us. It's probably not a bad idea at all to do some dramatic rethinking of diet in light of all of this.

I was just reading the other day that apples are now being genetically modified... Strange days, indeed.

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Lymetoo
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Wow... I see a lot of yeast coming on with a diet like that. It would do me in for sure.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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nefferdun
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I have no yeast issues at all and I eat a LOT of fruit. I do not need antibiotics any more. Stromectol does not cause yeast. But if you are taking abx, then you would have to limit your fruit.

My son is diabetic so I have studied the glycemic index which is how quickly food is converted into glucose in the blood. This would affect yeast as well. The basics of this diet are low to medium on the Glycemic Index.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by nefferdun:
I have no yeast issues at all and I eat a LOT of fruit. I do not need antibiotics any more. Stromectol does not cause yeast. But if you are taking abx, then you would have to limit your fruit.

My son is diabetic so I have studied the glycemic index which is how quickly food is converted into glucose in the blood. This would affect yeast as well. The basics of this diet are low to medium on the Glycemic Index.

-
I'm not even on antibiotics. STill have trouble. I do eat an apple once in awhile. I love them.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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NJFitnessGuy
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I have tried almost every single type nutritional program under the sun over the last 12 years without cheating more than a couple times on each.

The low fat diet, vegan diet, atkins diet, etc., etc.

There is definitely NOT a one size fits all diet for lyme or any other disease or ailment, IMO.

Through my experience alone, I believe it all comes down to individualized genetics, blood type, etc.

I have done best on Dr. Peter D`Adamo`s Genotype Swami diet. I am a O+ Explorer and I eat a lot of animal products.

I eat all organic/grass fed and I do try to keep my fruit intake to a minimal, although sweet fruits such as pineapple and grapes are a superfood for my type and never seemed to have a negative effect on me.

My diet mostly consists of beef, cod, eggs, turkey, egg white protein powder, carob, kale, spinach, broccoli, onions, olive oil, Curry, Brown Rice(4x week post weight training), pineapple(4 x week), mozzerella chesse(1x per week) and some pecans or macadamia nuts from time to time.

I eliminate all wheat, gluten, corn, soy and dairy(except mozzerella cheese). Just drink water, so no artificial sweetners, etc..

It`s great to hear that the low fat diet has worked well for a few individuals. I know it never worked for me.

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MichaelTampa
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I did something like this diet about a year ago for about 6 weeks and needed to go extra on the Sacch Boulardi and probiotics during this time.

Nowadays, my yeast issue is much better controlled, and that is not an issue for me, although I still am eating fruit on an extremely limited basis (0-1-2 small portions a week). I did run into some blood sugar issues when I started a diet like this back up again recently, but have added back some minerals (zinc, chromium, vanadium) in supplement form and that is back under control.

This diet is definitely a potential challenge for those with the candida/yeast/fungus type issues. Almost need to have that under a certain level of control before trying it, I would think.

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hadlyme
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Thank you FL1953 for your words! Please do not let one person stop you from sharing your story!

You had wisdom and knowledge in your post! And speaking from experience and heart is the BEST thing possible!

For the 'wanttabee' know it alls in here... please? what really really really seriously is your point you are trying to make?

Good grief... if you don't want to do a way of eating that makes you feel better, then don't knock what others are doing.

If you don't like what we are doing and that we are feeling better doing it.. then Move On. Go to another thread please.

Peace People!!

--------------------
Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again!

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FL1953
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Working on getting an FL1953 group going over on MDJunction if anyone is interested. The group is not active yet, but probably will be in a day or so.

To address the yeast concerns; they are valid.

It's the one thing I worried about when starting this diet. So far I've had no yeast issues at all. Perhaps because I don't eat bread, or anything with wheat in it.

I don't eat any sugar, not even honey. I do eat plenty of fruit, but no bananas or grapes.

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Catgirl
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FL1953, did you ever have yeast prior to this? It is the one thing holding me back from embracing this diet full on. :(

I have eliminated nuts from my diet though. It has been really hard, but that alone has knocked off 25g that I was eating per day.

Now I eat 50-64gm/day (was 80-100gm), but that is no where near the 15grams Dr. F. recommends. I do feel better though.

Still waiting to take the test.

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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sparkle7
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I'm curious to see how people are doing with this diet. I'll probably wait for a few months before considering it - just to see how people are doing. I think the most gain is from the anti-parasite protocol rather than the diet but I don't know for sure.

There's alot we don't know so I'm still skeptical. I heard that diet accounts for 60% of illness in women & 40% in men. I don't know if this is just for cancer or other illnesses or how this number was obtained. It was on a radio show with Dr. Simone -

http://www.drsimone.com/

I don't like being to persnicketty about diet. It's just my personality... Some people are very good about keeping track of everything. I just try to survive & eat what's available. Not that I eat alot of junk food but it's hard for me to spend all day shopping, doing kitchen work, & cooking.

Good quality food is getting harder & harder to find & it's really expensive.

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FL1953
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Catgirl, no I've never really had problems with yeast during treatment. I was fortunate to have a good LLMD who prescribed a lot of probiotics from the beginning.

I've been in treatment for over 2.5 years, different oral combos, some IV, Cowden, BWF's, but through it all I've taken UltraFlora, Saccaymycin (yes, I know I mispelled that), and Theralac. When I was on the most ABX I also took VSL#3.

I know what you mean about eliminating nuts. I was a peanut butter junky, probably a jar a week just myself, natural kind. And I munched on other nuts all the time. I do miss them.

I am at 10-15 grams of fat per day now, sometimes less, sometimes a little more. I cheat once a week and eat some meat.

The only anti parasitic I'm on is Crytpolepis, but I was on the diet for a few months before starting that, and I was already starting to improve.

I won't lie, sometimes the diet is really hard. You've got to like beans, lentils, brown rice, fruits and vegetables. That's not a lot of variety and I get tired of eating the same old thing.

The only advice I would give to someone considering the diet is to prepare. I really didn't and it made it much more difficult. Find some really good low fat recipes until you have enough to choose from.

If you don't, one of two things will happen. You'll either give up on the diet very quickly, or it will become a control issue and you won't eat.

Unfortunately, that's what I've done a few times. I've gone a few days at a time without eating because I could figure out what to eat.

That's not healthy at all, but in my mind it was the first control I've had over my condition since it all began.

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hadlyme
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I have found that in the beginning, I kept a notebook by my fridge and would write down all the fat grams of things I ate. This alone made me aware of what numbers I was eating.

After a few weeks, I quite writing them down after I got a handle on what I was doing.

I do eat a little chicken and grass fed beef. Dr. F does know that I do this. So, lower fat, no oils, no nuts, whole foods, veggies, fruits. I find that I really can eat quite a bit.

I might stay at about 20-25 a day.... and I'm doing great on that.

Find what works, start out slow. Don't go from normal eating to 15 grams a day. I think that's too drastic and hard to do.

I do not worry about yeast, but I pulse one week a month with Diflucan. I've never had 'problems' with it that I know of. [Smile]

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nefferdun
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You have to build up favorite recipes which takes time. Lots of experimentation. Here is a site with a lot of low fat recipes.

http://www.fatfree.com/recipes/

I am not strictly adhering to vegan but I do count fat grams and try to stay around 15 grams. I feel it is important to adhere to the diet as closely as possible. When I overdo my cheats I feel it.

I have been off the ivermectin for three days and have almost no symptoms. I just hope I don' relapse in the winter. That is the real test. I will restart the ivermectin soon and pulse it.

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Catgirl
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Michael, I know you mentioned you had to deal with yeast before. How are you doing this? What are you eating?

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MichaelTampa
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Breakfast is either oatmeal or quinoa. Occasionally 1/2 of a walnut or 1 tsp of hemp seeds mixed in. Other than that, nothing added.

Lunch is often lentils or beans with veggies in there, no oil added.

Dinner is where I get most of my fat for the day. Corn/quinoa pasta or bread; plus some form of veggie burgers would end a pretty typical day. There is one brand now that has coconut in there, 6-7 grams each total. Another brand is more soy and sprouted grains style.

I was challenged a little more with blood sugar than yeast, it seems. I am now taking GlycoCinn product bought at thedispensaryonline.com (same site that sells TriQuench iodine). I have been monthly doing parasites during full moons, and continue to take lyme nosodes with an occasional GcMAF boost. I have also increased the amount of protein pills I am taking each day, as my higher fat diet also was higher in protein.

All of this challenges with metals and yeast. I seem to be coping fairly well, though, hanging in there decently. Last year when I did this for 6 weeks it was a lot worse. My yeast is much better now, thought still an issue requiring regular attention. Metagenics CandiBactin BR and Seagate OLE and Custom Probiotics (6-strain and 11-strain versions) and SacchBoulardi and DigestaLac probiotics from Natrens are keeping things in check. Occasional oil pulling as well. Last time I was taking 3-4 of the CandiBactin per meal. This time, some days I have to take one, some days I don't. Yet when I tried adding a small amount of fruit in with the oatmeal (1/4 blueberries or raspberries, or 1 kiwi), after a few days the yeast was getting seriously out of control. Perhaps it was timed bad with other treatments and I'd manage it now. I'm amazed to read about neff and others handling so much fruits, I'm sure that wouldn't work for me these days. It seems there is quite a continuum we are all on different parts of regarding how much we can handle with regard to carbs and fruits.

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RC1
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I had done the diet for a couple of months. My LLMD told me he didn't like it that I wasn't eating enough protein. I was also getting very light headed and my liver function was a little low.

I decided to go off the diet and see how I felt. I didn't really feel any different. I am also not eating much chicken or eating nuts like I was before.

I think for me I might have been dealing with an allergy situation because I felt immediately better when I didn't eat meat that first night. By meat, I mean chicken, I ate chicken and nuts every day.

I will still continue to eat lower protein and lower fat than I was before the diet. I don't know for sure that I have the Fry bug, I was never tested. I think eating more veg and less meat and fat is probably healthier, Fry Bug or no Fry Bug.

I am not lightheaded anymore, and I just had some blood work the other day and my liver function has come up. (I googled the markers that were low for me, and it said it can come from starvation) I never had that before the diet.

I guess what I am saying is that if you do do the diet make sure you get enough protein. I had tried soy, but didn't do well on it, I think that could be another allergy for me.

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MichaelTampa
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Just wanted to report, for those interested, I got back my Fry Lab results today. Those results said that their PCR test did find evidence/genes of the FL1953.
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sparkle7
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Thanks for the info everyone. My feeling today is that the diet is too severe. I'm going to continue to look in to see how people are doing.

I can see someone older or overweight doing this for a bit but I can't see a young person doing this. I think people need balance in the diet & we do need protein. I don't think tofu, beans or veggie burgers cut it.

From what Dr. F said - I would be surprised if people didn't have the FL1953... He seems to think it can be spread via mosquito.

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Catgirl
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Thank you for your diet info Michael. :)

I had a feeling about the FL1953. I'm sorry to hear you have it, but happy to hear you know. I think it's better to know than to guess. I'm going to get tested so I will know for sure. I don't want to make things worse by adding more fat. My diet is already 38% fat (and that was after I pared it down).

I'm going to try some grains this weekend. I have been doing something similar to one of the things you do, except that instead of the candibactin, I upped my probiotic to 75 billion cultures per meal. It really seems to help.

I take so many supplements, I wasn't sure if I could mix candibactin with everything, including malarone, so I take it at night, or sometimes I take plant enzymes.

Micahel, have you figured out how much total protein you are getting per day? I read that you are taking a protein pill (is it soy based?). I need to stay away from soy.

RZR, thanks for sharing about the protein too. Are you eating or did you eat very many beans prior to your blood test?

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MichaelTampa
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I always test for the CandiBactin BR during meals (with food). I believe I'm taking it primarily for yeast.

Following the test, I am adding malarone as well.

I really haven't counted protein in the diet. I am taking 25 grams a day in high quality supplement, "MAP Protein" is it's name. I take it in 3 doses (10/5/10). This is pure protein, nothing else in it. It needs to be taken 25 minutes before meals to be properly utilized. Unfortunately, it is a bit on the expensive side.

I also just energy tested to add in some hemp seed protein, 7.5 grams a day, which will also add in about 2 grams of fat a day. So, it has been 25 grams/day plus whatever is in the oats / quinoa / lentils / quinoa/corn or rice pasta / various veggie burgers. But looks like it's headed toward 32-33 grams/day plus the food.

My protein supplementing needs have absolutely increased as I've continued to move away from foods that had been high fat and high protein. In the end, the body needs the protein, whether from foods or supplements. As a vegan, I have fewer choices on the protein, and this is what I've come up with. For those not restricting themselves in that way, there are at least a couple/few more options ... egg whites (I think neff is doing that), I know there is 1 or 2 types of fish that are very low fat (look out for mercury and hormones and other chemicals, but perhaps it could be achieved).

Hilary's is a brand of veggie burger I am using a lot. Most of it's fat comes from coconut, a "good" saturated fat. There are other brands with good ingredients and decent protein. I sometimes test for more "junky" ingredient veggie burgers too, they are higher in protein from soy, so I believe my body is saying it wants that protein, even if it comes with phytoestrogens and other chemicals/junk. Perhaps after the hemp seed protein is added in, that will change.

Most soy and/or rice based protein supplements are LOADED with mercury. At least, that was the case 5 years ago, perhaps things have changed. I believe it probably comes from the equipment it is processed on, as those metals often have mercury in them. When I take hemp protein powder, I use Nutiva brand, which I consider much better than Manitoba Farms brand.

Over the last 1-2 weeks, I have started testing and eating something more like 18 grams of fat/day, rather than the 28 grams that I had been steady on for at least a couple weeks. I had mainly eaten just plain grains for breakfast and plain lentils/beans for lunch, and then taken about 12-14 grams of fat at dinner, just energy testing what to take at dinner. After testing today the amount per day, it occurred to me that is what I had been doing for at least a week, without knowing it. So, I am way down to almost what Dr. F. recommends (18 and 15 are both VERY low, and pretty close in the grand scheme of things).

Editing to add I have also increased my DHA intake to 750mg/day, with EPA holding at 600mg/day. Sparkle has a post with "low-fat" in the tagline talking about the essential fatty acids and how they may help kill some parasites. So, not only just generally essential for a lot of activities, despite being fat, they may well help fight the FL1953.

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Catgirl
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I thought I'd give an update here. I have been chelating heavy metals all summer. I finally tried some anti parasitic herbs, added some stuff that's in "the Core" (KPU), discovered enzymes for yeast, and my yeast got better. I can even eat a little fruit now (yay)! So, because I've reduced my yeast issues, I am now able to embrace a low fat diet.

I discovered a few weeks ago that I can no longer eat nuts or avocados (been eating them my whole life) without feeling like crap (babs symptoms). I never really made the connection before, even though I kept a journal (sometimes I'm clueless). So I quit eating nuts, avocados, eggs and drastically reduced my fat intake. What a difference this made! I feel much better when I do this. I am still eating a little bit of meat though (working through it).

I'm still working on getting my fat levels down even more. The more I do, the better I feel. I know it sounds weird, but it's working. I struggle with the fish oil and tried not taking it a week. I noticed that I feel better on it even if it is every few days. I'm thinking if I eliminate meat completely, then I can take the fish oil again. I like your suggestions, Michael. Maybe I should incorporate protein powder too. I just can't take any soy (allergic to it).

We are all different, and have to do whatever is good for each of us, individually. I just wanted to share that anyone who has babs symptoms, IMO, should definitely give this diet a try.

I am no longer living to eat, I'm eating to live. And the best part is, my knee pain is gone, baby gone!

Thank you Nefferdun, Hadlyme, Michael and everyone else who provided all the great info here. [Smile]

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hadlyme
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Great News Catgirl!

It is really pretty simple huh.... lower fat grams makes us feel better. It's weird huh!

Glad that Knee pain is gone!!!!

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Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again!

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nefferdun
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That is wonderful Catgirl. My knee pain is gone too. Be careful of protein powder because the biofilm thrives on arginine. We do not need as much protein as we have been lead to believe.

In fact, protein produces ammonia. Getting rid of the ammonia uses up molecules necessary for generating neurotransmitters and glutathione.

You are allowed 15 grams of fat per day. There are 14 grams of fat in 1 TB of oil so your little fish oil capsule is not a problem. Look at how much is in it and add that to your daily total to try to keep your grams to less than 20, and hopefully around 15.

One avocado has about 24 grams of fat and nuts are loaded. I was eating a lot of nuts and cheese and butter because I thought I needed it to properly absorb that very expensive mepron (how could you possibly waste it!). It turns out I was feeding the protomyxzoa and sure enough it took over.

I also gained 10 pounds. Now I have lost 20 pounds. It feels great and I eat all that I want.

Cooking interesting meals is a challenge. The new protomyxzoa site is sharing recipes which is very helpful. You may want to visit.

http://www.mdjunction.com/forums/protomyxzoa-rheumatica-discussions

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old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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MichaelTampa
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Great to hear your news, Catgirl. I continue on this very low fat diet as well, although I am really making zero progress symptomwise and am extremely fatigued.

As I have continued on this diet longer (related or not), I am testing for more pills, including those that do have fat. With all of them, I just added them up, and it ranges from 12-15 grams a day of fat that is in the pills I am eating (energy testing as very helpful). The food I eat is very low-fat.

These pills include phosphatidyl-choline / serine / etc., EPA, DHA, vitamin E, artemisinin suppository, EDTA suppository, vitamin K2, mila, and hemp protein powder. The mila and hemp have the linolenic and linoleic acids that someone on here found can be good to help treat another protozoa.

I am also taking malarone.

I do feel some progress has been made with regard to circulation, and some funny brown spots on the bottom of my legs have decreased substantially in quantity (yet there are still plenty).

I am getting close to starting on hydrocortisone and maybe thyroid meds.

I am eating lots of pasta with spaghetti sauce, a childhood favorite that my body is tolerating well these days. No problems here with the same thing over and over, I've been that way much of the time, even with plenty of choices. I am looking forward to the season changing where winter squash with flavor becomes available.

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Cass A
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Dear Friends,

I've been very interested to read through this entire thread! Haven't been reading or posting to LymeNet for many months, as I'm currently doing dental/chiropractic treatment for Chronic Cerebral-Spinal Venous Insufficiency (CCSVI)structrual issues.

Some time ago, I also was doing research on the Fry bug (FL1953), named protomyxzoa, and decided that, due to earlier hypercoagulation issues that were successfully treated with Rechts Regulat, I most probably have it. I've not gotten the test done yet.

The worst symptomatic effects of Lyme and co-infections for me are seizures, followed by brain fog, memory loss, and chronic fatigue.

Dr. K's regime of chlorella followed 30 minutes later with cilantro tincture has definitely helped with the brain fog!

The chiropractor I'm seeing as part of the structural handling of CCSVI recommended a ketogenic, high-fat diet to me, as it is a successful treatment for epilepsy. Not recalling the cautions from Dr. F regarding fats, I increased my fats. Seemed to help. Until yesterday......

Another factor in my diet, is that I KNOW I am a Type O, which needs animal protein. The basic blood type of a person does have a great impact on what diet will work for them.

Too much fruit and/or grains, and I start to get insulin reactions and need to sleep even more!!

A naturopathic doctor I know recommends that no grains or seeds or nuts be eaten unless they are sprouted, as otherwise they contain substances that block the digestive enzymes----this is how seeds can stay "alive" in the soil (or in Egyptian tombs!) for so long.

Much has recently been brought up about fermented foods (not here) and how these improve the immune system in the gut, and how that system of beneficial bacteria can be harmed with antibiotics. Well, I was taking Zithromax with Mepron for 10 months a while back, and had really done nothing to regenerate these beneficial guys, so I started making and eating my own cultured vegetables, kombucha, and water kefir.

Additional info relates to Genetically Modified Organisms in foods (GMOs), which are more and more being exposed as harmful to anyone's health!! At the top of the "harmful" list are soy and corn, which are now found in just about every processed food under many names (natural flavors, high fructose corn syrup, just to get started on looking at this issue).

I'd love for this conversation to be updated and continued. Long-term results are what we are all looking for.

Best,

Cass A

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Catgirl
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I'm bumping this thread up for people who have tried everything, as well as for people with unrelenting babs (symptoms are similar).

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Catgirl
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I was reading another person's thread last night and recognized some protomxzoa (proto) symptoms. I had an "ah ha" moment that hit me like a ton of bricks. I tested negative for this bug but came to the conclusion last night that I definitely have it. I feel good about the fact that I finally figured it out, as well as that I'm accepting it now. You'd think I would have figured it out the first time with my success when trying a low diet (above). Lol!

I remember going low fat last year and feeling better. I also believed I kicked my bart then too (bart is back now). Then I tried some fats again since deep down I didn't think I had proto (negative test, and thought getting rid of bart was why I felt better). I didn't have a problem for many months. I didn't go crazy with the fats, I just cut some fats down, just in case. I felt like I balanced my diet, and had it down (maybe I did).

I can now see that eating more fat helped proto grow again (slowly). It was so subtle, and easy for me to miss even though I kept a journal. My journal is helping me now though to confirm all of this. I am thrilled with the fact that I almost kicked bart just by going low fat, and eating much less meat. Doing so allowed the herbs I took to kill it (knock it back) because the biofilm wall was down, so the herbs got through.

I know other people with proto have kicked some of their co infections, so now I'm on a quest to achieve similar results. I'm back to cutting the fat and animal products, TODAY! This gives me hope, because if I can knock out my co infections, I will be one happy camper. I've already knocked some seriously obvious babs symptoms out the door, even with the proto. It's been slow though, probably slower than it is for people without proto.

So I'm feeling like I can still improve now (YAY!). My progress with bart was faster last year when I cut the fat/meat. I just didn't keep it up long enough to kill it. Imagine how fast we can do this by lowering our fat and cutting out and/or eliminating arginine (animal products, nuts)!

I know we are all different, and proto shows up and reacts differently with everyone which is probably why people miss it. It's stealthly hidden, yet makes enough biofilm to make all my symptoms wax a wane. Parasite treatment has helped kick it down some too, IMO.

As far as diet goes, I'm going back to eating a lower fat/meat diet, lots of veggies and gluten free grains, and cooking without oils. I can handle a few soaked nuts, but cannot tolerate nut butters (feel worse). Beef makes me feel bad too (even low fat). No issues with avocados (thank god). I don't know why since they are loaded with fat though. Perhaps balance is key.

I just want to tell everyone who has unrelenting symptoms that come and go (with lyme and all the co infections), to try low fat, and low to no arginine. And as far as tests go, tests are just tests. They are fallible. You can just try eating the Dr. F way and if you notice some things start to improve, bingo, you've figured it out!

[ 07-20-2013, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: Catgirl ]

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GretaM
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Hi all,
Very interesting thread! Thanks for all the brainstorming-awesome ideas and tips!

Just a question regarding coconut oil...

Does anyone know if, because it is metabolised differently and goes directly to energy, without being processed like other fats, does in necessarily contribute to overall "fat" amount each day?

Also, I am type O, and have a hard time digesting grains and beans.
On the rare occasion I eat them, I soak them for 24 hours in an acidic medium before cooking... I think nuts can be soaked in this way also.
Has anyone tried this with nuts?

I'm not doing particularily low fat.. My fat comes from an avocado daily, tablespoon of pumpkin seed butter (blast those parasites), coconut oil and
Whole milk in my coffee. (a dirty habit, haha-just can't drink it black)

And I agree with the fruit... Any fruit besides cherries and pomegranates make my stomach boil and bloat instantly. Fruit affects me so much, I sometimes imagine making the sign of a cross towards it... Haha

Thanks for sharing your experiences, all. [Smile]

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hadlyme
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No oils, nuts or avocado's on the low fat. That includes coconut oil.
The arginine thing isn't as big of an issue anymore per dr.
I don't do a super low fat diet anymore, but do watch that I stay away from high fat meals and foods.
Yes, we can feel better from eating lower fat. And, Catgirl, thanks for revisiting this thread and the low fat! Great news!
There are many protozoans being found, so if you don't have this one, you might have another one.
Hopefully more news on this will be out in the months to come.

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Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again!

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Catgirl
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Thanks Hadlyme and my pleasure (revisiting thread)! That is great to know about the arginine too!

When I cut back last year, my diet wasn't super low fat, I just cut back, and it helped. I re read Dr. F's interview last night. He said that he's pretty sure people have different strains of this organism. I guess that would explain the different symptoms and varying degrees of tolerable amounts of fat that people can handle (balance).

If only people could wrap their heads around this. Maybe they don't want to admit it because they don't want to change their diets (that was me originally). The diet I did last year was not that restrictive. I slacked the past few months and had bacon on the weekends, chips, pizza, oils, nut butters. This is where proto grew.

I guess for some it's similar to diabetics who won't change their diets. Maybe some fear in there too. People are too addicted to food, IMO. Yeast can also make them do this. I didn't think I could do this diet a year ago. I just convinced myself of that until I read your and Nefferdun's posts--Michael's too. I also thought I couldn't do it because I had MASSIVE yeast, and I'm thin thanks to lyme and company. It wasn't the case though. I just ate more of the right kinds of food.

This is not a death sentence, it's freedom to know the answers. Knowledge is power. Lyme and all of my co infections, parasites and heavy metals are the issues at hand for me. Eating low fat so I actually have the opportunity to kill them off/knock them back is so obvious to me now. I've found the key to unlock the door and it's a major step in the right direction.

Best wishes to everyone, and cut the fat!

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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GretaM
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Catgirl you're right... trial and error is the best way. Try something at 100% and see how one feels.

I do want to feel better, so ditching avocados should be a worthy trade for feeling good. [Smile]

Coconut oil will be easy. Whole milk and coffee can both go. Pumpkin seed butter can stay-1 TBSP=9 grams of fat and is anti-parasitic.

OK, I'll jump into the pool... [Smile]

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nefferdun
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It was interesting reading through this thread again. It has been16 months since I began the low fat diet and I am doing well. I am glad there are other, like you Catgirl, that are willing to give it a try.

I was off stromectol (ivermectin) for about 6 months. I took it every now and then when I felt symptoms emerging again but overall I was not using any drugs except LDN.

I became slack with the diet and taking my methyl cycle supplements and started getting some symptoms back. It wasn't serious but it could become serious, so I am trying to be more consistent.

I am still not taking the supplements twice a day. I can't believe how forgetful I am - or maybe I am just tired of pill popping. I am doing fairly well with the diet except I have developed a mania for homemade low fat frozen yogurt. One cup has 3 grams of fat but I often eat the whole thing with the puppy's help!

So I had to re-start the stromectol but I only take it 2-3 times a week. I am doing very poorly as far as having a schedule or plan for anything. I just take it when I think about it. If I feel fine, I don't think about it.

The symptoms I have are mild stiffness in the morning. Most of the symptoms I had before I don't have now - they were extreme fatigue, inability to concentrate, stabbing nerve pain, nasal congestion. . . I am getting some headaches too.

When I noticed it was coming back I was getting a hoarse voice and having some anxiety when I rode my horse. These things would be so easy to dismiss especially at my age. What 66 year old person does not have morning stiffness? Well, I didn't a month ago so I am not allowing it to become my new normal.

If I just stuck to the plan, I could probably live to a ripe old age and not be taking drugs to stay alive.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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Catgirl
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I'm sorry Greta, my response really wasn't meant for you, as I saw you were new on this board. It was primarily meant for people who haven't made much progress and/or people who haven't given the low fat diet a shot. You may not even have proto.

Although Dr. F. said he has found it profoundly in everyone with auto immune diseases, which includes CFS patients. CFS is a nice name for lyme, IMO. That tells me a lot of people have it. And if they don't have it, they could still get it in the future. He found it in mosquitoes, although he's not sure it's transmissible from them, yet.

That is awesome you are giving the diet a try! It's easy to do, and the best way to find out, IMO.

I am type O too. I take lots of digestive enzymes to help with digestion. I also soak beans for 48 hrs (much better, less gas).

Best wishes to you!

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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Catgirl
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Nefferdun, I am happy to hear that you are doing well. :) I noticed it too the other night with a hoarse voice. I just forgot it was a symptom.

Have you tried humaworm yet? I've noticed that it makes me feel better just like iver does. I take it and salt/c the same day.

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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hadlyme
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Love what you said Catgirl! (It's not a death sentence thing!)

I don't do that extra low fat anymore.. and Neff... I think you deserve the yogurt! You've been so faithful with all the other aspects!

I'm still on zith, malarone, diflucan, b12. I'll be traveling back to AZ in a few weeks.... keeping tabs on anything new from Dr F!

This way of eating doesn't cost anything extra. I don't know why people don't want to try it. It's not like it's costing thousands in travel or seeing llmds out of pocket. It's just eating whole foods.

Some people do herx on the diet at first... so anyone trying it, please be aware that you might feel worse before better.

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Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again!

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Catgirl
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Thanks Hadlyme! I'm glad to hear you no longer have to do the extra low fat anymore. And I agree, Neff deserves the yogurt. [Smile]

I forgot to ask you about arginine not being that big of a deal anymore. So do people who have an issue with it just up their lysine?

That's great you're going to see the man. Please let us know if there is any new info, and have a great trip!

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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faithful777
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Eating low fat foods means you are eating lots of fake foods and additives. If you need to cut back calories, then figure out what you should be eating daily and cut back 2-300 calories below that number.

Eat whole good fats but just watch your consumption. Your body will thank you for not eating all those things you can't pronounce.

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Faithful

Just sharing my experience, I am not a doctor.

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Catgirl
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quote:
Originally posted by faithful777:
Eating low fat foods means you are eating lots of fake foods and additives. If you need to cut back calories, then figure out what you should be eating daily and cut back 2-300 calories below that number.

?? Faithful, this thread is about lowering fat for protomyxzoa, not weight.

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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nefferdun
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Yes, it has nothing to do with weight and it sure isn't fake food we are tailing about. This is the most healthy diet I have ever been on. I look and feel like my old self.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. So before you question the health aspect of not eating fat, here is a picture of me I took a few days ago. I am 66 years old. I have more wrinkles than you can see in this shot but I don't dye my hair or wear make up.

http://s412.photobucket.com/user/nefferdun/media/Me2.jpg.html


Even my husband who smoked for 30 years looks younger and his cholesterol is normal for the first time in years. We are both down to our ideal weight without trying. In fact, I eat all I want and I eat a LOT!

We are getting enormous amounts of good food instead of fat. Fat is empty calories. We supplement phosphytidylcholine every day and that is the most essential fatty acid. The processed oil you use for frying is highly inflammatory, not good for you at all.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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Catgirl
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Nice pic Nefferdun (you definitely don't look 66)!

Phosphytidylcholine is a good idea.

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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