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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Garlic vs Allicin

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Author Topic: Garlic vs Allicin
BGearhead
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Hi

Im taking 1000mg of orderless garlic soft-gel.
Is this going to be effective?

Im thinking it does have Allicin...as it states on the bottle.

Does the dose need to be doubled or tripled?

ve noticed Allicin is available..but at a high cost.

Garlic wont interfere with GSE will it?

Thanks

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Keebler
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Q: Garlic vs Allicin

I would add Allitridi to that comparison, too.

See Zhang's links below for a good explanation. His detail about Allitridi is excellent.

We need both, IMO, as they do different things, so to speak. But Allicin is the real heavy hitter that is just not high enough in just regular garlic.


Q: Odorless?

Odorless is not advised if you want this to really work for you. It won't hurt you and may offer some very basic support but it's not going to be antimicrobial in the degree that is required.

Details below, and in the links. The authors cited explain it better than I can.

Q: Garlic wont interfere with GSE will it?

No, it will not, as far as I know but best to consult with a LL naturpathic doctor, a LL acupuncturist or one similar education.

A: Does the dose need to be doubled or tripled?

No. Never increase dose without a professional's advice for your body. Still, it will not matter with odorless. It's just not going to work as well as the real.

Too much garlic (as in a supplement) can damage the ears. Be careful. For some, even lower doses can increase or cause tinnitus, as can aspirin. Both contain salicylic acid.

Start slow and low.

Odorless garlic may still have some helpful properties, in general, but IMO, it's not at all suited for those with lyme.

Q: Cost.

You get what you pay for. One capsule of the best is far better than a handful of an ineffective type.

Softshell: That means it had to get hot to be made into the soft gel caps. That can undermine the quality of the product.

From my file notes:

==============================

Odorless does NOT contain what we need most.

Best brands:

BioPure freezed dried garlic (Dr. K suggests)

and

Hepapro (as in Zhang) - links following soon
-

Not everyone can process garlic or other sulfur-containing foods. Those with Methylation or MTHFR metabolism issues might need to check on this.

Those terms can be searched via the web (especially at the site for Amy Yasko) and here at LN for past posts.

Even for those who do just fine with garlic, raw garlic cloves can burn. Oh, they can be very helpful and I think it's good to take one or two garlic cloves a day, in addition to concentrated allicin or Allitridi capsules.

However, IF there is burning, back off. Or take in the middle of a good meal. Or just stick with capsules that dissolve further down the digestive tract.

For those who are sensitive to the oil in garlic: Garlic burns in the mouth, throat or stomach can be serious so just don't push it if your body sounds even a faint alarm.

Some who write about garlic caution no more than 2 cloves a day. Cloves are the smaller, almond-like pieces of the fuller bulb.

Allicin might be described as "garlic extract" and is generally stronger.

=====================================

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Allicin

PubMed Search of medical abstracts

PubMed search of medical literature:

Allicin � 407 abstracts

Allitridi � 199 abstracts

Garlic � 3784 abstracts

Allicin, biofilm � 5 abstracts

Garlic, biofilm � 12 abstracts


http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Garlic

Amazon Book Search: Garlic

============================================

Hepapro & BioPure are the top two brands, IMO. I prefer Hepapro and feel that this is much stronger for me. Others feel that about the BioPure.

Neither is inexpensive. However, both are very reputable brands. There may be other options just be very careful to learn all about who is managing all phases of plant growing, harvest, processing, etc.

Organic is a good certification, however, if you are certain of the person who oversees quality control and can learn more about them, it's important to know that good growing practices may not necessarily be "certified" organic.

If unsure of source and quality control it is always best to go with certified organic, then.

======================================

http://www.sinomedresearch.org/ZCprotocols/formulas/Allicin.htm

Sinomed Research site -- Passwords: clinic; clinic

Hepapro Allicin - Purified allitridi, the precursor of allicin.

This is intended as part of a protocol, detail at link above. Book link below


http://www.hepapro.com/

Hepapro - then click onto their product list to find:


Allicin Capsules - every capsule contains 20mg of allitridi.

[Ask if your weight is not in �ideal� range as the dose may need to be altered up or down.]


http://tinyurl.com/5drx94

Book: Lyme Disease and Modern Chinese Medicine

==========================

http://www.biopureeurope.com/organic-freeze-dried-garlic.html

BioPure - Organic Freeze Dried Garlic

(Free of binders and filling agents)

Ingredients: Certified raw organic Garlic. Aliin content: 26,800 ppm.- 400 mg each

==========================

http://www.allimax.us/products.php

Allimax

==========================

http://www.lymebook.com/steven-harris

Sample Chapter from the book:

INSIGHTS INTO LYME DISEASE TREATMENT - by Connie Strasheim

Excerpt -- � way down page:

. . . Garlic is beneficial for those who don�t have trouble metabolizing sulfur-containing foods. . . .
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[ 11-21-2013, 03:24 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Keebler
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When considering herbal / nutritional / adjunct methods:

if at all possible - because each person & each case is different - it's best to consult with an ILADS-educated LL (lyme literate) doctor who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -

- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present.

Many LL NDs incorporate antibiotics (depending upon the licensing laws in their state). Some LLMDs and LL NDs have good working relationships.

When possible, it's great to have both a LLMD and LL ND and even better when they have a long-standing professional relationship.

-----------------------

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/2/13964

How to find an ILADS-educated LL:

N.D. (Naturopathic Doctor);

L.Ac. (Acupuncturist);

D.Ay. (Doctor of Ayurvedic Medicine);

D.O.M. (Doctor of Oriental Medicine);

Integrative / Holistic M.D., etc. (Be aware that those in this category can have various levels of formal herbal &/or nutritional education, perhaps even just a short course. Do ask first.)

Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:

Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures from all corners of medicine;

knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.

You can compare and contrast many approaches.

BASIC HERBAL EDUCATIONAL & SAFETY links, etc.
-

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BGearhead
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Thanks for the reply.

So my new...old symptoms are not from garlic or GSE then?

Old symptoms have came back since Ive started taking these two.
Swollen Glands and sick feeling(fatigue)
Night sweats
annoying head pain just got worse also.

I havent felt these for over a year...not sure if its good or bad....definitely feels bad.

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Keebler
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Not sure how the leap was made to determine the supplement could not cause symptoms or reactions.

The supplements you are taking now could certainly cause the symptoms you describe. That they have come back after starting them seems to point to a pretty clear link.

Now, it could be a herx or a reaction.

I'd stop to see. If you add them back, do so separately so you can best determine how each affects you.

Whichever doctor you are working with should be able to guide you.

What is your herxheimer support and liver support plan? That may need improvement.

Still, you just might not be able to take those supplements if you get a reaction. There are other things to consider.

I could never tolerate GSE, myself. It can cause some profound candida die-off reactions and also some herxheimer reactions for those with lyme.

Even if not that, it can just be too strong for some folks.

If garlic causes you problems, you may need to be evaluated for MTHFR / methylation differences.


http://www.dramyyasko.com/

Amy Yasko


http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/gene/MTHFR

MTHFR Gene


http://autismnti.com/images/Methylation_Pathway_Explained.pdf

The Methylation Pathway Explained
-

[ 06-08-2016, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Keebler
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manybites just posted this excellent link:

http://www.treatlyme.net/articles/2012/1/12/herxheimer-die-off-reaction-inflammation-run-amok.html

Herxheimer Die-Off Reaction: Inflammation Run Amok

Text and 10 minute video clip

====================

Other detail here:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=030792;p=0

LIVER LINKS
-

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Groovy2again
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Bump
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Carmen
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Hi Keebler,

Im receiving some biopure freeze dried garlic in the mail tomorrow. Do you know what the effective dosage is suppose to be? I can tolerate a lot of garlic so no issue there.

thanks

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Keebler
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I'm more familiar with Hepapro's allicin, though have used BioPure's from my regular ND.

I cannot speak to span of dosage on that, though you might want to consult Dr. K's writings / website on the matter - or the Biopure site links.

If you've not taken it in a while, still best to start slow and with all your personal experience with herbs and the like you should be able to gauge how to increase.

As I recall with garlic / allicin, any "speediness" or irritation can mean it's a bit too fast. Tinnitis increases can also mean too much, too soon (although the salycilates in garlic can trigger tinnitus even at an "okay" dose for those who may be sensitive to that - and it may NOT be "okay" for those folks' ears, then).

Since garlic / allicin is a "hot" "yang" and "stimulating" plant, you might want to take a bit lower dose at night, though or substitute for a cool, less stimulating herb like Coptis at night if insomnia is an issue.

You still want around the clock coverage with anti-spirochetal action, however that is to be achieved.
-

[ 01-13-2014, 04:08 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Carmen
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Thanks Keebler... am continuing on my antiseptics also.
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Keebler
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Garlic / allicin can cause tinnitus for some people. This could be due to salicylates that occur naturally in it.

If one does okay with salicylates and still experiences tinnitus, keep in mind that garlic is categorized as a "warm / hot" "yang" herb - with stimulating properties.

Tinnitus can also be due to one's magnesium deficiency or other issues.


Usually, all herbal formula are well balanced between ingredients that are "yin / cool" herbs and "yang / hot" herbs. So it may be that the formula needs some balancing to be individualized.

Without this balance, there can be strain on the inner ear system and also the brain's sensory center can be over-stimulated. Kudzu is just one herb that is helpful to calm the stimulation. A LL ND would know of others.

Good to keep in mind that, for various reasons, some body types just do better than others with just about any plant substance, whether as food or in a medicinal formula.

There are always other approaches and a LL ND would be best to be consulted as to the various choices. Another one to consider as part of a plan:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=121034;p=0

BERBERINE – LINKS SET
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[ 06-23-2016, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Keebler
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http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=059923;p=0

Topic: Garlic/Allicin an effective herbal antibiotic?

28 October, 2007 - Much detail here


Just stumbled upon this. For original study, click onto the footnote / citation numbers.

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/garlic-beats-drug-detoxifying-lead-safely-body-1

Garlic Beats Drug in Detoxifying Lead Safely From Body . . . 2012 -2013


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=garlic%2C+lead

PubMed search:

Garlic, lead - 119 abstracts
garlic, heavy metals - 118
garlic, mercury - 16

allicin, heavy metals - 8
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[ 10-12-2016, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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bluelyme
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I wonder if garlic tinnitus has to do with its effectiveness on bartonella or interaction with transulferation pathway. .just ideas...

--------------------
Blue

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