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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Internal Scar Tissue After Gallbladder Removal

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Author Topic: Internal Scar Tissue After Gallbladder Removal
Hambone
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I had my gallbladder removed 8 weeks ago ( Billiary Dyskinesia and HIDA scan EF rate of 5% ).

My surgeon said he spent the first 20-25 minutes of getting in there just cauterizing scar tissue around it before he could even see it to cut it out.

I have had HORRIBLE pain ever since surgery. Hurts even worse than it did before surgery. But I can also feel that I am LOADED with scar tissue all across my upper abdomen and the incision sites. Pretty much 75% of my entire abdomen, I feel like it is sticky, pulling, tugging....such a distinct feeling. I feel like scar tissue is sticking all of my organs together and has gone CRAZY! And it's painful.

I see my GI doc Monday about this. I can't go on this way. [bow]

BUT, if they do surgery again to remove scar tissue, won't it just come right back as a result of the second surgery?

Is there a natural way to get rid of internal scar tissue?


I was thinking of Serrapeptase, but it thins the blood and I already have an issue with too thin blood.

I'm in deep doo doo. I CANNOT live the rest of my life like this. No way!


Any advice? Suggestions? Stories?

Thanks

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amyb
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Oh so sorry [Frown]

I'm curious to see how this goes- my sister had Lyme ended up getting gallbladder removed to and has always has scarring issues

She is in lots of pain too

--------------------
Good friends are like stars... You don't always see them, but you know they are always there!!!

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poppy
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Have heard of using vitamin K for surface scars, but not sure if this would work internally. You might google vitamin k and scar tissue as there are some other things mentioned in the items that come up from this search.
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Rumigirl
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Find someone who does Visceral Manipulation and get a series of treatments. Go to: Upledger Institute website and look for referrals in your area.

It's a osteopathic technique, originated by a French osteopath, Jean Pierre Baralle (sp?). But most osteopaths likely don't do it, massage therapists, etc. who have been trained in this technique do it.

It would be worth even traveling a distance for it, even if you had to stay over for several treatments.

In the meantime, gentle yoga type stretching of the abdominal area and breathing into it would help---but gentle, obviously!

Don't even consider surgery IMO for the reason you mentioned: it will only create more scar tissue!!

PS I had something similar, although not as severe, and not something that the surgeon had to wrestle with. I did bodywork on myself (having been a professional for decades) and stretched

and breathed into it over quite a period of time, and now it is better. But I, too, at first felt I couldn't handle the pain---and not just from the surgery.

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Keebler
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-
Ditto to Rumigirl's suggestion for

Visceral Manipulation and get a series of treatments. Go to: Upledger Institute website to find a practitioner near you.
-

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Keebler
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-
www.naturalpedia.com/salvia_root.html

Salvia miltiorrhiza (DanShen or Dan Shen)

. . .salvia miltiorrhiza root (be sure that second word matches as not all salvia is the same)

has been shown to inhibit fibrosis (formation of scar tissue) in animal wound-healing models . . . .

[I have more links and will be back with those later.]
-

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Lymetoo
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Do you have endometriosis??

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Keebler
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-
http://oneearthherbs.squarespace.com/important-herbs/salvia-root-salvia-miltiorrhiza.html

SALVIA m. - From The One Earth Herbal Sourcebook

------------------
Not all about kidney here, also other good detail:

http://www.itmonline.org/arts/salviarenal.htm

THE USE OF SALVIA (miltiorrhiza) FOR PATIENTS WITH RENAL FAILURE

by Subhuti Dharmananda, Ph.D.

-----------------

PubMed Search of Medical Literature

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=salvia%20miltiorrhiza

Salvia miltiorrhiza - 1380 abstracts

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=salvia%20miltiorrhiza%2C%20scarring

Salvia miltiorrhiza, scarring - 9 abstracts

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=salvia%20miltiorrhiza%2C%20surgery%20recovery

Salvia miltiorrhiza, surgery recovery - 9

Also search: Dan Shen or Danshen

Naturopathic doctors and acupuncturists will know all about this. Acupuncture might also be very helpful.

Someone trained in this area or in visceral manipulation may be able to show you some self-massage techniques to do daily, too.
-

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GiGi
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Look into Neural Therapy. Here are a couple of links. Dr. K. treats all scars before he does anything else when indicated. I had lots of Neural Therapy into any, even the smallest scar, the navel, all surgical prodecures while treating Lyme.

Alternative Medicine: The Definitive Guide - Page 387 - Google Books Resultbooks.google.com/books?isbn=1587611414
Larry Trivieri, John W. Anderson, Burton Goldberg Group - 2002 - Health & Fitness - 1233 pages
Thc gallbladder scars were injected with neural therapy formula. ... All cells in the
body can be regarded as organisms, according to Dr K, ...
Scar tissue can actually produce a measurable electrical charge ol up to l.S volts.Effective Treatment of Chronic Pain by the Integration of Neural ...www.journalofprolotherapy.com/.../effective-treatment-of-chronic-p...Cached
You +1'd this publicly. Undo
by GR Harris - 2011
Mar 14, 2012 Neural Therapy involves the injection of local anesthetics into scars, ... The autonomic (involuntary) portion of the nervous system regulates internal body functions such .... An interference field has also been defined as local tissue irritation ..... Dr K Neural Therapy presentation at Neural Therapy ...

Scars can be major interference fields and need to be treated.

Take care.

** name of LLMD removed **

[ 08-26-2012, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: Lymetoo ]

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Rumigirl
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Good thinking, Lymetoo (I hope she doesn't, but why would there be so much scar tissue there BEFORE the cholecystectomy??).

Good point, Gigi, too. Scars can be treated via acupuncture as well as neural therapy.

Yeah, but why was there so much scar tissue already . . that bears investigation to be sure.

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Keebler
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-
For answers as to the cause, just Google:

gallbladder scarring

Just one of several search results:

http://www.umm.edu/patiented/articles/what_symptoms_of_gallstones_gallbladder_disease_000010_2.htm

Excerpt:

. . . Chronic gallbladder disease (chronic cholecystitis) involves gallstones and mild inflammation. In such cases the gallbladder may become scarred and stiff. . . .
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hopeful4
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In addition to above suggestions, find a skilled acupuncturist. Acupuncture can be helpful for treating the scar tissue, and for the pain.

Best wishes.

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Razzle
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Essential oil of Myrrh can be taken internally and can help dissolve scar tissue. It is a very gentle and safe oil.

I've taken it myself internally (1-2 drops/day) to help heal my gut when I had a partial bowel obstruction and do believe it helped.

BTW, I know how you feel to some extent... I have scar tissue on my lung from a pleural effusion, and rapid breathing or deep inhalation cause a pulling and tearing pain in my chest...very disconcerting and painful.

--------------------
-Razzle
Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs.

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Hambone
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quote:
Originally posted by Lymetoo:
Do you have endometriosis??

I don't know. Quite possible.
How do you know for sure...is the only way to find out for sure through a laparascopy? The doc who did my gallbladder surgery didn't say anything other than my gall was covered in scar tissue.


Thank you everybody for your replies. Much appreciated. I will look into your suggestions.

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Hambone
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quote:
Originally posted by Rumigirl:
Good thinking, Lymetoo (I hope she doesn't, but why would there be so much scar tissue there BEFORE the cholecystectomy??).

Good point, Gigi, too. Scars can be treated via acupuncture as well as neural therapy.

Yeah, but why was there so much scar tissue already . . that bears investigation to be sure.

I had lots of accupuncture for my gallbladder before I had it out, trying to save it. Accupuncture DID help the pain, but results never lasted more than a day.

I just assumed that my gallbladder was scarred so badly because doc said it was inflamed. Now I wonder if it became inflamed because of scar tissue? Possibly from endo?

Oh Lord. Just shoot me now. [shake]

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Lymetoo
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I would contact the surgeon and ask if there is any need for a laparoscopy. Ask if he thinks there is scar tissue elsewhere.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Hambone
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quote:
Originally posted by Lymetoo:
I would contact the surgeon and ask if there is any need for a laparoscopy. Ask if he thinks there is scar tissue elsewhere.

I saw him again at 3 weeks post op and asked. I told him I was still in pain, and asked him about the possibility of scar tissue forming where the gall was since there was so much when he went in. He said, "Nahhhh" and told me my incisions healed great, and surgically I was fine....and referred me back to my GI for the ongoing pain. I see the GI tomorrow, and I bet he's going to refer me back to the surgeon. [dizzy]

This is the way it's been since the first day I got sick over seven years ago. Everybody pushes me off to the next person. I am as nice as anyone could ever be, way too nice sometimes so I get run over. It's not like I'm some mean grouchy cranky ogre that makes them not want to deal with me. But for some reason they all just don't seem interested at all in trying to help..and I end up taking it personal and wonder what I did wrong. They told me for years that they couldn't find any cause of my upper ab pain and that I had to learn to live with it..offered antidepressants...and surprise surprise my gall was a hot mess and loaded with scar tissue the entire time they were telling me nothing was wrong. Can't help but wonder what the heck else they've missed.

Sorry for the rant. I just feel like I'm stuck in a nightmare and can't wake up, or I've been on Candid Camera this entire time.

[bow] Worn to a nub.

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Dogsandcats
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I had pelvic pain. In 2009 right after I got bit. Dr finally went in and because of scar tissues my bowels were adhered to the abdomen. He put in lots of goopy stuff so it would not re adhere

Two months later, still pain. He went back in and everything
had re adhered-my bowels had turned and twisted back onto the wall in two months This time he used $ 1000 sheets of stuff to keep it from returning.

I don't have the scar tissue pain anymore-it was like a bad pulling pain- but was left with searing
pelvic pain-24/7.

I always wonder if someone left a scalpel in there..eeyyuu

So the moral of my rant is:

Scar tissue makes more scar tissue ( in mine anyway)

The pain that was distinctive to me was scar tissue. I had to find a doc who would listen and go in since scar tissue
doesn't show up on MRI or Xrays

The pain is real. Maybe if they went in and put the protective sheets in it would help you.

No one knows your body more than you. Most docs would not have gone back in to look in just two months. He really believed me the second time. Keep looking.

I am sorry you are going thru this.

--------------------
God will prepare everything for our perfect happiness in heaven, and if it takes my dog being there, I believe he'll be there.

Billy Graham

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Hambone
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Well, I get another endoscopy next Wednesday.

Have to do a 24 hour urine test for Porphyria.


I asked about scar tissue and he said if that's what it is, I'm up the creek because it can't be fixed.


I asked about Sphincter of Oddi dysfunction. He said, "Sounds like you've been on the internet." He said it's a possibility..then promptly blew it off and changed the subject.


He said he was going to check for something very way out there ( the porphyria ), and I said please do because whatever I have is something way out there and freaky. Then he said, "Or it will be something very easy we can fix." To which I replied as nicely as I could, "Then why haven't y'all found it yet if it's easy?" This was the first time in my whole life I snapped back at a doctor. [tsk]


Questions:

~ He prescribed Elavil and said it can help with pain. Anybody else take that?


~ Why am I constantly being poo poo'd/ denied an MRI of my abdomen? That is something I've never had after all these years and every single time I ask or mention it, the answer is no. I have medical insurance and always pay my bills, so why am I always denied this? I've had two on my brain with no hassle....but when I ask for one for my abdomen you'd think I was asking for a million dollars.

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Lymetoo
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Maybe an MRI would not show anything, like Dogs said.

I hear ya on being handed from one to another. The reason I think it happens: They have no clue what to do with you.

Perhaps see an OB-GYN.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Carol in PA
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quote:
Originally posted by Hambone:
I asked about scar tissue and he said if that's what it is, I'm up the creek because it can't be fixed.

~ He prescribed Elavil and said it can help with pain. Anybody else take that?


Elavil does help some people with pain.
Google for "elavil for pain" to find out more.


Look into systemic enzymes, which can help reduce internal scar tissue.


How Systemic Enzymes Work
http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james174.htm

Quote:
The proteolytic enzymes used in enzyme therapy dissolve fibrin.
When strong proteolytic enzymes are in an enzyme preparation, they can be powerful enough in their action to actually gradually digest scar tissue away.
This takes time to occur, of course, but eventually all the scar tissue may disappear.

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Hambone
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quote:
Originally posted by Lymetoo:


Perhaps see an OB-GYN.

My long time 2 decade OB-GYN passed me off to the GI doc......LOL. [bonk]


But I will go back after I get these tests the GI is doing...if he can't find anything.

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