LymeNet Home LymeNet Home Page LymeNet Flash Discussion LymeNet Support Group Database LymeNet Literature Library LymeNet Legal Resources LymeNet Medical & Scientific Abstract Database LymeNet Newsletter Home Page LymeNet Recommended Books LymeNet Tick Pictures Search The LymeNet Site LymeNet Links LymeNet Frequently Asked Questions About The Lyme Disease Network LymeNet Menu

LymeNet on Facebook

LymeNet on Twitter




The Lyme Disease Network receives a commission from Amazon.com for each purchase originating from this site.

When purchasing from Amazon.com, please
click here first.

Thank you.

LymeNet Flash Discussion
Dedicated to the Bachmann Family

LymeNet needs your help:
LymeNet 2020 fund drive


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations.

LymeNet Flash Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Hypercoagulation. Does anyone else have this?

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Hypercoagulation. Does anyone else have this?
Judie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 38323

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Judie     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi,

I was diagnosed is hypercoagulation.

Just curious as to how it effected others.

I was wondering what other people's experience is with this.

Did you treat for this before the infections?

Did more infections show up after treatment because it was hiding other infections?

Did you find treatment helpful and how did you treat?

Thanks

Posts: 2839 | From California | Registered: Jul 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lymetoo
Moderator
Member # 743

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lymetoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
MANY MANY Lyme patients have this; they just don't know it.

I treated for it during Lyme treatment. I took heparin shots, then heparin troches. The heparin helped with brain fog, energy and pain.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

Posts: 94840 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Keebler     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
-
Yeah, nearly everyone who has lyme, or has had lyme for any amount of time. Goes hand in hand.

A good LLMD will treat alongside lyme, together.

I never got "proper" treatment with a LLMD (and still battle) but, for me, allicin helps tremendously in many ways. One of which is that it can address this "sticky blood" tendency.

There are other herbs that can help, too.

Good LLMD and good LL NDs (naturopathic doctors) know all about how to help the "sticky blood" (as I call it).

Allicin is just the first one that comes to mind.

Prickly Ash Bark is another. This chapter is NOT about lyme, but just a basic look:


http://oneearthherbs.squarespace.com/important-herbs/prickly-ash-bark-zanthoxylum-species.html

Prickly Ash Bark (Tillotson, et.al.)
-

Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lymetoo
Moderator
Member # 743

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lymetoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Boluoke is used a lot. (lumbrokinase)

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

Posts: 94840 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Judie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 38323

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Judie     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Wow, this is so interesting. Thanks, I'm so glad I'm not alone in this.
Posts: 2839 | From California | Registered: Jul 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
pamoisondelune
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11846

Icon 1 posted      Profile for pamoisondelune     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I take high-dose nattokinase. I also have at least one gene for blood clots. The nattokinase keeps me symptom free.

If i get a symptom (any symptom in the lower leg) i just take a little more nattokinase.

Posts: 1226 | From USA | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Carol in PA
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5338

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Carol in PA     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Here are two links about hypercoagulation.


http://drcharlescrist.net/Borreliosis/Hypercoagulation/

Hypercoagulation (Thickened Blood)
http://www.diagnose-me.com/symptoms-of/hypercoagulation-thickened-blood.html


When I realized that my headaches and pain were symptoms of hypercoagulation, I wanted to find something to reduce it.

After reading about systemic enzymes, I decided to try them.
First I took Serrapeptase, but did not notice a reduction in my symptoms.
Hah, later I realized that I should have increased the dose.

When I got around to Wobenzym, I had done more reading, and decided to ramp up to a larger dose.
Less than two weeks later, I woke up one day without the usual splitting headache -- it worked!


I've been on Wobenzym for several years now.
Although it is expensive, the alternative is to go back to all that pain.


How systemic enzymes work
http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james174.htm

Posts: 6938 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
jwall
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 22999

Icon 1 posted      Profile for jwall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
What brand wobenzym? Is it better than nattokinase and lumbrokinase?

I've always taken nattokinase, but my Dr. mentioned lumbrokinase today? I don't which brand to get.

Posts: 618 | From NC | Registered: Oct 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397

Icon 1 posted      Profile for sparkle7     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
FYI -

http://www.drlam.com/opinion/blood_thinners_and_nutritional_supplement.asp

Blood Thinners and Nutritional Supplement

Some natural substances have blood-thinning properties. A possible risk exists when taking such a product while also taking Coumarins (coumadin-like substances), salicylates (aspirin-like substances) and anti-platelets (substances that prevent blood cells from clumping together) as these are all considered blood thinners. Too much blood thinning can lead to excessive bleeding.

Herbs containing coumadin: angelica root, arnica flower,anise, asafoetida,celery,chamomile,fenugreek,horse chestnut,licorice root,lovage root,parsley,passionflower herb,quassia. red clover
rue,sweet clover

Herbs thought to contain salicylates: Meadowsweet,poplar,willow bark

Herbs with Anti-platelet properties: bromelain,clove,onion, and turmeric

-----

http://buhnerhealinglyme.com/herbs/red-root-and-hypercoagulation/

Dear Stephen,

Hope this finds you well. In your book you recommend red root as one of the adjunct therapies.

Many, if not most, lymies suffer from hypercoagulation, a condition in which the spirochetes coat the blood vessels with fibrin, which effectively acts like a goo and keeps nutrients from getting to the cells, whilst thickening the blood so that it clots too easily.

Red root encourages blood clottingand most lymies actually need blood thinners (in my humble understanding). What do you think about this?


Stephens response:

I have seen a few references to this and the issue is not well delineated, at least to me. I am not convinced about hypercoagulation and lyme, primarily because I can find no scientific papers acknowledging the condition at all.

Some of the research material I have seen actually indicates the opposite. So, I would really like to see some material, not from one or two lyme physicians but researchers, on the issue.

However, although red root does increase coagulation, in the doses I suggest it should not be a problem. Additionally, many of the herbsandrographis and cats claw for example, are reliable blood thinners that inhibit blood clotting. Knotweed also facilitates blood flow through other mechanisms.

These herbs are more than enough to counteract any clotting actions of red root and should easilyif hypercoagulation does indeed occurreverse that condition in the doses listed.

Stephen

----

Another opinion -

http://www.anapsid.org/cnd/diffdx/hypercoagulation.html

excerpt-

Bromelain (500-1000 mg daily). Several journal articles suggest that bromelain, a natural substance found in pineapples, enhances fibrinolysis. It may thus be useful in patients having high Lp(a) or high PAI-1 values as these block fibrinolysis. Bromelain is available over the counter in various digestive aids and supplements. It may be as useful in such patients as such clot-busting drugs as tPA.

Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Carol in PA
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5338

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Carol in PA     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by jwall:

What brand wobenzym?
Is it better than nattokinase and lumbrokinase?


Wobenzym is a blend of enzymes, and there are several other blends too.
I decided to try Wobenzym after reading several research studies about it.

Physicians in Europe prescribe it for their patients, but it seems that the U.S. doctors don't know much about systemic enzymes.
You can find info by googling for Wobenzym and inflammation, or pain, or arthritis, etc.


I have no idea how it compares with nattokinase or lumbrokinase.
I started off by taking Serrapeptase, which has been shown to thin mucous and clear up sinus infections.

You'll notice that chronic sinus problems are a frequent complaint among Lyme patients.
It turns out that Lyme patients have excess fibrin in their bloodstream, and this contributes to thick mucous and sinus infections.

Posts: 6938 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lymetoo
Moderator
Member # 743

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lymetoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Boluoke (lumbrokinase) is excellent. It does have research behind it.

Wobenzym is probably very good too.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

Posts: 94840 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
nefferdun
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20157

Icon 1 posted      Profile for nefferdun     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
One LLMD reported 90% of his patients had hypercoagulation. It makes it harder for medication to penetrate deeply into the tissue and to get toxins out. It means the cells receive less oxygen (borellia loves that) and contributes to brain fog. Biofilm causes hypercoagulation.

Boluoke is supposed to be the best natural form of blood thinner but it is expensive. Lumbrokinase is the same thing, just cheaper and not researched as well. They are both earth worm protein. I read if you take 2 capsules 3 times a day (on an empty stomach), it will thin your blood 10% in a month. Lactoferrin is helpful to prevent biofilm but it won't get rid of it.

Heparin is a drug you inject in your abdomen. It hurts and bruises. In fact, I still have bruises from injections I gave myself over 6 months ago and I don't know if they will ever go away. Heparin can also take calcium out of your bones. Pregnant women have gotten osteoporosis while taking it.

There are herbs that help increase circulation like Hawthorn, Jiaogulan and cayenne. I am taking Jiaogulan which has other benefits as well. I don't think these herbs actually thin the blood. Jiaogulan promotes nitric oxide which dilates the blood vessels.

Protomyxzoa is the worst biofilm producer and eating a low fat vegan diet is the best way to keep it under control. It multiplies 100 times faster with lipids and arginine.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
poppy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5355

Icon 1 posted      Profile for poppy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Was looking for info on enzymes, trying to figure out which one to use after seeing the high prices on some. A search brought up this thread. Still not sure what to get.

However, wanted to add to this thread because no one has mentioned the reason why lyme causes hypercoagulation. And that is because it is one of the body's defenses against infection. Slows down the spread of microbes. Of course, with chronic infection, then you get this full time which is not good.

Posts: 2888 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
nefferdun
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20157

Icon 1 posted      Profile for nefferdun     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
A lot of us have hyper coagulation because of methyl cycle mutations, making us the perfect storm for infections. The MTHFR/SHMT mutations cause platelet aggregation which can lead to cardiovascular disease; blood clots, stroke, heart attacks etc. MTHFR causes folate deficiency so it is probably a good idea to also take methyl folate or folinic acid (not folic acid).

Folate is supposed to contribute to the biofilm made by protomyxzoa but I take it anyway because I feel I need it for the mutations.

Protomyxzoa builds biofilm and most of us are testing positive for it. These pathogens are like the axis of evil. They work together to create the ideal hostile environment. The biofilm makes the blood sluggish, slows down circulation, makes it harder for medication to penetrate deeply into tissue, harder to detox waste out, lowers the body temperature and there is less oxygen (borellia loves this).

I don't believe you can get well until you address the underlying cause of hyper coagulation. You need to open the methyl cycle pathways and thin the blood. Boluoke is the best natural thinner but very expensive. Lumbrokinase is second. Jiaogulan and Hawthorn also help. Spice your food up with cayenne. As PR multiplies 100 faster with lipids and arginine, eat a low fat whole foods vegan diet.

The latest thing is liposomal phosphatidylcholine with EDTA. EDTA is used in blood banks to keep the blood from clotting. It breaks down biofilm by binding with magnesium and iron. It also chelates heavy metals.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MichaelTampa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 24868

Icon 1 posted      Profile for MichaelTampa     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I've been using:

Recht's Regulat
Serrapeptase
Cistus incanus tea
Detoxamin suppositories (contain EDTA)

I have also found salt baths (1 pound baking soda, 1 pound epsom salt, 2 pounds sea salt), very hot water for 15-25 minutes, then keep warm with blankets/hat for 15 minutes, really exposes the biofilm more for these things to do their job.

Posts: 1927 | From se usa | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
jlcd1
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 18138

Icon 1 posted      Profile for jlcd1     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I take lambrokinase. I've found the best prices at vitacost, and after the first day of taking it the headache in the back of my neck improved majorly.
Posts: 908 | From Albany | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
trimom
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 25843

Icon 1 posted      Profile for trimom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
How are you diagnosed with hypercoagulation? Is it one blood test or a bunch?
Posts: 120 | From MA | Registered: May 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Healing in Santa Cruz
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 7798

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Healing in Santa Cruz     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This is one of the first things my doc tested me for with Hemex labs. When I showed up positive for lyme and co. So glad he did.

I am so amazed at the docs, even LLMD's that don't have a clue about it [Frown]

Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Healing in Santa Cruz
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 7798

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Healing in Santa Cruz     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yes Blood,trimom.
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | LymeNet home page | Privacy Statement

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:

The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey
907 Pebble Creek Court, Pennington, NJ 08534 USA


| Flash Discussion | Support Groups | On-Line Library
Legal Resources | Medical Abstracts | Newsletter | Books
Pictures | Site Search | Links | Help/Questions
About LymeNet | Contact Us

© 1993-2020 The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
Use of the LymeNet Site is subject to Terms and Conditions.