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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » We need more support for the low fat vegan diet

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Author Topic: We need more support for the low fat vegan diet
nefferdun
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I know how hard it is to change what you are used to eating. Although the best diet to treat protomyxzoa has been proven to be vegan, I just can't completely give up egg whites and dairy, but what I have been able to eliminate has made such a huge difference. I am like a new person.

I can think more clearly, I have more energy, I feel very close to well and I am off antibiotics etc. I take LDN and methyl cycle supplements daily, and stromectol about every ten days or so. That is is. Last year I was a mess and I was very worried I would die from these infections because my tolerance to the drugs was wearing thin.

I don't want to stir up an argument. I am sure people will feel compelled to defend their diets, trying to make meat and fat consumption a necessity - it just isn't true. I don't want to hear about yeast or protein or B12.

For those with a more open mind, visit heartfixer.com and read about how animal consumption affects your body's ability to generate glutathione, nitric oxide and neurotransmitters when you have the CBS mutation (which 80% of us have).

The biofilm that is protecting the pathogens in your body thrives on fat. You need to break the biofilm down so the drugs you are taking can get to the pathogens. If you continue to eat fat, especially animal fat, you cannot take enough drugs to get well.

I took enough antibiotics and antimalarials drugs to cure a village of leprosy, malaria, TB, and just about everything else, but I was still sick. Why keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting different result. That is the definition of insanity.

There is a support topic on this forum for people doing Rife. No one interrupts it with long winded speeches about how they don't believe in rife. I wish we could have a support topic for people trying to do the low fat vegan diet. Even those of you that are not ready to attempt it, would be able to observe how others are responding to it. Is anyone interested?

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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lululymemom
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Nefferdun, you are one of the lucky people that gets it!! Thank you for having the courage to bring up this subject. I wish i could go completely vegan. Only vegetarian now. Ultimately my goal will be vegan. The benefits are undeniable.

--------------------
IGM 41 IND, 83-93+ IGG 31 IND,34 IND, 41++, 58+, 83-93 IND

31 Epitope test neg.

Bartonella henselae 1:100

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Catgirl
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I'm interested. We need a support group here for protomyxzoa. The fat and biofilm connection is a big one, IMO. As big as parasites.

People can do this diet even if they have yeast. I've battled yeast for quite some time. I've managed to eat carbs and a little fruit without major yeast issues if I take anti yeast stuff AND treat for parasites. Gotta treat the parasites.

Speaking of support (I could use some right about now). I completely understand your need to eat egg whites and dairy, Neff. I've gotten so thin eating low fat, some grains and lots of veggies. I feel better when I do this, but I have lost so much weight and good fat. I am so thin and freezing right now. My bones are starting to show.

I am allergic to so many foods. I think RMSF (lone star tick) did this to me. Although I'm over the RMSF, the allergies still remain. I have been eating some lean meat. I need something, especially since I'm also allergic to soy. I guess I just need to eat a lot more rice and beans. I eat them everyday, but it's apparently not enough.

I can't do dairy (allergic). I have just recently started to eat 2 or 3 nuts a day because I have absolutely no fat on me now--trying to find some balance. I don't feel horrible on 2 or 3, so hopefully this will help.

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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Keebler
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-
It's not so much about "getting it" as finding the right diet for YOU. It's fabulous to hear of the successes achieved.

Individuals can vary in how they can manage or succeed with this, though. For those new to this, it is important to note that it may not be "one size fits all" -- Some do well with vegan or vegetarian. Some do not.

Some do well with very low fat if that is what their body needs; Others may need much more good fat.

The biofilm / fat connection is not written in stone yet is one interesting - and promising - theory by one committed doctor. Now he may well be onto something - or just for some and not for others.

Just as the difference in thought about whether to avoid magnesium or not as its in biofilm but also required by our cells and often very deficient with lyme, IF we happen to be someone who requires more good fat, then, we need to so need to find another way to address the biofilm.

I did low-fat, nearly no fat, vegetarian for years. My body could not continue that. However, I know there are others out there who simply thrive on such a plan.

Some considerations [for newcomers] before anyone with a neurological condition starts low fat:

Fish oil and other good essential fatty acids can literally help to protect the myelin sheath around nerve fibers, thereby, helping with the brain, etc, especially for some with brain injury and seizure disorders.

It might be good to just be aware of what some of the top sources say about that - and why - and then gather thoughts from around the table, so to speak.

Often, if we know the reason behind someone's suggestion and we can't do that, we can at least circumvent the obstacles.

So, it is about what YOUR body needs - and how needs can change.

As for support with ideas, there are more and more "chef-authors" of: vegan / vegetarian; low fat.

Terry Wahls, MD, found that not only good oils but TONS of veggies and certain meats helped her recover from MS.

Although she uses good fats and meats / fish -- she also has fabulous VEGGIE RECIPIES in her book. You might want to check that out. She suggests TONS of VEGGIES every day, for everyone.

Even if you get her book JUST for those recipes, you will get your money's worth.

Beyond Lymenet and those here who modify their fat intake or kind of protein sources: you will likely find through the web many good books to offer you support in recipes and life-style.

DEAN ORNISH is one name that comes to mind.

I plead to everyone, though, to realize that there is no right or wrong approach to either protein sources or to fat intake -- ther than always finding the top quality, of course, and always avoid trans fat, overheated, old or poor quality.

One note to anyone starting a vegan or vegetarian diet:

TAURINE is essential to supplement, along with B-12. Without taurine, though, nerve damage and eye damage can occur. There are many good sources of TAURINE available today. Never go without that, ever.
-

[ 11-11-2012, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Keebler
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While not low fat as she uses many kinds of oils, BUT she is VEGAN, check out the website for:

CHRISTINA COOKS

She has fabulous recipes. Vegan, with a Mediterranean flair, as she says.

Where she might use wheat or barley, just avoid that as when she uses brown rice syrup.

Even leaving out olive oil, etc., the spices and foods that she uses are SO very flavorful and she often has certain ingredients that are very moist so as to take up that "space" that fat may have in a previous life of a certain recipe.
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Keebler
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Other recipes can likely be found in all kind of ethnic cooking books as most cultures use far more spices and herbs in their cuisine.

I seem to recall that one chef who goes low fat has used BEANS to substitute for fat in order to get the right texture and feel to some recipes. White beans can feel sort of fatty to the mouth if they are cooked correctly.

Edamame are very buttery, too. And some say Edamame and miso are the two best ways to get soy if you can "do" soy.

Not sure if you can "do" bone broths with the fat removed or not but, if so, they can add much flavor, too.

DEAN ORNISH is the first guy I'd find, though. He's been a champion regarding low fat meal plan. His books and videos are very supportive, loaded with great detail.
-

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Keebler
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-
Other great "flavor support" books:

HEALING SPICES, by Bharat B.Aggrarwal, PhD


THE CURE IS IN THE KITCHEN

A SPOONFUL OF GINGER
-

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nefferdun
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For those of you worried about your fish oil capsule, it is less than half a gram of fat. Theoretically you could take 30 of them a day and still not exceed the fat restrictions. If you would rather eat your omega 3, you can use chia seed which is the highest vegetarian source.

Chia is a good egg substitute because when it is mixed in water, it becomes gooey. I like to use it to thicken salad dressing. I also use low fat yogurt in thousand island salad dressing, instead of mayo. It is great.

I make a wonderful chocolate cake with pureed black beans instead of fat. I also make incredible gingerbread with pumpkin instead of fat. You can substitute coconut palm sugar for sugar and the glycemic index is only 35 so it doesn't spike blood sugar.

I have lost weight on the diet too but I feel wonderful. I weigh the same as I did when I was in my 30's. My skin is clearer and I look younger. I eat all I want and I am never hungry. I have found some very interesting recipes that I really like. Even my husband enjoys eating what I make.

As a side benefit, his cholesterol, which was high, is now normal. His arthritis is gone too. When his father was this age, he was on oxygen because of heart disease.

When I was on Mepron I gained 10 pounds because of the fat I thought I needed to get better absorption of the drug. I paid out of pocket for mepron and it was so expensive I just couldn't conceive of throwing 3/4 of it away. After a year of treatment, the babesia finally went dormant but all that fat made the protomyxzoa go ballistic.

Anyway, just about everyone that is trying the diet is reporting improvement. My improvement is miraculous. Maybe that is because I had already treated 4 other infections so maybe PR was the only one left.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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timaca
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nefferdun~ My training is in nutrition and I've eaten very healthy my entire life.

Recently I did go low fat vegan (I did eat some salmon occasionally while dining out). It did not improve my health significantly and interestingly enough, only dropped my cholesterol and LDL lab values 6 and 8 points respectively. My cardiologist and I both got a laugh out of that.

In addition to low fat vegan I also did not eat sugars or any type of prepared, processed foods (except almond milk or soy milk on occasion.) I made my own bread from whole wheat that I ground myself.

I'm glad you found better health. Certainly many, many people could turn their health for the better if they chose to eat more healthfully.

Being a dietitian by training, I may add that kind of info, and some of the many recipes I've come up with over the years to my website. (A potential future project :-).

Best, Timaca

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Razzle
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A note about taurine for those with the CBS variant: Dr. Yasko says to avoid taurine initially because one component of taurine is another sulfur amino acid (I think it is cysteine, but don't remember for sure).

--------------------
-Razzle
Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs.

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Haley
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I coincidentally ended up on this diet when I had my hormones checked by a physician that knew nothing about Lyme. At the end of our meeting this extrememly young doctor told me to stop eating anything that came from an animal. Huh?! I was having my hormones checked?!

Apparently my LDLs were high (I am not overweight). I said ok.I also decided to lower my fats based on what I knew about Dr. F's recommendation. The first few days I felt great. My veins were unclogged!

Unfortunately, I lost way too much weight and started to feel that I was lacking nutrients. My LDLs were cut in half and my doc said there was no need to continue the diet so I went back on a regular diet.

My conclusion - maybe I will "pulse" this diet as we sometimes pulse meds.

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MichaelTampa
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quote:
Originally posted by timaca:
Recently I did go low fat vegan (I did eat some salmon occasionally while dining out). It did not improve my health significantly and interestingly enough, only dropped my cholesterol and LDL lab values 6 and 8 points respectively. My cardiologist and I both got a laugh out of that.

We should all keep in mind this is just one example, but I consider this an excellent defense against the reason I hear sometimes against going vegan -- that our body will not be able to make the much needed cholesterol.

Cholesterol is something your body needs, and needs more if you have damage in your circulatory system. This experience shows that cholesterol doesn't have to drop to unhealthy levels on this diet, and I would suggest the reason it did not drop in this case is that your body needed the cholesterol to deal with circulatory disease.

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MichaelTampa
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Regarding taurine, I have needed it sometimes, and not at other times. Generally, when I have needed taurine, I have needed many other amino acids, vitamins, and minerals. Then I would retreat parasites, and not need these things anymore. The parasites steal nutrition.

Here are some suggestions I would make for those trying this, to help make it more successful. Some may try this and struggle, or others may not want to try it due to concern about missing nutrition. The suggestions below can help with that, and may help some avoiding failing with this diet.

- Treat parasites, so you can actually get the nutrition you are eating.

- Treat candida/yeast/fungus. In addition to the standard good recommendations regarding avoidance of simple sugars, I use castor oil packs on my liver once a week. Taking Candibactin BR from Metagenics can help a lot, and OLE from Seagate can help quite a bit as well.

- MAP Protein (Master Amino Acid Pattern). This is a high quality protein supplement, and those feeling undernourished on this diet, those feeling you need more protein, would do well to use this. Unfortunately, it is expensive, but your body does need protein, and many dietary sources of protein come with fat. Protein needs to vary from individual to individual, but we all need some. I take about 30 grams of this each day.

- The above does not have taurine, but does have methionine, which can be converted to taurine (through cysteine), if vitamin B6 and methylation works well. Consider Xymogen's Methyl Protect, or a similar supplement, to provide B6, much-needed B12, and 5-MTHF (unless you've tested and don't have the MTHFR gene mutation). Another thing to consider is taking taurine, particularly if you haven't treated parasites well yet.

- Phospholipids - speaking of protecting nerves, going low-fat is going to significantly reduce your chances of getting much-needed phospholipids from your diet.

- Vitamin E - Here we have another fat-soluble vitamin important to immune function to consider supplementing.

- DHA and EPA - These are important too, the ones some refer to as the fish oils, although they can be gotten without fish.

- Note, that NuTru brand makes a 3-pack that contains phospholipids (product called P-Tidyl-Wei), vitamin E (product called E-Toca-Chi), and DHA (product called O-Mega-Zen). I have 4, 3, and 2 of these each day, respectively, that latter supplying 600mg DHA. I get my EPA from Futurebiotics "Vegetarian EPA" supplement, of which I take two/day, supplying 1200mg EPA.

- Be sure you're eating enough beta carotene and other carotenes from colorful foods, so you can make vitamin A; or supplement if you're not, but these foods will keep your diet interesting.

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Catgirl
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Nefferdun, love your recipe ideas (brilliant)! Would you mind sharing (pm if too much to post here) your ginger bread and chocolate cake recipes? Do you ground the chia up? I guess I could do that (these tiny seeds once gave me diverticulitis).

Good info too Keebler. Thanks for the taurine reminder.

Micahel, REALLY good info!!! I forgot about the phospholipids. What's in the MAP? Does it have soy? I went to their website and cannot find the ingredients (PDR). I have had to supplement amino acids lately, so this just might work better for me.

That's funny about the taurine. I asked my well known doc about taurine and he blew it off and thought I didn't needed supplementation even though he knew I'm doing low fat diet. I take it anyway.

I know the arginine is bad but I've actually gained a few pounds this past week eating 3 nuts a day. I haven't found anything else that does this. Maybe the MAP will help.

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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nefferdun
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When you have the CBS mutation you need to avoid sulfur containing foods. The amino acids methionine, taurine and cysteine, which are concentrated in animal proteins, have high levels of sulfur.

Sulfur is converted to sulfates and sulfites and these are over produced with the CBS mutation. Sulfite is neurotoxic. Sulfate stimulates the fight or flight limb of the autonomic system and cortisol stress - "revving you up into an unrelenting biochemical overdrive". Excess hydrogen sulfide causes brain fog.


You get plenty of protein from legumes and whole grains. Together they provide a complete protein source - all the amino acids you need.

Haley, too bad you blew that young doctor off. The CBS mutation is closely linked to the thyroid, hormone production, and releasing eggs from the ovaries.

Every molecule of ammonia produced from meat consumption needs 2 BH4 molecules to remove. This depletes the BH4 which is also needed to generate neurotransmitters and nitric oxide. This sets you up for neurological, psychological and cardiovascular diseases.

After his heart surgery, Bill Clinton began a vegan diet supported by his daughter who is vegan. In an interview on Letterman, he said he had never felt better.

Georgetown university did a study of the vegan diet on type two diabetics. The control group had chicken and fish. At the end of the study, the participants on the vegan diet (with prepared meals) required fewer meds, and several reversed the disease.

Science now supports the vegan diet. It is not just personal preference any more. When I was young I was a vegetarian because I did not like the idea of eating meat. I had no idea it was genetically linked to my health. I began eating meat again to please my husband. Ironically my husband is homozygous for the worst CBS mutation. My two adult children would have been healthier had I known what I do now.

Dr. F's research has proven the low fat whole foods vegan diet helps control the growth of protomyxzoa. If you want to argue protomyxzoa is a myth, isn't that something like arguing chronic lyme is a myth? Dr. F is the cheapest LLMD to visit ($250 versus $450 -600), so he certainly is not in this for the money - and I doubt he is seeking fame for discovering a pathogen many of us know to be a killer.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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nefferdun
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This recipe has egg whites and black beans so it is full of protein and antioxidants. You could eat it for a meal but there is sulfur in the eggs. I make it for special events.

Chocolate Black Bean Cake

1 can refried beans (not spicy)
1 cup egg whites
1 cup sprouted whole wheat flour or spelt flour
1/2 cocoa
3/4 cup agave
2 ts vanilla
2 ts baking soda
1/2 ts salt

A food processor works well to mix or do it by hand.
Bake 350 degrees about 40-45 minutes or until a toothpick inserted into the center comes out clean.

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old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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nefferdun
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You can make these vegan and completely fat free by substituting 2 TB chia soaked in 1/4 cup of water for the eggs, and rice milk. I prefer this. They are moist and taste very rich even though they aren't. You don't have to use sprouted wheat but it is better.


Gingerbread

1 can pumpkin
1/3 cup black strap molasses
1 cup coconut palm sugar (glycemic index of 35)
1/4 cup egg whites
3/4 cup evaporated milk (12 G fat)
1 TB apple cider vinegar
*****
3 cups sprouted whole wheat or spelt flour
4 ts baking soda
1/2 ts salt
1 ts ginger
1 ts cinnamon
1 TB pumpkin pie spice

Add dry to wet and mix well
Pour into oblong cake pan
Bake 350 degrees about 40 minutes or until tooth pick inserted into center comes out clean.

If you add more flour and refrigerate before rolling, these can be gingerbread men cookies.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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MichaelTampa
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Catgirl -- The MAP Protein has L-leucine, L-valine, L-isoleucine, L-lysine HCL, L-phenylalanine, L-threonine, L-methionine, and L-tryptophan. It does not give a split-out of the proportions. It doesn't contain anything else (no excipients), literally, and is not derived form soy, corn, wheat, rice, animal or dairy. I believe it is prepared more chemically as opposed to being derived from a food.

neff -- I've been a vegan many years, and many years did not supplement protein. I do think, all in all, my diet helped me deal with the low-grade chronic lyme / FL1953 / other infections / mold illness. I was vegan well before my illness got really bad. It got really bad from an external event, not from diet, to be sure. So, on some level, I agree with you, the extra protein is not necessary. I do believe, in general, science does support the vegan diet, or at least something nearly that, particularly for those unwilling to take supplements (for such as B12). It is only through disgrace of the government falling prey to the meat lobby that this information has not been much more widely known for years.

Still, when I am targeting real recovery, I find I energy test very strong for this extra protein. You will find some of the well-known LLMD's, and various docs outside the lyme world/controversy entirely, saying that with infections, extra protein is needed. I'm blood type A, and I hear some saying the other blood types, particularly O may need much more protein. If these people are right, I can only imagine supplementing protein would be even more important for the O's to get through this disease via the low-fat diet.

I've seen for myself how important dealing with biofilm and FL1953 can be, so don't want to discount that. I just wonder, if someone has the CBS mutation and is type O, they're going to have a bit of a conundrum, one of the many out there that make this illness so difficult to get over. Perhaps such a person would benefit from supplementing with some protein with a good ratio of the amino acids, while focusing on helping detox the sulfur through other means (was that the one where yucca can help?)?

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nefferdun
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Here is an entree. Try it and you won't feel deprived, I promise you! Plus you are getting a lot of omega 3's!

Lentil, Chestut and Apple Loaf

1 cup green lentils cooked about 45 minutes in 3 cups of water so they are very soft and mash like potatoes. Mash them but leave some whole for texture.

While making the following, soak 3 TB chia seed in 1/2 cup water

"saute in water until softened"
1/2 diced onion
1 cup diced celery (about 3 stalks)
1 cup grated carrot (about 2)
1/2 cup chopped sweet apple

add
1 cup chopped water chestnuts (originally used 1 walnuts)
1/2 cup chopped pumpkin seeds (originally used sunflower)
1/3 cup raisons
1/2 cup oat flour
3/4 cup bread crumbs (3 slices dried ezekiel bread processed)
2 ts fresh thyme or 3/4 ts dry thyme
1/2 ts salt and pepper to taste

Add the soaked chia seed and lentils.
Put in bread loaf pan.
Bake 350 degrees 45 minutes to an hour. Let cool before slicing. It is even better the second day.

If you want to use the walnuts, use half a cup which has 38 grams of fat. That would be about 5 grams per serving. Don't use sunflower seeds because they are high in omega 6 as well as fat.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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nefferdun
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I don't know anything about blood types and diet. In fact, I don't even know my own blood type and neither does my GP if you can imagine that! I will have to find out one of these days.

The thing about B12 is that most Americans are deficient in it because the meat is factory farmed. Animals get B12 from grazing, and they don't graze in filthy feed lots.

I also have MTRR which makes me deficient in B12 so I can't convert it to the usable form and need to supplement with hydroxy B12 (COMT status).

B12 is in dirt. I read somewhere if we grow our root vegetables organically and don't wash the heck out of them, vegans would get B12. We are just so germaphobic that we are terrified of a little dirt.

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old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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Haley
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Nefferdun - Thanks for all the information.

I didn't blow the young doctor off I followed her instructions precisely. I think my LDLs went from 160 to 80 or something like that.

My main point is that I think the diet has advantages an disadvantages. That's why I recommend "pulsing the diet" and keeping an eye on the fat content.

I was shocked at how much fat I was eating. I am now very aware of the fat content in things, but I am not doing the extreme diet.

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MichaelTampa
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One more fat-soluble vitamin I forgot about--the MK4 version of vitamin K2 is another one to consider.
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Catgirl
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Wow, great recipes Nefferdun! I don't know what we would do without you and Michael! Michael, thanks for telling us about the MK4 K2.

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--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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nefferdun
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I haven't heard of that one Michael. I will look into it but I am swallowing so many supplements, I don't know how I can get another one down.

Michael, what are you having for Thanks Giving? This is my first vegetarian holiday and my son is coming home so I need some really good recipes. I am making the gingerbread and vegan loaf but I need something to stuff a pumpkin and any other special recipes anyone can offer that they use a lot.

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old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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MichaelTampa
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I was actually considering making your lentil loaf there. We often are visiting non-vegan family and make some kind of dish like a lentil loaf. I do like the green lentils, particularly with thyme, and have never put water chestnuts in them, but do love water chestnuts.

What we make really is fairly similar to above, we tend to use rice cooked and mushed rather than oats. We normally put some barbeque sauce in it as well, and serve with some on top.

And then sweet potato and/or butternut squash and regular mashed potatoes and corn are all favorites that happen to be classic thanksgiving items anyway.

This year we may be at home making something, but where we live they have a vegan Thanksgiving dinner for the community that a few couples organize, that last few years has had a couple/few hundred people show up. We've been to them years past, and as we'll be in town, may go again this year.

For dessert I sometimes will warm some sweet potato (could use butternut squash or pumpkin) with cinnamon and coconut oil mixed in, sort of as a simple pudding, or a lazy pie. I suppose you could do without the coconut oil, or maybe just a small amount? That's about all I can think of right now, really haven't done too much of the fancy cooking lately.

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nefferdun
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Thanks Michael. I am learning as I go and it is slow. I never thought of mushing the rice when I make loaves with it. That lentil recipe actually called for walnuts rather than chestnuts and the first time I made it I used half of what was called for. If you are not pigging out (as I tend to do) that would not be too much fat.

You are so lucky to have a community vegan Thanksgiving to go to. Such a thing is completely unheard of here. I would like to get together a vegan pot luck group to share recipes and cooking tips. I only know of one vegan family so far.

That is what I have hoped for when I post on here - support and help - but instead I seem to always get people's opinions about how they believe it is unhealthy. But I guess I have put in my two cents worth too when I was opposed to someone else's treatment options, feeling it was a sham or unhealthy.

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old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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Catgirl
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I think I'm going to make Nefferdun's lentil loaf only I'm going to use grains instead of bread (yeast) and add a half of a jalapeno or a serrano (I love spicy food).

Also butternut squash on a salad and just a few drizzled drops of lemon or lime salad dressing (olive oil, lemon or lime juice, salt pepper and some zest). Maybe some cinnamon or coriander (or both) on top of the butternut squash (and salt and pepper). I might top it with a couple of dried cranberries.

Maybe some banana or pumpkin bread for dessert.

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--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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shadesofpurple
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I am glad to see this thread. I eat a plant based diet & feel it has helped me.

I try to be careful not to eat junk, but occasionally it slips in. & i still crave salt & vinegar potato chips a few times a month, but i dont feel that is too unreasonable.

I do wish more restaurants were open to the idea.

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MichaelTampa
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quote:
Originally posted by nefferdun:
You are so lucky to have a community vegan Thanksgiving to go to. Such a thing is completely unheard of here. I would like to get together a vegan pot luck group to share recipes and cooking tips. I only know of one vegan family so far.

That is what I have hoped for when I post on here - support and help - but instead I seem to always get people's opinions about how they believe it is unhealthy. But I guess I have put in my two cents worth too when I was opposed to someone else's treatment options, feeling it was a sham or unhealthy.

Yeah, it really is pretty cool to have a group that big! We'll probably go. I'll keep my eye open for the low-fat ideas that might be available to pass on.

I hear ya, I think this will die down eventually and it will get to that place! Hang in there!

I think I mentioned how much I love thyme with the green/brown lentils. Another thing I think goes excellent with them is sage. For some reason, my body has been rejecting the sage for months, but it is a savory combination for those looking for something new ideas.

One other thing I can share, for those willing to eat the junkier low-fat items occasionally, is the Tofurkey brand pepperoni. Most of the Tofurkey brand stuff is going to be a bit high in fat for this diet, but, surprisingly, their pepperoni is very low in fat as far as fake meats go--0.5 grams of fat for 8 pieces of pepperoni. Thought I'd share since I was so surprised, I almost didn't look, so perhaps others will be surprised as well. We made pizza with it a couple days ago. I like to bring beans to work to heat up, but sometimes a sandwich works much better, and so I can make a pepperoni sandwich with mustard and some kind of lettuce/cucumber kind of stuff which is pretty good.

That's all my ideas for now.

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GiGi
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We would not be suffering from Lyme if we were not toxic, and the first order of business is to reduce the toxic burden, per Dr. K. He told me often enough that he has not met a "healthy vegetarian" yet.

This is a portion of his Neurotoxin Elimination Protocol that has worked wonders for many people if they followed his other recommendations.

"1. High protein, mineral, fatty acid and fluid intake
proteins provide the important precursors to the endogenous metal detox and
shuttle agents, such as coeruloplasmin, metallothioneine, glutathione and
others. The branched-chain amino acids in cow and goat whey have valuable
independent detox effects.
Metals attach themselves only in places that are programmed for attachment
of metal ions. Mineral deficiency provides the opportunity for toxic metals to
attach themselves to vacant binding sites. A healthy mineral base is a
prerequisite for all metal detox attempts (selenium, zinc, manganese,
germanium, molybdenum etc.). Substituting minerals can detoxify the body
by itself. Just as important are electrolytes (sodium, potassium, calcium,
magnesium), which help to transport toxic waste across the extracellular
space towards the lymphatic and venous vessels.
Lipids (made from fatty acids) make up 60-80 % of the central nervous
system and need to be constantly replenished. Deficiency makes the nervous
system vulnerable to the fat soluble metals, such as metallic mercury
constantly escaping as odorless and invisible vapor evaporating from the
amalgam fillings.
Without enough fluid intake the kidneys may become contaminated with
metals. The basal membranes swell up and the kidneys can no longer
efficiently filtrate toxins." etc. etc.

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lululymemom
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I hear so much about Dr. K. on this forum..but very few that have actually been cured by him. If anyone is interested in hearing from a Doctor who highly recommends the low fat vegan diet you may want to look into Dr. McDougall and his research.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_A._McDougall#section_2

[ 11-14-2012, 02:00 AM: Message edited by: lululymemom ]

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IGM 41 IND, 83-93+ IGG 31 IND,34 IND, 41++, 58+, 83-93 IND

31 Epitope test neg.

Bartonella henselae 1:100

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Razzle
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I'm sorry, but Dr. K apparently doesn't know much about the CBS mutation or he wouldn't be recommending a high protein diet for those people.

Yucca is for getting rid of ammonia. It works. I use it for this purpose. My sweat no longer smells of ammonia (cat pee smell!).

--------------------
-Razzle
Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs.

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WhitneyS
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I think the KEY here is different things work for different people. I totally beleive for some people Vegan diets are great-- I used to be vegan.

Some people don't do well-- I was one of them. I dont think its right that people are making blanket statements for what is right or wrong with something like food.

But lets keep the right vs wrong stuff somewhere else.

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GiGi
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I am referring to chronically ill Lyme patients most of whom are very toxic. That is the point of the comment by Dr. K. I posted with regard to the Neurotoxin Elimination Protocol. Healthy people can of course do as they feel and believe, but if as 99.9 % of ill people one must detox environmental stuff, it takes the proteins to do it successfully. I have learned a lot, but I would never attempt to detox years of accumulation only with a vegetarian diet. This is what I am referring to. The full range of certain proteins is most important - also for repair of myelin. I am not sure that the average person can put this together every day and do it right - I certainly could not and many are not well enough to even try.

I also am convinced that Dr. K. after treating and teaching thousands of people for 30some years, most of them chronically ill, knows more about "CBS mutation" than all of us combined. So that is not a comment I much appreciate referring to a person who has given the Lyme community so much.

Balance.

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