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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Dr. Sapi Publishes Study on ADVANCED LABS Culture!

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Author Topic: Dr. Sapi Publishes Study on ADVANCED LABS Culture!
AuntyLynn
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Unsure if anyone has posted this yet ...

Dr. Eva Sapi (New Haven, CT) reports that she has had a 94% positive culture rate with the new Advanced Labs (blood) serum test ... which she used on CDC positive patient samples!

This is huge folks! [Smile]

http://www.medsci.org/v10p0362.htm

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t9im
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Nice to see this published.

I wonder how much it will cost to do a study where the Lyme patients are not CDC positive yet culture positive.

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Tim

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Lymetoo
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I'm with Tim... Why would she choose to do the positive CDC samples?

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Allie
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This is great!!!

To validate the test (calculate sensitivity) you need to have samples from confirmed Lyme-positive patients. The most indisputable criterion for Lyme positivity is CDC positivity.

This is definitely the first step to validating this test and very very important.

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Eight Legs Bad
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quote:
Originally posted by Lymetoo:
I'm with Tim... Why would she choose to do the positive CDC samples?

If she had not used CDC positive patients, the medical establishment would just say that she had proved nothing, as the cohort (in their view) never had Lyme in the first place.

By successfully culturing Lyme Borrelia from the blood of CDC positive patients, she shoots holes in the statements of Wormser, Nowakowski and others who claim that that Lyme disappears permanently from the blood after the immediate post-infection period.
Elena

--------------------
Justice will be ours.

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JenniferMN
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AuntyLynn...

In Feb 2011, my IGeneX western blot was CDC positive w/ 7 IgM positive bands:

18 KDa +
22 KDa -
23-25 KDa +
28 KDa -
30 KDa -
31 KDa ++
34 KDa ++
39 KDa IND
41 KDa +
45 KDa -
58 KDa +
66 KDa +
73 KDa -
83-93 KDa IND

IgG Negative:
with only bands
41 KDa +
58 KDa +

My PCR test for Borrelia Burgdorferi Plasmid was positive (the DNA of Bb was found in my blood).

I was also positive for Anaplasma (HGE-Human Granulocytic Ehrlichiosis).

BUT, after only 9 months of oral abx (after having been sick for 14 yrs), I took the Advanced Labs Blood Culture July 23, 2012 (after having been off abx for 10 weeks) and it came back NEGATIVE-NO GROWTH.

The doctor that advises the MN Lyme Assoc, Dr. Betty Maloney, told me that 1 in 5 NEGATIVE Advanced Labs Blood Cultures are FALSE NEGATIVES. Or, about 20%.

So, who knows?!

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lymenotlite
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Really good news! I wonder whether the test specifically indicates a current infection or whether it might be showing antibodies from a person who no longer has symptoms. Anyone know the cost?
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Lymetoo
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Yeah, my brain started working later... I figured it out.. finally! [Wink]

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by lymenotlite:

Really good news! I wonder whether the test specifically indicates a current infection or whether it might be showing antibodies from a person who no longer has symptoms. Anyone know the cost?

-
Close to $600.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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poppy
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This is not an antibody test. A culture looks for the actual germ.
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JenniferMN
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lymenotlite...

I took the Advanced Labs blood culture test in July 2012. It cost $595.

And, Poppy is totally correct, it is NOT an antibody test. They are literally trying to grow the bacteria from your blood sample. They try for up to 11 weeks. If they can't get any to grow in 11 weeks time, they call it a "negative".

JenniferMN

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sparkle7
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I'm not a scientist so excuse any ignorance here...

If Lyme goes into a cyst state or other form - can the test still detect it? I don't recall how long it can stay in cyst form. Also, what if the Lyme bacteria is not in the sample? For example - it may be in other body parts like the synovial fluid, brain, tissues, etc.

I think Spirostat takes 2 or a few samples.

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Razzle
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The point of the culture is to entice the spirochetes to reproduce with an "ideal" environment (ideal temperature, nutrient broth mix, etc.).

So I would think any cysts or blebs or L-forms or whatever would revert to the spirochete form when in that "ideal" environment.

Yes, if the blood sample drawn for the culture test does not happen to contain any Bb, then the test will be negative.

As said above, a negative test does not rule out Lyme, but a positive result is confirmation of active infection.

--------------------
-Razzle
Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs.

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JenniferMN
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sparkle7...

"If Lyme goes into a cyst state or other form - can the test still detect it? I don't recall how long it can stay in cyst form. Also, what if the Lyme bacteria is not in the sample? For example - it may be in other body parts like the synovial fluid, brain, tissues, etc."

>> Exactly!

That's why I said in my first post, on this thread, that Dr. Betty Maloney, the LLMD advisor to the MN Lyme Assoc, told me that she figures about 1 out of every 5 "negatives" on the Advanced Labs blood culture are FALSE negatives. That's 20%.

I totally agree w/ what you said >> it doesn't seem surprising to me that there would not be any Bb spirochetes in the blood sample taken from my arm that afternoon...

Plus, look at my IGeneX results from a year & a half before >> they were totally positive. So, what happened???

Some people claim that the IGenex tests are the ones that are "wrong", that like Chicken pox tests, they are always going to show that you were once exposed to Lyme, but that, like Chicken pox, you don't still actively have it...

JenniferMN

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JenniferMN
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Razzle...

"As said above, a negative test does not rule out Lyme, but a positive result is confirmation of active infection."

>> Exactly.

JenniferMN

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t9im
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Lymetoo:

Our daughters Advanced Lab culture just came back positive (taken 15 days ago). I'm still waiting for the fax to view.

This was the 2nd time. Last August it was negative.

So this is the first time she has been CDC positive in the 3+ years. She never had enough positive bands at the same time on the Western Blot.

Igenex should be back soon.

She did go through 2 years of oral medications and we though we were done last June but the relapse started around a month ago.

--------------------
Tim

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