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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Chanca Piedra questions

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Author Topic: Chanca Piedra questions
elainer97
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About a month ago I started having what I found out to be a gallbladder attack (stones)- mainly nausea and a lot of bloated discomfort. Stopped my abx since wasn't sure if they wud help or hurt.

Used apple cider vinegar and lemon juice in hot water and that, with careful eating helped some but I wanted to avoid surgery. Looked on here and found chanca piedra (thank y'all [Smile] )

Got the liquid extract and started slow with 3 drops a day (Had been off my babs and Lyme meds for almost 2 wks)- started having babs herx, which is one reason for starting low. Also started sunflower lecithin before each meal- helps! [Smile]

Another week then I got back on my Clindy/quinine. More herxing (irritating since i had made so much progress before the gb attack). Am now up to 30 drops chanca piedra a day (have added a second dose of 10-15 drops some days.)

My questions are: can I take the chanca p. close to the Clindy/quinine and the Plaquenil/Doxy (I rotate 10 days of one combo then 10 days of the other)?

And, can I take the c.p. near my binders (charcoal and DE)?

It's hard to space out everything I take. Also have to take iron which needs to be separate from seemingly everything! And the acid reflux med too.

Hoping the c.p. is gonna do double duty and help fight the babs along with the gallstones!

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Keebler
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These are questions best directed to your LLMD, a LL ND (naturopathic doctor), or even a regular ND or acupuncturist. Unfortunately, I know that it's not possible for everyone to have such a doctor on their team. And I'm so glad we have such a forum as LymeNet for discussion.

If you do have access to a professional trained in this area, though, there may also be better things than this to address the gallbladder. Rhubarb comes to mind as it's really helped my gallbladder to settle down. Seven Forests Rhubarb 17, I'll look for links.

My instinct is to not do too much at one time, especially with the Rx - and I would even stop apple cider vinegar for that can cause some odd effects in my body.

If Chance Piedra seems the best you've got for the time being, I'd back off on other things for the time being and attend to the acute matter.

Be sure to check the fine print on the pharmacy information each drug to see if it might stress the gallbladder.

I hope others will come along who may have experience with this and share what their LL NDs may have taught them.

In the meantime, there are some links here where you may find out more. I hope you can find someone trained in the filed to help you. "How to find a LL ND" Links are in the liver support link here, too:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/123173?

Topic: kidney pain - with CHANCE PIEDRA Links
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Keebler
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In partial answer to one of your questions, in that set above, GiGi has posted:

"If you are mobilizing toxic heavy metals with any of your treatments, kidneys do not deal well with them.

Make sure you take kidney drainage remedies and of course neurotoxin binders several times a day. This is probably the most important part of this whole Lyme treatment scenario." (end GiGi post)
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Keebler
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I've never "used" the mixuture or cider vinegar and lemon juice as you - however, be sure to thoroughly rinse your mouth with clear water after drinking or eating any acids (well, after anything, really).

Do not brush teeth for at least 30 minutes as the acid in these will soften tooth enamel and brushing too soon (or not rinsing) can destroy the teeth. The tooth enamel needs time in a neutral environment to harden again.

Swishing a little bit of SEA SALT in warm or room temperature water can help.
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Lymetoo
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I would think you'd have to take it away from any binders for sure.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Keebler
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As kidney stress is also gallbladder stress, just be sure the bases are covered there, too:


http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=030792;p=0

LIVER & KIDNEY SUPPORT & and several HERXHEIMER support links, too.
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Keebler
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Some good hits pop up with even a basic search for:

Rhubarb, gallbladder

Moving on from those:

From: The ONE EARTH HERBAL SOURCEBOOK (Tilltoson, et.al.)

http://oneearthherbs.squarespace.com/important-herbs/rhubarb-root-rheum-palmatum.html

RHUBARB ROOT (Rheum palmatum)

==========================

http://www.acuatlanta.net/seven-forests-rhubarb-17-100-tablets-p-17615.html?mclick=brand

Most NDs and LAcs carry this excellent brand.

Seven Forests - Rhubarb 17 (100 tablets, also comes in 250 count)

You can read more about this in the book: Bag of Pearls from www.itmonline.org

==========================

http://www.itmonline.org/arts/herbintro.htm

AN INTRODUCTION TO CHINESE HERBS

-by Subhuti Dharmananda, Ph.D.

Excerpt:

(section on) RHUBARB (dahuang)

This large root was one of the first herbs that the Western world imported from China.

It serves as a very reliable laxative, and also has other benefits: enhancing appetite when taken before meals in small amounts, promoting blood circulation and relieving pain in cases of injury or inflammation, and inhibiting intestinal infections.

Rhubarb also reduces autoimmune reactions.

The impact of rhubarb is influenced by how it is prepared; if it is cooked for a long period of time, the laxative actions are reduced but other actions are retained. Typical dosage is 0.5-3 grams per day.

Caution: rhubarb, alone or in formulas, should not be used by those with irritable bowel conditions, as it may cause cramping and diarrhea. . . .

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Keebler
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Looking back at your posting history, I see that you have consulted an acupuncturist in the past but, unfortunately, that may not be an option now.

Could you at least call him/her and ask if they might be able to talk by phone for just one question (or a few)?

Beyond a couple minutes, if you need more, ask about a set time for a set fee? Even if just 10 minutes, it may be best to actually schedule that time so you are not interrupted?

It's important to clarify that you know they can't really treat you over the phone but, if there is anyway they might be able to guide your "education" on a couple questions it would be of help.
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Keebler
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Quinine, itself, can have some very harsh effects and actually can be toxic so be very careful with that. I could never bring myself to "go there" with that.

I found Cryptolepis so much - SO much - better tolerated.


http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/115218

CRYPTOLEPIS sanguinolenta
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elainer97
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Thanks Keebler. I'll go back and look further into ur suggestions. I almost always do a lot of research before I take things. I do have a good LLMD (the one who helped tutu get well).

I haven't called him about this b/c I'm just so used to having to figure things out on my own for so many years.

I wish I could go to my acupuncturist but just can't for a few different reasons. And it's been almost 3 yrs since I've even talked to him.

I have wondered about the timing of the gallbladder attack (it's my first btw)- I had the flu the first of January and the pain was unbearable so I wound up taking a lot of Advil for a few days just to get thru it all. Normally I avoid all pain meds as much as possible and haven't needed any in the past several months, except for that flu episode. Most of the time my pain level is way down nowadays.

So wondered if all that Advil put too much stress on my liver and stirred things up. I did a lot of research on the causes of gallstones too and know the liver plays a big part.

I took the ACV separate from the lemon juice and pretty much stopped them after starting the chanca p and lecithin.

I've had so much improvement on my quinine combo treatment that I can't complain about it [Smile] Only take 1 wth supper. It sometimes makes my tinnitus a bit worse but nothing unbearable.

I would prefer to treat without pharmaceuticals but my stomach tends to be picky about some herbs, which is the main reason for starting slow on the chanca p. I can't take olive leaf extract or licorice- they cause about the same kind of stomach pain as erythromycin drugs.

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