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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Lyme to syphilis

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Author Topic: Lyme to syphilis
Neil M Martin
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Lyme in AZ? I thought they said...oh well.

Tucson's University of Arizona college of public health offered this from a search of "lyme" on their Web site:


Case Study 2
Boy with Fever and Rash


Question 6 of 6
Why is it important to give patients with Lyme disease adequate treatment?

A. To prevent further spread of the disease
Treatment of an infected individual would not have much impact on the spread of the disease. The disease is spread by ticks infected by feeding on wild animals, such as white-footed mouse, white-tailed deer which are hosts for Borrelia burgdorferi.

B. The patient can develop complications if untreated
(eg. cranial palsy, peripheral neuropathy, cardiac defects)

Lyme disease often occurs in several stages separated by symptom-free periods. However, not every patient experiences all phases or symptoms.

Stage 1
Stage 1 begins 3 days to 1 month after infection and lasts for several weeks. It is characterized by the symptoms described by the patient: rash, headache, neck stiffness, fever, chills, severe headaches, joint and musculoskeletal pain, and fatigue.

Stage 2
If left untreated, stage 2 occurs after several weeks or months with meningitis, musculoskeletal pain, and neurological abnormalities (encephalitis, cranial neuritis, facial palsy etc). A small number of patients also develops cardiac problems during this time. Neurologic symptoms usually disappear completely within months.

Stage 3
Within weeks to 2 years after onset of infection 60% of untreated patients develop arthritis with brief bouts of pain and swelling in joints (eg. knees). Many patients also suffer from fatigue.

The course of Lyme disease, caused by Borrelia burgdorferi, is very similar to that of syphilis, caused by Treponema pallidum. Both bacteria are members of the same family, the spirochetes and both diseases occur in several stages: primary syphilis, like the primary stage of Lyme disease, is characterized by a skin lesion at the site of infection which disappears spontaneously. Secondary syphilis is characterized by fever and rash. Tertiary syphilis can occur years later and symptoms include heart damage, neurologic symptoms and fatigue.

C. The rash can ulcerate if left untreated
The rash (Erythema migrans) can expand to a large size and sometimes many patches appear which can vary in shape. The center of the lesion can sometimes become necrotic (with dead tissue). Even in untreated patients the early symptoms, including the rash, usually improve or disappear within several weeks. Therefore, the rash usually is not the major concern in Lyme disease.

This was for High School and college students.

Do they know that Syphilis can destroy or kill you? Or was that not considered important?

[Roll Eyes] [loco] [shake]

Posts: 697 | From Tucson, AZ USA | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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Lyme bacteria is actually alot more complicated than syphilis.

fyi -

Borrelia burgdorferi and Treponema pallidum: a comparison of functional genomics, environmental adaptations, and pathogenic mechanisms

Stephen F. Porcella and Tom G. Schwan

A striking difference between B. burgdorferi and T. pallidum is their total genomic structure. Although both pathogens have small genomes, compared with many well known bacteria such as Escherichia coli and Mycobacterium tuberculosis, the genomic structure of B. burgdorferi is one of the most complex known in prokaryotes.

This spirochete contains a linear chromosome 910,725 bp in length with an average guanine + cytosine (G+C) content of 28.6% (6). Twenty-one extrachromosomal elements, including 12 linear and 9 circular plasmids, totaling another 610,694 bp have also been identified (8). There is considerable variation in plasmid content among isolates.

Some of these extrachromosomal elements are lost quickly upon serial propagation.

In contrast, T. pallidum contains a single circular chromosome with 1,138,006 bp, an average G+C content of 52.8%, and no extrachromosomal elements (7), making its total genome approximately 25% smaller than that of B. burgdorferi.

Importantly, none of the 1041 predicted open reading frames (ORFs) of T. pallidum are homologous to any of the 535 intact ORFs or 167 pseudogenes encoded by the B. burgdorferi plasmids (7, 8). Indeed, over 90% of the B. burgdorferi plasmid ORFs are unrelated to any known bacterial sequences (8).

The novel genes found on the B. burgdorferi plasmids may therefore contribute to the ability of this pathogen to survive and maintain its complex life cycle, alternating between warm-blooded animals and cold-blooded ticks as hosts.

Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
D Bergy
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As far as frequency treatments go, the same frequency works for either.


Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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Dan, are the freq the same for rife or laser. Is it because they are so close together genetically that the freq work? Also, if you have final stage of syphilis can you be cured?

Do you know if HIV has primary, secondary and tert stages?

Posts: 262 | From ohio | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
D Bergy
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I only know that Royal Rife found frequencies that killed the Syphilus bacteria. He tested under the microscope for everything many times. He did animal tests for cancer but I do not know if he did this for Syphilus.

The doctors at the time would have used it on patients. I have read some of the case reports but do not recall any that treated Syphilus although they likely did. It was pretty common at the time. I do not know of a modern day case of Syphilus that has been treated with frequencies. I suppose people are a little reluctant to post about it, if they have treated it.

I don't know why it works for both but I am glad someone had the curiosity to test Lyme with the frequency.

I do not have any knowledge about laser treatments or the frequencies they use. I would speculate the frequencies would have to be converted to much higher ranges for a laser, but I could be wrong on that.

I have no particular knowledge about HIV. I only investigate a few diseases that affect my family.

Sorry I could not be more help.


Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator

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