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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Does treatment stop completely when liver enzymes won't go down?

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Author Topic: Does treatment stop completely when liver enzymes won't go down?
lax mom
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I now have high liver enzymes. My LLMD has taken me off of everything except for a whole bunch of Glutathione.

I have a liver U/S scheduled on Wed. I also had some labs drawn today:ferritin, alpha1 anti-trypsin, something about copper?, Hep B and C and another weird one.

I'm still obviously sick and my brain fog is coming right back. Do LLMD's treat in other ways (ex. all herbs) while waiting on liver enzymes to normalize? or will I just be left to get worse?

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TF
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My lyme doc stops treatment until the liver tests return to normal.

Believe me, if you continued treating, you would have an additional problem on top of the current ones--your liver could fail.

So, as far as I know, all you can do right now is detox--and pray the enzymes return to normal quickly.

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desertwind
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My LLMD will continue to treat if only slightly elevated. Beyond a certain point he will pull me off abx.s and have me add liver support and up my detox.

Within a week of stopping meds liver e.'s come down, but tend to go up pretty fast once back on.

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didogs
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Hi lax mom-I went on BW formula when liver enzymes were elevated. My llnd recommended a castor oil pack to that area and it helped relieve that liver pressure feeling.

Don't know if you have any discomfort-hope you don't-but castor oil packs helped. They really help mobilize the toxins so may be worth a shot.

Hang in there

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beths
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Milk thistle and ALA brought mine down in a week
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faithful777
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If mine go over a certain point, my LLMD will stop treatment. All the advice here is good, detox as best you can with supplements and the glutathione will help.

I can't miss my detox supplements even one day or my enzymes go up while on abx. Once you get back down, you may have to step up the detox supplements you take.

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Just sharing my experience, I am not a doctor.

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Summer3
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My LLMD also takes me completely off. Even for minor elevations. If it gets 10-20 points above the top range of normal in ALT or AST I'm off EVERYTHING until they normalize.

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lax mom
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My liver area is a bit tender, so I guess I need to do a castor oil pack (soooo messy though).

Just can't believe I got to this point on oral abx, not even IV.


My body can't detox. I think that's the whole problem.

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desertwind
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Zhang Hepa #2 Formula always brings my numbers down. Maybe you can try that too?
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Keebler
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Milk Thistle and ALA [Alpha-Lipoic Acid] (posted by beths) can be found in this set:


http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=030792;p=0

LIVER & KIDNEY SUPPORT & and several HERXHEIMER support links, too.

-------------------------------

Zhang Hepa #2 Formula (posted above by desertwind) can be found here:


http://tinyurl.com/5drx94

Book: Lyme Disease and Modern Chinese Medicine -

- by Dr. QingCai Zhang, MD & Yale Zhang

web site: try www.sinomedresearch.org

Passwords: "clinic" and then "clinic" again

or call for help: Hepapro - www.hepapro.com
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Keebler
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You say: "Just can't believe I got to this point on oral abx, not even IV."

See reply below.

You ask: "Do LLMD's treat in other ways (ex. all herbs) while waiting on liver enzymes to normalize?

Many LLMDs employ nutritional supplements such as ALA or NAC (N-Aceytl Cysteine). Some also incorporate certain herbs such as Milk Thistle or Dandelion. It just depends on that doctor.

LL NDs have extenstive training in that area so you may find the most expansive options there.


You wonder: "or will I just be left to get worse?"

No. No good LLMD ever does that. There are so many ways to address all the elements. So many other ways. If your LLMD is not well versed in all the options, find one who is - or explore as best you can with LL authors' works in the LL ND thread.

Starting back to your shock that you find yourself in this position:

It is good that your doctor stops right now. Also be sure about any other Rx you take that he may not be aware of - and avoid acetaminophen - check all OTC products as it's in many.

This is not your fault. And oral Rx (of all kinds) can often damage the liver -- but rememeber that "a liver with lyme" is already one in danger and under great stress.

Often, actually USUALLY, Rx breaks are common (and needed) with lyme treatment. This can be of benefit in a couple different ways.


1. MANY Rx can stress the liver. that's why liver support is absolutely essential before even taking the first dose of (I think) just about any Rx.

That's also why, if an Rx is not required, it is often best to explore other options. Mostly here, I'm talking about Rx for pain management or sleep where other options can often be great help.

2. Lyme, itself, can even damage the liver substantially (as can other infections, too). Lyme can cause hepatitis and that can lead to cirrhosis.

So, that's why it's so important to address it or other infections - just WITH liver support all the way and other avenues if the Rx sometimes might be too much to take.

3. Even some OTC products can, too, such as acetaminophen - sometimes even a single dose (as detailed in the liver links set above).

Even a single dose of acetaminophen can block glutathione in the entire body.
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[ 06-04-2013, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Keebler
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For some who can't tolerate antibiotics, they find a rife machine very helpful.


http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=117755;p=0

Topic: RIFE Machine - Reference LINKS

LL ND (Naturopathic doctor) links here, too, for the most educated guidance with nutritional & herbal options. Some LL NDs can also use antibiotics - or will work with some LLMDs for a comprehensive plan.

Some LL NDs are able to guide rife treatments (LLMDs cannot, by law, sadly).
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Keebler
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You say you are to have an ultrasound done of your liver. I hope they will also U/S the spleen as that is often very much affected by Babesia.
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lax mom
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I have a follow up phone appt with my LLMD at 3. Hopefully, we will have a new game plan.

Thanks for all of the links Keebler. I hope I don't have Babesia but my husband had Babesia WA-1, so who knows.

Hmmm, about 2 weeks ago I had a massive headache that wouldn't respond to Advil, so I took 1 single dose of Tylenol...bad idea now that I read your post Keebler.

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Keebler
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For a headache, magnesium is the best optoin. But also - go dark & quiet [a dark room, or eye cover, and as quiet as possible. Soft music may help but if not, quiet can be very soothing -- if that is possible to find.

Also consider if you have had ENOUGH WATER, if your blood sugar (and food intake) is stable, etc. You may need to eat something.

Eye strain, too. Many factors. Top helper:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=123746;p=0

Topic: MAGNESIUM LINKS sets

Pulling out just a few of the posts from that fuller set to illustrate it's usefullness:


www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1725934/

The role of magnesium in the emergency department

[poster's note: the more we know about magnesium and how we can take care of ourselves, the more likely we are to stay OUT of the E.R.]


http://magnesiumforlife.com/medical-application/magnesium-in-neurological-diseases-and-emotions/

Magnesium in Neurological Diseases and Emotions

. . . Natural Emergency Medicine when used in emergency situations. . . .
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Keebler
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See CORYDALIS here, for pain management. I prefer the natural choices over Rx as, often, Rx are so hard on the liver:

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/3/24039

Topic: Looking for long term pain management
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MannaMe
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Keebler,
You said magnesium for headache?? I never heard that before! How do you use it?

That would be a real blessing to use magnesium instead of Tylenol for headache.

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Keebler
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MannaMe:

I can't write any more right now, sorry. Answers here:


http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=123746;p=0

Topic: MAGNESIUM LINKS sets
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lax mom
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Keebler: I read your response to sammy and I have to tell you that your posts in situations that feel like a catastrophe are so validating and empowering. Thank you!

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Keebler
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Thanks, lax mom.

Guess I have a lot of practice in that department!
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