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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » How long can you take Artemisinin before cycling off?

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Author Topic: How long can you take Artemisinin before cycling off?
Rumigirl
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I know that you have to cycle off Artemisinin every 3 or 7 days (I've heard different # of days)? And how long do you have to cycle off?

I know that if you don't cycle off, there is an enzyme in it that prevents it from working, perhaps every 3 days.

It may be that Dr. K says you can take it every day, if you take it with grapefruit juice? I know that increases the effectiveness. Although it will increase the strength of other meds, and that may be dangerous.

But it may be that he says that to increase the effectiveness, but that it doesn't mean that you don't need to cycle off. What do you know about these issues? Thank you!

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Keebler
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I think the higher dose of some of the pushes is why the short cycels are suggested.

At a different dose, I've taken it in 40-day cycles (twice) and did just fine in accordance with this combination protocol. Other support measures, and diet, can help provide enzymes:


http://tinyurl.com/5drx94

Book: Lyme Disease and Modern Chinese Medicine -

- by Dr. QingCai Zhang, MD & Yale Zhang

web site: try www.sinomedresearch.org

Passwords: "clinic" and then "clinic" again

or call for help: Hepapro - www.hepapro.com
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Keebler
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It sounds like you don't have a LL doctor to ask. Ultimately, it's a question that is best answered by an integrated LLMD or a LL ND who can design a full protocol for you.


When considering herbal / nutritional / adjunct methods:

if at all possible - because each person & each case is different - it's best to consult with an ILADS-educated LL ND (lyme literate naturopathic doctor) (or similar) who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -

- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present, and has completed the ILADS Physician Training Program (see: www.ilads.org )

Many LL NDs incorporate antibiotics (depending upon the licensing laws in their state). Some LLMDs and LL NDs have good working relationships.

When possible, it's great to have both a LLMD and LL ND and even better when they have a long-standing professional relationship.

-----------------------

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/2/13964

How to find an ILADS-educated LL:

N.D. (Naturopathic Doctor);

L.Ac. (Acupuncturist);

D.Ay. (Doctor of Ayurvedic Medicine);

D.O.M. (Doctor of Oriental Medicine);

D.O. (Doctor of Osteopathy);

D.C. (Doctor of Chiropractic);

Integrative / Holistic M.D., etc.

(Be aware that those in some categories can have zero or various levels of formal herbal &/or nutritional education, perhaps even just a short course. Do ask first.)

Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:

Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures from all corners of medicine;

knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.

You can compare and contrast many approaches.

BASIC HERBAL EDUCATIONAL & SAFETY links,

BODY WORK links with safety tailored to lyme patients,

LOW HEAT INFRARED SAUNA detail,

BIOPHOTON - BIONIC 880 (& PE-1) links, and

RIFE links.
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Keebler
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Grapefruit juice can make some drugs work better, faster (but then also perhaps spike and move out too of system too fast) and some not work as well. Much depends on a person's liver function, not just the grapefruit.

You might cross-reference the Rx you have in mind with a web search.
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Rumigirl
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Thank you, Keebler!

I do know that a number of docs say that you have to cycle off Art, because of the enzyme problem, but not sure if the grapefruit juice eliminates that problem.

Yes, of course, it would be best to ask my/an LLMD. I have one, but I am not at all satisfied that he knows enough, or that he comes up good treatment protocols.

I am trying to figure out who to switch to----there is no easy answer here. In the meantime, I am trying to figure things out for myself.

I have had to switch LLMD's so many times it just isn't funny---more than anyone I know of. It is extremely expensive, difficult, and time-consuming. I am really fed up. But I have to figure it out, or I will never get well. Sigh.

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Keebler
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Some doctors also say if you don't stay on it long enough (even in combination as it must be), it can't work as well. But the regular vs. high dose variations do have their differences. The high dose can only be so many days at a time.

I hope others will post your perfect answer. In the meantime,

You might seek out the LL authors in that ND set, cross-search the web by their name and "artemisia" and other terms. Maybe see if they have a contact method.

You asked about Dr. K. Find his most recent set, check out his website and maybe even call the office if you still can't find his thoughts on this.

I do not have his most recent link (and it updates often) - others might, though.

I always like to have the quote from the sources, themselves, and then compare and contrast what each says.
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Keebler
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Maybe also search your key term at the ILADS website so as to find references to it in any of the ILADS conference presenters' talks there.

www.ilads.org
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Keebler
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Thinking you might be interested in this set, too:


http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Lyme-Prevention-Borreliosis-Coinfections/dp/0970869630/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1361216068&sr=1-1&keywords=Healing+Lyme%3A+Natural+Healing+And+P revention+of+Lyme+Borreliosis+And+Its+Coinfections

Healing Lyme: Natural Healing And Prevention of Lyme Borreliosis And Its Coinfections

- by Stephen Harrod Buhner (2005)

[He is a master herbalist / researcher / author - not a treating doctor. He isextremely lyme literate.]


http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Lyme-Disease-Coinfections-Complementary/dp/1620550083/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1361214365&sr=1-1&keywords=Healing+Lyme+Disease+Coinfections%3A+C omplementary+and+Holistic+Treatments+for+Bartonella+and+Mycoplasma+%5BPaperback%5D

Healing Lyme Disease Coinfections: Complementary and Holistic Treatments for Bartonella and Mycoplasma [May, 2013]

Stephen Harrod Buhner


Websites: http://buhnerhealinglyme.com/ & http://planetthrive.com/2009/08/buhner-healing-lyme-program/

Forum: http://planetthrive.com/category/experts/buhner/


http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultima- tebb.php/topic/1/115218

CRYPTOLEPIS sanguinolenta & SIDA ACUTA LINKS

Re: Babesia
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Summer3
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I do high dose 400mg 3x per day for 3 days on 11 days off. This is as recommended by Dr. R. in WA to avoid the enzyme issue. I don't take it with grapefruit juice because I'm on other meds.

--------------------
http://www.lymepie.blogspot.com

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Rumigirl
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Thank you, Summer, that is a pretty good reference to this question.

I presume that Dr. R in WA was trained by Dr. K, is that correct? It sounds like Dr. K's info.

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Rumigirl
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Thank you, thank you, thank you, Keebler!! You are a fount of information and wisdom. What would we do without you??
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Summer3
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Yes, the one that does the webinars.

--------------------
http://www.lymepie.blogspot.com

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faithful777
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I think that every doctor has their own dosing schedule for Art. I took 500 mg twice a day for 4 days on 3 days off.

--------------------
Faithful

Just sharing my experience, I am not a doctor.

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Rumigirl
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quote:
Originally posted by faithful777:
I think that every doctor has their own dosing schedule for Art. I took 500 mg twice a day for 4 days on 3 days off.

I've heard that schedule---or, actually, 3 days on and so many days off.
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