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Author Topic: Mild Hyperbaric Treatment
foxy loxy
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yay, my vendor is swapping concentrators!! [Smile] Thankfully, the man I borrowed mine from had this vendor's number. Thanks for the direction Phoiph.

Goodbye, rattling concentrator. Hello, one that works. (hopefully)

Its funny. At this time I am usually in it. It feels so weird just to go to bed. It is like not brushing your teeth! (or eating pills):/

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Phoiph
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Foxy loxy...

What kind of concentrator will you be getting in the swap?

If it is going to take a long time, you can always dive without your concentrator for the time being. The pressure is still beneficial, and the 02 content inside the chamber will still be slightly increased.

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foxy loxy
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Phoiph,

He said it would be the same one. He was willing to take it back because it is still under warranty. I was so glad. I only had to pay fifty bucks to ship it!

He said I should get it the end of this week, so only a few days without it. Good idea to keep diving Phoiph. I never thought of that! [Smile]

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foxy loxy
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Ok so I got my "new" concentrator. It rattles too!!!!! [Frown] It isn't as loud as my old one, but I am assuming they all do a bit?

The air quantity seems the same as my old one, so now I feel kinda stupid. But it didn't USED to rattle...grrr

Does anyone else have a concentrator that rattles?

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Phoiph
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No...I'm going to email you the contact information for a vendor who you can trust to ask about this...
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susank
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Question about air quality in the room where my chamber is located. Probably it's not the best.
The room has carpet - and the chamber, compressor and concentrator are on the floor.

I can't keep my house as clean as it should be.
There is probably (lots of) dust and animal dander in the carpet. I do have a Hepa filter/tower running in the room.

I think the compressor and the concentrators both have filters? I have an awful feeling I am pumping allergens into the chamber.

I have not been diving with supplemental O2.
I think I have noticed, though, that when I have - the air in the chamber seemed "cleaner".
(Another good reason to be using the concentrator?).

Even though the air from the compressor and the concentrator come from the air in the room.

Thoughts/ideas? Thanks.

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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Phoiph
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Hi SusanK...

If you have a lot of dust and animals, you will need to clean the filters more frequently; probably weekly.

Is there a reason why you're not using the concentrator to just flow in the 02 (without wearing the mask at first)?

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susank
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Tks Pho. Is there a filter on the compressor?
Maybe the thingie that one end of the tubing is connected to?

(I did not get any instruction manuals).

I thought that perhaps I was having a bit of trouble with the supplemental O2- so have tried diving w/o it. I guess time to hook it back up - and not use a mask.

Regarding the pressure issue I may be having; neighbor and I ran the chamber with and w/o the extender. The gauge still reading just a hair short of 4 PSI - not going past that.

I banged around the foot valves - that did not seem to help. FWIW we briefly covered the foot valves with our hands - and IIRC the gauge read above 4 PSI - which I guess would be expected. Wondering if that means anything?

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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Phoiph
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There are two round black spherical filters on the compressor. They have a little paper filter inside that catches dust and can be gently brushed off.

They are difficult to open and don't need to be cleaned very often, from what I've been told...but if you do have a lot of dust it might be a good idea to do this more often.

To remove, you would unscrew the spheres from the compressor, then twist the two halves apart.

About your gauge...it sounds to me like it is working, if it goes above 4PSI when tested...so you must still be losing a slight amount of air somewhere...and I suspect it is your zipper tab which can easily get bunched up and create a gap.

Next time you pressurize if from the outside, once it gets near 4.0, put the palm of your hand over the closed end of the zipper (at the large window end) and put some weight on it to seal it. See if it creeps up to 4.2...

If so, try to get those tabs flattened out when you zip up.

[ 05-29-2016, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: Phoiph ]

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susank
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Thanks.
Now I know where the filters are on the compressor. (Your third paragraph above - you meant compressor, right?).
Are tools required?

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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susank
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Pho - questions about diet.
I have been trying to follow the GAPS diet as best I can.
I note where you did that as well - and I eat much like your (famous) six foods. Except I could not do sardines.
My sister cooks for me.
Perhaps the last batch of broth was bad - anyway - something made me real sick - so I can't much think about broth for a while.
But wanted to ask - did you have veggies in your broth. What veggies did you eat?
I really don't want to eat.
I try to eat salads/greens daily - but tonight just threw it all out.
I'm trying to eat real/raw/fresh, etc.
I know we need veggie/fruit fiber.
Probably should not be eating fruit (sugars).
Truly the only vegetable I can think about is an avocado - and IIRC they're not even vegetables. ??
I have had a rule for years - must eat one green veggie a day.
What did you do for fiber if I might ask?

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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susank
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Another question - re: cleaning inside of the chamber.
A gal on a mHBOT FB page said some folks place a bowl of peroxide in the chamber and let it run.
Don't know if that means wiping down the insides after or what.
Or if the correct way to clean/sanitize is to use a solution and by hand wipe down the insides.
Ugh - can't imagine doing that - but if I must....
So - what's the easiest/most effective way?

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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S13
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quote:
Originally posted by susank:
Pho - questions about diet.
I have been trying to follow the GAPS diet as best I can.
I note where you did that as well - and I eat much like your (famous) six foods. Except I could not do sardines.
My sister cooks for me.
Perhaps the last batch of broth was bad - anyway - something made me real sick - so I can't much think about broth for a while.
But wanted to ask - did you have veggies in your broth. What veggies did you eat?
I really don't want to eat.
I try to eat salads/greens daily - but tonight just threw it all out.
I'm trying to eat real/raw/fresh, etc.
I know we need veggie/fruit fiber.
Probably should not be eating fruit (sugars).
Truly the only vegetable I can think about is an avocado - and IIRC they're not even vegetables. ??
I have had a rule for years - must eat one green veggie a day.
What did you do for fiber if I might ask?

I had trouble progressing through the GAPS introduction diet. Finding a source of fiber was very problematic for me. Adding veggies would make symptoms worse. But i discovered it was the fermentable veggies that mostly did it. FODMAPS. They feed intestinal flora (good and perhaps some bad types) and can trigger all kinds of different reactions.
Good flora for example pushes the immune system and that can cause all kinds of problems when you still have a toxic body. Good flora can also kill off candida and that leads to toxin release in your body. Bad flora produces these toxins on their own. What exactly is going on will probably remain a mystery, but these reactions dont seem to happen with non-FODMAP veggies for me. The exception being kale and spinach, being so nutrient dense they can trigger some detox symptoms. They did for me initially.
However these veggies are import ones to add to your diet eventually. And now after a couple of months i can handle them just fine.

So maybe try non FODMAP veggies first and only after that try to add medium FODMAP veggies like avocado.

Also you can use psyllium husk or pure cellulose powder as fiber supplements. They dont seem to feed the gut flora and will just pass through you, absorbing some of the toxins along the way.

Also for me being toxic with an overloaded liver, i found that eating all the fats from the GAPS intro diet would really stress out my liver even more. Lots of nausea. So try to keep your calories to a minimum to sustain your weight. Dont overeat.

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Phoiph
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Susank...

As per the manufacturer, the best way to clean the chamber is with a 50/50 solution of over the counter 3% hydrogen peroxide and water.

If you are sharing the chamber it is important to do this more frequently than if you are just using it yourself.

When not in use, keep the zippers open so air can circulate inside. You can set a box of baking soda inside if you like.

I couldn't handle raw vegetables at all when I was ill and down to 5-6 foods, except for the fermented foods which were more tolerable for me.

I ate lots of avocados. I also ate soaked and oven dried raw nuts (walnuts, almonds, & pecans). Preparation here is everything; the soaking removes the tannins which are what irritates the gut. I also ate peeled green apples (later I could handle the peel). There is a lot of fiber there.

You can also use the soaked/baked nuts to make nut milks and nut butters (as I know you said you need to put on weight).

Here are some recipes for the nut butters:

Raw Nuts Done Right: A video on healthy preparation of nuts and nut butters for best digestion and nutrition: http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/video-raw-nuts-done-right/

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susank
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Re: 50/50 HP and water.
What to do?
Place a bowl inside and run the chamber and that's it?

Wipe down windows - but also the insides - by hand?

Ugh..my back - thinking about this.
What do others do?

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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Phoiph
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SusanK...

A 50:50 solution of hydrogen peroxide and water mixed in a spray bottle. Just spray and wipe the inside occasionally.

You can put a bowl or open box of baking soda inside when not in use.

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susank
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Thanks. I will be sharing the chamber with one other person.
I guess there is the worry of germs breeding in the chamber with the heat and moisture/sweat.
Parts of the chamber will be difficult to reach by hand.
Ideas for a long-handled "something" to get to the (perceived) difficult to reach spots.
Asking - because the Solace is small - and I hurt everywhere. Getting on hands and knees - contorting to clean the ends etc - need help.
Sorry to be such a pain asking these questions.....
Thanks in advance.
(Can I run an essential oil diffuser in the room when the chamber is not in use? Peppermint - or something similar in regards to killing germs?).

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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Phoiph
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SusanK...

Remember that the chamber is not a sterile environment, and you won't ever make it so.

Of course, you will both have your own masks, and your own clean sheet/pillow each time.

If the other person is stronger, have them wipe the chamber down before and after their use, and you won't need to do it.

I don't know about a diffuser...I personally wouldn't want any smells to permeate the chamber.

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Digby
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Hi Everyone,

I’ve read this whole thread from the beginning and you are a wonderful bunch of people even though you struggle with your health. Kudos for being such a respectful, kind group of people.

I’ve been sick for many years. Got diagnosed with Lyme in 2005. Like many of you I’ve tried “everything” from Antibiotics to Nutriceuticals, from Rife to Ozone. So far nothing has helped as much as mild Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (mHBOT).

I read Phoiph’s story and reached out to her for assistance and all I can say is; she is an angel here on Earth. Her help was freely given and I credit her with my improvements.

So I started with 18 dives in a big chamber at 2.0 ATA which did nothing but cause herxes. I am now a believer in the slow but steady approach of MILD HBOT.

I’ve done well over 400 dives in my Vitaeris Chamber and have gone from walking to the mailbox with a cane and taking a cart during a rare trip to Wal-Mart, to walking 2 to 3 miles on local trails without any assistance. I recover much faster when I overdo it, sleep better, and can tolerate foods, supplements and environments that use to put me in a tail spin.

I am far from cured but for the first time I am seeing improvement in spite of my advancing years.

There are a couple of things that I think are essential to a successful mHBO therapy. One is eating a real food, low carb, high fat diet. It may not be for everyone but the research shows anti-inflammatory effects, increased mitochondrial activity and a more efficient Kreb’s Cycle with lower reactive oxygen species production.

Which brings us to the second important item. Reduce antioxidant supplements. If you load up on C, E, CoQ10, etc. while diving, you will block the increase of our endogenous (made within our bodies) antioxidants like glutathione, catalase and SOD.

I have to admit that cutting back on my antioxidants which I had been taking in large doses for decades was really hard for me. I was convinced my body would fall apart but instead I just keep getting stronger. There is research supporting both sides of this issue so I can’t say for sure which is right but I can say that my lab rat (me) is thriving with fewer antioxidants and it makes logical sense.

Good Health to All,
Digby

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Monti
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Thanks for sharing Digby I found your post encouraging [Smile]
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Phoiph
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Thanks for the kind words and sage advice, Digby!
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Peimomma
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Phoiph I have a question about elevation and diving. Currently I live at about 500 above sea level but we are moving to AZ where it will be 1600 feet above sea level.

What changes can I expect from the elevation difference.

As always much appreciation of your knowledge and wisdom😊

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Phoiph
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Aw...thanks, Peimomma...

I don't think you'll notice much change. My elevation in AZ is 3400 ft.

Are you still doing 1 hour dives/day? If so, you could add 15 minutes once you move.

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toyswalk
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Hello Digby! Your post certainly encouraged me, and it's timing is beautiful, thank you.

Have you researched, considered or are you even aware of any concerns over a person with SOD genetic defect doing mHBOT? There is an article online by Pharmacist Suzy Cohen that made me start pondering this issue.

I do not understand the action of oxidative stress, the human body and mHBOT. I will heed your antioxidant warning (I'm currently only taking two capsules of Vit C (with dinner which is usually six hours after my dive).

I am on dive 168, was just recently able to start adding supplemental oxygen leaving mask just laying to the side. My difficulties making progress (and it taking so long to add oxygen) are what has my pondering this SOD gene angle.

I look forward to using a cane to get to the mailbox. I currently need a walker to get to fridge and bathroom.

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Digby
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Toy,

I haven't looked at that but I will. Keep in mind that even with a gene deletion the body can usually still make the final chemical in the cascade. It just has to use work arounds.

That's where epigenetics come in to play and HBOT is a significant intervention that can turn on genes that increase endogenous antioxidants.

If I find anything of interest, I'll post it here.

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Digby
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Oh, and one more thing...my healing has been so slow and subtle that for a long time I was convinced HBOT was just another failed therapy.

The thing that helped me was that I'm stubborn, so I just kept at it through the herxes and the boredom. :^)

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Peimomma
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Phoiph, thank you

Yes, once I return from vacation I will be back to one hour dives.

I will keep that in mind once we get relocated.

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Monti
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Digby how long was it before you clearly started noticing improvements?
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Phoiph
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Digby...I'm so happy you're here. (He has knowledge & background, people! He's helped me connect the dots on many subjects...)

Just wanted to add my earlier email response to Toyswalk on this subject:

In my opinion, the article grossly simplifies the antioxidant process and takes it out of context. It is actually a very complex and integrated process, with multiple endogenous and exogenous factors at play. Focusing on a single snp doesn't give an accurate "big picture", as the body has many compensatory strategies.

I also don't lump mild hyperbaric oxygen therapy into the same category as ozone, hydrogen peroxide, etc. It is a much more healing and comprehensive therapy.

Think about all of the neurodegenerative diseases and those associated with aging (e.g., MS, Parkinson's, Dementia, Alzheimer's, Diabetes, etc.). Many believe free radicals damage is a huge factor in these diseases, and that this population has less ability to fight them. If mHBOT was contributing to their free radical damage, why would it be the ONLY known therapy that regenerates neural tissue and promotes recovery in these people?

Think of the autistic population. They are known for high free radical levels, snps, and inability to detoxify. Yet this study points out that their low levels of endogenous antioxidants increase after mHBOT therapy:

Hyperbaric Oxygen Treatment in Autism Spectrum Disorders: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3472266/

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toyswalk
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Thank you both. Digby, please contact me directly by email if you are interested in my SOD links. Phoiph can give you my contact info.
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Digby
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Monti, Ha! There was nothing clear about the process. And I fought it all the way. After decades of failed treatments I was pretty sure this would fail as well.

So, the best answer I can give you is that in retrospect I was seeing benefits after about 200 dives (maybe even before) but I wasn't willing to attribute them to the chamber until fairly recently. Hope that helps.

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Digby
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Pho...Thanks for the kind words. I agree with your succinct post above.

BTW, I have a medical Ozone Generator and used it extensively in the past. It will increase endogenous antioxidants, especially if injected but it is not equivalent to mHBOT in other ways.

Ozone helped some specific symptoms but in no way affected the deeper illness. Perhaps that is the difference... deep healing instead of chasing symptoms.

Toy...Feel free to IM me with the links.

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willbeatthis
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Hi All Trailblazers: This is such an encouraging and incredible thread. Your documentation and help to other Lyme sufferers is really incredible.

I would like to learn more. I am diligently reading this thread (actually for a second time) as it is sticking better this time.

Phoiph: Your gift to us all with your shared experience and guidance is truly beyond words.

I have sent you a PM. I look forward to hearing from you when you are able.

I am ordering the Oxygen Revolution book now. I Thank you all for your contribution to so many.

[Smile] WBT [group hug]

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Phoiph
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Welcome, willbeatthis (and you will...:)

Thank you...I'm a little backed up at the moment...but will answer your PM very soon!

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willbeatthis
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Thank you Phoiph! You are so encouraging. Thank you.... No rush.... My reading material is on its way and I am still reading through this thread.

Thank you so much.... [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

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Kristine001
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My new AirSep concentrator doesn't seem to be working, although it makes breathing sounds and there is a light air-flow out. But no effect in me like at the doctor's office.

I am sending it back anyway because of external damage from shipping and I received the wrong model, but it will be 2-3 weeks before the right one comes.

Is there any sense in using the chamber w/o O2 until the new unit arrives?

Is there a simple way to test if this unit is actually emitting compressed O2?

Thanks!

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Phoiph
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Hi Kristine...

Yes...There is definitely benefit to using the chamber with pressure only. Just plug the 02 port with the brass screw.

The only way to test the concentrator 02 purity is with an expensive 02 gauge. 02 equipment/repair shops can do this for you...usually at no charge if you bring the concentrator to them.

This is why you want to make sure you get the model concentrator with the oxygen purity monitor...because it will alert you if the purity falls below 80%. The AirSep New Life Intensity 10 with this feature will have a little yellow light on the front panel.

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project
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I haven't read through this entire thread, so I apologize if this has already been discussed.

I've been researching ways to heal infected parts of my jawbone that seem to be related to Lyme & co.

I noticed that HBOT is actually recommended for this:

"Hyperbaric oxygen treatment (HBOT). If you have chronic osteomyelitis and you are not responding to other treatments, or the osteomyelitis involves bones of your spine, skull, or chest, your doctor may order HBOT."
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/healthlibrary/conditions/bone_disorders/osteomyelitis_bone_infection_134,150/

I wonder if this is why some Lyme patients are having success with mHBOT/HBOT, and maybe someone's response to it correlates with their degree of bone infection.

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Phoiph
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Hi project...

HBOT is recommended for refractory osteomyelitis, and it is one of the 13-14 "covered" conditions that insurance companies/medicare may pay for.

It is usually treated at a higher pressure (HBOT, not mild hyperbaric, or mHBOT) for a specified number of treatments, which is done in a clinical setting.

Note: People with Lyme will need to be very cautious about doing higher pressures...

That said, there may very well be benefit from long term mild hyperbaric. I would recommend seeing a true specialist in HBOT/mHBOT...I know one of the best neurologist/HBOT specialists around if you get down to AZ...

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project
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AZ is not too far.. can you pm me their name?

Why do you say that people with Lyme should be cautious doing higher pressures? There is an HBOT place 15 mins from me and I was thinking of doing a session to try it out.

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Phoiph
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Yes...I will PM you her name.

Generally and in a nut shell, neurological/brain conditions (of which Lyme is one, as is Autism, MS, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, ALS, Traumatic Brain Injury, Stroke, CP, etc.) respond to mild pressures (i.e., a "sweet spot") and can show regression with higher pressures.

Here's an article that explains that concept:

More is Better: The Recurrent Illusion of Higher Pressure HBOT in Chronic Brain Injury, by Dr. Paul Harch: www.wisconsinhyperbarics.com/research-pdf/more-is-better.pdf

Higher pressures are also carry more risk, and cannot be done long term, which is necessary for the comprehensive, deep healing required for Lyme.

Many people have "tried" higher pressures, but have experienced significant reactions that prevented them from continuing. Or, their therapy was typically short-term, which did not allow them to hold on to their gains.

Consistent, mild pressure over time has been much more successful in my experience, and is what most of the people on this thread are participating in.

[ 06-15-2016, 12:46 AM: Message edited by: Phoiph ]

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mofarmerswife
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Hi, Phoiph -

You have a new PM....
Looking forward to touching base with you soon on sources of chambers and oxygen concentrators - like others on this board, we're setting our sights on a bright future that has this disease under control and being a resource for others who are battling for a "normal" life again!

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willbeatthis
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Hi Phioph- there is a message in there from me as well and now your messages are full. Thank you so much for all your help! WBT
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Phoiph
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Thank you...I'm backlogged.

I'm answering earliest calls/messages first...but promise I will respond very soon...

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willbeatthis
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Thank you, Phoiph! Appreciate all you do! [Smile]
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Keebler
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-
Stumbled upon this while looking for something else:


http://lymemd.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2016-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2017-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=7

LymeMD blog - Thursday, June 2, 2016

THE LYME BRAIN AND NOOTROPICS

Excerpts:

. . . Cognitive impairment is one of the most disabling symptoms seen in patients with Lyme disease. . . .

. . . Clearly if we are dealing with germs in the brain we need to use antimicrobial agents which are powerful, able to penetrate into the brain and able to target the specific organisms of concern.

Typically, the focus is on spirochetes, pleomorphic variants, blood parasites, bacteria in blood vessels, biofilms and perhaps other organisms, like worms.

What else? How do we make the brain work better? . . .


. . . Hyperbaric oxygen therapy. For practical reasons most patients only have access to home units with offer a low pressure.

A new unit can be purchased for as little as 5500 dollars. Patients who do the best spend 2 hours or more per day in the chamber.

The treatment reduces oxidative stress, promotes glutathione and has been specifically shown to improve neuroplasticity with reversal of abnormal SPECT scan patterns. . . .
-

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susank
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I have held off - but guess I need to buy an Oxyhealth mattress.
How thick are the ones made for the Solace?
How cushiony are they?
What are they made of? Need to off-gas?

Does everyone have a mattress in their chamber?
If not one made for the chamber - what do you use?

Is there something better than the Oxyhealth mattress for someone with a very painful bony back?

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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Phoiph
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susank...

The mattresses are convex shaped to fit the curve of the chamber on the bottom, and flat on the top.

They are several inches thick in the center; made of foam zipped inside and a nylon cover.

The off-gassing would depend on an individual's level of sensitivity to that material. It hasn't been much of a problem for most people.

If you decide to use other materials (i.e., cut mattress pad foam layers to fit, etc.), you can always add an extra layer under your chamber (between the chamber and the floor).

When I made my platform on casters, I added a foam layer to the top of the MDF (cut slightly larger), then stretched fabric over it, and stapled it to the underside of the MDF. (Cutting the foam layer slightly larger makes the edges soft when the fabric is stretched over them.)

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Jolley
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Has anyone traveled with your mHbot and concentrator? I was looking to see if it would be easier to take the oxygen concentrator by plane (as baggage) or if I should ship it. I still have the box it came in which I will use to package it. Does anyone have experience with this? What is the easiest way?
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susank
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I'll probably buy the mattress online.

Price: $300

Looks like the same (size) mattress is sold for the Solace and Respiro.

Does this sound right?

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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Phoiph
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Jolley...

Some airlines ship medical equipment for free, and don't count it as one of your bags. As you said, it should be packed in the original box/packing. I would check with the airlines about size/weight restrictions, insurance, etc.

That said, it is a gamble to ship OR send it via airlines...as it is supposed to be kept upright at all times...and we all know how that goes.

Another option might be to rent a concentrator at your destination if there is an oxygen equipment supplier nearby. Of course, you would have to make sure to get one with enough LPM and PSI...

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Phoiph
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susank...

Since it is the same price from Oxyhealth, why not just get it directly from them...then you will know you are getting the right size, etc.?

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mofarmerswife
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Hi, Phoiph -

So sorry to have missed your call! Like WillBeatThis and others on this board, we appreciate all you contribute, and look forward to talking with you soon!

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soccermama
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Any thoughts or comments on the Lyme MD's thinking that 2 hours or more per day is needed? He was addressing cognitive issues in his post. Just wondering what people on this thread thought?
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susank
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Found this article - do the calculations look correct?

http://www.pittsburghalternativehealth.com/services/hyperbaric.html

I'm trying to find out how much O2 comes from:

Diving:
-No supplemental O2
-O2 tubing loose in chamber
-Nasal Cannula
-Mask

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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Phoiph
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soccermama...

I disagree unless perhaps you are diving without breathing supplemental 02 via concentrator; (i.e., just using pressure).

For those that haven’t read it, I will post this article by Dr. Harch once again. He is the HBOT specialist that has researched and treated cognitive/neuro conditions with mHBOT for over 20 years. The article discusses concerns regarding higher pressures and length of sessions in regard to cognitive/neurological issues:

More is Better: The Recurrent Illusion of Higher Pressure HBOT in Chronic Brain Injury, by Dr. Paul Harch: www.wisconsinhyperbarics.com/research-pdf/more-is-better.pdf

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Phoiph
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Susan...

The calculations look good on paper, but the percentage of tissue saturation varies from person to person, and day to day.

Without supplemental 02, the pressure alone will raise the 02 level in the chamber form approximately 21% to 24%.

Laying the tubing down in the chamber (not wearing the mask), will raise the 02 level in the chamber to approximately 29%.

Although an oxygen concentrator might put out 93% O2, the amount of available oxygen delivered directly through a simple mask is approximately 40-60% at 5-10 LPM, and 20-40% through a cannula.

Of course, these numbers represent only the amount of 02 that is delivered through the mask or cannula, for example, however the available amount of 02 is greatly increased when the 02 is breathed under pressure (as the article states).

That said, the amount of actual tissue saturation will still vary.

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Digby
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quote:
Originally posted by soccermama:
Any thoughts or comments on the Lyme MD's thinking that 2 hours or more per day is needed? He was addressing cognitive issues in his post. Just wondering what people on this thread thought?

Here are some random thoughts on this issue...

First off there are no studies that I know of that test this hypothesis.

Even if there were, I suspect that each individual would have a different tolerance, not only to the time spent in the chamber but to the pressure and O2 concentration.

Finally and I think this is an important concept to wrap one's head around; HBOT is a hormetic intervention. Look up HORMESIS. Basically it says that the treatment in high doses is toxic but at the proper dose it stimulates the body to heal.

Other examples are sauna, cold exposure, Ozone, etc.

If you think of HBOT as hormetic, the varied responses to the treatment seen on this thread make perfect sense.

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foxy loxy
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Lyme MD has told me that since 1.3 isn't as strong as 1.5 staying longer in a home chamber could possibly be equivalent to the 1.5 chambers which in his experience have been more successful.

THAT is his reasoning. I think too it depends on your condition. I have a delicate nervous system and he has been more cautious about the length of time with me.

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susank
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Pho - thanks. Just wanted to know for my own info.
Also after mentioning to my allergist/immuno that I was getting a chamber - he asked if 100% O2 and I said no. I could not tell him what percentage on the O2. Felt kind of stupid about that.

When researching hyperbarics and O2 - mostly it's mentioned 100%. I had to explain to the doctor that I was getting a "mild" chamber - as I think he was getting a bit concerned.

As an aside - he is a scuba diver.

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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Karenthebeetlady
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Hi Everyone! I just wanted to share an update on my son, Cullen. He has just completed week 9 of diving and is showing great improvements in his GI health and brain clearing. Cullen is 21 and has had a spectacularly clean diet for 8 years. He has not used drug therapy and the herbals we tried, he abandoned within the first week because they gave him GI distress. He is diving for 1 hour each day and is up to 15 minutes with the mask and has added several foods to his limited diet and is more interactive and conversational. He spends less time in his Media Room and more time with us now. We see the healing and he said he feels it too. I am so grateful to have found this modality and the gift of knowing Phoiph who has brought this into our lives. I hope you all experience the same healing.

--------------------
Karen j. Dame

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willbeatthis
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Phoiph... Thank you! Your call and help has been a true gift. I will be staying in touch!

Foxy - do you go to Lyme MD? How are you doing overall with your treatment. I'm so glad to see he supports this modality- I've always thought a lot of him.

Karen- How truly wonderful for Cullen and your family... continue to keep us posted please!

Digby- thanks for the info on Hormesis!

To all that contribute... THANK you! WBT

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Karenthebeetlady
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Thank you, willbeatthis, I surely will.

--------------------
Karen j. Dame

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susank
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I have been researching the "Borrelia cannot survive" levels.

I am confused - Fife said something like 30-160 mm Hg?

There's a devil in the detail here - as that range looks close to levels w/o using a chamber.

I have seen mm HG expressed:

No chamber,
1.3 ATA with or without supplement O2,
1.5 ATA and up with 100% O2.

Has it been determined which of these can/cannot have a negative effect on Borrelia?

Anyone have the data on the levels?

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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Phoiph
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susank...

Here's a link to the study you're referring to:

Effects of Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy on Lyme Disease: hbotxofpalmbeach.com/study_pdfs/Lyme-Fife

Here's a quote from that study:

"...the spirochete could not survive in an oxygen partial pressure of 160-mm Hg (the partial pressure of oxygen in air), but could survive in a partial pressure of 30-mm Hg (which is the partial pressure of 4% oxygen at 1 atmosphere, absolute (ground level pressure). Therefore, it seems clear that a lethal level of oxygen for the spirochete falls somewhere between 30 mm Hg, and 160mm Hg.

It also is known that while the inspired partial pressure of oxygen is approximately 160 mm Hg, at the tissue level, the partial pressure of oxygen normally is approximately 30-35 mm Hg.
Thus, it would not be expected that breathing air at ground level would cause any damage to the spirochete..."

Unfortunately, although this study determined a range of 02 levels that can kill spirochetes (using higher pressures), it didn't attempt to determine the lowest level of tissue saturation necessary to kill spirochetes.

To further muddy the waters, tissue saturation levels vary from person to person and day to day, as do other variables, such as breathing rates, elevation, etc., making the levels difficult to determine in the body.

I do think it is somewhat misguided to focus too much on the "kill-spirochete" aspect of mHBOT (although by my rough calculations it does fall in the vicinity of the maim/kill range). More important is the engagement and empowerment of the formidable immune system to do its job again...

This is likely why some people have become well using only pressure, with no supplemental 02. The saturation levels would not technically become high enough to kill spirochetes, however, they may be raised high enough to turn on healing genes and fortify the immune system, etc.

On the flip side, some people with Lyme who have done short term, higher pressures (HBOT, not mHBOT) have not maintained their gains. IMO, although they may be killing spirochetes, they may not be getting the long term benefits of healing the immune and other body systems to fight the battle necessary for the long haul.

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susank
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Tks Pho.
The "kill" aspect had not been my focus - but.. reading about mHBOT and CP - had to wonder.
(Cerebral palsy).
You probably know the study to which I will refer - the HBOT and the "sham" controls.
(Doctors Mukherjee, Collet etc).
HBOT vs HBAT.
HBOT with supplemental O2.
HBAT ambient air.
Supposedly the outcome of the "study" showed no significant difference for those children - HBOT vs HBAT.
What could that mean for pathogens? For fibro, pain syndromes etc.?

Also - for me - I have the added burden of having an immune deficiency. I have stopped IVIG/SCIG for a few months. The doctor wants to do testing off gammaglobulin replacement. I know my baseline total IGG. (low as well as three subclasses).
Anyway - will be curious to see what my IGG level will be in Sept.
Will mHBOT have done something - like help my immune system?
Or have incapacitated (decapitated!!!) some spirochetes -perhaps helping my immune system?
Will see.......

Point: having a very compromised immune system - well - complicates things. I don't know if my immune system can be fortified.

By my own choice I am not taking antibiotics or doing IVIG. This is risky business - but I could not tolerate the ABx anymore.

I seem to have trouble with the small amount of supplemental O2 - so will be diving sometimes with it - and sometimes not.

I certainly feel like I am herxing.
It feels like something is dying.

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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Phoiph
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Just pressure alone raises the amount of 02 concentration within the chamber.

The fact that both groups...those using just pressure, and those using pressure with supplemental 02, showed benefit over short term treatment suggests that general healing reactions can occur with even slight increases in 02.

The few people I know that have used and benefitted by pressure alone have done sessions 2x per day (although I wouldn't suggest this when using supplemental 02). Those people had pathogens, "fibro"-like syndromes, pain,cognitive issues, etc.

Possibly, it is a matter of dosage...

It is possible that 2x per day with just pressure may be roughly equivalent to 1x a day with pressure and supplemental 02...but this would be difficult to measure, with all the variables from person to person.

Of course I believe your immune system can be fortified!

I think it is most important right now to be consistent with your diving, rather than be overly concerned about the supplemental 02 via mask. You are still receiving benefit with just pressure, especially if you are flowing the 02 in the chamber.

Of course...diet and reducing "body burdens"/exposure to toxins as much as possible is huge...

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Monti
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Phoiph,

Thank you for all the time you spend answering posts and helping others.

If someone isn't able to tolerate 02 thru a mask but can tolerate it flowing into the chamber near their head, would diving once a day for 1.5 hours be a good treatment plan compared to two one hour dives w/out 02?

My preference would be to do it all at once but I don't want to sacrifice benefit.

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foxy loxy
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Foxy - do you go to Lyme MD? How are you doing overall with your treatment. I'm so glad to see he supports this modality- I've always thought a lot of him.

[/QB][/QUOTE]

Yes Willbeatthis, I have been seeing Lyme MD for probably a year now.

He is a very kind person, and does what he can, and is available which means a lot to me.

Currently, I am at 233 dives. The first three months were not full dives.

I am now off all antibiotics which is exciting. Not sure what would have happened without the mHBOT but I certainly am not worsening.

It is really hard to tell if it is really doing anything, because if it is working it is terribly slow in my case.

On a good day I think it is helping. On a bad day, I get discouraged.

overall I am doing as well as I ever have. I am encouraged enough to keep at it.

I am now doing one and a half hour dives because that is what my Dr. told me to do. not sure I noticed much difference. If anything it is better than before, but that might have happened anyway.

Sorry, there is no definitive report. That is why I haven't written in for a while. [bow]

Hope this helps people!! Monti, how are you doing?

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Digby
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Susank, consider that a boost to your immune system can cause a herx too. I think we are missing the mark by focusing on trying to kill Borrelia.

Enhancing immune function is a much better way to remove bugs and improve health.

Having said that, I do think that testing for and treatment of co-infections might be necessary, but only to lower the bacterial load, making the immune system's job a little easier.

I did see that you have an "immune deficiency" but I can't comment on that without more information.

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toyswalk
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At dive 150 I decided to add 02 back to my dives, tube to the side. That went well so I decided to add 15 minutes mask time at dive 170. I felt a little fatigue the first day but decided to push through. After day three of 15 min mask time in a row, my energy was so zapped I could hardly get out of the chamber. I decided to ditch the mask (let 02 flow to the side) and pulse using the mask every other day. By day 178, I removed the supplemental 02.

Forward to today, dive 190, twelve days since I unplugged the supplemental oxygen and I'm having my best day since starting out! I may add 02 again with tubing to the side at dive 200. But, for now, I'm losing the mask. I'll take the slow, steady route. Or, I may consider longer dives. I need physical assistance getting in and out of the chamber, inconveniencing someone else to help me twice a day is not realistic.

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toyswalk
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Curious if anyone that has had difficulty adding supplemental oxygen has done their genetics/23andme?

If so, what is your SOD status?

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project
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I tried my first mHBOT session at a local chiropractor's office yesterday. I believe it was an Oxyhealth Respiro with supplemental oxygen via a mask.
I was in for 60 minutes and I think it did trigger a mild herx. However I feel pretty good today.

I've been researching them a bit more and came across this statement:

"A typical mild HBT session will involve pressurisation to 1.3 ATA breathing 30% oxygen for about one hour. Under these conditions, each breath has an oxygen pressure of 0.4 ATA (296 mmHg) and the arterial pressure is likely to reach a more modest 0.3 ATA (230 mmHg). This is the same oxygen pressure that can be attained by breathing about 35% oxygen at sea level. To put it another way – this amount of oxygen can easily be achieved with out the use of the chamber at all."

http://wesleyhyperbaric.com.au/treatment-information/for-patients/therapeutic-hbot-v-mild-hbt-synopsis/

Can anyone confirm if this is accurate? Has anyone tried breathing oxygen without a chamber?

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Phoiph
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quote:
Originally posted by Monti:
Phoiph,

Thank you for all the time you spend answering posts and helping others.

If someone isn't able to tolerate 02 thru a mask but can tolerate it flowing into the chamber near their head, would diving once a day for 1.5 hours be a good treatment plan compared to two one hour dives w/out 02?

My preference would be to do it all at once but I don't want to sacrifice benefit.

Hi Monti...

Thanks for the kind words...

Given the option, my vote would be diving once per day w/02 flowing vs. 2x per day without...

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Phoiph
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quote:
Originally posted by project:
I tried my first mHBOT session at a local chiropractor's office yesterday. I believe it was an Oxyhealth Respiro with supplemental oxygen via a mask.
I was in for 60 minutes and I think it did trigger a mild herx. However I feel pretty good today.

I've been researching them a bit more and came across this statement:

"A typical mild HBT session will involve pressurisation to 1.3 ATA breathing 30% oxygen for about one hour. Under these conditions, each breath has an oxygen pressure of 0.4 ATA (296 mmHg) and the arterial pressure is likely to reach a more modest 0.3 ATA (230 mmHg). This is the same oxygen pressure that can be attained by breathing about 35% oxygen at sea level. To put it another way – this amount of oxygen can easily be achieved with out the use of the chamber at all."

http://wesleyhyperbaric.com.au/treatment-information/for-patients/therapeutic-hbot-v-mild-hbt-synopsis/

Can anyone confirm if this is accurate? Has anyone tried breathing oxygen without a chamber?

project...

Congratulations on your first dive...

Just like anything else, when you research HBOT/mHBOT, you have to take into consideration that there are 2 sides to every story, and information may be presented in a way that supports one side or the other.

In the case of mHBOT vs. HBOT, there are often 2 "camps". A more extreme faction of the high pressure, HBOT camp has an investment in selling clinical HBOT sessions, and would very much like to discourage the use of mild, home chambers for obvious reasons.

Of course, certain conditions respond to higher pressures, others to lower...both are beneficial in the appropriate situation.

The statement you quoted is referring to the use of mild pressure with some supplemental 02 (i.e., a mild chamber with 30% O2 would be equivalent to flowing the 02 into the chamber and mixing with compressed room air, but not actually wearing the mask), and compares this to breathing slightly more 02 (35% from an oxygen source) at sea level (without additional pressure).

It states, "...this amount of oxygen can easily be achieved with out the use of the chamber at all..."

IMO, even if the math were correct, there are a few reasons why this is not a linear comparison. The major reason I see is that when someone breathes supplemental 02 (without pressure) even at sea level, the blood (hemoglobin) can only carry so many oxygen molecules before it becomes saturated. At that point, there are many variables (e.g., PH level, temperature, circulation, etc.) that determine how much of that 02 will reach the tissues.

On the other hand, when 02 is breathed while under pressure, once the hemoglobin fills to capacity, the additional oxygen molecules are forced into plasma, spinal fluid, tissues, etc., by the pressure, greatly increasing the likelihood of 02 perfusion into the tissues.

Oxygen starved tissue is very sensitive to small changes in oxygen tension, and many healing reactions can begin to occur on the cellular level when hypoxic tissues begin to receive 02. This is one of the many reasons why there is an advantage to breathing 02 under pressure (vs. supplemental 02 alone), as there appears to be an independent effect.

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