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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Mild Hyperbaric Treatment (Page 56)

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Author Topic: Mild Hyperbaric Treatment
Kaibyrd
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No, I don’t really dive much any more. Every time I try, I end up much worse fatigue wise and my sleep gets worse if I try to push through. I tried again last week but I have a vacation coming up next week that I need energy for so I stopped after 3 days at 20 minutes. I’ll try again after vacay but I think I’ll try every other day this time. I did a sauna session after the first dive last week but I think I need much more detox. My brain is so scrambled and so much of life is a struggle that I forget to do things like detox every day.

--------------------
KB

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keikko
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Oh geez! I get it Kaibyrd. That makes sense, I am pretty lost and no energy right now. I hope you get your energy back for your vacation and have nice trip.

I understand, my brain gets so scrambled I know I'm supposed to eat but can't even really figure it out. I hope it gets easier. I need to figure out how to detox better. Mostly my brain.

Thank you!

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kgg
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Keikko, I am so sorry to hear this but don't give up! You were almost there. Yay! Phoiph talks about the 2 step forward one back process this treatment takes. Sounds like you hit one.

Interesting that you had a vaccine injury as a nurse. I did too. Although I did not realize it at the time. But after my hep B series I was done working.

It has been a few days since you posted. What did you end up doing? Taking a break, then restart at a less time or went back to 45 minutes?

I used to take a 2-3 day break then start back at a reduced time for a couple of days. I just was so tired of feeling poorly that I really baby stepped the whole process so I didn't crash hard.

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keikko
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Thank you kgg. I have not been back in the chamber since last Wednesday, so 5 days break, and I still feel so bad. Like I can't get back to my baseline .
I zero energy and my brain is on another planet [Smile] I was thinking about getting in today for like 20mins to see what happens.

I'm sorry you had a vaccine injury too as a nurse. Mine was Hep B too, at least one of them. I got three vaccines in one day when I transferred to a new hospital and one was hep b, MMR, and flu. It was over.

So I guess I am in a crash but what do I do? Just wait? or get back in ? I dont know. At least my anxiety has calmed and now I'm just tired. Thank you

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kgg
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I am really glad that your anxiety calmed down. That is the worst, imo. I think I like the sound of starting at 20 minutes. Not sure when. That would be your call.

I used to weigh how I felt with what I had going on that day and the next. If I was a little better or stable in symptoms, I would dive. If I wasn't I would wait. Hope that makes sense.

Keep us posted on what you decide to do and how it worked. I am hoping, you will be OK and can start ramping up again.

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Phoiph
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaibyrd:
No, I don’t really dive much any more. Every time I try, I end up much worse fatigue wise and my sleep gets worse if I try to push through. I tried again last week but I have a vacation coming up next week that I need energy for so I stopped after 3 days at 20 minutes. I’ll try again after vacay but I think I’ll try every other day this time. I did a sauna session after the first dive last week but I think I need much more detox. My brain is so scrambled and so much of life is a struggle that I forget to do things like detox every day.

Kaibyrd,
I'm not suprised that you could become more tired or your sleep could be affected with mHBOT at this stage. Among other things, mHBOT ramps up your metabolic system, which is like exercise for your body.

I don't agree that you need more detox; in fact I think doing sauna after your mHBOT session is way too much right now. Remember that released toxins also need to be transported out of your body, and by combining therapies, you could be releasing faster than your body can clear.

Drink lots of water, eat squeaky cleanly, and stay away from toxins of all kinds. Do yoga to increase circulation, improve breathing, and move lymph.

I would start back up as slowly as you need to, since you've been away from mHBOT for awhile.

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Phoiph
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keikko,

I know you've been struggling a lot...but please take kgg's advice and don't give up!

I know you are frustrated that it is taking a while to get to full protocol, but this is a process, and although it doesn't feel like it right now, you are still receiving benefit.

Things are being stirred up, and that is often uncomfortable. I know of many people who felt no progress for a long time (for me it was several months at full protocol). I actually wouldn't expect you to feel better at this point...just "different", whatever that may be.

Your body doesn't care how you feel during the process, it just does what it needs to peel back and shed the layers. If your immune system becomes activated and begins taking care of pathogens, it may not feel nice at all, just like when you have the flu.

At this early stage, I would still listen closely to your body and go in the chamber on the days you can tolerate it, then give yourself a break in between if symptoms flare too badly.

You are not alone in this!

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Kaibyrd
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Phoiph,

I thought that sauna use would help transport released toxins from the body through sweating. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I’ll try to get some yoga in instead after vacation and recovery from vacation. 🤪

Thanks!

--------------------
KB

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keikko
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Thank you Kgg and Phoiph. I appreciate the feed back, seriously!

I will keep you posted. I am still in something, not sure why its taking so long to calm down.

I appreciate the support! I'm not giving up. It just feels like a set back but maybe its not. I dont know anymore [Smile]

Thank you!

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Phoiph
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keikko,

I totally understand. I just didn't have anyone to ask for comparison, so I mindlessly plodded forward without expectation or belief that this would help me.

To my surprise, things began to shift. It didn't necessarily feel like it was for the better, just different, so without another option left, I doggedly and blindly continued. That 2 step forward, 1 step back process eventually see-sawed into wellness.

The "not knowing" is very difficult, but unfortunately is part of the process.

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Phoiph
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaibyrd:
Phoiph,

I thought that sauna use would help transport released toxins from the body through sweating. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I’ll try to get some yoga in instead after vacation and recovery from vacation. 🤪

Thanks!

Kaibyrd,

Yes, of course, in theory that is the idea. But, it also creates "work" for the body by raising the heart rate, and possibly imbalancing electrolytes through sweating.

If someone is fragile, toxic, and has a compromised ability to detox, they may not be able to eliminate the extra toxic load that is released quickly enough.

Since you are already detoxifying and raising your metabolic activity through mHBOT, the combination of mHBOT and sauna this early on can be way too much. (You are still at a stage where you can only handle so much mHBOT.)

I never used sauna, but others on this site who have combined it with mHBOT early on ended up having to back off.

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Kaibyrd
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Phoiph,

Thanks so much for the explanation. I’ll stay away from it till I’m doing better.

--------------------
KB

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carbokitty
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Hi all~
I'm following the above discussions. I, too, found it was too much for me to combine treatments, specifically mHBOT and sauna in the same day.
Remember peimama (I think that was her name??)-she did a lot of coffee enemas to help with detox after mHBOT. Just a thought.

I am still struggling with my mold exposure and now SIBO. I think I will need to discard my chamber, which breaks my heart. But this has been such an intense and challenging journey of ill health and I can't afford to get back into a chamber with 1 mold spore in it.

In the meantime, I had been going to the clinic near me. (It was 3 blocks away until I moved and now it's a 25 min drive). Early on in this illness and after I discovered mold in the chamber, I was going 4-5 times/week. However, as I said, things have gotten worse. I'm treating SIBO now with antimicrobials. Maybe it's too much die off? I was scheduling 3 in a row and was not good after the 2nd one and over 2 weeks, cancelled the 3rd one. I think now I've decided to go back to 40 min dives, which is what I did for the first 4 months of mHBOT.

It's hard to get used to where my body is now. I was at dive #800 and had been diving every day and then 5 days a week because of my work schedule and never really, in recent days experiencing anything but positive (although if I'm being honest, it did sometimes affect my sleep-but almost everything does!). And to adjust to my new normal-I'm having to pace myself in all areas of my life and activity.

I just met with a practitioner today who had originally diagnosed my SIBO back in 2014. (I had to wait 6 weeks to get in). She is tweaking my treatment plan some and I'm feeling the tiniest bit hopeful that this will have an impact.

In the meantime, I have scheduled a 40 min mHBOT on Friday and we'll see from there.

(If you know anyone who might want a chamber with (non-visible) mold spores, let me know. I asked if Newtown wanted it back for the brass parts and Marie said no).

Happy diving!
Carbokitty

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LadyT
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Hi All, Does mHBOT heal histamine issues - so after diving for a certain period of time, you no longer need to watch histamines, eat low histamine diet, etc. Thank you!
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chillpill
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Phoiph, your generosity on this thread is galactic. Thank you to everyone for keeping this thread going. I have been studying this incredible thread and taking notes. I am up to page 27 and the number of people you have helped is incredible.

I am considering buying an OxyHealth chamber and wondering if you or anyone has promo codes or anything to reduce the cost? I'm over in Europe so everything is more expensive (taxes taxes taxes).

I sent you a PM too.

Thanks in advance if anyone can help.

--------------------
Putting lyme, bart, bab into remission

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kgg
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Welcome, chillpill. I like that name. =) Have you looked at NewTowne chambers? Not as pretty but functions the same and is less money. I have had both and am very happy with the Newtowne. One of the reasons I changed was the cost. I do not know of any codes they use.

LadyT, I do not know specifically. I do know that the use of mHBO seems to modify the immune's reaction. If it is hyper it calms it. If it is underreacting to pathogens it increases it. Hope that makes sense as I am only on my first cup of coffee.

Carbokitty, I am so sorry to hear that you have to not use your own chamber! Uggh. And that you are feeling so poorly lately. It is very hard to re-adjust to pacing after feeling better. I found it discouraging. I tried to remember that I got better before, I will again. Hope the tweaking of the protocol continues to help you feel better!

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Phoiph
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Awwww, so kind, chillpill, thank you. I'm very glad you have found the thread helpful. It has been a group effort!
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Phoiph
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quote:
Originally posted by LadyT:
Hi All, Does mHBOT heal histamine issues - so after diving for a certain period of time, you no longer need to watch histamines, eat low histamine diet, etc. Thank you!

LadyT,

As your immune system modulates with mHBOT and diet, eventually the histamine reaction will calm down.

Whether you will always do better watching your histamine intake, that remains to be seen, but it will likely be a much less severe issue, if not a non-issue.

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carbokitty
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Hi all~
I'm sorry to say that things went from bad to worse. I ended up being hospitalized. I'm out now and just went back to a 20 min mHBOT today. I will try 40 min tomorrow. The 20 min was helpful, so fingers crossed.
Thanks for being here.
Carbokitty

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dbpei
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So sorry to hear this, carbokitty. I hope that you can gradually get back to the good place you had been before this whole mess with the mold. It is encouraging that the 20 min dive was helpful. Start slow and hang in there! I am rooting for you!
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Kaibyrd
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I’m so sorry Carbokitty!!!

I hope your mHBOT sessions continue to help!

I started back at 20 minutes yesterday but I’ll stay there for a while until I see how I respond.

Praying for you hon.

--------------------
KB

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kgg
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Carbokitty, so sorry that you had to hit such a rough patch. I hope that you recover quickly.

How did the 40 minute session yesterday go? Or did you decide to stay at 20 minutes?

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carbokitty
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I ended up doing a 30 min session and it went well. I felt better for a few hours. I will do 30 again today. Thank you for your words of support.
Carbokitty
PS My Sp02 has gone up so that's a good sign. Not sleeping any longer than 4 hours/night but I wasn't sleeping at all, so that's progress.

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Peimomma
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Hello everyone,

I’ve had some health stuff pop up recently, R/A starting in my finger joints which led me to get some labs drawn and of course my ANA came back positive but there was also Sm/RNP antibodies was positive. Does anyone have any history with this marker? I’m getting my referred to a rheumatologist to do more testing since my finger joints are definitely looking and feeling like R/A.

Im wondering if the markers being positive are for the R/A.

I’ve started diving to see if this will change the labs.

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kgg
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Peimomma, I am sorry to hear this. I looked it up. It is a marker for both Mixed Connective Tissue Disease and Lupus (without the ANA marker). So they are ruling out stuff. Both can be caused by Borrelia.

I met a Lyme patient in Mesa, while living in Arizona. She was a LLMD patient from California. Her hands were involved. He diagnosed her with Mixed Connective Tissue Disease. He put her on both steriods and antibiotics.

I was concerned with the steroid use. But her hands were so bad there was no choice. (I had not bought my chamber yet).

You were smart to start diving again.

My son was just diagnosed with Psoriatic Arthritis. I realize there is a heavy life style component to it. But since he was positive for Lyme, Bartonella, Ehrlichia and Babesia. It makes me wonder if that is why it has become an autoimmune problem.

I have had my fingers flare twice over the last 7 years. The first time all of the stiffness and pain resolved with diving again. Nothing else.

And it was weird. It involved both ring fingers and both thumbs, nothing else. This year it is my index fingers. I recently started diving again.

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Peimomma
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Thanks Kgg,

I’m definitely not a fan of steroids or antibiotics if that’s what they offer. I’ll track my progress since it’s only pain that is affecting me at this point. I’ve no other indicators that anything was wrong.

My hands started with the pain and in January the fingertips became wrinkled like they had just come out of the pool and they were numb. I was guessing it was from so much keyboarding in my job, so I stopped working from home in mid April to see if I can reverse the issue. I’d say they are about 50% better.

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Phoiph
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Peimomma,

Do you have a fingertip oximeter? It would be interesting to see what the reading is when you have the numb/wrinkled finger symptoms.

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chillpill
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Hey all. Thanks for the warm welcome :-)

I'm up to page 23 of this epic thread so not sure if this has been posted already but it's fascinating; Hyperbaric Oxygen Treatment: Effects on Mitochondrial Function and Oxidative Stress https://www.mdpi.com/2218-273X/11/12/1827

Phoiph, thanks for the PM. I sent you my email address. If you could get back to me that would be awesome as I would love to get going on this! :-)

--------------------
Putting lyme, bart, bab into remission

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Phoiph
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Thanks, chillpill!

I have gathered some info for you and will email you later today.

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Miriama
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Hi guys,

When people refer to a certain amount of time in the chamber, does that mean total time or time at high pressure? I had to dial down to only 15 minutes at the top pressure on my Newtowne gauge (4.4?), but I'm in there for a half hour total.

I've been treating for over a year, since Feb. 2021 with a 2 month break, but honestly a lot of my sessions were very short, especially in the first 5 months. After that I was doing an hour without a concentrator. I was even up to 2 hours for a while. Then I got a concentrator in September. I was hitting the treatments hard for a while, at an hour, but I had to dial it down not to be insane. I mean, I think I have friends who don't write me back because I was too wound up. I really had my heart set on the idea that if I could treat for an hour a day for 2 to 2 1/2 years I'd be somewhere between 60 percent better and in a remission. But at this rate that will take the rest of my natural life.

On a positive note guys, when I took 2 months off after 13 months of treatment, I was the sanest I've been in 12 years maybe even 19 (that's how long I've had Lyme). I was like myself again psychologically speaking, well, sort of. I had fatigue and all kinds of symptoms for sure, and no way could I keep down a job, but I'd say that 90% of the anxiety and agoraphobia were gone. But as soon as I started treating again, I could feel the acid trippyness creep back in.

That's my experience so far, just to share. Kaibyrd and Keikko, I feel your pain, really. It's been hard. But it has helped a lot in the end too. I hope you can treat enough to get to that point eventually. Good luck to you all.

--------------------
Lyme, Babesia, 18 years

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keikko
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Thank you Miriama [Smile]

What is final word on HBOT and parasites. Ive been looking through the thread for a couple of days and cant find it of course.

Im pretty sure I have an underlying parasite infection that doesn't help things. I think I remember reading that eventually the immune system gets back on line and these things are not a big issue anymore but I could be wrong.

Honesty, I have no idea anymore what the biggest issue is. I sort of dont care, but if HBOT doesn't help parasites I may have to treat. Im so thin with no appetite but eat no matter what.

Im still not up to full protocol but still diving at least every other day and sometimes two days in a row depending on the reaction and how bad my brain gets...about 40 minutes with O2. Ive pretty much given up on supplements at the moment except probiotics and CBD oil for anxiety.

I got covid this year so I think that was a set back for sure but I'm sure the chamber will help.

I do remember one day in the recent past getting out of the chamber feeling sort of clear headed and calm. It was nice. Short lived but nice.

I have not noticed a whole lot of forward improvement yet but as I said I got covid and seems like Im always catching something lately. Well one thing that has improved is my digestion is much more stable which is awesome. Brain is worse but gut is better. Fatigue worse. I am not discouraged though. Feel calm or maybe just really tired. I dont know. Thank you

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Kaibyrd
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Thanks Miriama.

I’ve worked up to an hour now, finally. I’ll start adding O2 tomorrow.

I suddenly have another urgent issue that’s bothering me.

2 years ago I noticed a long, thin(ish) lump in the soft tissue beside my jaw, under my tongue. They thought it was a blocked saliva gland.

I had it looked at and the ENT I was sent to said she would have to put me under general to take it out but if it wasn’t bothering me, there was no rush to remove it. There was no indication of cancer and Covid was raging, plus it seemed to stop bothering me and didn’t change any over the next 2 years. I also do horribly with general anesthesia. I didn’t get the surgery then.

Last month my lymph node swelled up under my jaw. I went in to have it checked but the doc I saw said there wasn’t really anything to do for it unless it didn’t go away with home care. It started going down so I didn’t think much about it and it was almost gone by the time we went on vacation (thank you, Jesus!).

Right after we got back it swelled up again and this time it’s not budging. In just the past week I felt another long thin line pop up under my tongue right beside the first one and it’s now as big as the first one. I feel a drawing sensation like I’m sucking on lemons and the area is sometimes a bit painful when I eat.

I have a standing appointment with my GP Thursday so I’ve been waiting to see her about this too.

This all seems to correlate to mHBOT use. Any ideas what’s happening here?

--------------------
KB

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kgg
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Kaibyrd, congratulations on getting up to an hour!

I have found over the years that the body decides what it is going to heal and when. I know that since it is flaring that it may seem like mHBOT is making it worse, but the body is saying time to deal with this. imo

If this was me, I would have it out. But I would be having a discussion with the anesthetist. Tell them your reaction to general before. If it was in the same system they may be able to look up exactly what was used.

Then they can modify what to use, hopefully so you won't have the same reaction.

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kgg
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Keikko, I do not know the final word on parasites. Have you been tested? I know a few missionaries that picked up parasites in the countries they were living in. They would treat. One guy was really sick with them. They wrecked his gut.

Parasites are part of life. But if you have an abundance it may be prudent to treat. imo

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kgg
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Miriama, I am in the chamber a total of 70-80 minutes depending on how fast I pressurize and depressurize. I do not count the time not up to pressure.

I have a Newtowne. Yes, the gauge typically says 4.4 No worries.

Hang in there. I still have my chamber and use my chamber. I have no plans on selling it. I had Lyme for a long time prior to treatment. To keep it suppressed, mHBO is something I want available for the rest of my life. Even though I am not diving daily.

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kgg
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Kaibyrd, regarding your anesthesia reaction. Do a search on CFS/ME and anesthesia. Lyme patients tend to react like they do. There are a number of posts about what to do to help.

For example, making sure your Magnesium and Potassium levels are within normal limits. Hydrating prior to and during surgery, (they can run IVs).

And some of the articles speak specifically to the type of anesthesia used, so that they will avoid them or use a reduced amount.

Do some prior research so you are informed and can have a successful conversation with the anesthesiologist.

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Peimomma
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Kaibyrd there is a homeopathic tincture you can take under your tongue to help clear your lymph system. I started taking it when I was diving because I felt like my lymph system was “full”. The name of it is Whole Body Detox Liquescence. If you have never used homeopathic remedies I can give you some information. Remedies are very sensitive so you can’t take them with strong scents like after brushing your teeth with mint toothpaste or when drinking coffee.

I still use it when I dive to help things move along.

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Kaibyrd
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Thanks kgg and Peimomma!!! I will look into these.

--------------------
KB

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Bartenderbonnie
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Phoiph and all the other committed mHOT posters;

Thank you for your continued advocacy for mHBOT 💚
You have HELPED so many Lyme sufferers !!!

Quick question. . .

My brother is in town and is an avid scuba diver.
I was explaining to him my interest in mHBOT.
The closest facility is 1 hour away and cost is 100.00 an hour which is unsustainable.

I was thinking out of the box and asked if I starting doing 100% of my swimming exercises under water, that overtime it might offer me the same benefits of mHBOT. My pool’s deepest end is 6 foot.

My brother said my goal of achieving a 2.4 pressure (is that the therapeutic dive in mHBOT?) then I would need to dive 70 feet deep in water as it’s .33 pressure per foot.

Your thoughts please.
Thanks again for all you do!

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Phoiph
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Hi Bartenderbonnie,

Thank you for the kind words.

Well, unfortunately, it's not quite the same thing.

We use 1.3ATA (4.2psi), which is about the same pressure as 10-11 feet underwater. (Mild hyperbaric is defined as 1.5ATA or lower.)

Also, the oxygen you would be breathing for scuba diving would likely be a different gas mix (your brother would know).

Plus, ideally, you wouldn't want to be exercising during your dive, as it burns the 02 you are needing to saturate your tissues with for therapy. IMO, hyperbaric works best while passively resting.

Alternately, having access to a home chamber would be the answer. If buying your own is too costly, renting or sharing a rental with a couple of other people can bring the cost way down. Let me know if you would like info on options.

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Phoiph
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quote:
Originally posted by Miriama:
Hi guys,

When people refer to a certain amount of time in the chamber, does that mean total time or time at high pressure? I had to dial down to only 15 minutes at the top pressure on my Newtowne gauge (4.4?), but I'm in there for a half hour total.

I've been treating for over a year, since Feb. 2021 with a 2 month break, but honestly a lot of my sessions were very short, especially in the first 5 months. After that I was doing an hour without a concentrator. I was even up to 2 hours for a while. Then I got a concentrator in September. I was hitting the treatments hard for a while, at an hour, but I had to dial it down not to be insane. I mean, I think I have friends who don't write me back because I was too wound up. I really had my heart set on the idea that if I could treat for an hour a day for 2 to 2 1/2 years I'd be somewhere between 60 percent better and in a remission. But at this rate that will take the rest of my natural life.

On a positive note guys, when I took 2 months off after 13 months of treatment, I was the sanest I've been in 12 years maybe even 19 (that's how long I've had Lyme). I was like myself again psychologically speaking, well, sort of. I had fatigue and all kinds of symptoms for sure, and no way could I keep down a job, but I'd say that 90% of the anxiety and agoraphobia were gone. But as soon as I started treating again, I could feel the acid trippyness creep back in.

That's my experience so far, just to share. Kaibyrd and Keikko, I feel your pain, really. It's been hard. But it has helped a lot in the end too. I hope you can treat enough to get to that point eventually. Good luck to you all.

Hi Miriama,

To compare apples to apples, I would keep track of all of your dives, but when you start to compare your progress to others, it is helpful if everyone compares the time spent at "full protocol" (i.e., 1 hour daily with full pressure and supplemental 02).

That said, it does not mean that you are not making progress while working up to that protocol, as you have experienced.

Try to make your approach more systematic and consistent. For example, work up to a full hour with just allowing the oxygen to flow in, but not wearing the mask. Once you are tolerating that, add wearing the mask for the last 10 minutes of your dive, and keep working up slowly over time until you are wearing it for the full hour.

Keep going...you are seeing the window of progress everyone looks for to know they are on the right track. It doesn't matter that your symptoms resurfaced when you started mHBOT again; I would expect that at the stage you're at. Just keep moving forward with it and be as consistent as you can be.

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Phoiph
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quote:
Originally posted by keikko:
Thank you Miriama [Smile]

What is final word on HBOT and parasites. Ive been looking through the thread for a couple of days and cant find it of course.

Im pretty sure I have an underlying parasite infection that doesn't help things. I think I remember reading that eventually the immune system gets back on line and these things are not a big issue anymore but I could be wrong.

Honesty, I have no idea anymore what the biggest issue is. I sort of dont care, but if HBOT doesn't help parasites I may have to treat. Im so thin with no appetite but eat no matter what.

Im still not up to full protocol but still diving at least every other day and sometimes two days in a row depending on the reaction and how bad my brain gets...about 40 minutes with O2. Ive pretty much given up on supplements at the moment except probiotics and CBD oil for anxiety.

I got covid this year so I think that was a set back for sure but I'm sure the chamber will help.

I do remember one day in the recent past getting out of the chamber feeling sort of clear headed and calm. It was nice. Short lived but nice.

I have not noticed a whole lot of forward improvement yet but as I said I got covid and seems like Im always catching something lately. Well one thing that has improved is my digestion is much more stable which is awesome. Brain is worse but gut is better. Fatigue worse. I am not discouraged though. Feel calm or maybe just really tired. I dont know. Thank you

Keikko,

The changes you are experiencing (better digestion, windows of clearer thinking, calmer) may not seem earthshattering to you, but they are great signs that you're going in the right direction.

I personally would not consider rocking the boat right now by treating parasites. I would wait and see how you are after you have more mHBOT under your belt.

Congrats to getting to 40 minutes with 02! You're getting there. Good for you for sticking with it during the rough and uncertain times you've recently experienced. Never give up!

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Phoiph
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quote:
Originally posted by carbokitty:
I ended up doing a 30 min session and it went well. I felt better for a few hours. I will do 30 again today. Thank you for your words of support.
Carbokitty
PS My Sp02 has gone up so that's a good sign. Not sleeping any longer than 4 hours/night but I wasn't sleeping at all, so that's progress.

Update Carbokitty?
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carbokitty
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Hi Phoiph + everyone-
I am not doing well. I find my blood sugar drops after/during 30 minutes mHBOT. I’ve done about 8 30 min sessions. But instead of feeling good as I had before, I end up not feeling well + my anxiety gets very bad.
This week I did a session on Monday + again yesterday. Last night I ended up calling 911. My insomnia is so bad. They checked all my vitals + said everything was ok. (My sleeping heart rate is now up to 81. It used to be 66-67) and last night it was close to 100 as I was trying to get to sleep. Anyway, I’ve decided to take a little break. Again, I don’t know if the mHBOT is creating too much detox for my body to handle right now. Sure is all different from my experience in 2019 when I started. Thanks for asking.
Carbokitty

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carbokitty
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Hi Phoiph + everyone-
I am not doing well. I find my blood sugar drops after/during 30 minutes mHBOT. I’ve done about 8 30 min sessions. But instead of feeling good as I had before, I end up not feeling well + my anxiety gets very bad.
This week I did a session on Monday + again yesterday. Last night I ended up calling 911. My insomnia is so bad. They checked all my vitals + said everything was ok. (My sleeping heart rate is now up to 81. It used to be 66-67) and last night it was close to 100 as I was trying to get to sleep. Anyway, I’ve decided to take a little break. Again, I don’t know if the mHBOT is creating too much detox for my body to handle right now. Sure is all different from my experience in 2019 when I started. Thanks for asking.
Carbokitty

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Phoiph
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I'm so sorry to hear, Carbokitty.

It is so disheartening to experience a setback after you've been doing well. That said, "one never crosses the same river twice", and I'm optimistic that recovery from this will take less time than before.

Maybe you've done this already, but when you do start mHBOT again, try eating a small protein meal before your dive (and bring something in with you) to avoid the blood sugar drop.

Please keep us posted, we're thinking of you.

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Kaibyrd
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Hang in there Carbokitty! I know anxiety only too well. If you’ve had the slightest inclination to think mHBOT is making it worse, it will. That’s just the nature of the beast. Get the anxiety under control first but be careful with Rx meds. They’ll tell you they aren’t addictive but they don’t tell you you shouldn’t take them for more than a few months. I’ve had success with supplements such as valerian, magnesium, Pharma gaba and 5htp. These also help with sleep. Your resting heart rate is so high because the anxiety isn’t shutting off when you do fall asleep. Also try breathing exercises and try to get to the root cause of your anxiety. Once you know you can tame it, it no longer threatens your every move. Praying for you hon!

--------------------
KB

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keikko
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Thank you Kgg and Phoiph. Yes, I dont know that I could handle parasite treatment and mHBOT same time anyway. Thank you for the encouragement as well!

Carbokitty, I'm sorry to hear things are rough right now. I hope this shifts for you soon!

Question, I am going on a trip to see my sister in a few weeks, driving there. I will bring the chamber as I will be gone a week. Do I just take the frame out and bring the bag? And then just kind of hold it up to inflate it without the frame? Thank you!

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Phoiph
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Yes, that will work, keikko.

When you unpack your chamber, you can inflate and deflate it once while you are on the outside to get the major creases out before you use it.

(Be sure your concentrator is also on if it is hooked up to the chamber.)

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bodhi
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Does anyone here have experience preventing or working through panic attacks during mHBOT?

This didn't happen to me for the first 20+ sessions at the clinic. I now have my own Newtowne 27' chamber. I've had one panic attack on the second session, and had to depressurize and get out after a 30 minute session. I was drenched in sweat. I've done about 15 daily sessions, for about an hour usually. One common pattern seems to be that it happens when I'm getting too hot. I've had another few times where I started to panic; I would take the mask off for a minute and take my clothes off to cool down. It seems to be partly attributed to the combination of the heat and the pressure of the mask on my mouth (rebreather mask). On cooler days, it's been significantly less likely to occur. I've been looking into how I could cool the air coming into the chamber.

Please let me know if you have any other suggestions or experiences to share.

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Kaibyrd
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Heat will do that to me as well.

I knew I had claustrophobia before trying mHBOT. I went to a local clinic just to see if I could get in one. It was a Summit to Sea very large chamber but it was horizontal and I couldn’t even let them zip me in. I ended up purchasing S2S’s largest chamber which I can stand up in but can also lay on a huge beanbag. Even then I had to have a glass of wine before I could zip myself into it the first time. I think the size of it helps with the heat issue plus I have it in my basement which is always cool.

Do you have yours in a cool room? There are ways to cool the air coming into the unit as well as portable fans that might help.

Also try deep breathing exercises daily to help calm your mind and if needed, there are calming supplements such as valerian or Pharma GABA that may help. I have anxiety apart from claustrophobia that these methods help.

--------------------
KB

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Phoiph
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Hi bodhi,

Do you mean that you are using a a "non-rebreather" mask with a bag attached? Do not use a non-rebreather mask! You can use a simple Hudson-type mask, or an Southmedic brand oxy-mask (more open design). Here are links for both:

https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Oxygen-Mask-6-6-Tubing/dp/B07PPN1QT4/ref=pd_bxgy_img_sccl_2/144-7776420-6947943?pd_rd_w=pS7Ja&content-id=amzn1.sym.7757a8b5-874e-4a67-9d85-54ed32f01737 &pf_rd_p=7757a8b5-874e-4a67-9d85-54ed32f01737&pf_rd_r=TQB2DYN346W9HDHH885C&pd_rd_wg=AS3Dy&pd_rd_r=41f92c87-8782-47e0-bc73-d4791a5706d9&pd_rd_i=B07PPN1QT4&psc=1

https://www.vitalitymedical.com/southmedic-oxymask-oxygen-mask-for-sale.html

To prevent your blood sugar from dropping in the chamber (which can lead to anxiety), eat a small protein meal before going in, and take a snack in with you.

To keep cooler, you can take a blue ice block in (wrapped in a thin towel) and place it on your chest.

Also, separate the concentrator and compressor as much as possible, as they both generate heat and that will be sucked up into the chamber. You can also direct an oscillating fan in the direction of the concentrator and compressor to circulate the air.

They do make coolers for home chambers, but they are pricey.

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bodhi
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Thank you Kaibyrd and Phoiph for your kind and prompt replies.

@Kaibyrd: Thank you for sharing. I've never had claustrophobia. I actually remember thinking to myself "It's a good thing I don't have claustrophobia" before the first panic attack occurred. The room isn't cool but it does have two windows that I keep open during treatments. I've been doing breathing exercises and mindfulness meditation.


@Phoiph: I meant I'm using a non-rebreather mask with the bag like this one: https://www.amazon.com/Healva-Adult-Non-rebreathing-Oxygen-Mask/dp/B09MQDWQNS/. I was under the impression that the mask with the bag attached was better as I'm breathing in more of the concentrated oxygen from the bag without mixing it with the air I'm breathing out? The only concern I could think of is potential for oxygen toxicity?

I usually have my green smoothie before I go into the chamber which is very nutrient dense and has a lot of protein. It does some organic green tea matcha powder in it which can be stimulating due to caffeine, and I might remove that ingredient to see if it helps.

I'll try bringing an ice block in with me, and will separate the concentrator and compressor. Those are good suggestions @Phoiph, thank you!

Follow-up question: I usually depressurize over a couple of minutes, how quickly can I safely depressurize? I'm not sure if it's related, but I did notice that my eyes were irritated and the veins were visible after I depressurize more quickly.

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Phoiph
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Non-rebreather masks (with the bag) are designed for higher LPM oxygen flows than we are using (as in a supervised hospital setting).

The bag may not stay sufficiently inflated, as our concentrators are already fighting the backpressure from the chamber, and there is the added pressure on the bag itself inside the pressurized chamber.

IMO, you may not get optimal 02 at best, and at worst, the bag could collapse while someone is asleep or becomes unconscious for any reason, power failure, etc.

The Southmedic mask should work very well for you as it is an open design, and feels less restrictive.

I would remove the caffeine source for sure.

Try to depressurize slowly...over 10 minutes minimum if possible.

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bodhi
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@Phoiph: Thanks for the info about the non-rebreather masks (with the bag) and slow depressurization.

I've been keeping an eye on the bag while I'm in the chamber to make sure it's sufficiently inflated. I'll checkout the Southmedic which looks like it's designed for those with claustrophobia.

I also received a nasal cannula with the Drive DeVilbiss 10 LPM. I haven't tried it yet and curious if you have any thoughts.

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Phoiph
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Nasal cannulas are designed for up to 6LPM flow, so not ideal for our purposes.

(When used with a chamber, the DeVilbiss should be set at 8-8.5LPM for optimal 02 purity.)

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bodhi
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Thank you for the details @Phoiph. I looked into high flow cannulas (15 LPM), but it looks like they're not really designed for chambers. I'm curious, where can I find info about oxygen purity based on LPM for the DeVilbiss?
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Phoiph
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On p.EN-12 of your DeVilbiss Drive 10 user manual, you will find a chart:

Oxygen Concentration vs Flow Rate
Flow L/M - %O2

10...87% - 92%
9....87% - 93%
8....87% - 95%
7....87% - 96%
6....87% - 96%
5....87% - 96%
4....87% - 95%
3....87% - 95%
2....87% - 94%

My oxygen concentrator specialist contact (who also uses a DeVilbiss with his home chamber) has tested the flow/purity under use with a chamber and found 8-8.5 to be the "sweet spot".

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Phoiph
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Hang on to your home chambers, everyone...they are working on banning them:

https://www.heraldsun.com/news/local/article263053458.html

Apparently, they haven't seen this "Spark and Burn Test" video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaZeC49fHxw

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Digby
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ARRGH!

They are either idiots or criminals trying to take away individual rights. Now people can go to a medical center and pay upwards of $800 per session that insurance won't pay for.

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Phoiph
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Digby, they're both!

I have been concerned about this for a awhile and suspected it was only a matter of time.

Apparently, they couldn't claim it was harming anyone, so they came up with the weak accusations of fire code violations to spread fear and doubt.

I believe it is part of the bigger overall plan to deny us personal choice, autonomy, and access to non-mainstream therapies, and to regulate, control and monopolize. Lots of profits to be made in that growing space.

[ 07-03-2022, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: Phoiph ]

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Kaibyrd
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Grrrrr! It’s all about the money.

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KB

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dbpei
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This is so wrong! I don't know of one case in which anyone was harmed by a soft chamber. That Youtube video was amazing, Phoiph. What can we do to prevent the FDA from banning soft chambers? Mild hyperbaric chambers are already banned in Canada!
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Phoiph
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Unfortunately, the safety, effectiveness, and growing popularity of home chambers makes them an attractive target.

It wasn't long ago that that mild hyperbaric was considered "unproven snake oil" by the same entities that now want to monopolize the industry.

dbpei...I'm looking into how we can help and will report back.

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Kaibyrd
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Thanks Phoiph!

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KB

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Jazzman
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quote:
Originally posted by bodhi:
Does anyone here have experience preventing or working through panic attacks during mHBOT?

Please let me know if you have any other suggestions or experiences to share.

Hi bodhi:

When I first started diving I did suffere a panic attack, here is the post I made on it.

Hi Everyone,

After weeks of reading I have finally completed this entire thread. I wanted to say thank you to all who have posted their stories and also say a hello to the lurkers, as I was until now, who follow this thread. I confess, towards the last few pages, I started to feel a bit of anxiety, as the stories I have read have offered me hope that I may one day get better. As I went from page to page, and saw your updates and histories, each new page offered hope and encouragement, and a bit selfishly, I did not want the pages to end. I see myself reflected in so many stories here. My story is I have come to believe I been sick since I was in my teens.

I went un/misdiagnosed for many years, until, like many, I narrowed my issues down to Lyme (have vague memories of a bad insect bite as a teen camping). Managed to get my blood sent to a US lab (I live in Canada) and it came back positive for Lyme and co-infections. I am in the club of 10s of thousands of dollars spent, over the years trying to get well, or better at least. A few years ago I thought I was on my way out, looking positively skeletal, GI issues (antibiotics were hard on me), and no appetite, super fatigued and mush for a brain.

I decided to look into oxygen therapies as a kind of last hope of stopping my decline. I looked at ozone (MAH) and hyperbaric. At the time I decided to go with ozone and I feel like it saved my life. Even from the first treatment I could feel the fog and fatigue lift from my body and at the end of 6 months I was having people tell me how great I looked. I did feel better, not great, still lots of joint/muscle pain, but my weight is back on, GI issues cleared and I could read and think again at a level that was tolerable. That was 4 years ago and although I am maintaining, I am not advancing, after the initial progress, in any meaningful way I can discern. I came across Phoenix Rising and that lead me to here. After reading the first page I knew I was going to go diving. I purchased a chamber, Airsoak model “Nova” and have been diving for 43 days. Made the decision to purchase the Nova, as living in Canada, 1.5 ATA is permissible and the Nova is built for higher pressures and ships with both 1.3 and 1.5 ATA valves. One on the earlier links posted in this thread showed a graph where it showed 1.5 ATA at the top of the bell curve for oxygen saturation, and if I figured it couldn’t hurt to have that option.

Thanks to you guys, and especially Phoiph, I had clear path to follow on just how to correctly do this. I was even more conservative than the recommendations, I started my first dive at 1.15 ATA (the Nova has both internal, and external, pressure gauges, and I used the internal relief valve to control things manually) for 15 minutes. I did this for 3 days, and then went to 1.3 ATA for 4 days at 15 minutes. Then added 5 minutes every 3 days until I hit 30 minutes, this was done with oxygen flowing into the chamber, but not directly breathing it

At thirty minutes, I decided that I would start to slowly add oxygen to my dive sessions; I would start with 5 minutes and increase every 3-4 dives. However, after my first oxygen session I had an attack of vertigo. Now this was not my first time experiencing vertigo, but not for many years. It unsettled me a bit, so I went back to diving without oxygen with the idea of working my way up until 1 hour, then adding back the oxygen when I reached there.

Things went smoothly for me, uneventfully working my way up until an hour and then when I added back the oxygen once again, an event, I suffered a panic attack later that night, first in over 2 decades. As an aside, I would add that my dreams had become more vivid, not nightmares in any way, just colourful and “bright”. As a note, I have zero issues with claustrophobia or small spaces.

The panic attack did not unsettle me too badly, not as much as the vertigo did, as I had them for many years, about 20 years ago, so I knew what I was experiencing (after being diagnosed I learned panic attacks/vertigo were not uncommon in Lyme patients). So once again I returned to diving without oxygen, trying to settle in once more. After a few days, I decided to try to add back in the oxygen, but this time I changed things up. Instead of starting it at the beginning of the dive, at full pressure, I am now doing it at the end. I have been adding 1 minute each day and today did 5 minutes with no issues, feeling good so far. I figured if I started at the end, the oxygen I am breathing will not be under pressure the same way starting it at the begging would have it, giving my body more time to becoming more acclimatized to getting saturated with oxygen.

I will be adding a minute a day over the coming weeks until my oxygen matches my diving time. My thoughts are that this is a very powerful therapy, to be treated with a lot of respect. I started out with what I thought was a conservative program, but those critters in me let me know they did not like me poking at them with oxygen under pressure. I say under pressure because I have breathed pure oxygen before for long periods of time, over the years, and never had any aberrant reactions at any time before,

I figured I will give this at least a year before I make any real pronouncements on its effectiveness for me, I have been ill with this disease a long time and I am prepared to give mHBOT the time it needs to hopefully help me become well/better again. Plus, I kind of enjoy the quite time alone inside the chamber.

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Phoiph
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Jazzman~

Thank you for posting this again. I have been sharing your recommendation (about gradually starting 02 at the end of the dive rather than the beginning) ever since reading your experience.

How are you doing now?

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Phoiph
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To follow up on my previous post on this article:

https://www.heraldsun.com/news/local/article263053458.html

I spoke to the owner of one of the leading manufacturers of home chambers, who fortunately is well aware of the situation and is already working on it with other manufacturers.

Apparently, certain proponents of hard-shelled chambers/clinics sponsored a meeting and invited a number of fire marshals. Their objective was to propose that soft chambers need to meet the same fire regulations as hard chambers and to portray them as "unsafe".

As a result, 17+ soft chamber clinics were shut down.

The motive? According to the source I spoke to, to monopolize the industry for financial gain. It has nothing to do with safety.

The good news is that the source is confident that they can fight this; it is just a matter of the leading soft-chamber manufacturers educating the fire marshals and other entities involved on the function and safety of soft chambers.

They appreciate that we want to help, but don't feel we need to do anything at this time. The first step is to educate the fire marshals, which is the responsibility of the soft chamber manufacturers.

That said, they will let us know if we can be of help any help in the future.

I will keep you posted with any information I receive on the issues.

Thank you for your concern and willingness to help...this is crucial ground to defend and could impact all of us!

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Jazzman
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Hi Phoiph, yes, the key for me was going in reverse on supplementing on the oxygen. It solved my issues.

I have made progress over the last few years and I am feeling better than I was before I started diving.

My suspicion is that I have been infected with Lyme for over 40 years and it will take a number of more years to inch my way back to where I can truly say I feel in good health every day. One day at a time.

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Kaibyrd
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That’s good to know Phoiph, thanks!

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KB

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kgg
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Thanks for checking that issue out, Phoiph.
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Digby
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Thank you Phoiph. Please keep us posted.
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Phoiph
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Of course, you're welcome!

Jazzman, progress is what counts, and I know you will get there.

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bodhi
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Thank you for sharing this Jazzman.

You and @Phoiph have inspired me to experiment with the parameters of my mHBOT treatments so that I don't have panic attacks during the sessions. I'm not having them out side the chamber. I'm avoiding any caffeine before the chamber treatments, depressurizing over at least 10 minutes, and also watching out to keep my breathing patterns regular as to avoid too much oxygen. If I start to notice the early signs of a panic attack, I take the mask off for a minute and focus on long slow exhales

quote:
Originally posted by Jazzman:
quote:
Originally posted by bodhi:
Does anyone here have experience preventing or working through panic attacks during mHBOT?

Please let me know if you have any other suggestions or experiences to share.

Hi bodhi:

When I first started diving I did suffere a panic attack, here is the post I made on it.

Hi Everyone,

After weeks of reading I have finally completed this entire thread. I wanted to say thank you to all who have posted their stories and also say a hello to the lurkers, as I was until now, who follow this thread. I confess, towards the last few pages, I started to feel a bit of anxiety, as the stories I have read have offered me hope that I may one day get better. As I went from page to page, and saw your updates and histories, each new page offered hope and encouragement, and a bit selfishly, I did not want the pages to end. I see myself reflected in so many stories here. My story is I have come to believe I been sick since I was in my teens.

I went un/misdiagnosed for many years, until, like many, I narrowed my issues down to Lyme (have vague memories of a bad insect bite as a teen camping). Managed to get my blood sent to a US lab (I live in Canada) and it came back positive for Lyme and co-infections. I am in the club of 10s of thousands of dollars spent, over the years trying to get well, or better at least. A few years ago I thought I was on my way out, looking positively skeletal, GI issues (antibiotics were hard on me), and no appetite, super fatigued and mush for a brain.

I decided to look into oxygen therapies as a kind of last hope of stopping my decline. I looked at ozone (MAH) and hyperbaric. At the time I decided to go with ozone and I feel like it saved my life. Even from the first treatment I could feel the fog and fatigue lift from my body and at the end of 6 months I was having people tell me how great I looked. I did feel better, not great, still lots of joint/muscle pain, but my weight is back on, GI issues cleared and I could read and think again at a level that was tolerable. That was 4 years ago and although I am maintaining, I am not advancing, after the initial progress, in any meaningful way I can discern. I came across Phoenix Rising and that lead me to here. After reading the first page I knew I was going to go diving. I purchased a chamber, Airsoak model “Nova” and have been diving for 43 days. Made the decision to purchase the Nova, as living in Canada, 1.5 ATA is permissible and the Nova is built for higher pressures and ships with both 1.3 and 1.5 ATA valves. One on the earlier links posted in this thread showed a graph where it showed 1.5 ATA at the top of the bell curve for oxygen saturation, and if I figured it couldn’t hurt to have that option.

Thanks to you guys, and especially Phoiph, I had clear path to follow on just how to correctly do this. I was even more conservative than the recommendations, I started my first dive at 1.15 ATA (the Nova has both internal, and external, pressure gauges, and I used the internal relief valve to control things manually) for 15 minutes. I did this for 3 days, and then went to 1.3 ATA for 4 days at 15 minutes. Then added 5 minutes every 3 days until I hit 30 minutes, this was done with oxygen flowing into the chamber, but not directly breathing it

At thirty minutes, I decided that I would start to slowly add oxygen to my dive sessions; I would start with 5 minutes and increase every 3-4 dives. However, after my first oxygen session I had an attack of vertigo. Now this was not my first time experiencing vertigo, but not for many years. It unsettled me a bit, so I went back to diving without oxygen with the idea of working my way up until 1 hour, then adding back the oxygen when I reached there.

Things went smoothly for me, uneventfully working my way up until an hour and then when I added back the oxygen once again, an event, I suffered a panic attack later that night, first in over 2 decades. As an aside, I would add that my dreams had become more vivid, not nightmares in any way, just colourful and “bright”. As a note, I have zero issues with claustrophobia or small spaces.

The panic attack did not unsettle me too badly, not as much as the vertigo did, as I had them for many years, about 20 years ago, so I knew what I was experiencing (after being diagnosed I learned panic attacks/vertigo were not uncommon in Lyme patients). So once again I returned to diving without oxygen, trying to settle in once more. After a few days, I decided to try to add back in the oxygen, but this time I changed things up. Instead of starting it at the beginning of the dive, at full pressure, I am now doing it at the end. I have been adding 1 minute each day and today did 5 minutes with no issues, feeling good so far. I figured if I started at the end, the oxygen I am breathing will not be under pressure the same way starting it at the begging would have it, giving my body more time to becoming more acclimatized to getting saturated with oxygen.

I will be adding a minute a day over the coming weeks until my oxygen matches my diving time. My thoughts are that this is a very powerful therapy, to be treated with a lot of respect. I started out with what I thought was a conservative program, but those critters in me let me know they did not like me poking at them with oxygen under pressure. I say under pressure because I have breathed pure oxygen before for long periods of time, over the years, and never had any aberrant reactions at any time before,

I figured I will give this at least a year before I make any real pronouncements on its effectiveness for me, I have been ill with this disease a long time and I am prepared to give mHBOT the time it needs to hopefully help me become well/better again. Plus, I kind of enjoy the quite time alone inside the chamber.


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Phoiph
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Jazzman,

Are you doing 1.3 ATA, or 1.5 ATA?

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