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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » help; liver went bad; off am off meds

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Author Topic: help; liver went bad; off am off meds
Talktel
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Hi all,

I was n IV Zithromax and IM BIcillin and doc just pulled me off everything because I had a terrible reaction, and after taking blood tests my liver went bad. I don't know how hight but he said my liver is very stressed. And this is with glut shots and NAC.

What happens now? I'm off babs treatment too. I was on mepron.

I started taking Samento and Teasel rool.

I've been having cardiac symptoms, and I don't know if my doc has a game plan . I think he's scared to put me back eventually. He said my inflammatory markers are very low so I should celebrate! I've been on abx long enough.

I'm out of options as other docs don't want to take me neither. I don't have a supportive network at home, so I'm on my own.

What happens now? I've been treated for ten years and still sx. Now weak, dizzy and with cardiac issues!

What do I do? Lay down and die?

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RI

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Sammi
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Talktel, I am sorry you are feeling so bad.

Are your liver enzymes high? This may be why your doctor stopped your meds. This can happen with Lyme. I have had it happen a couple of times, and I had to stop meds until the numbers improved.

I would ask the doctor if he/she plans on putting you back on meds when the numbers normalize.

Hang in there.

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Talktel
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obviously all my liver markers went high.

I don't have the test results. That is why my doctor stopped my meds, but the way he spoke I don't know if he's planning on putting me back on.

How long can it be until liver goes back? and does it?

I have stopped all other meds even the LDN. I'm having such shortness of breath and I don't know what that's from. Can that be the liver?

THe doc didn't tell me what to do about the other meds- such as can I take an inhalor like zolpinex to see if it helps the breathing?

--------------------
RI

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Sammi
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My numbers did go back to normal. It was a while ago, but I think it took a few weeks.

Your shortness of breath may be from Babs since you stopped the Mepron. But do not assume that. You should let your doctor know and also ask about whether or not you should take your other medications.

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faithful777
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You need to do a liver cleanse to get all the drugs out of it.

--------------------
Faithful

Just sharing my experience, I am not a doctor.

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Talktel
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I've been taking glutathian shots and taking NAC.

What else can I do?

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RI

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GretaM
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Hi talktel,

I am new to this, so I can't say for certain, but if you are unable to continue abx because of liver issues in the future, ie: the docs won't put you on abx again, perhaps Rife or Photon therapy will be your solution.

Lots of folks who were unable to tolerate further abx, found successful treatment with Rife and Photon therapy.

Best of luck, I hope the cardiac issues resolve soon.

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treeinatree
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Have you had liver enzyme genetic testing? If some enzymes are low, you may not be able to process drugs that inhibit or require those particular enzymes.
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Talktel
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No. I don't have the money for anything- I don't even know how to do that.

Would anything be covered by insurance?

Where do I get that done?

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RI

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GretaM
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Talktel- Do you have a lyme support group in your area? I've read of some people sharing a Rife machine, to cut down on costs.

Also, not sure who does photon in your area, but you could tack onto the photon thread in Medical Questions and ask for someone to PM you.

[Smile]

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Talktel
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what is photon?

I found someone in my area who does rife, but he sounds wierd. ANd I don't know how good he is. He won't let me speak to other patients.

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RI

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steve1906
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You need to take a break from meds; you've been sick a long time and have taken meds for years.

I'm sorry this happened to you, but as I'm sure you are aware it happens to a lot of us.

I just posted this link the other day, since you can't take any meds at this point you might find this useful.

ALTERNATIVE THERAPIES:

http://www.lymeinfo.net/alt.html

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Everything I say is just my opinion!

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Keebler
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Oh, my. I know this is a rough and tumble ride but, oh, my . . . never without some other option. Always another way to approach:

Steve's link above is excellent. In additon:


http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=117755;p=0

Topic: RIFE Machine - Reference LINKS

LL Naturopathic links here, too.


To help the liver & cardiac symptoms:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=123746;p=0

Topic: MAGNESIUM LINKS sets


Be sure to avoid acetaminophen & ibupropen. Check other Rx you may be taking. Importance explained here:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=030792;p=0

LIVER & KIDNEY SUPPORT & and several HERXHEIMER support links, too.
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Keebler
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You say "found someone in my area who does rife, but he sounds wierd. ANd I don't know how good he is. He won't let me speak to other patients." (end quote)

Not giving you patients' names may be because he has none who wants to talk. He can't just give out patient's names and numbers. You migh ask if he would ask if anyone is in the place where they might share their experience with you.

Local support groups should have some value, too.

Is this person a LL ND or someone with similar education? That's really important. You can read more about rife in the link set above.

It has helped many - many. Best if guided with a LL ND, of course, if you can find a good one. LLMDs are not allowed by law to guide actual rife but can discuss other things around that as you go along.
-

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Talktel
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I don't think he is a LLND.

He just claims he can make anyone feel better, and quicker than anyone else.

He's also very expensive.

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RI

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Keebler
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It's illegal to be taking money for rife treatments if he is not a medical professional. It's illegal to be taking money for treatments if he has no medical training or certification, period. And so very dangerous.

When approaching any alternative methods, you need someone with medical education such as an ND (or similar) would have, more specifically for you, an ILADS educated LL ND.

Of course, many "do" rife on their own and get what general support they can from what ever kind of licensed LL doctor they have.

Not all LL NDs are trained in or use rife but they may still be able to help in some ways if not, just as a LLMD can still help with certain questions that may come up. (MDs just can't advise directly about rife.)

You can purchase a rife on your own. You don't have to have a doctor with one in their office. But it is important to still have an ILADS educated LL doctor to work through other things around this.

But, back to that person who claims they can do wonders. Find out if there is any credence to that. Ask him to ask former patients if they would talk to you. Talk to all area support groups.

There may be something here of importance IF success is being achieved. And, if the opposite, well, that would need to be set right. But without all the detail (including his licensing and education), it's hard to know.

Much more cost effective to get your own rife and then consult with LL doctor around that since Rife won't take care of all matters.
-

[ 08-11-2013, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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treeinatree
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Some insurance will cover MTHFR testing. Some will cover CYP-450 enzyme testing. Is your regular doctor's office helpful with calling insurance to check coverage for labs?

23andme.com is $99 for a lot of genetic information. There is some liver enzyme info, but I don't know how detailed - I haven't gotten results yet.

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Talktel
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My regular doc happens to be Lyme friendly. But he will not go the extra mile for me.

I only use him becaue he's lyme friendly-and lot good that does if I have to plead for an appointment.

THe other pcp's in my a rea are all an ti-lyme.

BTW, I believe my LLMD tested fr MDHFR and I have that mutation.

this person I spoke to about the rifew machine calls himself FR.

I just don't know if its accurate or not.

DO you think my LLMD will drop me?

I was dropped already the the top LLMD, and now I'm afraid he won't be there for me neither.

none wants to take on my case.

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RI

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lax mom
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Hi Talktel,

I seriously doubt your LLMD would drop you due to elevated liver enzymes. It's far too common when you're on long term antibiotics.

You just started seeing this LLMD at the end of last year. He wouldn't give up so soon.

I think your previous LLMD was just covering his tail when you thought you had C.diff.

Take a breath. You are not alone.

I've only been treating a year and a half, but I'm starting to think the key is strengthening the immune system so it can fight off these bugs on its own.

What are you taking for MTHFR?

BTW, that's awesome that your inflammation is down!!!!!

[group hug] [group hug] [group hug]

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♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥
(aperture)
http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=115161;p=0

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Teapot
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A friend found that his high liver enzymes were lowered significantly when he cut out eating red meat. He sticks to poultry and fish, with only an occasional treat of a juicy burger!
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Keebler
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You say: "this person I spoke to about the rife machine calls himself FR" (end quote)

I don't know who you mean. Those in your area support groups may. That you always refer to him as "a guy" "this person" seems to say no medical education or licensing (?)

Anyone can talk to us about rife. I have learned a great deal about rife - and bought one from - someone who is not a doctor. There are many ways we can acquire knowledge. And I greatly admire many in this area who have dived deep into rife study -- and those who share that knowledge with us.

However, to take money for actually treating you with rife - or to take money for even letting you use a rife machine -- this is illegal UNLESS they are treating you in a doctor - patient relationship.

In such a case, the knowledge base of a LL ND (or similar doctor) goes far beyond rife to cover all the bases. Rife is just one modality that some LL NDs may guide but they are far more equipted than in just that. And we need their full scope.

Still, again, talk to others to see if maybe "this guy" does have something going for how he is approaching rife use. Get specifics.
-

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Talktel
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Sorry keebler.

That was a typo. I meant to say he call himself Dr...... I don't know if he actually is one.

Lax mom, thank you so much for your encouraging words.

And teapot, I don't ordinarily eat red meat. I also stick to chicken, fish and eggs.

--------------------
RI

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Keebler
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Benefit of the doubt, I would bet that if he calls himself a doctor, he is one. Just find out what kind and where he attended college so you have a better idea of his training. Even with herbal medicine, there are far different herbs used from different styles (Chinese, Ayurvedic, Amazon, etc.).

They must still be ILADS "educated" IMO, though, so they have full knowledge of the science of lyme, how it works, what goes with it, and honor all that. Unless that piece is there, they can't be a good doctor to anyone with lyme, no matter what techniques are used.

It is a relief, then, just get a few more specifics. If they are good they may well be worth the cost. Education, equipment, insurance, overhead - it all figures in. You could also get your own rife and then consult less frequently than if you were doing sessions there.

Aside from rife, a good LL ND would know many ways to support your liver / kidneys.
-

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Talktel
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Yo're probably right keepbler. But its all hugely expensive. I just dfon't have the money. I would go to a LLnd if I had that money.


This Dr..... I don'tknow if he knows too much about Lyme.

Although a naturapath did tell me about him.

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RI

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steve1906
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Talktel, Would you mind sending me a PM with this Dortors name, and location?

Thanks....

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Everything I say is just my opinion!

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steve1906
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Thanks for the PM - Talktel, your mail-box is full - let me know when I can PM you more info/reviews?

Dr. C MD and MSC - male, has 35 years of experience and practices in Internal Medicine and is board certified in Internal Medicine.

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Everything I say is just my opinion!

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poppy
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CAn someone suggest what is done about people with these mutations.

Also, milk thistle is frequently said to help with liver support. Don't know how this works in those mutations though.

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Talktel
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Yikes steve,

IHow do I empty my mail box?

The Dr C you were referring to. Is that the personI heard about?

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RI

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Talktel
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Hi Steve,

I just deleted some messages, so there should be room to pm me. That's greatly appreciated!

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RI

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steve1906
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Go to my profile:
1- Click on delete incoming and sent messages you don't want.

2- then delete checked messages

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Everything I say is just my opinion!

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Talktel
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I got it Steve.

Thanks loads.

But this guy is expensive. I don't know how I'd afford him.

I'll contact my Lyme disease association rep

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RI

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Robin123
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I'm a poor detoxer anyway, so I'm detoxing every five days in a portable FIR sauna tent, and that's what I recommend. Takes me about a half hour to sweat, then I stay in 5-10 minutes more, then shower off alternating warm and cool.

I also take a scoop of Takesumi activated charcoal with meals with fat in them - that also helps detoxing.

Don't give up - you need to be having this conversation here and with others so you can arrange for the detoxing that will work for you.

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Carol in PA
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You could look into doing castor oil packs over the liver area.

Google for castor oil packs, liver benefits.
One example:
http://www.shininghealth.com/blog/2012/04/detox-your-body-the-amazing-healing-benefits-of-castor-oil


Although I have not used a far infrared sauna as Robin suggests, I have some experience using far infrared light with the SOTA LightWorks.
The light transmits energy that the body's cells absorb, which the mitochondria in the cells use for cell function.

This should help the liver cells to function better.
The liver does not store drugs or poisons.

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Talktel
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I cannot use binders such as charcoal,because my electrolytes are low. I was using questran and it bound the electrolytes out of my body just like the bad stuff.

Infrared sauna? How much do they cost? One gets it online?

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RI

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steve1906
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Hi Talktel, I found this for you, lots of info and web-sites. (Current data and cost)

Infrared sauna:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/124706?#000003

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Everything I say is just my opinion!

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Talktel
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reading up on saunas and I see it can pul out electrolytes.

I dont think that's for me then. I'm trying to build up my electrolytes again. I was passing out.

between cardiac and electrolyte issues, not a good game plan, I would think.

--------------------
RI

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Keebler
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-
We all have to sweat - and that "pulls out" electrolytes, too.

To clarify some misconceptions about infrared sauna. Infrared is very, very different from a regular sauna in the temperature settings. And that makes all the difference.

Infrared Sauna can be very helpful to increase circualation gently. The heat is low enough as to be safe (when heat is kept low, of course).

This helps is no many ways.

The key is to take in nutients. We must take in nutrients each day, all during the day. This includes electrolytes - best from foods (and just the right amount of sea salt), etc.

Even if you don't use an infrared sauna, gettting the body to sweat is very important. And we just keep feeding it the nutrients it needs so that we have this wonderful cycle of our feeding it, the body using those nutrients and build cells and also "take out the trash" with sweat and other elimniation methods.

Unless we can sweat some, we are doomed. Our kidneys are not happy. The key is NOT not to sweat but how to safely sweat, in the right amount, right balance for each person.
-

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Talktel
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I hear ye,

I just feel so lousy that I can't respond.

And ineed tosee the dentist soon.

--------------------
RI

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Robin123
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Sweating in the FIR sauna every five days is the only way I'm slowly recovering from too much toxins, so I still think it's a good idea to look into it. What about checking in with area Lyme groups to see if someone has one that you could try out?
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Keebler
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-
You say you need to see the dentist soon. Just in case you are to get any kind of numbing shot, it's important to know: Ask for one without EPI.


Epinephrine is in many anesthetics (not sure about anesthesia, though). Some discussion on why epinephrine (EPI) can be a rough ride for someone with lyme (especially if they have cardiac &/or adrenal issues):

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/120035

EPI & medical / dental procedures
-

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Talktel
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I just called my Lyme disease rep to ask her. I do know I am low in salt, and other minerals. I just got the blood tests today to confirm it.

Gosh, too late to ask about the epinephrine. Job
s done.

I think I'm herxing from the Samento and teasel root. does that make sense?

I just feel so lousy.

I just can't deal with all this anymore. I'm done for.

--------------------
RI

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lax mom
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Is there a store or clinic nearby that does things like colonics? Maybe they have a Far Infrared Sauna that you can try. In my town, it's $1/minute.

The FIR sauna is POWERFUL. I have to take extra hydration and electrolytes due to POTS. I am still weaning up on the sauna and only able to use it 1x/week at 13 minutes. The sweat lost is easily replaced with water and and electrolyte drink.

--------------------
♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥
(aperture)
http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=115161;p=0

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Talktel
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Lax mom,

But Fir Sauna is so powerful, my blood works showed low in electolytes. And I was passing out.

So I'm scared of anything like that.

--------------------
RI

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Talktel
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I read my blood works today. My bilirubin counts are sky high. double the amount of normal.


My electrolytes are low.

Is biirubin onsidered liver enzymes?

--------------------
RI

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mlg
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Hi,

My doc gave me this.
http://www.bioresourceinc.com/pekana/apohepat.php

juicing (something like celery, carrot, green apples, beat, wheatgrass)
(eating beat is suppose to clean out the liver and spleen but you can't overdue it)

colonics

ask your LLMD or natural/homeopathic doctor about mimosa pudica
http://www.ijpsdr.com/pdf/vol5-issue2/1.pdf

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