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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » NY Times article- Numerous point/counterpoint arguments

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Author Topic: NY Times article- Numerous point/counterpoint arguments
jklynd
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It's nice to see the coverage-let's see what kind of responses this generates...

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2013/08/11/deconstructing-lyme-disease/

Joe

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Abxnomore
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Thanks for posting this. It's a great opportunity to make our voices heard. Just reading some of the comments posted show such ignorance and lack of awareness about Lyme disease after all this time.
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Keebler
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Wow! My computer nearly blew up with some wise voices about lyme appearing on the same page as some of the IDSA misinformation names.

This may be the only way the NYT felt they could present anything true about lyme, to put it on the same page as all bad out there, too. The separation of essays is very helpful, in that way, too.

At least they don't print some truths (ILADS' voice) only to then end with the IDSA garbage (as they usually would do if even one true sentence would make it past their medical editors).

This is a huge - huge - step for the NYT which, for many years, has voraciously discounted the truth about lyme - and ignored coinfections.

To have a debate with various voices, never thought I'd see that with them.

Presenting various views so that the reader can explore further -- who knew they might go back to what journalism is all about?

Of course, I wish they would / could do some critical thinking and expose the errors of the IDSA. That would also be good journalism but even the NYT might not be up to that task.

In absence of the real investigative reporting that has been sorely lacking about lyme in the NYT for years -- then a good move, this is, with the debate of sorts, penned by voices from both "sides" of the issue.

I've not yet had time to read any of the essays but just seeing the guest writers' names all together was quite something.

Reader comments for ANY lyme article at the NTY brings the IDSA bullies out of the woodwork. I expect this to be no different, sadly.
-

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Abxnomore
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The IDSA is out in force posting their false ideas. Give them some push back.

I hope every one will post their experiences and opinions on The New York Times site.

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2013/08/11/deconstructing-lyme-disease/

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Abxnomore
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Sending this up. Please post your experiences and give the IDSA some push back. They have posted their views in full force.
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poppy
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The trouble is that they require facebook membership, which not everyone has.
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RC1
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They just asked for my email to register. I don't think you have to be on Facebook. I gave them my 2 cents. It has to be approved to be published though.
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Abxnomore
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No, Poppy they do not require face book membership. I don't have a face book account either but I was able to post.
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Abxnomore
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Thanks RC1 for posting. It's a good opportunity to make our voices heard. Let's over load them with responses.
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poppy
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They really haven't given equal time to both sides. We get the CDC and the other stooges on the party line, and only Dr. H and Amy on the other. If their intention was balance, they didn't succeed. But I doubt that was their intention.
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Abxnomore
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It's still better than no exposure at all and the opportunity to post our side of the story is a good one we should not let pass.
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lax mom
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I posted my husband's success story.

It's unnerving to see people who are so naive and take what Shapiro and Wormser say as gospel, while we all know that many lives have been lost due to their lies.

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Tincup
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Yep! Keebler is right. She said.. "Reader comments for ANY lyme article at the NTY brings the IDSA bullies out of the woodwork. I expect this to be no different, sadly."

It's actually funny. They are drooling over the articles and can't wait to kick us with their replies. Love it that Phil Baker has nothing better to do than try to argue with patients. What a sad & miserable person he must be.

Just please don't waste your time arguing with the IDiots. They will NEVER admit they were wrong and only work to beat us in the ground at every opportunity they can, with every response.

Certainly post your comments, but don't try to counter what they are saying with facts. They aren't worth the effort. I only urge you not to waste your time to save you some frustration.

[Big Grin]

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Tincup
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Well dang me. I just did exactly what I told you all not to do! Bad Tincup!

It is just too much fun when you don't take them seriously! They are so easy to dispute, like shooting fish in a barrel, basically because they are so, so wrong!

So go ahead and do as I do if you want, not as I say. I'm still laughing!

[lol]

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Abxnomore
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Right, what a joke to see Baker posting his false, narrow arguments.

I had thought there would be a much bigger response from the Lyme community. If you haven't posted, it's a good opportunity to post your experiences to drown out the voice of the IDSA:

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2013/08/11/deconstructing-lyme-disease/

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RC1
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I think that people are posting, the posts have to be approved. My post still isn't up, and I did it yesterday.

I hope they aren't picking and choosing what they want to get posted. My post was very straight forward and unemotional. There is no reason that mine shouldn't get accepted...but it's not up yet. Makes you wonder.

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Abxnomore
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No they don't seem to be choosing or censoring. I posted some very unflattering things about the IDSA and they were approved.

I guess there's a back log.

Thanks for posting!! [Smile]

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poppy
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Yes, there are posts that have not appeared yet. If they don't, then we will know there is censoring. And although I have an account, the log-in is not working today.
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Abxnomore
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I posted at least five posts yesterday and they were all put through but I did notice that there are no new posts since yesterday. I do hope they post the new ones but I don't know if they have a cut of period.
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Anthropologista
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I posted a comment on Brian Palmer's snide little piece--on his flawed intellectual process rather than the "facts" he derives from it. That hasn't appeared yet either.
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Abxnomore
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That truly was a snide uninformed piece. I posted and let him know so, too.
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Abxnomore
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I just checked and a lot more posts were added since yesterday. Perhaps, your comments have posted by now?
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poppy
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More posts added, but still missing some.
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lax mom
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My posts from last night were just added this afternoon. They must be backlogged.

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Abxnomore
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That's what we want, to over load them with responses. Backlogged is okay, as long as they continue to post them.

It's our chance to give the IDSA fools hell!! They are definitely trolling the comments, including Phil Baker.

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lax mom
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I wish there wasn't a limit on the number of characters you could write. [cussing]

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Abxnomore
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True but there doesn't see to be a limit on how many times we can post.

You can also post multiple comments back to back. Others have done it. It's a pain but it you put in on a word document and than you can easily copy and paste it onto the site.

I say we bombard them with comments! [Big Grin]

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poppy
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I just noticed that the sneering reporter, Palmer, also writes for Slate. They recently ran an awful piece on lyme too. Wondering now if he wrote that one. Will see if I can find it.

But maybe you don't want to keep reading these poison pen articles. As someone told me a while back, "it takes years off my life."

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poppy
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Well, guess what, he DID write that Slate article too. Making a career of stomping sick people apparently or a personal friend of Dr. Worm. What an a$$hole.

Here is the Slate slop, with more than 400 comments, which evidently did not change his mind, if he has one.

http://tiny.cc/xe6s1w

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lax mom
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I hope he never gets bit by a tick.

What the heck is PTLDS????

Thanks for finding the article poppy.

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droid1226
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I've emailed Brian Palmer on every account I can find. It's amazing how someone who's not a Dr., only a science journalist is given a voice and people read it.

I don't think The Times helped any of us with this section. Stop giving both sides a platform. There is no side except ILADS. There's only an antiquated, non-evidence based, wrong opinion by the IDSA.

PLEASE POST COMMENTS ON THESE ARTICLES. They will be read. Nothing we write on here will be read, all we're doing is reinforcing the same points we all agree upon.

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poppy
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Well, that is what journalism seems to have sunk to, just give "both sides" and sit on the sidelines. A lot easier than trying to research this and give the public educated coverage.
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ctone
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So, it looks like they removed the comments already, or I'm missing something. Can
anyone else still comment on the NYT article?

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poppy
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NO, still there. The way to get to comments and make a comment is via the link in the first post in this thread. Then scroll down until you see "read the discussion" on the left side, click on it, then scroll down again until you see the comments. Tab on right for making your own comment. So far there are 95 comments.
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jklynd
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Just to clarify:
This NY Times "Room for Debate" has 7 different sub-sections, with "Focus on the Coinfections" just being one of them.

There are varying numbers of comments in each- If you want to reply to Palmer's article, it has it's own response area with comments, for example....

Joe

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Abxnomore
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Cool, Alan B MacDonald MD posted and put the deniers in their place!
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Keebler
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-
Each of the essays has its own separate comments posted. It's not the same set following each essay. Just good to know that.
-

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Andie333
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I completely agree with droid. In fact, several essayists made me so mad I posted comments. I was especially angered by the science writer [sic]
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Abxnomore
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Brining this one up, too, in response to Anthropologista's post regarding the Boston Globe:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=125621;p=0

There are two pieces about Lyme Disease in the news just a week apart. We should all take time and try to comment.

The New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2013/08/11/deconstructing-lyme-disease/

The Boston Globe:

http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/health/specials/lyme_disease/

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poppy
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You can't read the Globe article without subscribing.

The comments I read are mostly from ignorant people. Who are these people that show up in droves on every media outlet with a comment feature?

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Abxnomore
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Most are IDSA trolls.
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Anthropologista
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You can register for the Globe--and post comments in the discussion--without a paying subscription. Lots of uninformed and condescending comments. There are also separate comments underneath the main story. Yes, let's blast the discussion board.
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