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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Can we talk about muscle testing??

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Author Topic: Can we talk about muscle testing??
Jessiep
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Saw a new doc today. She did a lot of muscle testing. Took me off all abx and said I have yeast, Bart and maybe still babs. For now no abx just supps ( selected based on muscle testing) and diflucan.

I want to be better and am trying to be open minded. BUT this is all a little too much. The research is nil on this testing. I'm looking for opinions to figure out whether to go this route.

Help!

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Lymetoo
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I think it can be very helpful.

Not so sure about NOT using abx though!!

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Catgirl
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If it's too much for you to deal with you can always go back to your old protocol.

It's hard for some people to accept, much less consider trying it. I know my first experience witnessing it done to me seemed strange at first, but I really wanted to learn, and I'm glad I did. Muscle testing is not 100%, but it's better than what people who don't muscle test are doing (just my opinion).--They're hoping what they're taking is working for them.

IMO, muscle testing is the single most valuable thing you can do for yourself. Even my pcp told me that it's the most accurate tool we have. I muscle test everything now.

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--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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beaches
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I think it depends on the expertise of the practitioner. We had one naturopath who was excellent and really on-point with everything. Unfortunately she passed away way too soon.

We went to another naturopath and it became apparent that she was not for us and was way off base in many areas.

I wish I could do this testing myself for me and my family.

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Catgirl
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I'm with you Beaches (expertise of practitioner).

You can do this for yourself and your family. I do it all the time. My husband is shocked how well it works. It just takes practice. I first learned the sway method from a really kind soul who posted here on Lymenet (when the search feature starts working again you can find it). Then my pcp showed me one method, and I learned much more off the internet. Then I wanted to be absolutely sure, so I had another practitioner test me (got the same results I did).

There are lots of youtubes that actually show you. Just do whichever is easiest for you. Test something easy like vitamin c. Then you will see a positive response. Then test something you know is bad for you like glue, or anything you know is bad. Then you will see that the strength of your muscle is much weaker, which is obviously not good for you. When you test, ask yourself, "will this benefit my body?" You will get a yes or no response. You can test the dosages of anything this way too (will one pill benefit my body, etc).

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--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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beaches
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Thanks catgirl. I have been meaning to look into this for quite a long time. I regret that I didn't take the class that was offered by our first naturopath.
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Catgirl
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You're welcome! You can do it Beaches. It's easy. :)

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--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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beaches
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Thanks again catgirl. I am overwhelmed and swallowed up in all kinds of paperwork at the moment.

I hope to get to this sooner than later. I don't think it's easy, but I hope you're right that it is.

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Jessiep
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She will use abx too but is taking me off abx for a month to build my immune system and get rid of yeast and treat parasites. Then abx again. This does make sense to me.
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map1131
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Remember jess that was your body wants and needs that day. Things can change down the road. After clearing out yeast, the body might accept the abx.

Muscle testing with a good healthcare person is better than taking a shot in the dark about another med, supp etc.

Remember detoxing and releasing yeast is not going to be an easy road. It will feel rough.

Pam

--------------------
"Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill

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gagamooppop
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I agree with what everyone is saying. It really does depend on the practitioner BIG TIME.

As with my own experience I think I finally found that right practitioner and it has been VERY useful in my healing.

I see a practitioner that uses autonomic response testing and it has been a life saver. Using this technique and deep tissue massage I feel almost like I'm back to regaining my health.

It's a TON of work but such a great tool and I feel takes the guess work out of a lot of things.

There was a time I was on over 10 medications including antibiotics and they just never felt they were doing anything, I felt there was always a better way and for me muscle testing has really helped.

I totally hear ya on the 'hocus pocus' feeling of it but when you read about it, it makes way more sense to me then just throwing random antibiotics at me hoping I react to them. That has just been my experience.

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Lymetoo
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You can learn by watching You Tube videos.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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dogmom2
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I went to a small class(4 people) with a skilled muscle tester. It was very interesting and 2 of our group did well with it, getting clear yes/no responses. Another person tested no for everything, I tested yes, it is good for me, to everything. Even batteries!(my eyes were closed I didn't know what was on me)

She said the sicker you are the less accurate it is in her experience. That said, I do believe it can be very helpful and accurate for some people.

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Catgirl
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Here are three easy ones. I'm not endorsing anything the 2nd one sells, but his method of testing is still a good one. Also the sway method is a good one too, although this one is a little bit different than the one I learned here. You can also try biotensors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGBGXoafTL0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D1BiMNw5Cw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFijJb55swk&list=PLCDC4183994142DD6

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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MichaelTampa
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quote:
Originally posted by dogmom2:
I went to a small class(4 people) with a skilled muscle tester. It was very interesting and 2 of our group did well with it, getting clear yes/no responses. Another person tested no for everything, I tested yes, it is good for me, to everything. Even batteries!(my eyes were closed I didn't know what was on me)

She said the sicker you are the less accurate it is in her experience. That said, I do believe it can be very helpful and accurate for some people.

It took me a few years to learn to test this for myself. I had a bit of pressure from some healthcare practitioners and friends who were encouraging me, but learned slowly and didn't push when I had poor success and didn't pursue for a time. Later I would find out how sick I was. Yes, that is my experience as well, that when very sick, it is more difficult. Here, the practitioner can matter and more skilled techniques will overcome this; doing on oneself has limitations.

When I went through a period of moving lots of heavy metals, I had numerous instances where everything reversed and went through times of giving no answer. Sometimes, no clear answer was given. Other times, all answers were reversed, meaning, what would normally mean no appeared as yes, and vice versa. These times often lasted days, but in some instances lasted several weeks and other instances just several minutes.

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dogmom2
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just an article for self-testing

www.uskinesiology.com/articles/articlemuscletesting.htm

[ 09-08-2013, 12:15 AM: Message edited by: dogmom2 ]

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Jamers
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I just tried the one where you fall forward or backward and I responded to yeast meds! Interesting! Did not respond to Tindamax, A-Bart, A-bab or some supplements. Obviously, Im no professional but I did sway forward for yeast.

--------------------
Diagnosed Pos. Lyme Nov. 17, 2010, Igx.
Pos. Babesia Duncani March 2011, Igx.
Clinical diagnosis for Bartonella

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Catgirl
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Right on Jamers! That just means at that specific point in the day, that was what you needed (something to kill the yeast).

I have to thank you Michael for originally telling me how to do the pendulum test. That actually was the start of my journey to learn muscle testing (forgot).

I also agree with you on the metals and going in reverse (I forgot about this). This occasionally happens to me the day after detoxing heavy metals, and I cannot get a clear reading (sometimes it goes in reverse). Drinking water before hand helps clear it.

For people new to energy testing, it's always good to check something you know is good for you as a comparison to the response you are getting (I do this daily). And with a little practice, you will start to build confidence with your readings. It took me a few months to do this, but if I had followed my gut, it probably would have been sooner. Yes, doing it yourself can present limitations, but I've learned to overcome them with the methods above. I think if I can do this, anyone can. Happy energy testing!

[ 09-08-2013, 11:52 PM: Message edited by: Catgirl ]

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--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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Lymetoo
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I wish everyone on this board would muscle test for yeast! [Smile]

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Brussels
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Muscle test, when well done, can save you thousands of dollars, make you heal muuuch faster (as you choose what your body needs in that moment), and literally can save lives.

I couldn't believe what the practioner was doing, but I was soooo sick I couldn't do anything else than follow what she gave me as medicine, herbs, etc.

She tested eletromagnetic currents to be used, points to tap /massage, my teeth cavitations, heavy metals in my body, all main tick born pathogens, psychologic blockages, all my organs, even the lymph system, etc etc.

Well, I just believed it worked because I was getting better. It was unbelievable. It took time to really heal, but that testing was doing something!

The main point is that, muscle test is only like a ruler (a tool). You need a whole methodology behind it to use that tool well, so that it will serve the main purpose: healing chronic diseases.

No matter how good the tool is, the methodology has to be good too.

You can have excellent textiles, scissors, threads, needles whatever: you will only create a nice piece of art or craft if you know how to use those tools well, if you have a sense of color, proportion and hability to use these tools. And practice, of course.

Same as with muscle tests! Once you master muscle tests well, you keep wondering: how can I use it further!?

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Catgirl
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Great links Dogmom2! I'm going to get professionally tested periodically. And good points Brussels! I also really like tapping (clears blockages).

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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VV
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10069623
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Catgirl
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Fascinating VV!

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--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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CherylSue
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Do a search on this site to get the pros and cons.

As you can see, a lot of people on this site swear by it.

However, scientifically it does not hold up. It may be a way to connect with the subconscious like hypnotism.

It reminds me of a scientific experiment I did in high school lab. I had a string attached to a ball and pressed the string to my forehead. Keeping still I stared at the ball and imagined it swinging in a circle. Sure enough, it moved!

Then I had to attach the string to a rod setup on a stand. I had no physical contact with the string or ball. I stared and stared and stared imagining the ball moving. But nothing happened.

Subsconsiously, when I had contact, I made the ball move. This is the way ouija boards work, too.

So, some people doing the muscle testing have good intuition, perhaps, as to what is ailing them. Those who don't have a clue, have less success.

This isn't rocket science, but if muscle testing comforts you and you have some success with it, go for it.

For others, trust your doctors clinical observations, experience, and lab tests. Don't feel you are a failure if muscle testing doesn't work for you.

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Catgirl
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CherylSue, maybe you didn't see the pub med study that VV posted above. Scientifically verified through blood tests, muscle testing actually did hold up in the study (90.5%). Had those people never gotten tested, they might not even know they had food allergies. I never knew I had them until my LLMD tested my blood (no symptoms). Since most people don't even know what an LLMD is, they would be lucky if they ever uncovered an asymptomatic food allergy.

Muscle testing is not 100%, but it's better than what everyone else is doing which is guessing based on clinical symptoms. My previous pcps never found anything that my kinesiologist did.

IMO, kinesiology is the most advanced diagnostic tool man has discovered. It's all energy. Unfortunately, western medicine falls way behind here.

Remember Schopenhauer:

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

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--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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CherylSue
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I checked VV's PubMed website. The Israeli pilot study was done on 17 subjects. The foods tested were already suspected substances, and it is no wonder the muscle testing worked. The patients already suspected they were allergic.

The preliminary testing didn't say it was a double blind/placebo controlled study. Therefore, the results were not definitive, but suggested further study, in my opinion.

Again, I am not totally opposed to Lymies using this method to help them uncover pathogens. The mind is often subconsiously aware of things lurking below the surface. However, the energetic procedure is not absolute, and I would put my bets on lab testing and an experienced doctor's clinical experience over energy testing.

I am surprised. however, this form of testing seems widely used by alternative doctors. A way to earn extra $$$?

Respectfully yours.

[ 09-09-2013, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: CherylSue ]

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Catgirl
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Hmm, you made me laugh (cartoon land). I disagree with your connection to fortune tellers--Two different subjects (one has zero to do with the other).

I just saw one of my favorite movies again this weekend (The Matrix). I remember a main character in the movie saying that they never free a mind that is not ready (Morpheous). I guess not everyone is ready.

CherylSue, I hear you. Lab testing however, has proven to be of no help to people with clinical symptoms of lyme and company who got no help from mainstream docs (me). Muscle testing has proven to be much more useful in my case, even more so than my LLMD (more co infections).

I remember 20 years ago everyone thought chiropractors were just out for money. Now the practice is accepted.

Respectfully,

Cat

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--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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VV
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Good eye CherylSue. It looks like the study is not helpful as evidence.
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CherylSue
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Oh my, Jessiep asked for a discussion about muscle testing, and she sure got one.
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Catgirl
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Ugh...I have no words.

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--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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map1131
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hmmm, maybe you've not looked outside the box,yet. You will some day, no doubt....when you realize traditional thinking isn't going to get you out of lyme hell.

Good luck with science. I mean that sincerely.

Pam

--------------------
"Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill

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Catgirl
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Well said Pam! :)

Hmmm, I'm not interested, and frankly it's not my job. Good luck in the box.

P.S. I'm not your darling, or your babe and never will be.

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--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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emla999/Lyme
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11926427


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3372923


"The results suggest that the use of Health Kinesiology as a diagnostic tool is not more useful than random guessing."


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16246943


"The working hypothesis was the assumption that the reliability of Applied Kinesiology (AK) would not exceed random chance."

"This outcome confirmed our working hypothesis."


.

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beths
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I have to chime in... I had a practitioner who I respected muscle test me for bartonella meds. I was told I didn't have bartonella.

I wasted a year of treatment not treating bart-it actually came up positive on Igenex.

I think that for those of us who are in tune with our bodies, your intuition prejudices-determines the "reading". Many psychics work on the same level-they are able to "read" the client thru their subtle body language etc to "predict" their situation.

If you think you are allergic to something, or a supplement is not good for you, it will influence how your muscle reacts. For those of you who have good intuition-muscle testing really just reflects what you are presenting. A good practitioner can also pick up on these "clues".

Also-muscle testing doesn't take into account muscle fatigue. As a physical therapist-we muscle test to evaluate a patients strength. It's very difficult for me to exert the same amount of pressure each time....after 30 years of practice, LOL

There is absolutely no way it can actually work

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VV
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Wow.

Reading this really terrible article on ART:
http://physiqology.com/science-based-evidence-for-muscle-testing-as-a-diagnostic-tool-3/

The article is called "Science-Based Evidence for Muscle Testing as a Diagnostic Tool" in which the main evidence produced is:

"This is a verified scientific study spanning over 20 years of research, thousands of test subjects, and millions of independent tests. If you are interested in reading a study that proves what I am trying to get across to you, I have provided a link at the end of this writing so that you may purchase a copy."

Wow. Red flag.

The methods he describes he gives no actual statistics on and they are all branded with a *registered trademark*. Big red flag!!!

The author in his own comments section:

"You can get a copy of the study from Veritas Publishing. In my opinion, the burden of proof is not on the practitioner at all. There is, in fact, no burden of proof, because as far as I am concerned, the methodology is adequately proven by science. That is because it falls within my belief system."

Whaaaat? What kind of loony nonsense is this?

Even further down in the authors comments:

" I also agree that my article is not truly a science-based article. I never set out to provide one, as, even in my opinion, science has yet to prove that AK actually works."

Dude! Your article is called "Science-Based Evidence for Muscle Testing as a Diagnostic Tool".

I think this guy needs a psychological evaluation.

In the meantime, I think I am going to steer clear of Muscle Testing.

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VV
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And here seems to be a decent explanation as to why some believe in the results:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ideomotor_effect

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CherylSue
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Thanks for the above ideamotor article VV. Perhaps, that is what my high school science teacher was trying to teach us. That experiment really stuck with me through the years.
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TerryK
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There are tons of flawed studies out there that the medical profession uses to justify treatment or lack of treatment (as is the case with lyme). In my view a study is not the be all end all.

I've been using muscle testing for 20+ years and I find it to be a very useful tool. It kept me afloat when the allopathic community told me they had nothing to offer. It is not 100% but very few things are.

Terry

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beaches
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All I can say is that the practitioner we had was SPOT-ON.

Actual lab results proved that the results of her muscle-testing were correct.

Thanks Catgirl for posting that study. I totally agree with you.

And good quote re: Schopenhauer (and this is Gael's signature quote on LN):

Remember:

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

Hmmm, for the record, my family has been helped by ART. And FWIW, do you not realize that we as Lyme patients are in a very sorry state of affairs? Do you think we are just a collective bunch of idiots going from gypsy caravan to gypsy caravan throwing away our hard-earned money to fortune-tellers and the like in order to get well?

Sheesh. You want to know about "mystical practices?" Refer yourself to the IDSA nonsensical dogma regarding tick-borne diseases. Talk about "comforting patients in areas where there are no answers" again, refer yourself to the IDSA.

Please refrain from insulting the members here by telling us to “wake up from cartoonland.” I respectfully suggest you offer that very same advice to those who have steadfastly refused to acknowledge SCIENCE and RESEARCH. Google Dr. MacDonald and Dr.Sapi for starters.

And speaking of paying for ART, I assure you it’s a hell of lot less expensive that you might think. Oh and about Santa, I DO believe in Santa Claus. You want to know why?

Because Christmas is a season of renewal and faith. And I still have faith that the IDSA and its minions will come to their collective senses for the sake of so many sick people.

Truth always prevails.

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CherylSue
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This thread was a GOOD discussion on the pros and cons of muscle testing and is valuable for newbies. Each person must make her/his own decision as to whether to pursue it.
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Catgirl
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No doubt. I still stand by my opinion that it's, by far, the most valuable thing we can do for ourselves. Even my board certified internal medicine doc told me that. Those who don't want to believe it or do it, simply don't have to.

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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map1131
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Everybody deserves respect for how they want to approach their treatment. If you don't agree with concept of muscle testing, move on.

Don't make us out to be ignorant, simple minded
or nose picking idiots. Superior intelligence won't treat lyme & co.

Pam

--------------------
"Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill

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beaches
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quote:
Originally posted by map1131:
Everybody deserves respect for how they want to approach their treatment. If you don't agree with concept of muscle testing, move on.

Don't make us out to be ignorant, simple minded
or nose picking idiots. Superior intelligence won't treat lyme & co.

Pam

Ditto.
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faithful777
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quote:
Originally posted by map1131:
Everybody deserves respect for how they want to approach their treatment. If you don't agree with concept of muscle testing, move on.


This quote pretty much says it all. If you can't respectfully disagree without unpleasant words, don't comment and move on.

--------------------
Faithful

Just sharing my experience, I am not a doctor.

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TerryK
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Hmmmm - Hmm, you sound *exactly* like another person who was banned from this site because she would not allow discussion unless she felt it was valid.

She operated in a similar fashion as you by disrupting the discussion, getting everyone upset and finally causing the post to be deleted. She went to lymenet Europe but was eventually banned from there too. She finally started her own group. Perhaps you should seek out that group if it still exists.

The owners of this forum have decided we are entitled to discuss this topic. Your concerns are noted so please move on and allow this discussion to continue.

Terry

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map1131
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Terry, I wrote out the same post about this poster, reminding me of someone from lymenet past. I erased it before I hit enter.

We've seen our share of this type over the years. Funny they always seem to disappear??

Pam

--------------------
"Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill

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MichaelTampa
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quote:
Originally posted by Hmm...:
I'm not going to fall for the idea that all opinions are valid. They aren't. Not all opinions carry equal weight for the sheer fact that some are wrong.

I'm not going to fall for that either. For example, I know that many of yours are idiotic.
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TerryK
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There are dozens of muscle testing methods that have been developed since Dr. George Goodheart first developed applied kinesiology in the 1960's.

Some are complex methodologies that use reflex or acupuncture points to help determine weaknesses in the body while other methods are very simple and test for muscle weakness or strength in the presence of various supplements, foods etc..

Accuracy can vary greatly from one practioner to the next because there are many pitfalls to accuracy with muscle testing. Ask for recommendations and use common sense.

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TerryK
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map - yes, this poster is very familiar and from what I've seen in the past they will do their best to have their way by disrupting the discussion.

The great thing about this type of forum is that we don't have to read or respond to a poster unless we want to.

Terry

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faithful777
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Following.....

--------------------
Faithful

Just sharing my experience, I am not a doctor.

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beaches
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thx for keeping this open...
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faithful777
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[Smile]

--------------------
Faithful

Just sharing my experience, I am not a doctor.

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