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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Eleuthero

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Author Topic: Eleuthero
Kat1777
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I've been reading Buhner's book and because my main lingering symptoms are fatigue and mental fog, this herb very much interests me. Buhner doesn't list any contraindications, but does anyone know if this is okay to take along with antibiotics?

I just saw my LLMD and he said to try astragalus. However, Buhner says astragalus is not indicated for late stage Lyme. How do I know what stage I'm at? I was definitely, definitely late stage when I began treatment seven months ago, but would I still be considered that stage after so much treatment?

This disease is so confusing on top of being pure frustration! [confused]

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Keebler
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Astragalus is usually too stimulating for someone with chronic lyme. Late stage is also what is called chronic lyme, not a brand new case.

It's best for an early, acute case.

However, for a cold or flu, it may be appropriate for short term.

And, if in a VERY LOW amount with other herbs, it can be fine. It's all about how well balanced the formula is for the person taking it. It may be, in light of other supplements you are taking that may be balancing to it, that your LLMD's suggestion would work as long as it's not alone and not too high a dose.

Do consider the detail in Buhner's books. His work is excellent.

A LL ND (naturopathic doctor) would be best to consult, if at all possible. See link set further down.

As for Eleuthero, yes, excellent & it is fine to take while on antibiotics, just not at the same time. Usually best to separate by a couple hours:

Rx

Supplements

Probiotics
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[ 10-05-2013, 04:06 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Keebler
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Eleuthero (Siberian Ginseng) is a key adrenal support herb (and adaptogen). Detail here:

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/89790

Topic: NATURAL SLEEP & ADRENAL SUPPORT
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Keebler
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When considering herbal / nutritional / adjunct methods:

if at all possible - because each person & each case is different - it's best to consult with an ILADS-educated LL ND (lyme literate naturopathic doctor) (or similar) who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -

- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present, and has completed the ILADS Physician Training Program (see: www.ilads.org )

Many LL NDs incorporate antibiotics (depending upon the licensing laws in their state). Some LLMDs and LL NDs have good working relationships.

When possible, it's great to have both a LLMD and LL ND and even better when they have a long-standing professional relationship.

-----------------------

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/2/13964

How to find an ILADS-educated LL:

N.D. (Naturopathic Doctor);

L.Ac. (Acupuncturist);

D.Ay. (Doctor of Ayurvedic Medicine);

D.O.M. (Doctor of Oriental Medicine);

D.O. (Doctor of Osteopathy);

D.C. (Doctor of Chiropractic);

Integrative / Holistic M.D., etc.

Be aware that integrative doctors can have various levels of formal herbal &/or nutritional education, perhaps even just a short course. Do ask first. Some have learned on their own from experts in the field. There are many ways to acquire knowledge and most are eager to share basic details about their training. You want someone with a deep knowledge.

Some of the specialities above may not actually treat lyme yet, for things such as physical adjustments, it is just good that they are also LL, at least to some degree (to know never to suddenly twist the neck or spine).

Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:

Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures from all corners of medicine;

knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.

You can compare and contrast many approaches.

BASIC HERBAL EDUCATIONAL & SAFETY links,

BODY WORK links with safety tailored to lyme patients, etc.
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ukcarry
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By the way, on his website SB says that some people with chronic Lyme have used astragalus successfully, so he indicates that it is a question of 'suck it and see' rather than an out and out no-no.
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Keebler
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One way to tell is if you feel stimulated or not. No herbal formula should "wire" you or "zoom you to the moon" as that can indicate it's too strong and needs better balance.

The same in reverse for herbs that are to help calm. They should not knock you out.

It can be hard to distinguish sometimes, between a good energy support or immune support - and what is too much of a boost. Just be wary of any "boosting" feeling. Back away. OFten, that can boomerang and then leave us feeling even more depleted.

The idea is a balanced overall approach that can serve & support you.

It's always best to start dose low & slowly build up to desired dose (unless for a brand new infection) with any herb until you can see how your body likes it. Rather than the herbs doing this or that TO you, they are food for your body to function, the support. They should HELP you in the driver's seat but not take over the wheel.
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Brussels
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I loved both astragalus and eleuthero. I find that astragalus was more helpful in the long term for me.

Eleuthero was good, but I could only use it temporarily, and it was MUCH stronger than astragalus.

I had chronic lyme.

I am absolutely not afraid of astragalus, as it is consumed as food, by children and adults in China (info from Buhner himself).

I would take eleuthero slowly. It did help me for a while, much better than any other ginseng or other immunostimulatns (that never really helped me).

None of them cured lyme though, but were good as supportive therapy.

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rowingmom
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We use astragalus, but only 1 cap 3x weekly.

I definately overdid it when I tried dosing according to the label - 3x daily. For the first day I felt like a teenager. I was actually doing cartwheels and jumping on our daughter's trampoline. I thought "that's it! I'm cured!"

The next day after dosing 3 more times I felt like I was hit by a load of bricks. Huge muscle aches and flu-like all-over body pain. It took me a couple months (taking advil) to recover from that one. Silly me!

I have used Siberian ginseng, but found after a month or so it was causing me estrogen dominance symptoms. Breast swelling, water retention, palpitations etc.

I personally don't do well with the adaptogens. I find them over-stimulating even at 1/2-1/4 dose.

--------------------
13 yo DX PANS/Tourette's/Asperger's/ADHD treated for Igenex positive bartonella/IND lyme with 2 years of abx treatment. Weaned off abx April 2013 at 80% improvement. Continuing with Buhner bartonella/babesia protocols. Aug 2014 99% improvement.

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