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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » 2 questions: Artemisinin & Anti-Oxidents... and Aretemisinin & Grapefruit juice

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Author Topic: 2 questions: Artemisinin & Anti-Oxidents... and Aretemisinin & Grapefruit juice
happydaychick
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Member # 37799

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Hello!

I just tested positive for Babesia Dunacni and parasites. I am still waiting on the results of my Igenex FISH test. I start Alinia next week then start Liposomal Artemisinin the following week.

I have very few babesia symptoms (random stabbing pains and occasionally motion sickness) but that is about it. I’m hoping I don’t herx too much while on these herbs since my sx are so mild. I’m afraid to stir up the babesia and wonder if I should just let sleeping dogs lie...

I have been reading about Artemisinin and how it can be deactivated by anti-oxidents. Now, thanks to Dr Google I’m thoroughly confused! (i.e. By Dr Google, I mean I am reading too much on the internet…not to be confused with a real doc! [Smile] ), From what I have read, Artemisinin has a ½ life of 3 hours. To be safe, should I take my vitamin C and multi-vitamin between doses, with a minimum at 4+ hours after I take the ART to ensure I do not deactivate the Artemisinin? Or do I not take any anti-oxidents?

I’m curious what others have done.

Also, what about taking it with Grapefruit juice to make it absorb better?? Is this true?

Thanks for your help!

Posts: 80 | From New England | Registered: Jun 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
joalo
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Buried on page two.

--------------------
Sick since January 1985. Misdiagnosed for 20 years. Tested CDC positive October 2005. Treating since April 2006.

Posts: 3228 | From Somewhere west of the Mississippi | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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Disclaimer: I can't answer your question. Still, there are some things that may help as you investigate.


Artemisinin, itself, has some antioxidant properties, itself. As with all herbs, though, often it gets better when the right herb(s) go with it. [And, for protozoa infections such as babesia and malaria, artemisinin is best with some Rx, too. Just never alone.]

Most herbs have antioxidant properties. But these antioxidants don't all necessary decrease the strength of herbs or even Rx, often they enhance them.

But I do understand your wondering about the half-life and how long this will stick around to do its share of the work, so to speak. The book below will answer that, I'm sure. I don't recall all I read in it but it was essential to me.

I can't speak to grapefruit juice that that can be awfully hard on the stomach for someone with lyme for many reasons. It can be caustic if the stomach lining is tender as often is with lyme.

Artemisinin can stress the liver detox pathway, Cytochrome P-450, (I've read). Perhaps, more specifically:

"Artemisinin is also metabolized by CYP2B6," (Kroll: http://abelpharmboy.wordpress.com/2009/08/17/is_artemisinin_really_behind_t/ )


With lyme, the liver is often overwhelmed, anyway. I know that grapefruit juice can affect the liver's C P-450 pathway but I'm not sure how in relation to this concern. If it adds any stress, that would not be good.

Due to the liver stress it can cause, liver support MUST go along with artemisinin. Now, as to where on the clock that happens, I'm not sure as I could never tolerate artemisinin very long and moved along to other things.

If possible, connect with a LL ND who can answer this but also offer various other suggestions.

You ask what can help artemisinin work better? Be sure to read this book / site page for its detail on artemisinin:


http://tinyurl.com/5drx94

Book: Lyme Disease and Modern Chinese Medicine -

- by Dr. QingCai Zhang, MD & Yale Zhang

web site: try www.sinomedresearch.org

Passwords: "clinic" and then "clinic" again

or call for help: Hepapro - www.hepapro.com
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[ 10-27-2013, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
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When considering herbal / nutritional / adjunct methods:

if at all possible - because each person & each case is different - it's best to consult with an ILADS-educated LL ND (lyme literate naturopathic doctor) (or similar) who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -

- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present, and has completed the ILADS Physician Training Program (see: www.ilads.org )

Many LL NDs incorporate antibiotics (depending upon the licensing laws in their state). Some LLMDs and LL NDs have good working relationships.

When possible, it's great to have both a LLMD and LL ND and even better when they have a long-standing professional relationship.

-----------------------

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/2/13964

How to find an ILADS-educated LL:

N.D. (Naturopathic Doctor);

L.Ac. (Acupuncturist);

D.Ay. (Doctor of Ayurvedic Medicine);

D.O.M. (Doctor of Oriental Medicine);

D.O. (Doctor of Osteopathy);

D.C. (Doctor of Chiropractic);

Integrative / Holistic M.D., etc.

Be aware that integrative doctors can have various levels of formal herbal &/or nutritional education, perhaps even just a short course. Do ask first. Some have learned on their own from experts in the field. There are many ways to acquire knowledge and most are eager to share basic details about their training. You want someone with a deep knowledge.

Some of the specialities above may not actually treat lyme yet, for things such as physical adjustments, it is just good that they are also LL, at least to some degree (to know never to suddenly twist the neck or spine).

Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:

Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures from all corners of medicine;

knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.

You can compare and contrast many approaches.

BASIC HERBAL EDUCATIONAL & SAFETY links,

BODY WORK links with safety tailored to lyme patients, etc.
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Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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Re: Babesia tool box:

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/115218

CRYPTOLEPIS sanguinolenta
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Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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