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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Some questions about HBOT from those who have gotten better...

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Author Topic: Some questions about HBOT from those who have gotten better...
triathletelymie
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For those of you who have gotten better with the help of HBOT, I have a few questions, if you don't mind...

1. It appears that a lot of folks who have gotten better from HBOT have done, literally, hundreds of dives and purchased their own unit. Has anyone gotten well with HBOT and, if so, have they done so with just the 40 dives, as my LLMD has currently prescribed, or is it more of a long-term process...expensive either way...either with a facility where you do the dives or else by having to purchase your own unit?

2. Were you taking antibiotics concurrently with the dives?

3. Any bad reaction/herx with any of the dives?

4. Was your improvement maintained after stopping the dives?

Thanks! Any thoughts would be appreciated! I'm a little nervous and skeptical, yet again, attempting to try another questionable expensive treatment methodology in order to "attempt" to achieve wellness...most likely, yet again, pouring more money down that big old lyme toilet! [toilet]

~tri

--------------------
? date of bite/no rash
10/09 symptoms, 4/10 diagnosed, after 6 mos. ER visits, tons of docs/tests
CDC+ 23/39/41/45/58/66/93
currently on oral plaquenil, doryx, rifampin, pyrazinamide, nystatin, numerous supplements

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spinning122
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Hi triathletelymie,

I am actually in the process of doing my 40 dives at a clinic, so I hope others will chime in to help you out, but I'll answer what I can for now!

1. I just went to my 31st "dive" today, and although I am feeling improvements (all my muscle/joint/bone pain is gone!) I believe that it will have to be a long term, slow healing process.. at least for me since I've had Lyme for 20+ years.

Of course, HBOT at the center is ridiculously cost-prohibitive, so pursuing treatment using the mHBOT route for long-term home use seems more appropriate. This is what I plan to use after I finish my set at the clinic. Phoiph, who is a member here on Lymenet, is very knowledgeable and helpful with questions.. I encourage you to PM her!

A couple of the staff at my clinic did fully recover with just a little over 40 dives I believe (60ish?) and they treated with antibiotics concurrently.

2. I am currently still taking oral antibiotics with HBOT, Tindamax and Biaxin. Supposedly HBOT works to help the meds penetrate hard-to-reach places. (did you check out LymeMD's comments below the blogpost yet? he pretty much sums up how hyperbaric helps Lyme patients:

http://lymemd.blogspot.com/2013/10/immune-hyperstimulation-lyme-disease.html )

3. I am definitely experiencing herx reactions... in the form of trembling, nausea, cold sweats, rapid heartbeat, and sometimes spine pain and that flu-ish feeling, but I have noticed that the herx does not last nearly as long now that I'm doing HBOT compared to the time when I was antibiotics alone (a couple hours-a day compared to the weeks of herxing I used to experience).

4. I have yet to find out but I actually don't intend to discontinue my dives as long as I have my chamber..I look forward to posting on Lymenet as a success story in the near future.

I can totally relate to your skepticism... my parents (since I don't work) have "wasted" so much money over the years trying to fix me... I had my doubts going into treatment but now that I have experienced HBOT I can say that I finally feel like there's hope for recovery!

I hope others like Phoiph will chime in here since I'm technically not "over the hump" so my answers aren't exactly what you were looking for [Razz]

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mbdq
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Hi Triathete-

I am also doing hbot via a mild home chamber. I have completed 36 hrs of therapy. So far it has significantly helped with my menstrual migraines (which were debilitating) and I am herxing like crazy.

I have had all kinds of symptoms flare, lots of shooting nerve pains and a nice new symptom of feeling like I am going to pass out! Since I started mhbot I have also had the stomach flu and a bad cold and I attribute this to my immune system kicking on.

I have been on high dose multiple antibiotic combos for 4 years. I have seen "the best" doctors and tested + on the culture test even 2.5 yrs into treatment. I am greatly hoping that mild hbot will get me well.

Even at 36 hrs in I can see how this therapy will require longer treatment periods. So I am glad I invested in the home chamber and can continue. Also, do to the strong herxing I am experiencing, I am not sure I could handle the deeper dives.

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CD57
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wow, great news guys! what chambers did you purchase?
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lymielauren28
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Following...

--------------------
"The only way out is through"

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Tanya R
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Here is what my Doc thinks of mHBOT.
http://lymemd.blogspot.com/2013/07/hyperbaric-update.html

He has written me a prescription to buy a unit, but I have been putting it off. Hoping the new meds I'm on will work. I had to stop Rifampin due to it bothering my stomach. I'm going to push for IV as I've been on orals for 4 years. Enough is enough.

--------------------
Hi all, I was diagnosed with Lyme in 2008. Co-infections: Babesia & Bartonella. Currently treating Babs with Infuserve Cryptolepis and Lyme with mHBOT.

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mbdq
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I am renting an oxyhealth respiro 270 with an oxygen concentrator. Phoiph has been instrumental in guiding me through it all.

I am also on Bicillin 1x per week and pulse Tindamax 3 days per week. Also samento, monolaurin and some supportive supplements.

I have also been breaking out in rashes on different parts of my body- all very interesting.

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spinning122
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I will also be using the Respiro 270 + oxygen concentrator after my sessions at the clinic are up.

mbdq, that is interesting! My very first week I was itchy all over with weird stabbing/tingling nerve pain...and small rashes on random parts of my body too.

The itching and nerve pain have subsided, and my main herxing now comes in the form of severe pressure headaches, random episodes of depression, and nausea (though that one could just be a side effect of the antibiotics...)

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Phoiph
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triathletelymie...

Since I already PM'd you my responses to these questions before you started this thread, I won't repeat myself here...but I am VERY glad to see that other people who are doing mHBOT are posting their impressions and experiences...

Unfortunately, healing is a marathon, not a sprint. If a skin cell takes a month to regenerate...how could one expect to heal from a serious, complex, long-standing, multi-system illness in 40 days?

The greatest thing about hyperbaric is that it not only assists in eliminating the undesirable invaders, but actually promotes regeneration and healing of the body...even nerve cells...what other modality can make this claim?

In other words, it is not just the Lyme and co-infections that must be addressed, but also the "collateral damage"...and this dual-action is the advantage that hyperbaric has over other anti-microbial therapies.

In my opinion, "low and slow" is the ticket...from other people's responses (i.e, herxing) you can see how powerful this therapy is...and it is not something that can be rushed. It requires a commitment.

It is also VERY important, in my experience, to give the body the building blocks it needs for repair in the form of nutrition, and gentle movement w/increasing exercise to move lymph and help eliminate toxins.

I really don't think of my chamber as a "therapy" anymore...it is just part of my routine...like exercise (although a lot easier :). Even though I don't feel I need it to maintain "wellness", I will continue to use it, as I am still noticing benefits. Knowing what I know now about hyperbaric, I would incorporate it into my life even if I didn't have Lyme...

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Phoiph
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One additional comment...you mention that you are (understandably) concerned that by committing to hyperbaric you may be "pouring more money down that big old Lyme toilet"...

Purchasing a (quality) chamber is actually an investment...and may possibly be one of the few Lyme therapies that would allow you to recoup a good portion of your money if you decided to sell your chamber, as used chambers have a resale value and are frequently bought and sold privately.

There are also rent-to-own and other financing options. Purchasing a used chamber from the manufacturer or a private party is another possibility, as well as pairing up with someone in your area to share costs in a cooperative situation.

I am more than willing to help anyone explore the options...

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JCarlhelp
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I have been doing MBOT for about a month but only 3 times per week as to many other things going on. I am not the ideal lyme profile as I am not as sick as most of you or I would not be playing tennis 3 times per week. Mostly GI and a couple days a month of general malaise. Having said that the MBOT definately makes me feel more energized and takes away muscle and joint pain. I will try to become more regular to see how much further I can go. I paid $7K for everything which was Oxyhealth top of the line used. It is an older model though. I watch Craigslist and Ebay for others. In addition a friend of mine just completed 20 dives in a local hard chamber and it eliminated all of her leg pain. Too early to give a report on sustained value but good early indications.
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canadianmama
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My son has completed his first 3 dives in a professional grade HBOT chamber.

He is doing it for as phoiph put it "collateral damage" as he recently had a viral attack on his lyme damaged nerve cells.

3 sessions took all his arm pain away and reduced his leg pain. We are hopeful that the next set will continue to heal his nerve pain.

As we are travelling 6 hours to use the chamber if it seems like something that he could benefit from long term I would think a home mHbot unit would be the way to go.

Glad to hear others have had good results.

We use photon therapy for lyme, viruses and co-infectors.

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CD57
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Following. I am greatly interested in this thread also having spoken with Phoiph and trying to figure out how I could swing this.

Are these units about as big as a twin bed, folks?

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Dekrator48
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What is the most affordable, portable, yet effective unit?

--------------------
The fibromyalgia I've had for 32 years was an undiagnosed Lyme symptom.

"For I know the plans I have for you", declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future". -Jeremiah 29:11

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JCarlhelp
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I would stay with the Oxyhealth brand. I used Vitaeris or Respero. They have been at it the longest and some of the take off brands would make me nervous. I am not associated in any way whatsoever just an opinion. If you be patient and watch ebay and Craiglist something should come up. Make sure it has an oxygen concentrator with an flow rate of at least 8 LPM. Learned a lot of this from Pholph
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JCarlhelp
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Here is a way to search Craigslist nationwide

http://www.onecraigs.com/

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JCarlhelp
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Just had an interesting conversation with the owner of a series of mild hyperbaric clinics. Mostly west coast.

http://h3therapy.net/

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Phoiph
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Please make sure you do your homework and protect yourself when purchasing used chambers from private parties or so-called "clinics"...

I have done a lot of research, and have narrowed down my resources for reputable vendors of new and used chambers and oxygen concentrators.

And yes, when using an oxygen concentrator with a hyperbaric chamber, you have to use a unit that has enough PSI (pounds per square inch) to counteract the backpressure from the chamber...as well as enough LPM (liters per minute) oxygen flow. The vendor I refer people to has the best cost for these units that I have found.

You can PM me for this information...

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Littlesprout
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I did the 40 dives per Dr Fifes protocalmnnindidnherx,maws on oral abx did maintance dives every 2 Wks for about 2!yrs. then the place closed down. I have heard that people loose their gains when they stop including myself
Good luck

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Phoiph
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Hi Littlesprout...

My protocol has been very different, and I believe this is why I have had success.

First of all, Fife's protocol uses much higher pressures. More recent research has found that lower pressures (1.3 - 1.5 ATA) are more effective for neurological, and certain other chronic conditions. Some studies show that for some conditions, higher pressures can produce initial results, but may result in regression later.

This article, written by Dr. Paul Harch, who has been researching HBOT/mHBOT for over 20 years, illustrates this point. His book also includes very compelling before and after SPECT scans:

http://www.netnet.net/mums/Harch2.htm

The other point I'd like to make, is that 40 dives was not nearly enough for me, and had I stopped at 40 dives and simply done maintenance dives every two weeks, I am sure I would not have recovered.

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WPinVA
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I was so happy to see this thread as I'm seriously considering HBOT myself.

I have a piggyback question if that's ok... is it a good idea to do HBOT if you have a serious yeast/candida issue?

From what I've read so far, it seems like maybe I should try to get the yeast under control first?

thanks!

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Phoiph
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WP in VA...

Usually, yeast and candida overgrowth are due to an imbalanced gut/immune system, often occurring as a result of antibiotic use and lack of healthy gut flora.

I had yeast issues before starting hyperbaric, and do not have them anymore. I was on no medications for it, as I could not tolerate medication/supplements for up to 5 years before starting hyperbaric.

In my opinion, by strengthening the immune system and assisting the gut to heal and normalize through hyperbaric, you are simultaneously balancing the yeast issue.

As I have mentioned in previous posts, in my opinion, it is not about "chasing undesirable organisms", it is about allowing the immune system to come back "online" so it can handle these infections and imbalances as it was meant to do.

My severe sensitivities/inability to tolerate medications may have actually worked to my advantage while treating with hyperbaric, as I was not continually perpetuating the imbalances and ingesting more and more toxins that would have to be eliminated...theoretically allowing my system to come back into balance with the help of hyperbaric...

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CD57
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Here is probably the only answer we will get from a doc well-versed in Lyme and co's as regards HBOT's effect on oxygen loving pathogens babs and bart:

----------------
I know this answer is a bit long-winded. This question keeps coming up over and over again. I do not know here this myth came from. But is absolutely false. I fear it may be keeping a lot of patients away from a treatment which might be very helpful.


If this were true nobody would get better since virtually every Lyme patient has co-infections. People do Herx with HBOT so getting worse for a while is part of the process. Oxygen does not act like a fertilizer to promote the growth of various aerobic pathogens/parasites. What is important to hear is that HBOT creates a milieu of: a natural antibiotic, decreased swelling, improved immune function overall, healing of diseased tissues, increased glutathione and improved mitochondrial function. HBOT is used to heal severe non-healing wounds in diabetics, patients with gangrene and other non-healing surgical wounds.

All of these infections have a combination of anerobic and aerobic bacteria. The treatment kills both. And very importantly, HBOT helps break down biofilms.

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Carmen
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quote:
Originally posted by Phoiph:
WP in VA...

My severe sensitivities/inability to tolerate medications may have actually worked to my advantage while treating with hyperbaric, as I was not continually perpetuating the imbalances and ingesting more and more toxins that would have to be eliminated...theoretically allowing my system to come back into balance with the help of hyperbaric...

I absolutly agree. People who go to the antibiotic strategy of getting well do a lot of damage to themselves. They and their physicians have a narrow view of health and how to restore it. They are not educated on the issues of toxicity from the environement, drug medicines nor how to renew nor maintain a viable physical body

Although I am not doing hyperbaric I am doing lots of ozone (oxygen)and colloidal silver. I feel quite well right now. It may not be a cure but neither is antibiotics for so many. Unlike them I can report that I feel well.

When I was working as a nurse I had a patient who had a wound on the heel that would not heal. I discussed ozone with the doctor but in the hospital we had no access. He had wanted to use hyperbaric oxygen but insurance would not pay. So he decided to try bagging the heel in just oxygen. After months of other attempts it healed right up without the need for hyperbaric pressure.

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Carmen
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quote:
Originally posted by spinning122:

2. I am currently still taking oral antibiotics with HBOT, Tindamax and Biaxin. Supposedly HBOT works to help the meds penetrate hard-to-reach places.

Can someone explain to me exactly the mechinism in how HBOT will help drugs to penetrate further into the body?
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spinning122
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Carmen,

I believe it has to do with HBOT's effect on blood flow. The pressurized, oxygenated environment stimulates angiogenesis (formation of new blood vessels) while simultaneously reducing swelling and improving blood flow, which is extremely helpful for assisting the drugs in the bloodstream to reach tissues and organs that have restricted blood flow due to inflammation...

[confused] I hope someone jumps in with additional information.

Here is a more in-depth list of how HBOT helps lyme patients:

http://www.improvehealing.com/patient-info#20


And one more link that helps explain HBOT's benefits:

http://hbtusa.com/about/

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Phoiph
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It should be noted that hyperbaric increases cellular metabolism, and therefore may effect the way the body metabolizes medications.

This may be the reason why some observe that certain medications are "potentiated"...and others may become less effective. Also, as the body heals, the perceived "need" for certain medications may be reduced.

These possible reactions need to be taken into consideration and monitored...

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