posted
Yes, definitely start one herb at a time. And try just one capsule one time daily of core protocol herbs instead of 4 capsules 3 or 4 times daily.
Hubby herxed on Buhner herbs even though he had already done IV rocephin and IV primaxin at the time. He had not treated babesia or bartonella very aggressively at the time he tried the Buhner herbs.
Overall the Buhner protocol was not strong enough for him, but the Japanese knotweed was something he stayed on for many years and felt was extremely helpful.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
We have been using Buhner for lyme/bart and have seen huge improvements.
Bea is right. Start with one herb at a time.
And start low. Don't try to exceed his recommended dosages, this isn't necessary and will only lead to larger herxes.
The thing is to stay on the protocol for a long time. His associate told us for at least a year when I consulted with her.
A consult is $150 for 1 hr on the phone and some e-mail follow-up.
We started out on japanese knotweed powdered herb decoction, houttuynia powdered herb decoction, sida actua tincture, cordyceps powder, very low dose (500mg 3x weekly) astragalus, ginger tincture, raw garlic, cilantro tincture, diatomaceous earth, NAC, enzymes (Interfase/serrapeptase for me, Interfase/boluoke for our daughter). This is all for bartonella.
We were going along really well when on a whim I ordered the CSA tincture (cryptolepis/sida/alcornea) tincture from WoodLandEssence when I was placing an order.
This has brought another level of healing for both my daughter and I. A maturity I haven't seen in her since she used malarone for 3 months during abx treatment.
It has resolved my brain fog issues as well. My other pain symptoms resolved with the bartonella herbs.
With the impressive results seen with the CSA tincture, I believe that we are both dealing with undiagnosed protozoan issues as well.
-------------------- 13 yo DX PANS/Tourette's/Asperger's/ADHD treated for Igenex positive bartonella/IND lyme with 2 years of abx treatment. Weaned off abx April 2013 at 80% improvement. Continuing with Buhner bartonella/babesia protocols. Aug 2014 99% improvement. Posts: 265 | From Canada, Ontario | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Buhner's protocols and the herbs he uses address multiple aspects of infection (inflammation, immune supression, quorum sensing, biofilms, lymph drainage etc) and not just the bacterial infection itself as abx do. These herbs support the body in healing, and don't just kill bacteria.
If you are going to be starting the Buhner protocols, I would suggest you at least purchase his book on the mycoplasma and bartonella coinfections. These infections are ubiquitous and most people are infected, whether or not they have symptoms.
The other 2 books on healing multi-drug resistant bacterial and viral infections are informative as well.
Here is another similar kind of protocol which involves supporting the body while simultaneously treating lyme/morgellons infections with herbs:
We haven't used this protocol, but the idea of supporting the body and immune system while also addressing infection makes sense to me.
-------------------- 13 yo DX PANS/Tourette's/Asperger's/ADHD treated for Igenex positive bartonella/IND lyme with 2 years of abx treatment. Weaned off abx April 2013 at 80% improvement. Continuing with Buhner bartonella/babesia protocols. Aug 2014 99% improvement. Posts: 265 | From Canada, Ontario | Registered: Jul 2013
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96063 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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gigimac
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posted
I have tried resveratrol before and I herxed pretty bad. Is there a difference between resveratrol and japanese knotweed??
Thanks rowing, interesting article with some great suggestions. Pretty sure I could not take all that stuff at once though, lol!
Posts: 1534 | From Greensboro NC | Registered: Aug 2011
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gigimac
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posted
whcih tea is that, lymetoo?
Posts: 1534 | From Greensboro NC | Registered: Aug 2011
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lpkayak
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posted
Yes-i buy the cut herbs he suggests in book from 1 st chinese
I treated with high dose oral abx for 3 yrs first
Then maintained with buhner
I cant take samento-one of the most impt-but still did well
I especlly like red root for detox
You need the book or his online site to do it-can get book used on amazon...the healing lyme one
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Buhner suggests Japanese knotweed which is high in resveratrol; however resveratrol is not the only chemical component of knotweed. He likes the whole herb for its anti-inflammatory and other properties.
Buhner's Healing Lyme book is a good one, but it is a little outdated. He uses many other herbal combinations now. The coinfections (mycoplasma and bartonella) book is good, as are the drug-resistant bacterial and viral infection books.
You will find that many of the herbs he uses to treat mycoplasma and bartonella are used for treating other multi-drug resistant infections as well as babesia. I think he plans to publish the book on babesia next year.
-------------------- 13 yo DX PANS/Tourette's/Asperger's/ADHD treated for Igenex positive bartonella/IND lyme with 2 years of abx treatment. Weaned off abx April 2013 at 80% improvement. Continuing with Buhner bartonella/babesia protocols. Aug 2014 99% improvement. Posts: 265 | From Canada, Ontario | Registered: Jul 2013
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lpkayak
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posted
does he talk about lyme in the newer books? i didnt think he did
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
I am afraid the whole idea is to take all the herbs and supplements at one time. My 12yo daughter has no trouble taking decoctions/supplements 3x daily. Making the decoctions or simply taking the tinctures is SO easy.
The mixture of all the different chemical components in the various herbs makes it hard for the bacteria to adapt. And the components that modulate/boost the immune system add another dimension to the protocol.
These infections supress the immune system which allows them to proliferate. With a functioning immune and detox system, the bacteria are at a distinct disadvantage.
-------------------- 13 yo DX PANS/Tourette's/Asperger's/ADHD treated for Igenex positive bartonella/IND lyme with 2 years of abx treatment. Weaned off abx April 2013 at 80% improvement. Continuing with Buhner bartonella/babesia protocols. Aug 2014 99% improvement. Posts: 265 | From Canada, Ontario | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Ipkayak - you know, he really doesn't talk about lyme in these books. I'm not sure if it is because he feels that when coinfections are involved that lyme is not as important, or if through treating the coinfections, lyme is also addressed.
When I consulted with his associate, Julie, she didn't even mention us using cat's claw, which I know has been recommended for lyme for a long time. She wanted us to use cordyceps/ginger for immune support. I just happened to add very low dose astragalus as well.
-------------------- 13 yo DX PANS/Tourette's/Asperger's/ADHD treated for Igenex positive bartonella/IND lyme with 2 years of abx treatment. Weaned off abx April 2013 at 80% improvement. Continuing with Buhner bartonella/babesia protocols. Aug 2014 99% improvement. Posts: 265 | From Canada, Ontario | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
ipkayak -- no he does not really talk about lyme in the mycoplasma/bart book or the herbal antibiotics book.
My understanding is that his babesia book will be published next and then after that he is updating the healing lyme book -- probably either 2014 or maybe not til 2015.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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ukcarry
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posted
I am really enjoying this thread. I have continued to be interested in SB's recommendations since i stopped his original protocol some years back and often look on his site.
Rowingmum, i found it very interesting to hear of what his associate has recommended for you and your family, so thank you for providing that detail. It's good to know that you are doing well. I have had my eye on that crypto/sida/alcornea tincture for a while.....wish you could buy it in UK!
Posts: 1647 | From UK | Registered: Nov 2008
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ukcarry
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The above is not a Buhner recommendation, but a 'Lyme tea' based on the original buhner herbs. It has been around for a while, but may interest someone who hasn't seen it before.
Posts: 1647 | From UK | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
ukcarry - Is there no distributor of these herbs in the UK? Or an herbalist that might point you in the right direction, or at least suggest some available herbs with similar properties?
A similar type of synergistic protocol, addressing inflammation, the immune system, and detox as well as lowering infection.
Just the fact that 2 similar COMPREHENSIVE protocols using different herbal combinations have achieved the same effect makes me think that no one herb is truely essential. A couple of the herbs were the same in both protocols, though.
If you are still interested in Buhner's recommendations you will really enjoy his newer books. His thinking has evolved over the past couple of years and there are plenty of research articles to back his suggestions.
Thank you for the link. I am a great believer in the lyme (or coinfection) link with autism. Our daughter has recovered from aspergers with treatment.
-------------------- 13 yo DX PANS/Tourette's/Asperger's/ADHD treated for Igenex positive bartonella/IND lyme with 2 years of abx treatment. Weaned off abx April 2013 at 80% improvement. Continuing with Buhner bartonella/babesia protocols. Aug 2014 99% improvement. Posts: 265 | From Canada, Ontario | Registered: Jul 2013
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ukcarry
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posted
Thanks, Rowing mum, i have read that link a few times recently and am familiar with the strategy he worked out. Am also interested in trying moringa, which i believe he also likes.
Because I am still committed to the Cowden protocol for the foreseeable future, I am more interested in the idea of adding in a few things after the New Year than starting from scratch again, and the CSA tincture seems to be a good option for two of the main co-infections, as well as probably other infections i may have. I am also 'bringing back' knotweed and am starting to experiment with one or two of the Nutramedix tinctures that aren't on the Cowden support.
I am leaving most of the add-ons until the New Year because It is taking me a long time to build up my time on the iMRS 2000 PEMF machine I have just bought and I don't want to rock the boat!
Wonderful that your daughter has recovered from Aspergers: what an achievement!
Posts: 1647 | From UK | Registered: Nov 2008
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surprise
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posted
Rowingmom is a huge asset to us with struggling children. Mucho respect.
I did feel pretty good while on Buhner's protocol for Bart, and loved his latest book on it.
I stopped because I was working hard on parasites, and felt a standstill, and the cost. As parasites left, think they released more
Bart from GI tract. I was buying the tinctures from Woodland Essence, which is a lovely company, and they tasted pretty good in a little pomegranate juice.
Maybe I'll go back to it...not sure. On a break of everything for a few days, maybe longer.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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lpkayak
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posted
through treating the coinfections, lyme is also addressed.
i bet this is true.
and the link from uk for the tea...that is what i used except i couldnt do catsclaw---i think i was one of the first to get it from where that was made
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
I have found andrographis to be effective-good for the brain- when used with antibiotics. I did get the hives type rash mentioned in how book, but it went away after several months while still on the andrographis.
Posts: 107 | From maryland | Registered: Feb 2007
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Keebler
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ANDROGRAPHIS paniculata - LINKS SET -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Rivendell
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posted
I use many of his herbs along with herbs and antibtiotics prescribed by my LLMD.
Without his herbs, I wouldn't be doing nearly as well.
He knows his stuff. He studies herbs extensively and picks herbs that most adequately address all the aspects of the disease, including the antibiotic aspect.
But also shutting down inflammatory pathways, boosting immune system, addressing brain fog and psychological disorders, pain, etc.
Inother words, one herb may do many of these things. (He tries to keep it cost effective.)
Can't say enough good things about the herbs he has picked.
But have also heard good things about Cowden and Zhang, byron white, etc.
But Buhner is the protocol I would pick, if doing this all by myself.
And you can always add other herbs, antibiotics, etc. His protocol is very adaptable.
Knotweed is soooo important for lyme. Much better than just resveratrol.
Marz
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3446
posted
I came home from LLMDs with 12 new bottles of things to take for Buhner's bart protocol.
Besides that I was already taking some of the things on the list.
I've narrowed it down because this is just too much to swallow and prepare and pay for.
But the really tough part is having to take some 15 min before meals, some with and some between.
Anyone else told to do this?
I did feel better after the first month, but was told to always stop for two weeks. This second month not doing as well.
Posts: 1292 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
We were told by Buhner's associate not to stop for at least 1 year. I think all of his supplements (well, except for the enzymes which have to be taken and absorbed on an empty stomach) can be taken 1/2 hour before meals and can be taken together.
I just mix the herbs for decoction in hot water. Let it sit for 15-20 minutes. Add the tinctures and drink the whole thing down.
We are also doing A-Bart.
-------------------- 13 yo DX PANS/Tourette's/Asperger's/ADHD treated for Igenex positive bartonella/IND lyme with 2 years of abx treatment. Weaned off abx April 2013 at 80% improvement. Continuing with Buhner bartonella/babesia protocols. Aug 2014 99% improvement. Posts: 265 | From Canada, Ontario | Registered: Jul 2013
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Marz
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posted
I admire that you do the decoctions rowingmom!
I barely cook much less make up a decoction. And it's not that I don't have time on my hands.
I have a little more than half a bottle of a-bart left from the spring. I don't like wasting supplements and since it loses it's strength with time, think I'll add in the mix and maybe it won't make the whole mix too potent since it's old?
Posts: 1292 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2002
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Probably the easiest of all the cooking I have to do with a 17 yo weight lifting, hockey playing son who is a paleo-eating bottomless pit. I seem to spend all day cooking squash, kale and beets. He won't cook this stuff himself, but will eat it if it's available in the fridge.
I have always found that A-Bart is really good at producing a herx, so it must be doing something, right?
Our daughter was on 30 drops BID for 6 months and whether or not it helped I don't know. She was on abx at the time too. Unfortunately we weren't addressing inflammation and immune support the way we should have been. She still has Bart, but is pretty much asymptomatic with Buhner.
-------------------- 13 yo DX PANS/Tourette's/Asperger's/ADHD treated for Igenex positive bartonella/IND lyme with 2 years of abx treatment. Weaned off abx April 2013 at 80% improvement. Continuing with Buhner bartonella/babesia protocols. Aug 2014 99% improvement. Posts: 265 | From Canada, Ontario | Registered: Jul 2013
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