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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Anorexia

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Author Topic: Anorexia
GretaM
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Well I hate to say this but it is time to talk about this latest symptom I've been having.

For the last four weeks steady, I have ZERO appetite. And I mean ZERO.

I wasn't paying much attention to it for the first little while, as I have gone low carb, and am aware that loss of appetite is one of the side effects of low carb.

But I started to increase my veggie carbs and incorporated an apple into my day to increase fiber.

My appetite has not returned.

On the days I work, I eat the most.

Protein shake with scoop of greens powder for breakfast.

Yogurt or dry cottage cheese with berries.
Chicken soup or beef curry for lunch.

An apple. Some Brazil nuts or pumpkin seeds.
And then that's it, I can't handle more food for the rest of the day.

Yesterday I had asparagus broccoli cauliflower for breakfast and chicken soup for lunch.

Today I had broccoli cauliflower and asparagus.

I am aware I need more food, so I try to make the food I do eat nutrient dense.

My soups and stews are homemade.

But this is ridiculous.

I am not concerned about if I lose weight, as I am overweight and could lose 60 pounds and still be OK.

But I am very concerned with not eating enough nutrients to support the healing process.

Any tips to stimulate appetite?

In the afternoons I begin to get nauseated, so I take a Gravol.

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Razzle
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Lyme itself, plus inflammatory mediators, have the ability to shut down the appetite.

Many popular herbs and spices are appetite stimulants - cinnamon, garlic, fennel, anise, ginger, thyme, rosemary, etc.

Peppermint is an appetite suppressant, so stay away from that...

--------------------
-Razzle
Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs.

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t9im
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Hi Greta:

Not sure of your medications but anoxeria is a side effect of Tindamax.

When our daughter had this her appetite came back within 4 or 5 weeks of coming off the medication.

The giladen (sp?) protein in wheat stimulates the appetite.

--------------------
Tim

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Kudzuslipper
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Hi Greta. It sounds like your work days are very nutrient dense. And even yesterday isn't horrible. Does the chicken soup have chicken in it?

I would be less worried about nutrients and more worried about the nausea.

Sounds like your getting a good deal of veggies and therefor all those good nutrients... Are you getting enough protein?

Are you eating eggs? Cause sometimes a hard boiled egg is easy to get down.

Sorry your feeling concerned.

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Anthropologista
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Hi Greta--I agree with Kudzu. Your diet sounds excellent nutritionally, assuming there's chicken in the chicken soup. I'd be concerned, though, about whether you're getting enough calories both to support the healing process and to do a physically demanding job.

Have you been tracking your weight over the past 4 weeks? If not, it would be a really good idea to start. I would find out if you've been losing weight, and if so, roughly how much over the past 4 weeks. Too much weight loss is very stressful for the body!

And I would ask your LLND how much weight loss per week, if any, is safe for you, given that you're on IV abx and working.

Foods that are dense in fat and carbs stimulate the appetite AND give you more calories. You can't eat carb-rich foods, but how about good fats and oils?

You could add 1-3 tsp flax oil to your smoothie, use more good fat/oil when making your chicken soup or curry, roast your cauliflower etc. in a generous amount of oil, eat almond butter, or hide teaspooons of olive oil in unsweetened apple sauce.

I know that adding fats and oils probably goes against the grain, but you may need them!

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Lymetoo
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Yes, make sure you have good fats. Maybe add some coconut oil to the smoothies.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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TF
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If you happen to be on biaxin, it gave me total anorexia. By the third day, I could not bring myself to eat even one spoonful of food in the entire day.

So, you may want to check the side effects of the meds you are taking. Check a number of websites because the side effect of anorexia may be possible but not common.

Also, if any med or supplement jacks you up, that can cause anorexia also.

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surprise
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Adding a big tablespoon of coconut oil 3x a day has helped me a lot- I mix it right into hot tea or a.m. cup of coffee.

I got the idea from Bea, who posted it here recently from hearing it from Dr. B.

Dr. B said a lot of us are borderline hypoglycemic, the coconut oil regulating...plus I needed the 'good' fat.

--------------------
Lyme positive PCR blood, and
positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011.
low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012.
Update 7/16- After extensive treatments,
doing okay!

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GretaM
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Hi everyone.

Thank you for your ideas and suggestions! All good ones!

Yes, the soup is homemeade in the slow cooker. Chicken breast, onions, celery, carrots, veggie water I save from when I cook veggies.

The beef curry is stewing beef, can of tomatoes, yam and onion, and a jar of madras curry paste, some more veggie water, also in the slow cooker.

Haha! If you can't tell already, the slow cooker gets used quite a bit! Haha.

That is a really good suggestion to check my meds to see if they cause nausea and anorexia. Not on tindimax currently, but it's getting added back in next week.

I take 13 sometimes 15 prescription pills a day...yes, thanks for the reminder to check the side effects of those. It is so easy to get complacent and forget to check the side effects of them all.

I am glad the nutrient part of the foods I eat is good. I am so worried to not get enough good nutrients from veggies and good fruits.

But the calories, you're right Anthro, not enough. I am going to try some coconut oil in my smoothie and then a spoonful at night before bed.

I have homemade (not by me), hemp/coconut oil butter, maybe that before bed would be good too.

In the last month I went from 200 lbs to 188 lbs.

Which would be very welcome if I wasn't sick.

Haha! If I was exercising my butt off, it'd be welcome!

But not good while ill.
I will ask my doc about this too see if it is bad news with the IV and other meds.

Thanks again for the tips and tricks everyone! So glad you guys are here. Helps me to stay calm and build a game plan.

[kiss]

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GretaM
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I forgot to add I am going to try some chai tea to see if that will stimulate my appetite.

Thanks Razzle.

Even fresh ginger in some hot water might be good.

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Anthropologista
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Hi Greta--you're losing 3 lbs per week! Healthy people intentionally losing weight are told not to lose more than 2 lbs per week. And weight loss causes fatigue, which you don't need any more of.

I'm really glad you're going to start eating healthy fats. Dr B's guidelines recommend between 1 and 2 tbspns of refrigerated Omega-3 oils per day, which is why I suggested flax oil in your smoothie. Nicola McFadzean (The Lyme Diet) recommends flax or olive oil if you're not cooking, and coconut oil if you are.

Could you also eat some protein in the late afternoon or evening? Perhaps some chicken, an egg, a 1/2 smoothie? It doesn't have to be a lot. Eating small amounts of protein more often will help keep your adrenals balanced.

My slow cooker gets a lot of use too, Greta! Mostly for chilli. I love having it cook meals overnight or while I'm at work!

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GretaM
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Hi Anthro,

Thanks for the suggestions. The flax oil may be easier to blend in the smoothie, because I like my smoothies cold and I think the coconut oil may solidify. I will try the flax.

I will try some chicken or a boiled egg in the afternoon also. That is a good suggestion.

Maybe just digesting that will get the gastric juices flowing and I might be hungry for dinner [Smile]

Yikes! 3 lbs a week does seem like a lot!

Funny, for years I have wanted to lose weight.

Now it's coming off and I wish it would stay on!

Haha! Murphy's Law.

I will try the suggestionns to see if I can stop or slow the loss down.

Thanks again
[kiss]

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Anthropologista
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Good luck, Greta!
[group hug] [hi]

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gmb
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Greta,

I think Sida Acuta includes an ingredient that use to be used in high doses in diet pills back in the 80's.

I think I read this in Buhner's latest book on Bart and Mycoplasma co-infections.

I quickly gained some weight back when I took a break from the CSA blend a while ago.

gmb

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GretaM
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Thanks gmb.

I have that book-I will look it tonight to read about sida.

It is in the CSA blend I pulse, so that could be contributing to this.

Thanks for that info. [Smile]

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Kudzuslipper
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murphy's law indeed! the only comparable thing I had was my very curly hair (which I spent my entire youth trying to straighten) lost it's curl during my 18 months of ABX. I was so incredibly worried and hated my straight hair... (it's now back to being curly)

The one thing I can tell about you Greta, is you are taking all of this completely seriously and studiously and you won't let it get away from you!!!

[ 12-09-2013, 10:41 PM: Message edited by: Kudzuslipper ]

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LisaK
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Hi Greta, I have been looking into this since I am experiencing (same or similar) thing.

- A short background-
I just went through my 3rd round of GI drs and had my 3rd egd (in 4 yrs). This lastest once I had to wait months to get in clinic since i don't have insurance any more.

Long story short, I just had followup apt and the dr told me I probably have stomach emtying issues- shich a previous GI dr told me LYme can cause "slow moving digestion" he called it.

While this didn't alarm me at first since it was helping me to lose weight- like you have been battling bulge for decades- but I have lost 25 pounds and some days feel like not eating at all.

so now after 2 drs told me "slow stomach" I decided to look into that and found this very interesting page:

http://www.thehumansideoflyme.net/viewarticle.php?aid=62

Blips from there:
"Newly discovered Lymeendangered cerebral hormones and renegade cytokines regulate brain-gut interactions thus initiating behavioral tendencies such as anorexia or a failure of satiety with resultant obesity

"Gastrointestinal Lyme disease may cause gut paralysis and a wide range of diverse GI symptoms with the underlying etiology likewise missed by physicians.

"Borrelia burgdorferi, the microbial agent often behind unexplained GI symptoms—along with numerous other pathogens also contained in tick saliva—influences health and vitality of the gastrointestinal tract from oral cavity to anus.

" Disruptions caused by GI borreliosis (Lyme) may include, amongst many others, distortions of taste, failure of other neural functions that supply the entire GI tract—paralysis or partial paralysis of the tongue, gag reflex, esophagus, stomach and nearby organs, small and/or large intestines ("ileus"), bowel pseudo-obstruction, intestinal spasms, excitability of gut muscles,

"inflammation of lumen lining tissues, spirochetal hepatitis, possibly cholecystitis, dysbiosis, jejunal or ileal incompetence with resultant small intestine bacterial overgrowth (SIBO), megacolon, encopresis and rectal muscle cramping (proctalgia fugax).

"Adynamic or paralytic ileus, a non-obstructive motility failure (suddenly "silent" intestines), may occur as a result of neuroborreliosis on an intermittent basis, with resultant abdominal distention. ...

"In addition, many patients with gastrointestinal Lyme disease develop symptoms reminiscent of Sprue/celiac disease and/or lactose intolerance all of which may improve somewhat when treatment for the underlying infection( s) is successfully concluded.

"Melanocortins are small protein molecules that carry messages between nerve cells in the brain. They are involved in regulating a variety of complex behaviors, including social interactions, stress responses and—most importantly in this context—food intake. So it is easy to see how interference with them could cause anorexia and bulimia

". . . Anorexia and bulimia may be autoimmune diseases—and so may several other psychiatric illnesses" (52). This passage refers to the work of scientists from the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden, who have been looking at possible connections between different gut bacteria and autoantibodies against melanocortins

"to see if they can determine which bacteria might be responsible for a variety of eating disorders. They are finding that the level of autoantibodies to melanocortins is positively correlated with anorexia..."

so much here- sorry for such a lengthy post. I find this interesting though, how I have told drs for years that I choke on food and feel full so soon while eating and nobody seems to know about this. LLMDS included.

--------------------
Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen

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Kudzuslipper
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great post Lisa. thanks for posting. interesting in relation to the bactrim discussion too...
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GretaM
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Lisa-that is an awesome post! Thank you for taking the time to put it in. Very helpful info [Smile]

I'm doing what Keebler suggested. Eating dinner for breakfast. Left over catfish, Brussel sprouts and broccoli.

I'm down some more weight here. 186 now.

I need to keep a food journal because I forget to eat. Without a hunger-cue it is easy to forget.

Found my protein shake (breakfast) from yesterday, assembled but not drank... Thought I drank it...sigh.

Then today realized all I ate yesterday was an apple, kale, brussel brocc and catfish.

I even picked up some rice flour butter tarts as an incentive to eat (full of sugar-not a good choice), but they're still in the package.

Can't heal this way.

Today cooking turkey. Hoping the smell of it all day will make me hungry.

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Frank-incense
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quote:
Originally posted by LisaK:
Hi Greta, I have been looking into this since I am experiencing (same or similar) thing.

- A short background-
I just went through my 3rd round of GI drs and had my 3rd egd (in 4 yrs). This lastest once I had to wait months to get in clinic since i don't have insurance any more.

Long story short, I just had followup apt and the dr told me I probably have stomach emtying issues- shich a previous GI dr told me LYme can cause "slow moving digestion" he called it.

While this didn't alarm me at first since it was helping me to lose weight- like you have been battling bulge for decades- but I have lost 25 pounds and some days feel like not eating at all.

so now after 2 drs told me "slow stomach" I decided to look into that and found this very interesting page:

http://www.thehumansideoflyme.net/viewarticle.php?aid=62

Blips from there:
"Newly discovered Lymeendangered cerebral hormones and renegade cytokines regulate brain-gut interactions thus initiating behavioral tendencies such as anorexia or a failure of satiety with resultant obesity

"Gastrointestinal Lyme disease may cause gut paralysis and a wide range of diverse GI symptoms with the underlying etiology likewise missed by physicians.

"Borrelia burgdorferi, the microbial agent often behind unexplained GI symptoms—along with numerous other pathogens also contained in tick saliva—influences health and vitality of the gastrointestinal tract from oral cavity to anus.

" Disruptions caused by GI borreliosis (Lyme) may include, amongst many others, distortions of taste, failure of other neural functions that supply the entire GI tract—paralysis or partial paralysis of the tongue, gag reflex, esophagus, stomach and nearby organs, small and/or large intestines ("ileus"), bowel pseudo-obstruction, intestinal spasms, excitability of gut muscles,

"inflammation of lumen lining tissues, spirochetal hepatitis, possibly cholecystitis, dysbiosis, jejunal or ileal incompetence with resultant small intestine bacterial overgrowth (SIBO), megacolon, encopresis and rectal muscle cramping (proctalgia fugax).

"Adynamic or paralytic ileus, a non-obstructive motility failure (suddenly "silent" intestines), may occur as a result of neuroborreliosis on an intermittent basis, with resultant abdominal distention. ...

"In addition, many patients with gastrointestinal Lyme disease develop symptoms reminiscent of Sprue/celiac disease and/or lactose intolerance all of which may improve somewhat when treatment for the underlying infection( s) is successfully concluded.

"Melanocortins are small protein molecules that carry messages between nerve cells in the brain. They are involved in regulating a variety of complex behaviors, including social interactions, stress responses and—most importantly in this context—food intake. So it is easy to see how interference with them could cause anorexia and bulimia

". . . Anorexia and bulimia may be autoimmune diseases—and so may several other psychiatric illnesses" (52). This passage refers to the work of scientists from the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden, who have been looking at possible connections between different gut bacteria and autoantibodies against melanocortins

"to see if they can determine which bacteria might be responsible for a variety of eating disorders. They are finding that the level of autoantibodies to melanocortins is positively correlated with anorexia..."

so much here- sorry for such a lengthy post. I find this interesting though, how I have told drs for years that I choke on food and feel full so soon while eating and nobody seems to know about this. LLMDS included.

Hmmm, I didn't know there was such a thing as gastrointestinal Lyme. I've been diagnosed with Idiopathic (they don't know what causes it) Gastroparesis (slow stomach emptying) and it makes eating anything a disaster. Bloating, fatigue, headaches and muscle aches after eating anything. It's one of my worst symptoms and its been limiting my weight for years now. I'm under weight at this point and I don't seem able to gain any weight.
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GretaM
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Hi Frank [Smile]

I'm not sure if gastro lyme is such a thing per definition, but definately lyme messes the hormones and signals everywhere else in the body, why not the digestive process too?

What treatment/modalities did your gastros suggest to help with the gastroparesis?

Glad to see someone else is up this late/early on the west coast [Smile]

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Anthropologista
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Fascinating link, Lisa! Sorry to hear of your struggle with your own GI issues.

Greta, you've been in great pain for the past few days, and then had a lot of involuntary movements yesterday that sounded pretty overwhelming. Symptoms like these tend to chase other priorities from your mind. Pain often triggers nausea too.

Yes, a food journal sounds a good idea. How about letting your friends help you as well? Some of us could remind you and ask you what you've eaten.

Perhaps we could share a virtual breakfast! Are you having your smoothie?

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Anthropologista
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Frank, I'm sorry to hear about your gastroparesis. Yes, this would certainly be consistent with Lyme & co's disruption of other autonomic processes.

Does anything help: a liquid diet? Eating very small quantities of easily digestible food throughout the day?

Are you being treated by an LLMD? If it's caused by Lyme, perhaps it could be improved.

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GretaM
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Anthro-Deal!

Let's have some breakie together. I will eat leftover cold broccoli and my smoothie and a coffee.

What are you having today?

(Just remembered some cold chicken in the fridge. Gonna have that and the broccoli instead of the smoothie.)

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Anthropologista
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Sounds a really healthy breakfast, Greta! We had Canadian bacon (appropriate!) and (GF) toast, with tea. I still have the tea, so let's toast your health with my tea and your coffee.

How about lunch? We usually have a baby kale, broccoli slaw, and apple salad with pumpkin seeds and lemon juice + flax oil dressing. And maybe scrambled egg yolks (intolerance to the whites)with coconut milk, baby kale, and scallions.

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Frank-incense
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My gastro doctor suggested that I take a pill with many debilitating side effects. I decided against it and that was the last I saw of him 3 years ago. Since that time I haven't really had a plan on what to eat because everything seems to bother me at different times and there's no consistency to it. I can have an upset stomach drinking water.

It's gotten worse in the past months (like everything else), and I've been pretty disabled by it. There really hasn't been a plan on fixing any of my issues.

At this point its very hard to say what is connected to the Lyme (or even really if I do have Lyme)and what is just a mysterious symptom.

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Kudzuslipper
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How was the Turkey Greta? Details please. Whole turkey? Breast? What are you doin with the leftovers?

By the way... Would love your beef curry stew recipe.

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lyme in Putnam
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Sorry Greta no suggestions just thinking of u

--------------------
He took u to it, He'll you through

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GretaM
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Hi Anthro-thanks for breaky today!

That kale salad sounds just delicious! Do you have
a recipe?
It sounds very yummy.

A friend took me out for brunch. I had bacon and eggs.

Weeks worth of trans fats! Haha!

Dinner was chicken casserole with green beans and carrots and an apple for dessert.

Frank-i don't know much about gastroparesis. Does it have something to do with nerve signals to the digestive tract?
Do digestive enxymes help at all?

Kudzu-It was good but I can't take credit for it [Smile]
I was in a terrible state yesterday afternoon twitchwise so my bf put the turkey in. He made baby potatoes and broccoli. Gravy with xanthan gum. No stuffing.

It was very tasty.

I stripped the bird down after. Twitching does come in handy for pulling meat off the bones!

Some meat for turkey tetrazini tomorrow night and the bones and the other meat to the freezer for sloww cooker soup. [Smile]

What do you do with turkey leftovers?

Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
GretaM
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Lyme in Putnam-you are very sweet. Thanks for your good wishes

[Smile]

Kudzu-OK, the beef curry is very easy and isn't a specific recipe per say but it always works out good. I do pretty much the

In your slow cooker put

1 medium diced onion

1-2 pounds chunky stewing beef

1 can of diced tomatoes and juice

1 jar of Pataks Madras Curry paste/sauce (it comes in mild and hot...the heat gets more intense with the slow cooking...I'd recommend mild then if you need more spice after it's done, add some cayenne)

Dash of worchestershire sauce


Stir the entire thing up.

Lay on the top of the mixture 1 medium to large peeled and chunked yam.

Add filtered water to about 2-3 inches above the level of the mixture.

Stir to get the water mixed in, but try to keep most of the yam near the top.

(slow cooker should be 60% full)

Put the lid on, cook on high 4-6 hours, or low 8 hours.

Variations:
well rinsed can of lentils
Potatoes instead of the yam.
Add in green peas near the end of cooking time

It gets quite spicy the longer it is cooked. I like to cool it down with a dollop of plain yogurt and some chopped green onions when I'm ready to eat.

It freezes good also.

I hope you like it [Smile]

Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
surprise
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Frank- incense-
Have you tried going 100% gluten free?
This is a huge problem for more and more people.

How about adding coconut oil 3x a day for some good fat?
I stir it right into a hot drink, it melts.

Digestive enzymes?

--------------------
Lyme positive PCR blood, and
positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011.
low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012.
Update 7/16- After extensive treatments,
doing okay!

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Razzle
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If you do have Gastroparesis, eating Kale will likely make it worse. Eating anything with a high amount of indigestible fiber or fat in it will usually aggravate Gastroparesis.

Liquids are usually the easiest for those with Gastroparesis to tolerate.

So if you feel you must get the kale and/or other high fiber fruits & veggies, then put it in the blender or vegetable juicer or food processer and pulverize it before eating it. That should reduce the discomfort from eating that type of high fiber food...

--------------------
-Razzle
Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs.

Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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