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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Question about MMS

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Author Topic: Question about MMS
2doggies
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Hi,

For those of you who are familiar with MMS, and particularly Kerri Rivera's protocol, I have a question. I was told the following about MMS. Anybody know about this, particularly that it destroys red blood cells?

"It is basically swallowing Clorox which cannot be a good thing IMHO. One especially scary thing about it is that it can cause methemoglinemia which basically makes the red blood cells unable to do their job. It also causes destruction of red blood cells. I believe the nausea/vomiting/diarrhea many experience with MMS is not detox but poisoning. You aren't supposed to take anti oxidants because they will inactivate MMS...well, MMS destroys antioxidants leaving your body prey to all kinds of free radicals which are extremely damaging in and of themselves. It sucks vitamin C right out of you. It will kill pathogens, yeah, mostly by destroying the blood cells they are in. It's really scary stuff. Is there a use for it? Yes, probably under extremely careful supervision and monitoring of blood counts and kidney function..."

Thank you for any input.

~k

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Lymetoo
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I don't know. It would be a really good idea to find out before proceeding with anything like that.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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jpsmom
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my son & I have been on this for over a month, i feel the effects of herxing from it & am told that it is been doing wonders for Autism & was referred to try this by a zyto practioneer. I was told to replenish with ocean water Vortex for mineral depletion. This is still some skepticism with the protocol, not taking vitamins & antioxidants is difficult. I dont follow this to the tee but seems to be doing something. we have labs for my son next week for cmp/cbc/c4a/cd57- we have not done for awhile so I am curios. I will post a reply in about a week or two when we get results back. We are only up to 14 drops, second go around stoppped at 8 then started over from herxing & fullmoon :-(
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tick battler
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Glad you are open minded enough to look into this protocol. Yes, there are a lot of ignorant people on the internet who call it bleach. Clearly these people have not taken chemistry class. If you dig deeper, you will see that it is not bleach. It is an oxidizing agent which does not harm body tissues but does harm pathogens.

Autistic childen are the sickest of the sick and these children are healing with this protocol. Nothing has cured autism before. Diet and other interventions have helped but on this protocol, kids lose their autism diagnosis and become neurotypical kids. Their labs improve on this protocol. Their seizures go away. The become verbal when before they didn't speak.

If a healthy person takes MMS, it should not affect them. The sicker you are, the greater herxing you will have, particularly if you take too much. Some have to start at 1 drop diluted in 32 oz of water and take only 1 ounce at a time. This should avoid herxing in most people.

My entire family of 5 is on this protocol and it has helped every one of us. We are all healing. We all take ocean water for replacement of minerals too.

If you want more info one the bleach vs. MMS discussion, read this:

http://mmsautism.org/chlorine-dioxide-vs-chlorine

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2doggies
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Thank you for the replies. It is actually Kerri River's protocol I was going to try. My gut issues have not changed not matter what I have tried.

Anybody know if MMS helps with SIBO?

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2doggies
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@tick battler - how much ocean water do you take as an adult. I have worked up to 2 tablespoons now and am slowly increasing.
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tick battler
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I take 70 ml's twice/day on an empty stomach.
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MattH
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My ND suggested I start taking a lot of alfalfa to improve my potassium and mineral levels. What kind of sea water should I consider?

I am taking MMS several times a day. I do not get it done quite every hour because of work but I am staying on this time much longer now that I switched from citric acid to HCL drops. The taste is much improved.

All the Best, Matt

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hiker53
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Actually MMS does make a form of industrial bleach when mixed with an acid--I don't care what the MMS websites say. I teach science and I know my chemistry. The MMS itself is not a bleach--that happens when mixed with citric acid of HCl.

I am not saying it won't kill some bugs, but it just made me puke. It will also, like antibiotics, kill the good flora.

If it really worked like it claimed to work, malaria would not be an issue in 3rd world countries.

Hiker53

--------------------
Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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tick battler
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Hiker - Have you really dug into this? I'm sure you must know about the red cross study in Africa proving that MMS kills malaria! The problem is, once the worldwide Red Cross organization saw what was used to cure malaria, they backed away from the study. But if you watch the video, you can see the African Red Cross administering it for malaria.

How do you know it will kill the good flora? How can you account for the fact that autistic children, the sickest of the sick, are healing and their gut disbiosis and bloating and constant gut pain is going away? Their brain fog is lifting and they are turning into neurotypical, healthy children? How do you account for the fact that Kerri Rivera's book has the highest rating on amazon and almost every testimonial raves about how it is healing them? How do you account for the fact that the facebook group following Kerri's protocol has 4,200 members following the protocol and it grows by over 30 per day? If this protocol doesn't work, don't you think you might read some testimonials to that effect?

How many drops did you start with? If you are ill, MMS will cause a significant herx reaction in the form of nausea and vomiting, among other things. If you are not ill, it should not have much effect, if any.

If you started with more than 1 drop per day, then you most likely would have had a big herx. Many adults on this protocol need to start with 1/16th of a drop or 1/32 of a drop per day and slowly work up to avoid a herx.

How much did you take to cause you to vomit?

tickbattler

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surprise
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Copied:

'I just wanted to share with you a little experiment I did at home with MMS and my milk kefir grains. I always doubted the claims about CD being selective and only oxidizing pathogens and leaving the good guys alone.

I activated one drop of CD and diluted it in 2 oz of water, then I rinsed my grains and added fresh milk, I waited 24 hours and checked on the grains expecting my kefir to be ready for my morning shake. Well there was no kefir, the grains stopped fermenting the milk, I tried changing the milk four days in a row without success. This to me confirms that CD DOES KILL FRIENDLY BACTERIA.'

From the Better Health Guy's website about the 'rope worm parasite' reported by MMS users:

'Dr. Volinksy is one of the main voices in the United States about rope worms, and he has noted that in their own DNA testing, the DNA of these "worms" thus far has been human DNA and it has not yet been proven that this is a parasite.'

'One person I corresponded with mentioned that they had gotten some information from a conference that had taken place in Seattle on Rope Worms. They suggested that the leading scientists that presented stated that they are likely not worms, but rather a combination of biofilms and intestinal lining.'

--------------------
Lyme positive PCR blood, and
positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011.
low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012.
Update 7/16- After extensive treatments,
doing okay!

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MattH
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Surprise,

I cannot argue with your test! Thanks for letting us know. Dr. K did a radio show on One Radio Network. He likes and support the use of MMS, however ............ he did say it can kill the good gut bacteria. Now, he is so deeply experienced that I do not pretend to understand his protocol from a radio show discussion so I would listen to the show to determine what approaches he uses.

He does talk about a blood exchange process that is supposed to filter the toxic load out of the blood to let the immune system get back in control.

It is funny that I had not heard about using this technique before for chronic Lyme. I had heard from a couple friends in the music business that a very famous rock group used a very similar technique in the 80's to get off of heroin addition in about 5 days. Apparently it dramatically reduced their cravings using blood filtering over several days.

I do use MMS and I do also take probiotics at times I am not doing MMS. I have improved over the last year but would not suggest what I am doing will get me fully recovered. I know I have much more to do, learn and adjust to. Thought I had a handle on my CPN and after 10 months it returned along with the CPN symptoms.

All the Best, MattH

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hiker53
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Tick Battler--I do not want to turn this into an argument. I did try MMS several times during my course of treatment including the "baby bottle method."

It made me sick to my stomach and I did not feel it was helping. MMS made me puke immediately--which is not a herx, by my body's natural reaction to a toxin. [toilet]

If it helps you, great.

I advise people to proceed with extreme caution.

P.S. The Red Cross backed off because the trial was faked and unethical. Why wouldn't the Red Cross want a cure for malaria? Think about Bill Gates who has spent millions to find a cure. [bonk]

www.pepijnvanerp.nl/.../fake-and-unethical-trial-video-claims-miracle-m...

Hiker53

[ 03-06-2014, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: hiker53 ]

--------------------
Hiker53

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darkness." 1John 1:5

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anuta
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I have been doing MMS baby bottle protocol for more than 3 months now. I'm at the 12 drops and I moderately herx. I've tried to up-titrate, but the herx becomes too strong, so I'm going to stay at thise dose for now.

Based on the energetic tests, before starting MMS my outstanding problems were protozoan parasites and heavy metals. Borrelia and other co-infections went dormantafter doing photnos and nosodes.

Few days after starting MMS ALL other herbs, homeopathics and supplements that I was taking before stopped testing. And I mean ALL- killers, hormonal support, Core, methylation support and even detox. The only thing I'm testing positive its binders(Chlorella, DE and charcoal).

Based on energetic tests-MMS is beneficial for my health and sufficient to eradicate protozoan parazites even at the 12 drops per day dose.

Will see how it goes, but for now I'm very happy with the results.

There are people on MMS Facebook groups who say that after 12-18 months on MMS they feel 97% or even in remission.

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tick battler
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surprise, thank you for bringing the Better Health Guy's discussion of rope worm to my attention. I think it is best to provide the full article so others can see that he is not suggesting that the rope worm is merely human tissue. I have seen them myself. They look very worm-like to me.

Here is the full article:

"Rope Worms"

 Last Updated: March 01 2014  Hits: 162


I'm putting this blog post together as people often email asking about rope worms. It is a common discussion in many chronic illness circles at present and one that I am keeping a pulse on as more is learned over time. Unfortunately, it is not clear or agreed upon at this time as to what exactly a rope worm is.

Some think that it is a parasite, and anti-parasitic therapies do seem to lead to the release of these ropes in some people. Others think that it is a biofilm community of many different organisms and toxins that the body is shedding or expelling. I've listened to several interviews about rope worms and haven't come to a conclusion myself yet, though I think it is more likely not one single "thing" or organism but more likely a community of organisms or a way the body is detoxifying itself.

Dr. Volinksy is one of the main voices in the United States about rope worms, and he has noted that in their own DNA testing, the DNA of these "worms" thus far has been human DNA and it has not yet been proven that this is a parasite. It's almost like something from a science fiction movie. Unfortunately, it isn't likely to be something that mainstream medicine or research picks up on anytime soon.

I spoke with one doctor recently that suggested these seem to be observed more in people that have done fasting and may be the lymphatic system dumping toxins into the bowel as a way to release and expel toxins from the lymphatic system. Others have suggested that these may be the result of GMO foods and a mechanism that the body uses to expel the by-products of consuming them. No one really knows at this point, but hopefully we will all continue to learn more about this topic over time.

One person I corresponded with mentioned that they had gotten some information from a conference that had taken place in Seattle on Rope Worms. They suggested that the leading scientists that presented stated that they are likely not worms, but rather a combination of biofilms and intestinal lining. This resonates with me more than it being one single organism.

Some have reported seeing these exit the body while using the Chlorine Dioxide protocols created by Kerri Rivera at CDAutism.org. Her book is an excellent resource for those wanting to become more familiar with chlorine dioxide and the parasite protocols that she uses in her work.

Another option that I have heard some have had good results with is a product called Parasite Free. I've also heard from more than one source that Para Cleaner may be useful in dealing with rope worms. Some have found Humaworm to be helpful as well. There are also discussions about the Rope Worm Enema Protocols discussed on CureZone. The enemas consist of using various substance such as milk, eucalyptus leaves, salt, lemon, and others.

Whatever they are, more research and understanding is certainly needed. We cannot overlook the fact that what people are seeing coming out of their bodies is very real and needs to be better understood. If you have additional information to share on your thoughts about rope worms or options that you have found helpful for addressing these, I would love to hear from you so please Contact Me.

Here's a collection of links and radio shows that I've collected thus far on the topic of rope worms:
•Rope Worms - What Are They?
•Two Papers by Volinsky and Gubarev on Rope Worms: Rope Parasites and Development Stages
•Interview on OneRadioNetwork.com with Alex Volinsky
•Interview on ExtremeHealthRadio.com with Alex Volinsky
•Facebook Group: Bottoms Up
•Video: Marcus Weddle on His Rope Worm Experience, His Initial Doctor's Visit, and several other videos
•Markus Rothkranz on Rope Parasites
•Discussion on Rope Worms on Cassiopaea.com

This is an interesting video because it would appear at least that the "worm" is moving after it leaves the body.


Was this helpful? If you found
- See more at: http://www.betterhealthguy.com/ropeworms#sthash.00YOt0Ti.dpuf

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hiker53
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I found Humaworm to be very helpful in clearing up symptoms.

There is some consensus among scientists that some of the worms in our body co-exist in harmony with the body. I suspect that Humaworm, MMS etc kills the good worms, too.

Truly this disease is very complicated and there is no one cure that fits all. What worked for tick battler did not work for me. What worked for me may not work for someone else.

Hiker53

--------------------
Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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Catgirl
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Rope worms are real. I have them and physically feel much better when I pass them.

http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1301/1301.0953.pdf

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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surprise
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*whew* Catgirl wrong file to open with morning coffee before breakfast.

Parasites, yeast, biofilms, infections and what's happening in the GI tract is the real deal, I'm on the same page there.

--------------------
Lyme positive PCR blood, and
positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011.
low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012.
Update 7/16- After extensive treatments,
doing okay!

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rzh1
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Surprise and hiker are right.

Chlorine dioxide works by cell membrane destruction.

I would like to see someone culture lactobacillus in a petri dish and then put a drop of MMS in it.

According to tick battler the lactobacillus should keep growing.I have my doubts on that.

[ 03-07-2014, 09:01 AM: Message edited by: rzh1 ]

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hiker53
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I performed a very simple experiment in my science lab last year. I took lactobacillus cultures from yogurt and isolated them to grow. (you can easily see them under a microscope).

I used the baby bottle method of mixing the MMS and the HCl and added 1 drop to the lactobacillus. Guess what--they died.

Our body cells have cell membranes, too, which is why MMS may work to kill bugs, but it is at risk of killing red blood cells etc.

I do not understand why it supposedly works to fix autism. If it does, great, but I will not use it in my body again. I also tried to kill a skin fungus with it and that did not work, either.

Hiker53

--------------------
Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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rzh1
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They died?Your kidding me.That can't be true. [Smile]

Well,it looks like you can't safely bleach away what ails you.

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Lymetoo
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I think it is the other parts of the protocol that helps the autism.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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hiker53
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rzh1--yep, it is true. MMS kills bacteria and like antibiotics it is not selective in which ones it kills.

MMS produces chlorine dioxide which is used for sterilizing meats, hospital surfaces etc. Sterilization means to "Kill all bacteria."

Mix up the MMS and citric acid or HCl and pour it on your jeans and tell me it is not bleach!

Tutu--what other the other parts of the autism protocol?--I am just curious.

Hiker53

--------------------
Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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tick battler
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Hiker - thanks for sharing your experiment. This is an evolving protocol and much is still to be learned. I appreciate input like yours which is based on research and investigation rather than just fear mongering. This is also consistent with MattH's post above where he said that DR. K mentioned that MMS can kill good gut bacteria.

So that is good info for me to know. I am not afraid to learn more about MMS, be it good or bad. We also know that antibiotics kill good gut bacteria but many take them for years in the attempt to regain health. And based on what I am seeing with myself and my family and the 4,000 other families on this protocol, my feeling is that the MMS, if it does indeed kill some good bacteria, still is healing the gut in most who take it.

It is not wreaking havoc on the gut like antibiotics do, causing candida and disbiosis. My comment is not based on any scientific study, but merely my observation and those of others on the protocol. These are children that, prior to MMS, had constant gut pain and disbiosis and huge distended bellies. Once on the baby bottle protocol (which does include probiotics to support good gut bacteria), these children are healing. Their gut pain goes away and their distention disappears. Many other symptoms disappear as well. They are healing.

Lymetoo - on what do you base your statement that it is the other part of the protocol that is healing autism? If vermox along with DE could heal autism, don't you think we would know that? Why wouldn't we just do that aspect of the protocol?! My children had major improvements within the first week on just oral CD (MMS) alone prior to beginning the full moon parasite protocol which involves vermox, DE, ocean water and a few other herbs. Prior to the addition of the vermox part, some kids in Venezuela did heal from autism on oral CD alone.

Hiker, would there be a way to test the red blood count to see if the CD is destroying red blood cells? Is there some kind of test to provide reassurance in this area? I have heard many stories of those who get normal labs finally after starting this protocol. But I am always open to investigating any potential concerns with this protocol.

tickbattler

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rzh1
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I think what hiker is saying is that bleach is a chemical that dissolves things, like fabric and human tissue.

SO when you drink MMS,it turns into bleach and starts dissolving you.

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Catgirl
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My husband used MMS years ago, and his lyme and co infections are no where near as bad as mine are. Not even close. I'm sure it killed off a lot of bugs. I remember thinking he was crazy to take it.

I am proud of him and realize he was way ahead of the pack. He endured my ridicule back then, and I'm sorry I gave it to him. I wish I could take it back. Being the kind man that he is, he understood.

I feel like the conditioning we've all been taught regarding western medicine has too many people living in fear of stepping outside the box. It's a shame too because I've made progress stepping outside the box.

I seriously doubt any doc would give CD to an autistic child if they thought it was bad for them. I've read info on it and it is definitely helping kids with autism. Why is everyone ignoring this? Is it because it's not FDA approved and you can't get it at a pharmacy?

If people think it's bleach and don't want to use it, no big deal, it's their prerogative. Regardless of anyone's beliefs, it actually IS helping these kids. One more time, IT'S HELPING THESE KIDS!

All of that said, the key here is parasites. So many people are in denial about them. They have to die in order for these kids to heal, much less the rest of us (JMO).

We've all learned with lyme that there isn't just one pill or protocol that works for everyone. For the most part, I try not to convince someone who was successful with something that it doesn't work, even if I think it's bad for them (abx).

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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Looking
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Well, since gov't puts chlorine in our drinking water and gov't sites give directions for purifying water with Clorox bleach at 5 drops per quart as per

http://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/EmergencyPreparednessandResponse/Factsheets/WaterPurification.aspx

then how worried should we be about this treatment?

Just asking as I don't know, but I do have a grandson with autism -- he is so orally defensive he won't drink anything that doesn't taste "right" to him.

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Catgirl
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Exactly! [Smile]

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rzh1
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When you put clorox into the water it quickly kills the bacteria then evaporates off.Then you drink the water.

The water you drink has no clorox in it or very,very little.

City water is treated in a similar way.Yes it still has chlorine in it when it is sent out from the treatment plant,but the levels are carefully measured first.

Even still,tropical fish cannot live in water fresh from the tapp.You must let the chlorine evaporate first.

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Catgirl
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Looking, check out this book (worth reading):

http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Symptoms-Known-Autism-2nd/dp/0989289044/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1394243221&sr=1-1&keywords=healing+autism+kerri+rivera

There is also a new second edition (I haven't read it yet):

http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Symptoms-Known-Autism-Edition/dp/0989289044/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1394243300&sr=8-2&keywords=healing+autism

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Looking
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Thank you, Catgirl. I looked at your links which led me to this easy to download 37 slide lecture on this Chlorine Dioxide.

About half way through they discuss why CD is not bleach. I'm no chemistry student so I haven't quite wrapped by head around it.

http://mmsautism.org/images/documents/AO%202013%20KR.pdf

Maybe someone else who is curious will understand this info better. It has some really "icky" parasite photos, so just warning you.

Anyway, I will send it to my daughter to see what she thinks of it. I don't know if I would try this on my grandson, but maybe I would on myself at some point.

I doubt it is any harsher than many of the other drugs for lyme.

Oh and I used to swim several times a week in the public pool as a kid and the chlorine in it was very strong, we would reek of it and our eyes would be red when we got home and I don't know how much of the pool water I swallowed when I was having fun. I don't think it was very good for us but somehow we survived to grow up.

Anyway, interesting discussion.

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rzh1
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Looking,here is something you can look at as well,pardon the pun.

http://www.thinkingautismguide.com/2013/01/mms-yes-it-is-bleach.html

[ 03-08-2014, 07:58 PM: Message edited by: rzh1 ]

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Catgirl
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Looking, you are welcome! I would get the book I posted above. It will answer all of your questions, plus it's fascinating. [Smile]

Rzh, when we lived in texas, our water was so bad it bleached our clothes. I never had to buy bleach for our laundry.

In fact, our colored clothes were never the same after I washed them (even in cold water). Yet people drink the water there all the time. I do feel better whenever I visit, so my guess is it's the bleach.

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Lymetoo
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Hiker and tickb .. I don't have time to find more on this right now.

I am going by something I read in regard to K.Rivera's protocol. I thought tickb had posted it??

It was about the diet the children are using. I know quite a few mothers whose autistic children are improving immensely with diet alone.

Many are using GAPS or the Body Ecology Diet. I think more progress is actually made with the BED.

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Looking
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Thanks rzh1:

Sure is a lot of controversy and conflicting comments on that site.

One that caught my eye was :"did you know vinegar can dissolve an eggshell within 24hrs?! Maybe you should never ingest vinegar again."

Maybe I should try that experiment, plus I'm sure my stomach acids are breaking down all the food I eat without breaking down my stomach lining, aren't they?

Not being a scientist, I don't know where the truth lies within these opinions, maybe somewhere in the middle. Strong opinions on both sides.

MMS does have some bleaching action it seems but so does lemon juice so I don't know if it being bleach or related to bleach is all that concerning to me.

Reminds me of long term antibiotic controversy, some docs are sure it will kill you, others say it will cure you?????? And yes, antibiotics can wreck your stomach so we have to be careful with them.

We all have to do our research and decide on what risks we will take. I don't think dilute bleach is harmful or I would be dead by now just from swimming and drinking my tap water which some days reeks along with the shower water, but I still use it right away.

If I do ever use MMS, I will try the bath or the ear drops first and if I'm still alive might try the other treatments. Not sure about this, yet.

Thanks for caring, caution is always a good thing but so is being open to researching new things.

And Lyme sucks and the docs around here won't even look you in the eye if you mention the "L" word!

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Looking
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Catgirl, I found some great info on anesthetic use on kids with autism at that mms autism site that I'm definitely sending to my daughter.

My grandson will fight to the death rather than let a dentist into his mouth and so even for a cleaning they knock him out and she is very concerned it is damaging to him and it freaks her out the way he behaves after so she puts off the cleanings.

Anyway this is the article if anyone is interested:

http://mmsautism.org/images/documents/Anesthesia%20and%20the%20Autistic%20Child

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2doggies
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As someone else said, abx also kill good bacteria yet people take them to get better. But abx do not do all the other stuff CD does, like break through biofilm for example.
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tick battler
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Hi Catgirl! Thanks for all of your thoughtful posts...amazing that your husband hasn't dissolved yet from his MMS use?! [Smile]

Looking - please feel free to pm me if you are interested in speaking more about the CD protocol for your grandson. I have all three of my kids on it and they have made HUGE improvements. My son with an IEP will probably be done with it by the end of this year. He was high functioning autism and now is so neurotypical that he tells me not to say anything to embarrass him in front of his friends! (He is 9.)

I think you would enjoy joining the CD Autism facebook page so you can passively observe for a while and read the many posts from parents and caregivers who report that after a month or two on the protocol, their children are sitting quietly in the dentist chair and taking showers without screaming and making eye contact and starting to say words and making many, many other gains.

Lymetoo - yes diet is step 1 of the protocol. Kerri has not had any recoveries with autistic children who don't follow the diet. Some come to the protocol already on the GAPS diet and others are on the SCD. The diet Kerri recommends is no sugar/gluten/dairy/soy. There is an entire chapter on the diet. It is very important in healing autism but most who start the CD protocol have been already doing this diet for years without attaining recovery. It helps, but diet alone rarely cures autism because it does not kill the bacteria, viruses, candida, parasites and inflammation. That is why CD is so effective - it kills these things and breaks the biofilm like 2doggies said, all at once. And it clears out heavy metals. Nothing else can do this and that is why we have not found a cure for autism until now. This is a CURE for autism/ADHD/asbergers which appears to be healing 90% of those who try it.

tickbattler

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Lymetoo
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GAPS and the SCD allow too many carbs and sugars. That is why the Body Ecology Diet is so much better for them.

I pray what what you are saying is true about kids being healed, but I still have doubt that it is from the MMS. I've taken it before, when it first came out. Not impressed at all.

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2doggies
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Lymetoo, I have been active on the GAPS Yahoo group since 2009, and one of the moderators since 2011 I believe. Many families adopt a very low carb version of GAPS. Like me, some of them just stay on stage 1 or 2, not even consuming any nuts, yet they still don't see any healing. Others heal and recover their children with diet alone.

I personally adopted a low carb diet in 1996 but it was more Atkins style. In 2003 I ditched the Splenda, Atkins bars, and other "stuff" and went 100% Paleo. Since then I have been on a low starch Paleo diet yet my health kept declining. In 2008 my body finally gave in and I went downhill fast.

I know sugar is not good for anybody with fungal overgrowth, Lyme, or any other bacterial overgrowth or parasites, but sometimes cutting out all the carbs doesn't do the trick either. Then there are parasites that love fat. So if we are cutting way down on carbs and now also on fat, that leaves us with protein and a few veggies. I did that for 10 weeks and it was sheer torture. Nobody can live on that long enough to starve those critters.

Last but not least, I think they are smart enough to adapt and learn to live on just about anything. But that's just my opinion.

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2doggies
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There is something else I wanted to write last night and forgot. I am dealing with pretty significant gut issues that just have not cleared up. Since September 2008, when I was already on a low carb Paleo diet as mentioned above, I ended up looking pregnant after I eat. This used to be an issue for me occasionally due to food sensitivities but would always go away by the next day. It also used to be an issue during PMS but otherwise I had a flat stomach and no pressure/pain in my gut. One day in 2008 it happened and it has not gone away, unless I fast for a few days.

So....I wake up looking mildly bloated and after I eat anything, it really doesn't matter what but carbs are probably the worst offender, my entire abdomen starts to distend. With each meal it gets worse and I start to feel more and more uncomfortable. It's so bad that my lower back ends up hurting by mid-afternoon. I am also constantly hungry no matter what or how much I eat and I can eat A LOT of food. My husband is a tall man who weighs almost twice as much as I do and I can eat more than he does. I basically have been gauging/guessing roughly how much I need any given day and that's how much I eat. The hunger issue may seem like a minor symptom, but when you have been hungry for years it gets very tiring.

Then there is mild constipation unless I take loads of Vitamin C (which of course is not "allowed" with CD) and undigested food in my stool. Usually just veggies, especially if raw, and nuts/seeds. I don’t seem to have that issue with protein/fat.

I have tried just about anything for the digestive symptoms including going zero carb for 2 years, taking HCl/digestive enzymes/digestive bitters, taking l-glutamine, probiotics, lauricidin and mastic gum (for supposed h. pylori), coffee enemas, using probiotics rectally, GAPS with all the fermented foods/bone broths/etc., taking other supplements, and more. Like I said above, I was already on a fairly low carb Paleo diet when all this started and have continued eating low carb or zero carb. I have also taken Diflucan, Sporonox, and herbal/natural antifungals. I have taken Xifaxan for supposed SIBO twice, I have done Dr. K's antiparasite three times, have taken Biltricide in between a few times, was on Tinidazole for 6 months...and on and on.

Along with the gut issues, and not surprising, I have trouble concentrating, long and short term memory loss, rage issues/angry outbursts, trouble focusing, I am sensitive to sounds/noises, and on and off have anxiety/depression.

I am WORN. OUT. Considering that 80% of our immune system is in our gut I feel I need to clean up the gut issues before I can fully heal. I am also out of money due to seeing Dr. K in Seattle the last two years so CD is my next attempt. My biggest fear is actually about it not working for me versus it doing damage to my body. I am afraid that 6 months down the road or longer I will not feel better and will have wasted more time. Unfortunately I won’t know until I try.

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2roads
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Bone broth....hugs
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2doggies
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Bone broth?? Part of GAPS but not good for you at all if you histamine issues.
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2doggies
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MattH - the blood exchange Dr. K talked about on that podcast is apheresis. It's done by a doctor in Germany. I have a friend who is a patient of Dr. K who had it done last year and she does not feel better. Quite the contrary.

Also, Dr. K told me during my last appointment that apheresis would NOT be good for me because I have rope parasites. Then he said ppl with rope parasites tend to feel/get worse after apheresis. Well, which one of us don't have rope parasites at this point??

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Catgirl
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Tick battler, lol!

2doggies, let me guess, you have babs? Parasites don't let go very easily for people with babs (in Doc H's new book). Hungry all the time is a major indication of parasites. You have to get them out.

Diet alone won't cut it. Parasites do absolutely everything they can to hold onto dear life. You have to turn up the heat. So why not try something different? If it works on children, why not try it? Children's little bodies are so very sensitive. If it's helping autistic children, it's obvious the stuff works. And IT IS HELPING THESE KIDS.

Don't let other people's fears and opinions stand in your way. If you don't already have it, get Kerri's book. It has the answers you're seeking and it's only $25 on amazon. $25 is nothing for answers. :)

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2doggies
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Hi Catgirl...how did you know?? LOL Just kidding. I DO have Babs. Actually, other than Lyme that was the only thing positive on my Igenex and Co panel. Since then muscle testing also revealed Bart and Ehrlichia.

Anyway, I have been on CD enemas since January 2013. I just started back on oral CD. When I feel "normal" (ha!) I feel good about it. When anxiety hits I question it and pretty much everything in my life.

End of January Walgreens screwed up my hydrocortisone RX. Long story but it took me 3 weeks to figure out (was mislabeled) and my adrenals crashed. I had weaned down to 22.5 mg and was feeling good. Was also on one drop of oral MMS and going up. When my symptoms started, they seemed like die off so I started cutting antimicrobials, including MMS. I am still on a much higher dose of HC now (40 mg) and it has been a challenge to get back to where I was in January. Not even close.

I also have Keri's book...the first edition....and I am part of the CDHealth group. It is encouraging to read the posts there.

Thank you for the encouragement. I really appreciate it. My anxiety is high today also self-doubt, feeling like I haven't done anything with my life - 47, not working just selling my handmade skincare on Etsy, career stopped, can't remember anything, feel uneducated most days, try to remind myself it's Lyme and stuff but then it just feels like I am stupid. I hate to even use that word but the emotional stuff has really been coming up for me lately, especially when my adrenals crashed. Sigh.

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Carmen
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quote:
Originally posted by Looking:
Thanks rzh1:

MMS does have some bleaching action it seems but so does lemon juice so I don't know if it being bleach or related to bleach is all that concerning to me.

!

When I first starting using MMS I found that if I spilled it on my jeans that it bleached them. When I wrote this on a fourm i got attacked... claiming that it could bleach.

Well it does bleach and I have all the ruined clothes to prove it.

Bleaching is an example of oxidation. MMS is is an oxidant. All oxidants can bleach some materials if applied to a susceptible materail in the correct strength. But MMS is not chlorine bleach like clorox. It is a different chemical compound. Bleach in the broader sense, is not a specific compound, bleach is a verb.

I just finished 28 days of CD, 3 drops taken hourly 8 hours a day. I found it very effective for some strange symptoms I was having. No negative effects noted.

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Catgirl
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You're welcome 2doggies! I am happy to hear you tried the CD, and are in the group. I'm sorry to hear about walgreens messing up your HC though. Adrenals are tough. I wish I knew the answer of what to do with them. Hopefully someone will see this and offer some advice.

I understand about the second guessing. It's easy to do when stepping outside of the norm. It's also very easy to do with lyme & company (the bugs mess with our minds). I get it with the emotional stuff and anxiety. We do have a full moon coming up (that might be part of it).

Get rid of the negative thoughts like feeling stupid. You're not stupid. You created a skin care line, which is pretty darn cool, not to mention creative! Maybe try not comparing your life with other people's lives too (that's a downward path). I'm a firm believer that negative thoughts can create a self fulfilling prophecy. We need to feed ourselves with positive thoughts, energy, and only hang out with positive people. You will get better, it just takes time. [Smile]

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Lymetoo
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2doggies .. I was not advocating the GAPS diet.

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tick battler
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In our experience and in everything I have read...anxiety is from parasites in many cases. So are elevated histamine levels. I have seen this first-hand with my kids and husband. There are many, many more symptoms of parasites and everyone can manifest differently.

When my kids were reinfected with our parasite- ridden well water, they started saying, "I'm stupid" and "I hate today." and "I hate my life." That went away on the CD protocol. They are happy kids and they love life but these parasites play with the brain causing major mental health issues, even beyond anxiety, anger and depression.

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2doggies
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tick battler and catgirl - thank you. Deep down I DO know that this is not me but the bugs.

Lymetoo - I understand. Your comment said that both SCD and GAPS allow too many carbs. I was just pointing out that many people do SCD or GAPS in a low carb version. Actually, with less carbs than BED allows for example.

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2roads
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Good luck 2doggies, let us know how it goes.
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Catgirl
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quote:
Originally posted by anuta:
...Few days after starting MMS ALL other herbs, homeopathics and supplements that I was taking before stopped testing. And I mean ALL- killers, hormonal support, Core, methylation support and even detox. The only thing I'm testing positive its binders(Chlorella, DE and charcoal).

Fascinating Anuta! :)

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2doggies
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Not sure if anybody is still reading this thread, but I need opinions. I mentioned above the medication mix up in January. Well, I am still on 37.5 mg a day of hydrocortisone and that is barely enough. At least i think it is. Sometimes it's hard to figure out if I am on too much or too little. Sunday and yesterday I took Biltricide (1,200 mg three times a day) and by Sunday night I had so much anxiety I skipped the MMS yesterday. Had worked up to two drops. The anxiety is better today, but I am still not even close to where I was in January before the medication mix up.

Back then, on 22.5 mg of HC, I had energy, did light exercise, felt positive, joyful, and hopeful. Now, on 37.5 mg I feel numb, blah, and have anxiety. Today I went back on MMS and decided to do 1.5 drops for today. I started around 9:30 AM and now, two hours later, I have a headache and backache. This could be die off or low cortisol. I have no idea.

So my question...should I stop the MMS and any antimicrobials really until I find a baseline with the hydrocortisone? This is my third or fourth time giving oral MMS a try and each time something happens. I hate to postpone again, but I also have no idea what is going on right now and how my adrenals are handling all of this. I hate feeling this low/negative and the anxiety that comes with it.

Thank you!!

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Carmen
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I dont know the reason for your use of cortisone so you can decide, but much inflammation is caused by pathogens of one sort or another. MMS will get to the cause.

If you have something like addisons disease or something similar attempt to get your dosage right first.

You must expect a herx from MMS. This will certainly happen for most folks, either from the lyme itself or other pathogens you have or other detox of metals etc.

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2doggies
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Hi Carmen,

I don't have addison's disease but did have really low cortisol levels when tested. So I take it for adrenal insufficiency.

Kristina

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Catgirl
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Have you energetically tested combining both the MMS and bilt (taking them the same day)? Maybe together they are doing it to you (it might just be too much). You could also try dropping the oral MMS while on bilt, and just do the enemas if you're going to stay on parasite meds.

My gut says your adrenals come first, so I would probably try lowering or eliminating either the CD or parasite meds (but you could still try CD enemas if you stop it orally).

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tick battler
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If you had anxiety from the biltricide, it is clearly killing parasites. I think you started too high with the MMS. Did you research the baby bottle method? I would start with 1 drop mixed in 8 or even 16 oz of water and take an ounce of that no more than every hour during the day. That is the best way to avoid a herx from the MMS.

We have found that we tolerate the parasite meds much easier if we are on MMS at the same time. It seems to help clear things out. But first we go up gradually on the MMS before we add in the parasite meds (vermox is the only one we use as part of Kerri's protocol). But it is fine to use others too. They are systemic though, and normally cause more herxing then the vermox, which stays mostly in the gut.

If you are starting MMS and starting biltricide at the same time, IMO, that is too much. I would ramp up VERY slowly on the MMS and then once you get to at least 8 or 10 drops/day, try adding in the biltricide. The adult goal dose is 24 drops/day but it may take months to get to that level so as to avoid serious herxing.

tickbattler

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nefferdun
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They claim raw camel's milk is curing kids of Autism too. Supposedly kids that have never spoken, begin to speak overnight.


Yasko was making a fortune selling supplements for methyl cycle mutations. Supposedly she was healing autistic children too. After blindly following the protocol for a year, one day I decided to put on two pairs of reading glasses to see the tiny little print of ingredients in the Neurological Health Formula.

Imagine my shock when I read it had folic acid, the very thing kids with MRHFR can't utilize, cyanocobalamin (the cheep B12 with cyanide) and magnesium oxide (nothing more than a stool softener).

Everyone is promoting cures. Everyone is out to make money off of people desperate for a miracle. The fact that the man who "invented" the MMS cure calls himself a "Bishop" and also sells pastor titles, is a big red flag to me.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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2roads
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It is a joke Neff, and I wish this topic would cease.


My family and I have been a victim of a very dangerous protocol already, and I for one, am ready for this one to end.

Hope you find your answers 2doggies, and that they don't include this.

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tick battler
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nefferdun - I am curious, do you have an autistic child? What is your great expertise with this protocol? Please share. Just because some protocols don't fully heal, doesn't mean another one can't.

Have you tried camel's milk? It does cause herxing in many. We have tried camel's milk and it helped a tiny bit but did not heal my children. There is nothing that has CURED autism and PANDAS and ADHD like Kerri's MMS procotol. I, unlike you, can speak from experience in this area. Believe what you want but why diss something when you know NOTHING about it?

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2roads
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I am curious tick battler, were your kids "autistic" when you saw Dr. J? I mean, were they really suffering cognitively?

I didn't get the impression when we spoke back in 2011, that they were like this. I mean, they actually sounded like they weren't herxing, and that they were really not too far from getting there. You wanted a herx reaction so you moved on.

Now, FOUR years later, you are talking ADHD, autism, and a slew of other issues.

We were much better before we tried some of the unconventional methods you suggested. I mean the NP you use said no one treated with the GSE she used, and I later realised why......of course the dose you told me was not what she used either, turns out.

I'm sure my son has residual issues from TBI's, but nothing like the ramifications of that therapy.

I think you should contemplate that perhaps your cures (although meant well) are causing 70% of your children's issues. I have tried to tell you that in the past. I am the only one on this board who may be best to speak for that, as I have walked down some of your paths.

My intention for saying so is to help your children.

It's a tough pill to swallow, but sometimes we need to cut our losses, think back, and perhaps not move forward.

Sorry for diverting this thread 2doggies-

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Catgirl
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Neff and 2roads, have you read Kerri's book yet? It's really good!

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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tick battler
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I am done posting on this thread and I do not communicate any longer with 2roads since she started disparaging me but for the record to clarify the untruths said about my children above by 2roads I will say this:

Since Kerri's CD protocol, all 3 of my children are excelling in all subjects in school, playing competitive sports, taking piano lessons, having playdates and enjoying life. We still have some herxing and rough days as we continue to heal and expel worms but my children have NEVER been better. We will most likely terminate my son's IEP by the end of the year because he no longer needs it.

tickbattler

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Catgirl
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quote:
Originally posted by tick battler:
... Since Kerri's CD protocol, all 3 of my children are excelling in all subjects in school, playing competitive sports, taking piano lessons, having playdates and enjoying life.

tickbattler

Sorry folks, but this speaks volumes.

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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Looking
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Tick Battler:

Having a grandchild with Lyme/autism who just got potty trained at 12 years old and knowing his Mom was bit by a tick in her teens which was called ringworm and seems no one knew any better at that time -- I understand comments berating how you are looking after your kids are completely hurtful and out of line.

I'm sure you have done the very best for your kids and I applaud you. It is a long hard road and if you have found something helpful, I am happy for you. Families dealing with lyme/autism need all the support they can get. It can be very overwhelming and depressing at times. I have the greatest respect for you.

Lots of love to you and your family!

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surprise
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(copied from Looking)

' Families dealing with lyme/autism need all the support they can get. It can be very overwhelming and depressing at times. I have the greatest respect for you.'

THANK YOU.
I have a middle child and we've been through autism, Lyme, and PANDAS.

People have NO idea what this really is like, unless they are living with it, OR,

they put their head in the sand (our set of grandparents here choose to deal with it this way),

or are ignorant.
What scares me half to death are the younger parents I see every day at the elementary schools

who think their ADD spectrum kid is normal.
The scary part? It IS the new normal.

Anyway, I may not choose MMS, and I am sorry if I have ever been too opinionated about it.

I've shared before, we have done a gamut of treatments for recovery with my daughter, some I am sure others would harshly judge.

God bless.

--------------------
Lyme positive PCR blood, and
positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011.
low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012.
Update 7/16- After extensive treatments,
doing okay!

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Looking
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Hi surprise:

My grandson has had many treatments and teaching methods recommended over the years. The ABA method (and this is only one part of it) where they sit them at the table and repeat over and over "what does the dog say?" (or any other animal) actually gave him PTSD.

If you say anything like that to him now, he starts screaming and crying and hitting at you saying "NO dog says!" "No dog says!" and it takes him forever to calm down.

Some parents have had success with it, but even the doctor agreed this method was harmful to him.

I still would not berate a parent for using it -- it may work for their child. I would only tell them kindly to watch for signs it's not a good fit.

Same with the MMS -- if you choose to use it proceed cautiously and watch carefully how your child reacts. I'm sure the parents are doing this anyway.

With Lyme and Autism, there are no one size fits all and nobody has all the answers or we would all be better. And unfortunately treatments are costly and usually time consuming, no matter what you choose -- even trying to keep your child on organic food!

You are so right that our choices are sometimes judged harshly but I think most of us know how to disagree without making anyone feel personally attacked, I hope. And yes all of us choose the wrong words from time to time.

And I hope your child finds the best treatments for her.

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Marnie
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I have an autistic child (Asperger's) who also has seizures, ADHD and learning disabilities. He does NOT have lyme - his problems/symptoms are due to genetics.

He also has a lot of anxiety and depression.

He looks to thrive on glutamate and adrenaline (= epinephrine), but too much isn't healthy.

In a jam, glutamate is used as a brain fuel...Google it if you don't believe me.

PLP (active form of B6), 50mg BID completely stops his glutamate triggered seizures. Glutamate -> GABA needs an enzyme called GAD which is PLP(B6) dependent. PLP comes in sublingual forms too.

NORMALLY we store about 20 days worth of B6 in our liver...it is that important - MANY functions.

LOW dose DMAE taken in the morning is incredible. He is much less anxious and less depressed. He just started taking it a few days ago and the change was immediate and very apparent.

He also takes 1 lecithin capsule BID.

And I make him ***eggs over easy*** to preserve the incredible nutrients in the yolk (must cook the white otherwise biotin levels plummet).

His CT scan of his abdomen = "moderate hepatic steatosis" = "fatty liver" (non alcoholic).

His brain CT scan indicated "possible intracranial hypertension". One cause of that maybe excess homocysteine thanks to Depakote! (which according to a gov. website depletes B6 and raises homocysteine). Obviously he is off Depakote and we are using nutrient supplements and healthy foods (eggs, etc.) instead.

Deficiencies that can cause a fatty liver are: methionine, choline, serine, and/or biotin. Those are ones I've found so far and ones we are addressing.

A fatty liver = metabolic syndrome = diabetes eventually. It is called NFLD = non alcoholic fatty liver disease. It is a serious problem for many Americans.

MANY *drugs* raise blood glucose levels...you would be surprised. Not a good thing.

Our brains need an amazing amount of glucose ongoing. At NIGHT, when we are sleeping, a liver process called gluconeogenesis kicks in to provide that glucose...provided the liver is functioning properly and is healthy.

L-serine converts to D-serine in the brain via an enzyme called racemase. That enzyme needs PLP (B6).

D-serine is used to treat schizophrenia.

Research the impact of D-serine on glutamate gated NMDA receptors...we RECENTLY found out is a powerful agonist (helper).

For KIDS...Omegabrite (kids doses) may *help*. So may a supplement called "Attentive Child" by Source Naturals. Look closely at what is in it.

BTW...DMAE:

***It is the active component of Centrophenoxine, or Lucidril, a pharmaceutical designed for cognitive health in the elderly.***

DMAE is in a lot of skin formulas to rid skin brown spots that happen as we age (usually combined with Alpha lipoic acid and vitamin C). It is considered an "anti-oxidant".

Do NOT take low dose DMAE if on acetylcholinesterase inhibitors...too much acetylcholine isn't good...need some, the right amount...not too little, not too much.

I personally know a longstanding lyme patient who told me she has NO REM sleep (was tested in a sleep lab).

Do you know the REM-acetylcholine connections?

Ongoing inflammation is bad. It is vital to reduce the inflammation AND hit the pathogen.

Google: inflammation blood brain barrier.

It should come as no surprise that candida is in the temporal lobes in AD and the amyloid beta proteins are NOW considered a *protective mechanism*. Vitamin C impacts amyloid beta...good thing or bad? Combine C with VCO (natural anti-bacterial, anti-viral, anti-fungal)as a doctor is doing to SLOWLY cure her husband's AD.

Maybe more at play though...APOE4 persons are at increased risk for AD due to DDT-> DDE exposure and that pesticide is still in our environment! APOE4/4 persons have less eNOS = endothelial nitric oxide synthase. (One of MANY features of Berberine is that it upregulates eNOS.)

One of many links:
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2010/03/alzheimers-associated-protein-may-be-part-of-the-innate-immune-system/

Healthy gut, healthy mind.

Our "detox" organs and the vessels that deliver nutrients to them need help...esp. the liver and kidneys, IMO.

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