LymeNet Home LymeNet Home Page LymeNet Flash Discussion LymeNet Support Group Database LymeNet Literature Library LymeNet Legal Resources LymeNet Medical & Scientific Abstract Database LymeNet Newsletter Home Page LymeNet Recommended Books LymeNet Tick Pictures Search The LymeNet Site LymeNet Links LymeNet Frequently Asked Questions About The Lyme Disease Network LymeNet Menu

LymeNet on Facebook

LymeNet on Twitter




The Lyme Disease Network receives a commission from Amazon.com for each purchase originating from this site.

When purchasing from Amazon.com, please
click here first.

Thank you.

LymeNet Flash Discussion
Dedicated to the Bachmann Family

LymeNet needs your help:
LymeNet 2020 fund drive


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations.

LymeNet Flash Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Gut flora and probiotics

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Gut flora and probiotics
Dave6002
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9064

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Dave6002     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Now I found that iFlora(powder, 16 strains) is more beneficial. I stopped all medicine and supplements for a week or so and still feel it's the best ever for me.

This agrees with the hypothesis that post-lyme disease, at least for me, is a gut disease.

Just wondering if VLS#3, which has 6 strains, is better. Would like to try, but don't know if a regular dr would prescribe it.

Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
2roads
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4409

Icon 1 posted      Profile for 2roads     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi Dave,

This is somewhat off-topic, but my son was on years of meds for tbds. I have been using probiotics in the past and regularly giving Good Belly Juice for the coop.

But, it doesn't seem to matter with his GI.

He is not on any meds now though.

So, we just started bone broth hoping to doanything for his neuro, but all I read is about the restoration of the gut. Then it hit me that perhaps the probiotics really can't do all that they should because of the damaged gut.

Anyone on meds may have this.

So, in addition to whatever probiotic you choose, I suggest some bone broth on a semi-regular basis.

Be well=

Posts: 2214 | From West Chester, PA | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
desertwind
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25256

Icon 1 posted      Profile for desertwind     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You can get regular vsl#3 over the counter at some pharmacys. It is the vsl#3ds that you need a script for.

Vsl#3 has 112 billion units = $59.99 for 30 day supply of 30 or 60 capsules.

Vsd#3ds has 900 billion = $399.00 for month supply unless your insurance covers. This is for 2 packets /day. This one is powder.

Have you considered Custom probiotics?

Posts: 1671 | From Tick Infested New Jersey | Registered: Apr 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lymetoo
Moderator
Member # 743

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lymetoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The only drawback with VSL#3 is that it is dairy based. You may find that your gut no longer tolerates dairy. If you tolerate dairy then go for the prescription, because you will save a TON of money on it.

I use CP-1 formula from Custom Probiotics because it is dairy free.

http://www.customprobiotics.com/custom-probiotics-adult-formula-cp-1.htm

Also, do consider making and eating your own sauerkraut for your gut health. It's very easy to do and amazingly beneficial.

More on sauerkraut and gut health:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=127668;p=0#000003

Systemic Yeast and its Importance in Remission:
http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/104860#000000

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

Posts: 95256 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dave6002
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9064

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Dave6002     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks,Lymetoo,desertwind and 2roads for the info.You are more knowledgeable than most doctors on Lyme.

2roads, also consider probiotics strains, they are not equal.

My understanding is that they need to fight the lyme bacteria and other bacteria, so they must be strong enough to win the war. Number is a factor, but the most important thing is that their fighting ability. I took other strains in Activa yogurt probiotics,which is marginally helpful.

Still puzzling me that why the iFlora(powder, 16 strains)is the best "medicine" for my 8.5 year Lyme disease.

As I posted previously, Lyme bacteria probably are mainly in the gut, that's why Salt/C has some effects, but it may be too harsh to the gut. Effective probiotics(multiple strains)should be as equally important as other therapeutics if not better.

Dave

Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lymetoo
Moderator
Member # 743

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lymetoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
With Lyme and its many treatments, candida will usually follow (if not PRECEDE) .. so it's very important to keep the gut healthy.

Perhaps many of your "lyme" symptoms are/were from candida.

Copied this from the first link above:

... "I have heard that from many ppl. From what I read that probiotics only make it down your tract so far unlike cultured veggies that actually travel down your digestive tract therefore bringing the good bacteria deep down when probiotic caps wont make it."

-

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

Posts: 95256 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dave6002
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9064

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Dave6002     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Tutu, thanks, your messages are inspiring.

My biggest problem was insomnia for the past 8.5 years and seems the iFlora solved the problem.

Another biggest problem is pains everywhere especially the palms and soles. This problem is improved by the iFlora.

Use acid resistant capsules for enteric probiotics delivery maybe a good idea to make probiotics more efficient.

Does anybody know where to get the acid resistant empty capsules?

Dave

Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dave6002
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9064

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Dave6002     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
PROBIOTICS – Busting the Myths
Randolph S. Porubcan MSc
C.E.O. Master Supplements, Inc.
Myth 1: Yogurt is an effective probiotic.
Myth 2: Low strength probiotic supplements < 5 billion CFU per dose taken over time
are as effective as high dose products >10 billion CFUper dose.
Myth 3: Enteric coatings offer significant protection to probiotics.
Myth 4: The CFU test is the best measure of a probiotic’s strength and effectiveness.
Myth 5: Single strain probiotics are as good as multi-strain products.
Myth 6: Multi-strain probiotics with many strains are better than those with fewer strains.
Myth 7: Strain identity is critical, newer strains work better than old generation strains.
Myth 8: Homeostatic soil organisms (HSOs) are safe probiotics.
Myth 9: Adding fructo-oligosaccharides (FOS) to probiotic capsules is beneficial.
Myth 10: Diet does not play a role in probiotic effectiveness.
Myth 11: You need to take probiotics every day – like a multivitamin.
Myth 12: Probiotics do not require refrigeration.
Myth 13: Probiotics dominate a balanced healthy G.I.tract.
Myth 14: Don’t take probiotics while taking antibiotics.
Myth 15: It’s best to take probiotics with water on an empty stomach.
Myth 16: Digestive enzymes do not stimulate or benefit probiotics.

From http://www.probiotic-myths.com/default.aspx#3

Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lymetoo
Moderator
Member # 743

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lymetoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Wow, that is so awesome! I do know for a fact (& personal experience) that candida can cause insomnia.

Check online or with health food stores on the capsules.

PS .. I'm going to try the iFlora!

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

Posts: 95256 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lymetoo
Moderator
Member # 743

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lymetoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
#1 is a widely believed myth!!

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

Posts: 95256 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dave6002
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9064

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Dave6002     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So probably my problem is candida? For all of the years I was fighting something else? I know you are a big candida fighter. Thanks, Tutu, always beneficial to talk to you. iFlora has two form powder and capsule. I still have to try capsule form. Good luck.

Dave

Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dave6002
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9064

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Dave6002     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
#1 is a widely believed myth!!
That's true, for all of the years I had used Yogurt(Activa)as probiotics source. It's beneficial but not significant.

Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lymetoo
Moderator
Member # 743

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lymetoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well... you could be like most here: They have both.

The problem with the yogurt is the sugar. That is counterproductive. It is also very low count in beneficial bacteria.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

Posts: 95256 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dave6002
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9064

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Dave6002     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I just found that my vision has been improved significantly. So this is the best medicine in so many years.

I do agree with you but I am not a fan for antibiotics now.

My theory for this: probiotics including bacteria, yeasts,other fungi can control the bad guys by crowding or killing in the gut.

By the way I made my own yogurt using one gallon of milk and one Activa yogurt. I'll pay attention to sugar.

Thanks, Tutu, and good night!

Dave

Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MADDOG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 18

Icon 1 posted      Profile for MADDOG     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I have a bottle of kefir. I use it down till there is like an 8th left.

Then i fill it up with 2% milk, shake it up, set it behind my wood burning stove for 36 hours.

Walla new kefir.

MADDOG

Posts: 3840 | From Ohio | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
2roads
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4409

Icon 1 posted      Profile for 2roads     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Tutu, can you let us know how the iflora goes?

Also, what's safest for kids?

I know I need to reincorporate it at some point, but I need to heal the gut first. So for now it's bone broth.

Posts: 2214 | From West Chester, PA | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dave6002
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9064

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Dave6002     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
2roads, iFlora Kids Multi-Probiotic.

One strange thing I put some powder in a cup of milk and after 24hr, I didn't see any sign of growth, not to mention Yogurt formed.

I checked the gradient, it contains Fructo-oligosaccharides are made up of plant sugars linked in chains. They are taken from asparagus, Jerusalem artichokes, and soybeans, or produced in the laboratory. People use these sugars to make medicine.

Fructo-oligosaccharides are used for constipation, traveler's diarrhea, and high cholesterol levels.

Fructo-oligosaccharides are also used as prebiotics. Prebiotics act as food for “good” bacteria in the intestine. Don't confuse prebiotics with probiotics such as lactobacillus, bifidobacteria, and saccharomyces, which are live organisms that are good for health. People sometimes take probiotics by mouth to increase the number in their intestine.

In foods, fructo-oligosaccharides are used as a sweetener.

How does it work?
Fructo-oligosaccharides pass undigested into the colon where they increase bowel mass and promote growth of certain bacteria that are thought to be beneficial.

so I was wondering if iFlora contains live bacteria, the benefits may be from short chain fructooligosaccharides.


It has also been proposed as a supplement for treating yeast infections

[ 03-10-2014, 08:48 PM: Message edited by: Dave6002 ]

Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lymetoo
Moderator
Member # 743

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lymetoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
But Dave .. see Myth #9 above.

For some, the FOS causes stomach distress. So I don't know. Always conflicting opinions when it comes to yeast.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

Posts: 95256 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dave6002
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9064

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Dave6002     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Tutu,

FOS cannot be digested by our body and, I think, by yeast but can be used by probiotics, that's why it is used as a sweetener to replace sugar.
See the dramatic results:
 -
Prebiotic fibre could induce 'profound metabolic changes'
By Annie-Rose Harrison-Dunn, 02-Oct-2013
Prebiotic short-chain fructo-oligosaccharides (scFOS) could modify metabolism through their effect on intestinal microbiota, which could prove helpful for type 2 diabetics, research has claimed.
http://www.nutraingredients.com/Research/Prebiotic-fibre-could-induce-profound-metabolic-changes

Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | LymeNet home page | Privacy Statement

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:

The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey
907 Pebble Creek Court, Pennington, NJ 08534 USA


| Flash Discussion | Support Groups | On-Line Library
Legal Resources | Medical Abstracts | Newsletter | Books
Pictures | Site Search | Links | Help/Questions
About LymeNet | Contact Us

© 1993-2020 The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
Use of the LymeNet Site is subject to Terms and Conditions.