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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » fecal transplants

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Author Topic: fecal transplants
chainsaw joseph
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Anyone done them?
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Catgirl
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No, but I saw this on Dr. Oz (think it was for chrons).

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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jlcd1
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they have a pill form now i think. My cousin did it for prader willi syndrome. It didn't work for him, high doses of turmeric worked better. But it depends on what you need it for. I'm sure it would be good for c-diff
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Robin123
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I heard that some doctor and patients are doing this in Australia, possibly for Parkinson's.
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chainsaw joseph
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thank you.You cant get this done by a doc in the states unless you have C dif. My gut is a wreck fron antibiotics and I have tried everything to fix the flora with little to no improvement. Im ready to try anything and am looking into this and will most likely try it.
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Pinelady
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I used lots of vitamin C and E along with probiotics to keep my bowels good. I would never add organisms in bodies suffering immune suppression and gene sharing stealth. IMO its criminal.

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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droid1226
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There's a facility 10 mins from me that does this but it's extremely expensive. A local paper did a write up on it and it had incredible reviews. They are booked through September, so it must do something.

People have had success doing home treatments (gross) but it's done exactly how you'd think. Same way they do it in the holistic place, except it's much safer there I'm sure.

The paper said MS patients have had the most success.

--------------------
http://www.youtube.com/user/droid1226/videos?view=0&flow=grid

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Marnie
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Better read this (!):

https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/news/2013/10/research-reveals-impact-of-fecal-transplantation-upon-gut-flora-and-digestive-health.aspx

I'd rather try Glycox (Berberine does NOT impact normal flora)

and load up on the "good guys" with high quality probiotics...varying them...Metagenics formulation or Essential Formulas Probiotics for starters.

Find berberine mentioned here:

http://insidestorey.blogspot.com/2013/09/stephen-buhner-against-drug-resistant.html

Glycox dosage and timing - follow same plan as other uses for it indicate (look under table 1):

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2410097/

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CD57
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That's criminal that its extremely expensive! It's literally just...you know what.
Sometimes this country really disgusts me, how everything is about profit.

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CD57
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I also read that it should be fine with a donor that is related to you
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TF
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A little over a year ago, I got C diff from antibiotics given to me by my ENT. (I have been rid of lyme for 9 years, by the way.)

My gastro treated me for about a month with whatever med they give for that. Can't remember now. Anyway, he said that if that didn't work, he would go right to a fecal transplant.

There is a hospital near us that does them. He said it is the only one that does them because there is not yet a protocol for how to do it.

He told me that a patient who was a nurse followed his instructions and did it to herself at home. He said, "I trusted her to be able to do it herself because she was a nurse."

I was going to have my husband donate the stool. He said anyone can donate it as long as they don't have a virus, or other disqualifying illness. They ask the person a few questions to determine that it is OK to donate the stool.

So, anyway, it is pretty easy. You mix the stool with some warm water in a blender that the doctor gives you. Then, use the mixture as an enema and hold it in for so long so that the good flora can get established in your gut.

My gastro said that it works very, very well.

So, since I was cured with the antibiotic, I didn't do the fecal transplant. But, I certainly would have.

I believe that you have to find a good gastro who knows how to get this done for you. Then, it is a breeze.

About 2 years ago, there was a lady I met on LymeNet who lived not that far from me. She had the fecal transplant. She had a friend donate the stool. It worked very well for her.

So, I know there are at least a few hospitals in the Baltimore-Washington area that do this procedure. I believe that as time goes by, a protocol will be developed, and then it could probably be done at any hospital.

The donor is essentially donating intestinal flora, so anyone can do it, even a close relative. There is no question about that.

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CD57
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TF did the lady you met do it to treat Lyme and co or do it to treat c diff from treating lyme and co?
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Lymetoo
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You could also try eating sauerkraut or kefir to restore balance.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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TF
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She got C diff, I believe, from her first lyme doctor who didn't tell her about the lyme diet, probiotics, etc.

So, that is why she needed the fecal transplant.

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randibear
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I'm sorry guys I just don't think I could do this.

--------------------
do not look back when the only course is forward

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MichaelTampa
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quote:
Originally posted by TF:
The donor is essentially donating intestinal flora, so anyone can do it, even a close relative. There is no question about that.

I remember an LLMD mentioned this to me once. But he said it should be a healthy relative. (The way he suggested it sounded like a friend was not really a good way to do it.) I have heard that not everyone has the same ideal flora, so perhaps staying in the family gives a better chance of that being right.
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chainsaw joseph
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thanks for all the input. I shy away from fermented foods because im sure candida maybe be part of the problem. Ive tried it all,the most strict candida diet,the best probiotics,nystatin,diflucan,you name Ive tried it.

My GI tract is such a mess,Im tired of all the fatigue,neurological stuff,insomnis and nightmares.

I certainly remember lyme disease and the hell it was. This is almost as bad but all related to my GI and the food I put in it.

You would think you could figure it out and correct this but I dare to say not many could have tried as long as I have to correct this for years.

Im still doing my homework and there is quite a bit of info on the internet and my doctor even said to go for it.I

m hoping to straighten out a little longer but if I stay in this state of torture I will trying the fecal transplant. I will let ya know.

..................................................
Breaking this up for easier reading for many here - Robin

[ 04-03-2014, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]

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sunman
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They have been doing this for years with animals.
Check this video out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY4QkhwQMRA

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Lymetoo
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chainsaw .. Sauerkraut is the best thing ever for candida.

and YES to a HEALTHY relative.. if you suspect they have candida... forget it!! [Wink]

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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glm1111
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Hopefully there are no other infections in the donated stool, especially parasites and their eggs and like TuTu said, any candida!!

Gael

--------------------
PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW
RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS*

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Marnie
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Become Healthy or Extinct!

http://becomehealthyorextinct.com/candidiasis/

Why The Outbreak Of Candida Albicans

http://www.arltma.com/Articles/CandidaDoc.htm

READ. LEARN. UNDERSTAND.

Candida OVERPRODUCED, *MUTATED*, or MIGRATING to places it should NOT be is an indication of a body out of balance and is not good.

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elara
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Fecal Transplants may turn out to be helpful in many conditions including the secondary effects of Lyme such as CFS and related immune dysregulation based problems.

I'm considering it so I thought I'd share so others can decide if it might be useful for them.

Its currently only allowed in the US for Clostridium difficile infections. So anyone considering it must either go abroad or follow do it yourself guidance.

Since there are many published papers, once you get over the "icky" factor, its possible to use donor selection guidelines to minimize the risk. Here is some introductory information:

One success story for ulcerative colitis.

http://fecaltransplant.org/fecal-transplants-cured-my-ulcerative-colitis/

A YouTube video by the ulcerative colitis sufferer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEMnRC22oOs

His website:

http://fecaltransplant.org/fecal-transplant-cure-ulcerative-colitis-book/

Some introduction papers:

http://www.ccjm.org/content/80/2/101.full.pdf+html

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1205037#t=article

Donor selection is critical to avoid infections. Using a husband/wife or significant other greatly reduces risk since you have already been exposed to any infections. But it still wise to have the person tested.

The donor should be tested for:


Donor feces were screened for parasites Blastocystis hominis and Dientamoeba fragilis), C. difficile, and enteropathogenic bacteria. Blood was screened for antibodies to HIV; human T-cell lymphotropic virus types

1 and 2; hepatitis A, B, and C; cytomegalovirus; Epstein–Barr virus; Treponema pallidum; Strongyloides stercoralis; and Entamoeba histolytica.

One approach to testing is using an online lab like Directlabs

https://www.directlabs.com/Default.aspx

Most of the bacterial, parasites etc.. can be screened using the

GI Effects Microbial Ecology Profile-METAMETRIX KIT

https://www.directlabs.com/imagepage.aspx?id=666&type=testsample

The HIV, Hep A, B and C are also available

https://www.directlabs.com/Default.aspx?&catid=89&language=en-US&tabid=55

You can also have your gut microbiome analyzed by the American Gut project. You and your donor can both have your microbiome analyzed for comparison.

http://humanfoodproject.com/americangut/

It also might be useful to compare donor and recipient GI profiles using the Genova

CDSA 2.0 w/Parasitology-Genova KIT

https://www.directlabs.com/imagepage.aspx?id=111&type=testsample

This is not a recommendation but rather some pointers to information useful in for exploring a fecal transplant.

[ 04-03-2014, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]

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chainsaw joseph
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thank you all for taking the time to post. I will continue my anti yeast protocol for a while long and HOPE.If I don't improve Im going to try the fecal transplant. As for sauerkraut and fermented foods I read more that you shouldn't eat them if you have candida,am I wrong? Thanks again
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Lymetoo
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Sauerkraut is awesome... see here for the difference:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/123991?#000013

See "April 27" post.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Catgirl
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I know this sounds gross, but I am tempted to do this. I am so tired of eating such a restricted diet, as my gut has never been the same since my first 2 weeks of abx. I've tried kimchi, kefir, and nothing. It helps with yeast, but still my diet sucks.

http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/wacky-health-trends-put-test-pt-1

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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lymielauren28
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I am *this close* to doing a home transplant myself. Years of abx have destroyed my gut. I've been following a FB group called Sally Brown that's anything and everything fecal transplant related...lots of good info and lots of people having success with various gut issues.

--------------------
"The only way out is through"

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Catgirl
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Lymielauren, me too (this close). Thank you for posting about the FB group. :)

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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elara
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Does anyone know of any competent US clinics willing to do fecal transplants for non C diff conditions. I've checked a few and they say the FDA restrictions prevent them today.

I've begun by joining the American Gut project to have my gut microbiome 16S microbe analyzed. This is actually a top flight crowd sourced science project to analyze the gut microbes and how its effected by everything from diet, sex, environment, antibiotics, pets etc... You can join for $99 which will show your gut microbiota and how it compares to others.

http://humanfoodproject.com/americangut/

Reading the posts on the site ( lower right) by the team members and the many experiments is quite interesting. You will learn more about your gut microbiome and how it evolves and changes more here than anywhere else based on some amazing experiments and analysis done by the team membres on themselves throughout the world.

Like: Killing bacteria and the rise of IBD (in kids) http://humanfoodproject.com/killing-bacteria-and-the-rise-of-ibd-in-kids/

Going Feral: my one-year journey to acquire the healthiest gut microbiome in the world (you heard me!) http://humanfoodproject.com/going-feral-one-year-journey-acquire-healthiest-gut-microbiome-world-heard/


Dr. Rob Knight from the BioFrontiers Institute, HHMI, and University of Colorado at Boulder discusses several large projects - an amazing scientist. The American Gut Project has its samples 16S analyzed on Rob Knights lab illumina platform.

The talk below is very dense but worth listenning to if you have a scientific interest in microbiome research.

http://www.illumina.com/applications/microbiology/human-microbiome-analysis.ilmn

The Talk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6wJQyvJJ3A

Anyone considering a fecal transplant should join the American gut project and perform the $99 analysis before and after. The American Gut results are compared to and have been found to be consistent with the $173m NIH Human Microbiome Project. http://commonfund.nih.gov/hmp/index

You may wonder what this has to do with Lyme. 2/3 of our immune system is in our gut. This is controled by our gut microbiota. Many chronic illness's appear to be connected to immune dysregulation whether by infection or other disruptions.

That in turn disrupts the gut microbe community. Some if not many of the chronic illness's including chronic Lyme might be helped by alterations in our gut microbiota. This is why so many people are seeing improvements in many chronic illness's from fecal transplants which quickly shift the microbiota by transplanting a healthy persons microbiota with theirs.

Its not a miracle cure but something worth exploring. One of the reasons those of us with Chronic Lyme need to control our diets like our sugar, gluten etc.. intake has to do with how it "feeds" and disrupts our microbiota.

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droid1226
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People do home ones.

How to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEMnRC22oOs

http://thepowerofpoop.com/epatients/fecal-transplant-instructions/

--------------------
http://www.youtube.com/user/droid1226/videos?view=0&flow=grid

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kimmie
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http://cdiffdiscuss.org/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=20

Please look at the c diff support group. Yes there are doctors in the USA who do fecal transplants...more for recurrent c difficle...but they work!

Please note that after transplantation, there is a time of adjustment while the new flora gets established. There can be a transitional period of IBS symptoms until the flora establishes. ALso the protocol calls for a specific diet to help feed the new flora. all this info can be found on the c diff support sight.

Human probiotic therapy by dr Barody in australlia, if you google him Im sure his protocol will come up or go to his website, probiotictherapy.com.au

After transplantation they recommend you refrain from any antimicrobials including high dose vitamin c or this will just kill the newly transplanted flora

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girl
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Chainsaw, Lacto-ferments using a 'starter' to populate the good bacteria in the cabbage for it to ferment is different than when people use vinegar to ferment.
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chainsaw joseph
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Years of antibiotics have destroyed my gut also. I am tormented,truly. The worse my gut is the worse my symptoms are.

I suffer fatigue,numbness ,tingling,wooziness,hard to get the words out,confusion,muscle weakness,insomnia with nightmares to name a few and all related to food and my Gi tract. Ive tried it all Except fermented foods to try to heal the gut.

My gut is so sensitive I can only take a day or two of anything anti-fungal and then I am in a severe herxhiemer and I mean severe.

Doesn't matter how slow I go with meds or diets I just cant seem to make progress. I do get worse if I eat carbs.

Im tired of this tormenting my body and mind,Im close to trying the fecal transplant,just pretty scared cause I cant tolerate any antifungals.

Do you folks with trashed gut have a sensitive gut as I do? Thank you again for all the info.

............................................

Breaking up your post for easier reading for many here - Robin

[ 04-07-2014, 12:02 AM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]

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Lymetoo
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Chainsaw .. Have you looked into a low salicylate diet? or a low histamine diet? That might help.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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chainsaw joseph
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Let me see if I understand correctly,I am looking for a sauerkraut that isn't fermented with vinegar. I wont make one probably so is there a brand I can get at the local grocery store?
Lymetoo I will look into those diets.

When I was getting tested for food allergies and other allergies(scratch test)not one thing swelled up,even the control scratch.

They were amazed that nothing swelled and asked me if I was on a antihistamin. Ive never taken antihistamins.If that means anything.

[ 04-07-2014, 12:03 AM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]

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Robin123
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Yes, Dr Barody is the one in Australia doing the implants - I suppose you could try corresponding to see what you can learn -

If you could break up your posts into a couple lines, it will be easier for some people here to read -

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girl
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chainsaw, get the book Body Ecology Diet from Amazon. It's on sale. It is specifically designed to bring people back from Systemic Candida and it includes fermented foods. The diet starts off with a 3 day vegetable broth to get your pH right and kind of smooth things down before you start. The diet is hard core. It's gluten free, sugar free, and dairy free (in the beginning) and includes fermented foods and drinks.

It's a lot to learn but well worth it when you do. It teaches you food combining and how we shouldn't eat certain things together because it is harder for digestion.

If you buy the cultured vegetables (sauerkraut) just make sure it's RAW and unprocessed. If you get it from the health food store you can find it raw. Good luck!

There is also a 'body ecology diet support group' on face book with tons of good people on the diet willing to help. I am hoping you are off gluten and you can go from there...

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girl
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I would def. try this before any type of fecal implant or surgery. It irks me to no end when I hear about people having surgery for their gut (like removing part of their colons etc.) when they haven't even gone gluten free. So I say try it! Give it a chance!! This diet has given me my life back. I'm not saying that my gut is (or was) as bad as yours because I just don't know but I have had all of the symptoms you mentioned above.
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chainsaw joseph
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Thank you,you guys are the best and lynet sure has helped over the years.
Lymetoo that low histamine diet sounds interesting.I may try it for a while and maybe an antihistamine.I was at my llmd about two weeks ago and she wrote out a script for gaviscron.
Girl,I will look into anything.My diet for months has been low carb vegys,fish,chicken,turkey and beef,egg whites and brazil nuts,pretty much. Im pretty much staying the same but if I add carbs I get worse.It sure seems like candida but not sure if its something else too. My llmd also gave me a round of parsite meds so that's for me to try too.Lord knows I don't want to do a fecal transplant ,who would but its on the list if I don't improve.Im a tired worn out dude after 12 years of lyme anf gut problems,need some improvement at least but don't most of us. God bless,push on

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by chainsaw joseph:

When I was getting tested for food allergies and other allergies(scratch test)not one thing swelled up,even the control scratch.


-
Same with me, but I react to high histamine foods and salicylates.

The Body Ecology Diet is GREAT and has helped me. Right now I'm having other issues and had to stop the sauerkraut (high in histamine). So it's important for you to figure this out.

I think Bubbies has raw sauerkraut.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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