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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » What do Lyme, MTHFR and Mast Cell Activation Disorder have in common?

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Author Topic: What do Lyme, MTHFR and Mast Cell Activation Disorder have in common?
Lymetoo
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http://geneticgenie.org/blog/2013/01/31/mast-cell-activation-disorder-mcad-chronic-illness-and-its-role-in-methylation/

[ 04-17-2014, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: Lymetoo ]

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--Lymetutu--
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Lymetoo
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More:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC96436/

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--Lymetutu--
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springshowers
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Thank you
Great articles and info.
I believe all people with chronic illness have a genetic
mutation issue.
How to deal with that or " treat " is difficult. But people are
Researching and trying to figure it out.
So far to go.
I imagine the future generations will start evaluating and playing with DNA and such prior to conception for health.
Not in my lifetime

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Lymetoo
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I know of several Lyme patients who have all 3 of the above. Everyone needs to be on the look out for it.

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--Lymetutu--
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Razzle
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I suspect I'm one of them, Lymetoo... I know I have both Lyme and methylation issues.

I don't have Mastocytosis, but I do react to an ever increasing number of things with severe allergic type (mast cell driven) reactions.

My personal opinion is that the Lyme/coinfections have tinkered with my immune system so much that it can't possibly hope to respond normally to anything.

My doctor says my immune deficiency is what causes me to react to stuff I shouldn't.

I think the bugs are causing the deficiency, because my bone marrow production of WBC's is normal...

So thanks for posting these links...something else to discuss (again) with my doctor.

--------------------
-Razzle
Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs.

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Marnie
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MTHFR gene defect = difficulty reducing folic acid (=B9) to its useful form - interferes with "remethylation" -> undermethylated - high histamine.

Methionine (from protein) -> homocysteine which has to be lowered via 2 pathways = remethylation and transsulfuration.

If the "remethylation" pathway is disrupted (zinc and B12 also involved!)...

the other pathway has to kick in to lower homocysteine.

Transsulfuration where B6 (active form is called PLP/P5P) + an enzyme called CBS -> taurine (LOWERS CHOLESTEROL!) + GSH (glutathione) + sulfate.

Inflammatory cytokines do a number on B6.

And, it appears undermethylation can -> "estrogen dominance"...not good.

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Marnie
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A report on the study, thought to be the first to show that

stress alters the methylation of DNA

and thus the activity of certain genes,

appeared online in the journal Translational Psychiatry on 14 August.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/249215.php

Emerging research demonstrates that diet, pollution, and ***other environmental triggers*** can

alter both the function and expression of human genes and lead to a

heightened disease

risk.

These environment-gene interactions can cause so-called epigenetic changes in gene expression—patterns of which genes are switched “on” or “off”—that may account for the

rising mortality from chronic diseases in industrialized nations.

http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/30/5/833.abstract

Certainly altered genes can -> disease (cystic fibrosis is one example), but there is an environmental aspect too which looks like it can alter "healthy" gene expression.

Lord knows we've done a LOT of environmental damage with our cars (exhaust), our pesticides, etc.

BTW...There are meds (Rx and OTC) that counter the B9 - folic acid problem. Deplin/Folo Pro.

Or other work-arounds...betaine. Look at the methylation picture.

http://www.lef.org/protocols/heart_circulatory/homocysteine_reduction_01.htm

I can talk you thru it for further clarification if you have problems. Like...GSH = glutathione and BHMT is a zinc dependent enzyme...

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springshowers
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Marnie
Would you expand on
"And, it appears undermethylation can -> "estrogen dominance"...not good."
And relation to breast cancer possibly ? Estrogen receptors

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Lymetoo
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Yes, please. What does -> mean?

Razzle .. I think I have the same problem.

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--Lymetutu--
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Robin123
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The arrow means leads to.

I suggest anyone with methylation detox difficulty consider doing the 23andme saliva spit test and sending those results to geneticgenie for interp, then sending that on to a doctor trained in how to boost defective methylation pathways.

Note - you'll also be sent a lot of emails of relatives you didn't even know existed. I haven't yet checked on any of mine - just so long as they're not orangutans...

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Marnie
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"Methylate

Every woman should know this word. The ability to use certain nutrients, like B vitamins, plays a large role in estrogen metabolism.

***Inability to methylate results in estrogen dominance***

and increased risk for breast cancer.

Methylation capacity can be tested, helping you and your doctor establish a thorough understanding of hormone metabolism, detoxification and nutrient status."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tasneem-bhatia-md/breast-cancer-prevention_b_4027003.html

One process of methylation turns on and off genes, this means it affects your DNA (genetic code).

The ability to methylate helps you process toxins

and hormones.

For example, estrogen… you make it in your body, and you also get it from xenobiotics (chemicals in shampoos, pesticides, herbicides, plastics and more)

if you can’t break down estrogen and get it OUT of your body, you could develop all sorts of disorders.

http://www.dearpharmacist.com/2013/08/08/2394/ GREAT link!!!

Help?

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TX Lyme Mom
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If you are worried about how genetic methylation *defects* (aka: *polymorphisms* because we all have them) can put you are risk for breast cancer, then this is the single best article I've seen yet on the subject of BC in relation to personal genetics.
http://www.mthfrsupport.com/why-are-genetics-important-when-you-are-diagnosed-with-the-boob-bug-aka-cancer/

Remember though that your genetic polymorphisms are not your pre-determined destiny or fate because what matters is whether or not your unique genetic SNPs are being *expressed* or not. And the expression of your unique genetic SNPs IS something that you CAN manage -- via lifestyle choices, such as diet, nutritional supplements, avoidance of environmental toxins, etc. (SNPs = single nucleotide polymorphisms)

I'm still looking for a better article that explains estrogen dominance in relation to the methylation cycle, but I've haven't been able to find that same article again. This reply is a *place holder* for that article so that I can post it more easily later, if and when I finally succeed in locating it.

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Marnie
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I am trying so hard to tell you...


Biofactors. 2013 Nov-Dec;39(6):672-9. doi: 10.1002/biof.1131. Epub 2013 Sep 2.

Antitumor effect of novel berberine derivatives in breast cancer cells.

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MattH
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Will 23andme still give us the type of information we need with their current 99.00 test for MTHFR?

All the Best, MattH

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Lymetoo
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I think so, Matt!

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--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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TX Lyme Mom
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MattH,
Yes, it's a good deal for only $99, but 23&Me changed to the new V-4 chip which doesn't include as many SNPs as their older V-3 chip did. (link below) Nevertheless, it's still a very good value at that price.

https://geneticgenie.org/methylation-analysis/ - (Scroll down to the second topic under the FAQ heading -- or see Quote, below.)

QUOTE:
Yes. However, 23andMe recently changed their sequencing chip (they are now using their V4 chip) and no longer provides information on the following SNPs:
◦MTRR H595Y (rs10380)
◦MTRR R415T (rs2287780)
◦BHMT-04 (rs617219)
◦AHCY-02 (rs819134)
◦CBS N212N (rs2298758)
◦SHMT1 C1420T (rs1979277)

You will still need to run your data through one of the on-line services to interpret it:
Genetic Genie
MTHFR Support
Prometheus

There is a very nominal fee for this service, ranging from about $5 to $20 -- all of which are real bargains, IMO. MTHFR Support and Genetic Genie also provide data on Detoxification SNPs in addition to methylation SNPs, which is a really nice bonus.

If you learn to use SNPedia, you can do it yourself for free, but that is very labor-intensive and very time-consuming. That's why these on-line services are so popular.

[ 04-23-2014, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: TX Lyme Mom ]

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TX Lyme Mom
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quote:
Originally posted by TX Lyme Mom:

I'm still looking for a better article that explains estrogen dominance in relation to the methylation cycle, but I've haven't been able to find that same article again. This reply is a *place holder* for that article so that I can post it more easily later, if and when I finally succeed in locating it.

Here's a rather lengthy and detailed article which discusses estrogen metabolism and the risk of breast cancer in relation to estrogen dominance and methylation polymorphisms.

http://www.heartfixer.com/CHC%20-%20Diagnostic%20Studies%20-%20Estrogen%20Metabolism.htm

I don't know if the highlighted terms "breast cancer" will show up or not. If not, then you can do a computerized search foo those words to make it easier for you to read the article.)

I'm still looking for a simpler explanation, but this will have to suffice for right now.

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TX Lyme Mom
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Whoopee! I finally found the easy-to-understand article that I was looking for about BC in relation to MTHFR polymorphisms. You're gonna' like this one.

http://www.mthfrsupport.com/why-are-genetics-important-when-you-are-diagnosed-with-the-boob-bug-aka-cancer/

I wish I had found this one first so that you might be able to appreciate the other article (posted above) and not be as intimidated by it. But I'm guessing that probably not too many folks bothered to read it. If so, then maybe you might want to go back and look at it again after reading this fun one.

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Lymetoo
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Thank you, TX Lyme Mom!

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--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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springshowers
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Thank you Marnie.

what your saying would estrogen
Tests show abnormalities ?
I'm asking as I'm going through peri menapause
And had testing of hormones done recently.

If there is issue processing Estrogen
Would there be an out of ordinary test result
That we could note ??

Thanks again

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Razzle
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Not necessarily. I know I have trouble processing hormones (genetic SNP tests), yet my estrogen level is always in the normal range...

--------------------
-Razzle
Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs.

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springshowers
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I read

quote:
Estrogen and progesterone work in synchronization with each other as checks and balances to achieve hormonal harmony in both sexes. It is not the absolute deficiency of estrogen or progesterone but rather the relative dominance of estrogen and relative deficiency of progesterone that is the main cause of health problems when they are off balance.

While sex hormones such as estrogen and progesterone decline with age gradually, there is a drastic change in the rate of decline during the perimenopausal and menopausal years for women in these two hormones as mentioned earlier.

From age 35 to 50, there is a 75% reduction in production of progesterone in the body. Estrogen, during the same period, only declines about 35%. By menopause, the total amount of progesterone made is extremely low, while estrogen is still present in the body at about half its pre-menopausal level.

With the gradual drop in estrogen but severe drop in progesterone, there is insufficient progesterone to counteract the amount of estrogen in our body. This state is called estrogen dominance. Many women in their mid-thirties, most women during peri-menopause (mid-forties), and essentially all women during menopause (age 50 and beyond) are overloaded with estrogen and at the same time suffering from progesterone deficiency because of the severe drop in physiological production during this period. The end result - excessive estrogen relative to progesterone, a condition we call estrogen dominance.


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springshowers
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Edited post.

From what your saying would estrogen
Tests show abnormalities ?
Possibly we need to look at ratio of estrogen to progesterone
Per the article I read that says that is how to know if we are estrogen dominant and gives a ratio we should ideally be at ..

I'm asking as I'm going through peri menapause
And had testing of hormones done recently.

If there is issue processing Estrogen
Would there be an out of ordinary test result
That we could note? Or just look at ratios ?


Thanks again

Thinks R that was fast. Came to edit my question
A little

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Lymetoo
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Droid... Please see this:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=033724;p=0

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--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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bla
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HMMM... Mast Cells, huh? Interesting. I wonder if this is strongly related to Morgellons syndrome in Lyme Disease. I bet so. I believe the Lyme bacteria invade skin cells and trigger abnormal activity within those cells, as with Morgellons. It all comes together. Morg. has shown researchers that it triggers abnormal/excessive growth of skin keratin and collagen. Yes, this is all very interesting, indeedy. Thanks for posting this info.

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bla

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Lymetoo
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Glad to help... the biggest issue with mast cells is the over-production or over-release of histamine.

Some people have TOO MANY mast cells and some have a normal amount but too many of them are stimulated to release histamine.

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--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Lymetoo
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Marnie will like this one....

http://gotmag.org/mg-deficiency-affects-mthfr-really/

How magnesium affects MTHFR

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--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Lymetoo
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Excellent info here on MTHFR and mast cells....

http://mthfrliving.com/health-conditions/mast-cell-activation-disorder-histamine-intolerance/

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--Lymetutu--
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Lymetoo
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Mast cells and MCS ..

http://www.evilmastcells.com/MCAD-Symptoms.html

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--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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