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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » CDSA (stool) results

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Author Topic: CDSA (stool) results
terv
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I received my Genova CDSA results. Interesting test despite the grossness. Anyway, I am hoping for input on two areas.

The first area is Beneficial bacteria. My results were as follows:
Lactobacillus species : No Growth
Bifobacterium: +2 (which they say is too low)

My additional bacteria results are:
alpha haemolytic streptococcus : +4
gamma haemolytic streptococcus :+4
Klebsiella pneumoniaL: +4
Proteeus mirabaillis: +4

yeast +1 which they said was an acceptable quantity but i still may have overgrowth

Would fermented vegetables solve all this? Obviously my good amounts of rotating probiotics dont seem to be taking growth.

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surprise
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IMO, you need to kill the strep and klebsiella in your gut- they are really high.

What does the Dr. who signed the test say?

I'd add fermented veggies yes, but you have some serious bacteria overgrowth- sorry, but great you found out.

I need to do this test, too (my daughter has had them, that's why I'm familiar)

But I'm finally getting my gallbladder out next week, and I'm thrilled!

--------------------
Lyme positive PCR blood, and
positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011.
low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012.
Update 7/16- After extensive treatments,
doing okay!

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GretaM
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I agree with surprise.

In immune compromised people, the other bacteriae you tested very high on can be pathogenic. I would try to 'knock' those ones out if you can...

What are you taking probiotic brand/count wise currently?

Fermented veggies could help, yes indeed, so could kefir, which has several strains of beneficial bugs.

So could the brand/type of probiotic.

My doc is a big fan of HMF Forte because it has studies showing the bacteria adhere to the small intestines and repopulate there. When I started taking it, I had to take half of what I was taking in other brands because it is so strong.

Also something to consider are prebiotics. Basically fiber that helps build a good environment for the probiotics to stick to.

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Judie
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With Klebsiella you don't want to take a probiotic with FOS.

I don't recommend taking Cipro either (there's now a class action lawsuit. Fluoroquinolones left a lot of people crippled with peripheral neuropathy and I'm one dealing with the effects of that now).

http://www.food-allergy.org/story.html

"She asked them how I could still have large amounts of the unfriendly bacteria Klebsiella in every CDSA after having taken five months of botanical medicines that their testing showed it was sensitive to and a course of Cipro,™ to which it was also sensitive on testing. They asked her if I were taking FOS. (fructooligosaccharides, a supplement discussed on pages 20 and 250 of The Ultimate Food Allergy Cookbook and Survival Guide). When she replied, “Yes,” they told her to have me stop taking it because it supports the growth of Klebsiella."

I've had similar results where I've had zero good bacteria and tons of infections.

HMF products are what my ND recommended.

Some HMF products have FOS, but there's one they make that doesn't have FOS.

My body was too weak at the time to take any killing agents, so we chose to flood my body with probiotics.

All my supposed "food allergies" cleared up after taking the probiotics too. Good luck!

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terv
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What is FOS?
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Judie
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FOS is added to a lot of probiotics to help the probiotics grow, but unfortunately some infections (like Klebsiella) also love it and it helps them grow too.

Just be careful with FOS until you have the Klebsiella under control.

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Lymetoo
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FOS .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructooligosaccharide

What is HMF?

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Judie
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HMF is a product name by the brand Genestra for their probiotics. A lot of NDs use HMF Replete to repopulate the gut after antibiotics.

It's dairy free too.

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Lymetoo
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Thanks

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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GretaM
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Judie is right about the FOS! Thanks for inputing Judie about Kleibsella.

HMF Forte has the FOS, but another one Genestra makes is FOS free.

When I was having stomach problems I was trying to find probiotics that were FOS free...it is tough.

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terv
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Wow so much info to digest. My LLMD ordered the test because I requested it. He really doesnt know anything about it but somehow his office was a "provider" for Genova. When I asked for a search the only doctors that came up were ones that didnt take insurance. Since I was already going to one of those I asked them to order it.

As far as I know he hasn't reviewed them but I was able to get a copy when I was in there for my "23andme" appt.

I took the results to a NP who works in a LLMD's office who does take insurance but no new patients. NP doesn't do anything with lyme but at least I wont get grief about it.

NP had just returned yesterday from some conference on the gut and knew how to read the report. A lot of info that was over my head but she promised to write it up and come up with a treatment plan.

The report contained two pages - one for the Klebsiella and the other for Proteeus mirabaillis. On each page there were two graphs with one showing the prescriptive agents effective for the bacteria and another showing natural agents effective against the bacteria.

If I had to choose one natural agent for both it looks like Uva Ursi would be it.

Another point mentioned is that there is some good biofilm thing going on in our digestive tract. So when we go after lyme related biofilm we are losing the good biofilm thus wreaking more havoc on our gut.

I am lacking some pancreatic enzyme.

So much info from a poop test. Should have bit the bullet earlier...

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by terv:

Another point mentioned is that there is some good biofilm thing going on in our digestive tract. So when we go after lyme related biofilm we are losing the good biofilm thus wreaking more havoc on our gut.

-
I think that is what happens with MMS.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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terv
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Do you have to keep repeating these stool tests to see if the bad bacteria are gone?

In Wikipedia it says that Klebsiella is lactose fermenting. What does that mean? That I can only have lactose free dairy products including yogurt?

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Ellen101
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With the kleibsella it is important to avoid all starches as they will feed it.
Do you know which test specifically this was that was done?Ive had stool testing done with Genova but this one seems different.

As far as probiotics I was told to avoid those with inulin and FOS.

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terv
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When I decided to get this done, I tried using Metametrix. When I went to the site it diverted me to Genova's. It appears that Genova acquired Metametrix. So it may not be the same test.

When trying to find out about the acquisition, it appeared someone was not happy with it:

http://chartingdoctorterritory.wordpress.com/2013/10/25/why-genova-diagnostics-is-now-on-my-st-list/

He is so right about customer service.

BTW I had the CDSA/P test done. While my LLMD was on the list of doctor's, he doesnt know anything about their testing. I wish I had been able to find a practitioner who was on my insurance plan(like the one I have now) to work with me. I got lucky with my test choice - she said I didnt need another.

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surprise
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Right, to get the DNA portion which shows what antibiotics and herbs will work to kill the indicated pathegons (bacteria and fungi) is huge.

Since you have that part, understanding the test and how to treat should be fairly simple. Also, the website has sample tests w/ info. and the test itself usually had a summary.

And then there is our good friend Google.

--------------------
Lyme positive PCR blood, and
positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011.
low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012.
Update 7/16- After extensive treatments,
doing okay!

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surprise
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There are some excellent tests from Genova. My daughter had a ION test some months back, our insurance covered a good portion, it was extremely informative:

https://www.gdx.net/product/ion-profile-nutrititional-test-blood

--------------------
Lyme positive PCR blood, and
positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011.
low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012.
Update 7/16- After extensive treatments,
doing okay!

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Judie
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If the gut issues clear up, I don't see why you'd need another test after treatment.

"I wish I had been able to find a practitioner who was on my insurance plan"

Here are some ideas:

You might want to set up a consult with an ND who knows how to read the test. Some aren't crazy expensive since they aren't Lyme doctors (you don't need a Lyme doc to help with the test).

http://www.naturopathic.org/

Also, contact the lab directly to see if they'll give you an information/interpretation consult of your test with a lab tech (customer service over there is apparently clueless).

Some labs will do this if you ask. I had to do this for my OAT test (instead of stool, it's urine analysis).

I set up a consult last year with The Great Plains Lab (it was free).

The practitioner I had at the time was clueless, gave me misinformation and sold me stuff I didn't need. She put me on a diet that was also incorrect.

She was reading me information on the test, but something seemed "off" at the appointment, so that's why I called the lab for interpretation and to confirm her findings. I had no idea at the time that you could actually be directed to people at the lab who know the tests better than some practitioners/doctors.

That's why you NEED to have these tests interpreted correctly. There's nothing wrong with a 2nd opinion if you don't feel confident with the NP.

When I initially had a CDSA test, the doctor I worked with was an expert. She knew my body was too weak for some the remedies and we worked slowly to build myself up.

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