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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » am I herxing from a massage?

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Author Topic: am I herxing from a massage?
jennyfromtheblock
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holy heck! I had a massage yesterday, from a therapist in my chiropractors office. It was amazing, very light. She did oil cupping? I have no idea. I felt great.

Then it hit, all afternoon, and all day today. I am herxing worse than I have in a while. Can't move off the couch again. Symptoms bad

anythoughts>

--------------------
celiac dx 2012
pancreatic neuroendocrine tumor dx 2012
lyme dx 2/14
poss igm wb, neg igg wb - Igenex/CDC

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Keebler
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No. A herxheimer reaction is directly from an antispirochetal agent for borrelia.

However, it is very common to feel worse after a massage for various reasons, mostly due to the liver & kidneys & lymph system having to do more work to metabolize all the fluid that was moved about & adrenals being pushed.

Drinking extra water the day of a massage and for 24 hours after, extra rest, going straight home or to a peaceful park sort of thing.

Cupping (while it may have some later benefits for you, or not) can cause a lot of stress to the adrenal system - even just BEING there, going there, getting home can, too.

Water. Rest. Lymph, liver & adrenal support usually help - in advance and afterward.

You should feel back to your normal in a couple days but take this time to really nourish and nurture your body so that the shift in your body tissues can "reorganize" in a good way.

Do some gentle movements so that circulation can be enhanced, continuing the work of the massage.
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Keebler
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As herxheimer is not the right term for so many times when we feel awful . . .

it may be good to come up with other names when you are "clobbered" that, while maybe not clinical names, will be language to serve your needs of expression. Some that may work:

payback (as in body stress load overloaded)

clobbered

crispy around the edges

some use "healing crisis" but I abhor that term. Very often, there is not much healing to such events and we can - sometimes if not often - control the outcome with changes in our support methods or habits around certain appointments.

These experiences are better to be controlled so they are not too intense. The learning curve on that, and the surprise nature of some "payback" "events" can be tricky, though.
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Keebler
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You write: "She did oil cupping? I have no idea." (end quote)

You seem to wonder if she did "cupping" - if she did, you would know it. Small glass cups on the skin after a heat source in introduced to create a vacuum in the cup, circle marks on skin afterward that would be much more evident a day later. Not to worry about a mark, just important to know about it and nurture yourself.

I could not tolerate cupping. My adrenals were just fried to the max from that experience.

Light massage may or may not have been a lymph treatment. But even a light lymph treatment can certain result in a liver / kidney overload so you should have been instructed prior about how to manage that.

Now, it may be that she used a "cupping" form of her hand for a massage technique and you did not have what is known as "cupping" at all. Language can be fluid.
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Keebler
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http://www.acupuncturetoday.com/abc/cupping.php

CUPPING, An Introduction - From Acupuncture Today

Scroll down to see the photo of the glass cup / globe that is heated and then placed on the body. Also see:

How many types of cupping are there?
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Keebler
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http://www.ivyroses.com/Define/Cupping

CUPPING is a percussion (also known as tapotement) movement.

In the cupping movement, the whole of the palmer aspect of the hand is shaped into a "cup" configuration by slightly flexing the fingers and closing the hand into the form of a "cup" by adducting the thumb to meet the index finger.

The hand is loosely held in this form and used to softly strike the client's body via a loose rythmic action of the wrist.

The centre of the palm of the hand does not make contact with the client and the hollow shape formed by the hand may give rise to the distinctive sound of this massage action.

The speed of the cupping action may be varied to suit the client and the area that is being worked.

Variation of the speed of the cupping action determines the depth of the effect on the skin and its underlying structures.

This is an extremely stimulating movement that is one of the move difficult techniques for trainee therapists to master.

It has also become a massage technique in its own right. See, for example: Traditional Chinese Medicine Cupping Therapy: A Practical Guide
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jennyfromtheblock
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she did use cupping on my back. it was pretty cool, and definitely the first time I had experienced it.

however, yes, clobbered is the term to describe how I feel....

My adrenals are a mess at this point anyways. So this is starting to make sense.

I haven't been this bad in a while

--------------------
celiac dx 2012
pancreatic neuroendocrine tumor dx 2012
lyme dx 2/14
poss igm wb, neg igg wb - Igenex/CDC

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Keebler
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Is the massage therapist lyme literate enough to understand what happens to the body with lyme / TBD?

If not, it may be best to find one who is.
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jennyfromtheblock
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she definitely used either plastic or glass "cups" and glided them across my back. I have read there are different types of cupping.

I told her I had chronic lyme and that I wanted a light massage, for the purpose of relaxation and detoxification.

She said the cupping would be good for the detox... be careful what I wish for I guess

--------------------
celiac dx 2012
pancreatic neuroendocrine tumor dx 2012
lyme dx 2/14
poss igm wb, neg igg wb - Igenex/CDC

Posts: 85 | From south shore | Registered: May 2014  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
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If she is not LL (to the degree a massage therapist who works with a lyme / TBD patient should be) she would have no idea that this could hit you way harder.

She may be understanding in nature but not have the education required as to the specifics for YOUR body.

Be sure to let her know, though. She will want to learn from this if you continue working with her so as to better gauge techniques chosen.

And, you can better expect some down time for any treatment (it still happens, just plan on it) and have support methods in place.

The learning curve can have many bumps in the graph, so to speak - for all of us.
-

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jennyfromtheblock
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I don't think she is lyme literate, though she has quite a few patients with lyme. She herself had it twice, but had the ring, and treated both times without any long term effects.

So we talked a lot about lyme.

I have 2 other sessions with her. So I will definitely talk to her about doing something a little less intense for my body.

I was hoping this would be something helpful and nice....now that you can touch me without me being in agony...well, maybe not today.

I probably should have expected it. I saw my D.O. last week and she told me I'd be wiped for the next day or two...she was right...and that's a lot less touch....

Thanks!

--------------------
celiac dx 2012
pancreatic neuroendocrine tumor dx 2012
lyme dx 2/14
poss igm wb, neg igg wb - Igenex/CDC

Posts: 85 | From south shore | Registered: May 2014  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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