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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Daily Bowel Movements Necessary?

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Author Topic: Daily Bowel Movements Necessary?
droid1226
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In our support group of about 10-15 people about half are doing more than 3 enemas a day. The other half seem to not be able to go more than a couple times a week. Basically, everyone is constipated except for 3 or so people are regular or have diarrhea.

So this goes back to the very first lyme dr I saw who wasn't very good but she promised me a few things. One was that if I was not having daily BM's that I'd never get better.

Coffee enemas have always been necessary for me and very beneficial. Idk if this is because of MTHFR mutation or what.

So I think that whether you are on antibiotics or just supplements, if you aren't getting them out of your body it seems to just recirculate.

I know this is basic detox101 but I just thought it was a very odd coincidence that almost everyone in our group is really sick & really constipated. Seems to be a major link.

Could be vagal nerve issues, could be something not firing in the brain, could be enzyme problems in the stomach. Idk.

Something is stopping motility.

There's an absolute difference in how I feel when I'm going everyday to when I'm going every few days.

I guess I just want to remind people that when you put something in your mouth whether it's food or pills, it cannot just ferment in your stomach because you'll get sick. Lyme or not.

I found castor oil to be my thing that makes me regular.

Wondering if anyone else has any input on this. Since it's not something that's addressed in Dr. H's book or many of the top LLMD's protocol.

--------------------
http://www.youtube.com/user/droid1226/videos?view=0&flow=grid

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Keebler
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IMO, 3 ememas a day are way - way - too much. The bowels may loose their ability to even muster any strength at all to regain normal action.

other than for short time frames, even one a day is too much - IMO. Coffee enemas can be a help there, but in moderation.

Lyme can affect the gut in so many ways but we must work from the inside out - to get our bowels to move on their own -- where that is possible.

There are many ways to approach this.

For one thing, anything that damages our neurological system as lyme does, will also damage the gut. The gut is tied to the nervous system in various ways.

Porphyria is also anther reason that the bowels may have trouble moving. Many with lyme can have a sort of secondary porphyria. Very specific liver support is needed.

Some people many not be eating enough or enough of the right foods. Those doing 3 enemas a day may never see bowel function return if it's not given a chance to work on its own from the inside out.
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Keebler
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Find Sherr's article: Bell's Palsy of the Gut
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Keebler
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See the porphyria links here:

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http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=030792;p=0

LIVER & KIDNEY SUPPORT & and several HERXHEIMER support links, too.


http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=034408;p=0

RHUBARB - for colon support


http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=123746;p=0

Topic: MAGNESIUM - Informational Links set
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Keebler
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http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Fermentation_in_the_gut_and_CFS

Dr. Myhill (and excellent resource, just excellent)

Fermentation in the gut and CFS. Porphyia / P-450 pathway discussed here, too. Lots of great information.
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Keebler
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Very good. A colon massage would help the liver, too. Just learn from someone who is certified so they know anatomy. Two good instructors here:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=olRpzEF_4eQ

Colon massage with a PT - 1 min. video

Then watch:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBdWbYakqGo

Self-Administered Colonic Massage

Jini Patel Thompson - six-minute video


And at the website, find in your area an UPLEDGER INSTITUTE trained physical therapist who has completed their VISCERAL MANIPULATION technique program.
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Keebler
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If your doctor is no more help other than telling you that you must have daily bowel movements but not delving into WHY you are having the specific difficulties and ways to work from the inside out, I'd say it's time for a better doctor. A much better doctor.

Most (not all, perphaps, though) - most LL NDs should be familiar with the reasons, aspects and solutions as related to lyme and within an individual's makeup, diagnoses.

SEVEN FORESTS RHUBARB 17 has been the BEST for me. It's in the Rhubarb thread above.

If castor oil (from a clean, safe source & better in a glass bottle rather than plastic) works for you, there's no problem with that. Keep in the fridge during this summer heat.

Better from top to bottom, inside to out, the way nature intended, even if some help from this inside is needed just be sure it does not deplete but rather nourishes & enhances.
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droid1226
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I've definitely moved on LLMD's from that one. I'm on my 4th one. I won't get into who I've seen because there seems to be some sensitivities when someone mentions they've seen a well regarded lyme dr with no results. I was saying that my very first local LLMD said that & I absolutely believe so that in that sense, she was right IMO

I read that article about bell's palsy of the gut which seems to be what mainstream med calls gastroparesis. Funny they mention the hypothalamic centers because I've felt I've always had issues with that that area of my brain considering I've had so many issues with low body temp, exaggerated POTS(50bpm) difference on the table test, & many other autonomic nervous system issues.

Obviously 3 or more enemas a day is too much. But these are desperate people who spend their days doing enemas so they can have normal nights to take care of kids & do necessary things. Otherwise they're bedridden. So I understand why they do it.

I watched those vids. Seems like I might have a structural problem. One girl mentioned length of torso relating to colon issues. That's definitely an issue for me.

I've exhausted antibiotic treatment for yrs & have decided that I'm finished with the lyme & coinfection diagnosis. So this is the next logical step considering I've always had gut issues & since I still must eat unfortunately, it needs to come out at some point.

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http://www.youtube.com/user/droid1226/videos?view=0&flow=grid

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Keebler
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Belly massage could be a huge help, in addition to other support measures. Your insurance may even cover it. See the Upledger site, visceral.

[Re: triple enema] Yeah, I understand why they do what they have on hand that helps for the immediate time constraints, too. I just get irritated that people can't get the full measure of medical attention that they deserve, including education in all the possible causes / solutions.

I don't think this is something a pill can solve, either, but a multi-faceted approach that will differ from person to person.

Still, belly massage can be a very important element. I hope you can find someone trained in that technique or even try one of the safe self massage methods. There are likely some good, safe & gentle yoga movements that could help, too.

Acupuncture, too, perhaps - &/ or acupressure.
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Razzle
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Here's the link for the Bell's Palsy of the Gut article:

http://www.thehumansideoflyme.net/viewarticle.php?aid=62

Some have found parasites to be the cause of their chronic constipation.

I found what helped immensely for me was a homeopathic remedy mentioned in Peter Alex's "The Homeopathic Treatment of Lyme Disease" - Aurum Arsenicum. I had horrendous, obstinate constipation until I took this homeopathic remedy...and have not had trouble ever since.

Colon hydrotherapy (colonics, not the do-it-yourself-at-home type) can actually improve peristalsis, especially when the practitioner is experienced and trained in abdominal massage techniques and understands chronic constipation.

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-Razzle
Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs.

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Lymetoo
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I agree that 3 enemas a day is overkill... are you doing coffee enemas?

For the past ten years (at least), I have had symptoms of low thyroid. My tests always came back fine. Well, FINALLY my Dr decided to TREAT the "low normal" thyroid test.

My BM's are now much more frequent and much more normal. Keep in mind that MOST DOCTORS will NOT treat a "normal" thyroid test.

Hence, MANY are in the same boat with no peristalsis and no help.

Also, most people do NOT take enough magnesium. Ground chia seeds also help. Just mix in a glass of water and chug it down.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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terv
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I am amazed that someone could do 3 enemas in one day. My intestines don't move the stool down fast enough for that. I can only get anything out with an enema about every 3 days.

I have been battling this unsuccessfully. I am at a functional doctor who did the geneva test and I of course have bad bacteria in my gut. No real surprise there. She is treating me holistically for it.

Before that she had me on some other holistic stuff and was totally surprised when it didn't work.

At my last appt she suggested acupuncture. So that is where I am off to next.

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shoeless joe
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Ive battled GI tract problems,yeast,dysbiosis,constipation for years.

Seems ALOT of lymies have screwed up guts from atbx.
Ive found I need to have BMs regularly,at least every other day or all my symptoms get worse.

Ive used enemas many many times in desperate situations but Ive also noticed I don't do well for a day or two after emamas.

Its just my opinion but I think enemas probably don't help your flora either.
I find using magnesium better than enemas.

I recently had an upper GI barium test,the barium was suppose to pass within an hour.
It took over three hours for it to pass though me.
All of this I attribute to atbx.

Its pretty clear a lot of us are having a lot of difficulties with our gut.
Ive even resorted to fecal transplants to try and restore my flora.

I have taken magnesium supplements the last few days,in fact a little to much because I have had watery stools but wouldn't you know it my symptoms have let up .

Constipation is a huge part of my symptoms and trust me I have severe symptoms from this.

** edited for easier reading: Joe, please put more space between sentences so everyone can read it. Thanks so much!**

[ 06-07-2015, 08:13 PM: Message edited by: Lymetoo ]

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droid1226
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No luck on the fecal transplants?

I do one coffee enema every couple of days. Sometimes once a day. I've never been able to go my whole life so I wouldn't know if the the enemas have screwed up my motility.

Idk if the people in our group are doing 3 coffee enemas or regular enemas. It started with one person doing a few a day, then more people started to do it & they became functional again for the first time in yrs but the problem is that it occupies someone's entire day. Apparently the tradeoff is worth it to them.

Even for me, multiple TBS of castor oil hardly makes anything go. I take mag, vit c, etc...I've tried every laxative on the market, every stool softener, massaging....It's almost like something is broken because certain positions make my stomach rumble but it's always different.

I can't say lyme is making me sick when I'm not going to the bathroom. Whenever I'm regular, I'm a lot better. I know I'm positive for lyme & coinfections but I really feel like I've been chasing the wrong thing here.

There has to be something that helps.

Lymetoo, I will try to retest for thyroid. I've been diagnosed with hypothyroid but I've treated it for a couple yrs with no results.

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http://www.youtube.com/user/droid1226/videos?view=0&flow=grid

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surprise
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For yourself to drink 8 full glasses of room tempature water w/ fresh squeezed lemon in it every day.

Count, make sure it happens. Water only w/ lemon. 1/2 your body weight in ounces, or full big 8 cups.

This is my latest. Especially first thing in a.m. before your coffee.

--------------------
Lyme positive PCR blood, and
positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011.
low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012.
Update 7/16- After extensive treatments,
doing okay!

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Kaibyrd
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Magnesium always keeps me going. I also take a good bit of probiotics and naturally fermented foods.

--------------------
KB

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terv
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Has anyone seen this site

https://www.gutsense.org/index.html

I have bought the book, Fiber Menace.

I can definitely say that fiber makes me so bloated. I had gum graft surgery and lived on protein drinks and eggs. No fiber. This is because of stitches that were in my mouth for 3 weeks. My stomach was as flat as it has ever been. Did'nt relieve constipation though but love not being bloated.

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shoeless joe
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Ive only done three fecal transplants so far and they were spread out over a couple of weeks

From what I gather to get the flora to get established you need to do a minimum of ten days in a row.

I will be trying in the near future,as soon as I get on a good stretch.

I was nervous doing them but experienced no side effects at all and possible a little improvement for a couple of days.

edited for easier reading by joe,hehehehe.

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Keebler
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http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=035132;p=0

SQUATTY POTTY - why it matters
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Maia_Azure
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where can you get fecal transplants done? I was under the impression that they are not FDA approved yet?

--------------------
Sick since 2000
Bulls eye 2005
Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by shoeless joe:


edited for easier reading by joe,hehehehe.

-

lol .. Thanks, Joe!

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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shoeless joe
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Fecal transplants are only approved for c diff I believe.

Look up the power of poop, there are some good videos too,well.....informative anyways.

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TF
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Fecal transplants have been approved for use in the U.S. for 5 or more years for C diff. But, my gastro told me that not all hospitals do them.

You have to find one that does them. He says that until the hospital makes up a protocol for doing them, they won't do them.

My gastro also told me that a patient of his who had C diff was a nurse, so he let her give herself the fecal transplant at home since he trusted that she could follow the directions and do it properly.

To be a fecal donor (I was going to use my hubby), you have to answer some screening questions to rule out people who have viruses, etc.

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Pebbles
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Joe, I'm just curious. Are you having these done or are you doing them yourself??
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shoeless joe
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Out of desperation,doing them myself.

Probiotics make me herx to hard.

My donor is my girl of 30 years,not screened but I am willing to take the chance.

It seems very safe if done right,there aren't many cases gone wrong.
in fact hardly any.

The deal seems to be you have to do these for a while to get the flora to re-establish. C-diff only takes once or twice but not other conditions.

I plan on trying a lengthy try soon.

Read on it,it has had amazing effects.

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Catgirl
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Droid, parasites hate castor oil.

I think the reason why most lyme patients have constipation issues is primarily due to parasites. I used to be constipated but not anymore. Now I go anywhere from 1 to 3x a day with or without coffee enemas.

IMO, coffee enemas are the greatest gift for lyme patients. They detox the liver like nothing else, period. Docs worry about patients doing them too often because they are concerned that patients won't be able to have a normal BM without them, and/or develop absorption issues. That has not been my experience.

If people don't have bowel movements then their bodies just reabsorb the toxins in their colons, which is why it is so crucial to have BMs daily. Coffee enemas go a step further than other enemas in that they clean the liver, not just the colon. The difference is night and day. I feel wonderful after my coffee enemas. Nothing else has ever come close.

I also think many people don't actually know what specific gene mutations they have preventing them from detoxing properly, which could be why they spin their wheels treating lyme and company.

If they can't detox, then it's like having a rubber band on the liver. The toxins simply won't be able to exit, and the body will just re absorb them. So this is where coffee enemas are so beneficial.

I have zero problems doing 3 coffee enemas a day, or even one. I can skip doing a coffee enema the next day and still have a bowel movement. But I think this is due to me treating parasites. I'm sure they obstruct the colon.

I feel so much better when I do coffee enemas. I am instantly a happier person, not from passing the movement, but from cleaning my liver. It somehow clears toxins from my brain, body, blood. It's the greatest gift.

Aside from coffee enemas, I've found drinking two full glasses of water every morning helps move things.

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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Pebbles
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I have read about the benefits of using them joe...I would just be afraid to do them myself. best of luck to you. I hope they work!!
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