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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Lyme Carditis ?

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Author Topic: Lyme Carditis ?
SacredHeart
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How do you know? What symptoms should a cardiologist be looking for?

What tests should be run?

--------------------
Lyme flare June, July, August of 2013. Diagnosed September 2014 Lyme, Bartonella, Mycoplasma, Mono

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Keebler
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Do you have a LLMD? If so, they can best guide you as to if you'd need a cardiologist or not. If so, they would know the best one in your area for someone with your specifics.

Carditis / INFLAMMATION is very common to lyme and I'm not sure that a cardiologist would have the best answers for someone with lyme about this matter.

It can be such a waste of time, money, energy and our very soul strength to go to any doctor unless recommended by one's LLMD, one known to be properly lyme & TBD aware, at the very least.

If you do not have a LLMD, talk with those in all the lyme support groups around you and ask for their advice regarding any heart specialists who may be lyme aware.

[other than a LLMD] . . . Do not - never, ever - expect any specialist, even if lyme aware, to actually treat lyme. They will not, cannot and usually would not even know how.

The only good would be to rule out or diagnosis some kind of condition and give advice on such structural or mechanical issues.

If you have certain symptoms, there are ways to manage symptoms. Most importantly, though, treat lyme and other infections head on, assertively with good solid support.

HAWTHORN & MAGNESIUM are the top two heart helpers.

A LL naturopathic doctor &/or acupuncturist would be best to consult for their expertise with herbal medicine / acupuncture.

They have their own set of diagnostics and treatments.
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Keebler
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http://drsircus.com/medicine/magnesium/magnesium-the-ultimate-heart-medicine

Magnesium – the Ultimate Heart Medicine


http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=123746;p=0

Topic: MAGNESIUM - Informational Links
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Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
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A Gluten-Free diet can be very helpful in reducing inflammation as can one that is dairy free and free of all processed foods / additives.

Go for ONLY SEA SALT and not commercial table salt. Avoid MSG and even sea weed (as that has a high natural glutamate / salt content. The glutamate part can cause heart issues, too.

http://www.chinesemedicineliving.com/blog/medicine/organs/the-heart/

THE HEART IN CHINESE MEDICINE

- by Emma Suttie, D.Ac. (Doctor of Acupuncture)

Heart nourishing foods detailed, etc. Specific food is absolutely key to helping the heart.


http://www.anniesremedy.com/chart_remedy_heart.php

[Article begins half-way down the page]

HERBS FOR THE HEART - by Annie's Remedy
Click onto each herb name to see more detail about it. As information to discuss with a ND or L.Ac.

http://www.anniesremedy.com/herb_detail156.php

Hawthorn - Crataegus monogyna


From The One Earth Herbal Sourcebook:

http://oneearthherbs.squarespace.com/important-herbs/hawthorn-crataegus-pinnatifida.html

Hawthorn - Crataegus

http://oneearthherbs.squarespace.com/display/Search?searchQuery=heart&moduleId=1405778

Search: Heart

Also search this book / site for "Turmeric" as help to reduce inflammation. Then search "inflammation"


http://oneearthherbs.squarespace.com/important-herbs/cocoa-bean-theobroma-cacao-.html

COCOA BEAN
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Keebler
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Oh, be sure you to avoid statins. If you are taking statins, that's another topic all together.

Some other kinds of Rx can be very hard on the heart, too. For instance:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/02/13/ssri-antidepressants.aspx

Confirmed: Heart Problems Linked to SSRI Antidepressants

February 13, 2013

http://hearthealth.mercola.com/

Heart Health Articles - Mercola . . . scroll down for list of good articles
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Keebler
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CoQ10 is excellent for the heart, too. But it can be a little stimulating for some so start low dose. I think it also needs to be taken with a good oil.
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SacredHeart
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Well crikey, I'm on SSRI because I'm totally cooky from the bacteria munching at my brain.

I have just been having some pain in my chest area. I can't tell what type it is. You know how it goes. Pains every place.

--------------------
Lyme flare June, July, August of 2013. Diagnosed September 2014 Lyme, Bartonella, Mycoplasma, Mono

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WPinVA
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I am curious as to this answer too.. have you found out more?

I have heart symptoms too, but can't tell if they are due to the Lyme or side effects of meds I'm on. So far, I have had an EKG and an echocardiogram.

I am wondering...if I have Lyme carditis, would it already have shown in these tests?

The next step for me is to get a Holter monitor. They tried to put it on but I had a skin reaction to the scrub and the glue in the pads. So now I'm wondering if I want to try again or if I can do without...

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Keebler
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A Holter monitor is not really that good. Such a waste of time, IMO. My heart was skipping all over the place and it missed it - because, I had to push a button each time it happened. But, by the time the button was pushed, the skip had been missed. They say it sort of back up a bit and can detect it but it did not.

For some, it does capture that out of synch beat, though and maybe they are better than they used to be. Even then, your LLMD is the best guide, though and if they think you'd need a cardiologist, they would know who best to refer.

But It's not going to "show" carditis (inflammation).

It might help identify skipping beats but, really, if your heart rate is doing that, there are many other questions to first ask and other things to attend to that can help.

Carditis should show in an echo but it may not. An echo should be done both lying down and standing up, and usually it's not done that way.

See detail about that in thread below. Still, if there is inflammation, there are so many tools we have, so many things to talk about with our LLMD that is very energy may best be focused.

Addressing the various infections / supporting the heart / body . . . avoiding anything that hampers that . . . it can take time.

Check all Rx you take in case there are side effects.

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=077325;p=0#000000

CARDIAC INFO & SUPPORT

There is one post here on how one doctor suggests to do an echo both lying down and standing.

[ 08-02-2015, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Keebler
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As it turned out, when my heart was skipping so much and I'd pass out - or just wind up sitting on the pavement with no notice at all, like the elevator just gave way . . .

turns out that later I read some of the sleep Rx or antidepressants that had been pushed on me during that time, well, the side effects WERE heart rhythm problems and syncope (fainting).

I stopped trying the various mood / sleep Rx as they were all just terrible for me in other ways that I could connect the dots . . . even in very low dose. After lyme / other TBD had been diagnosed, it all made more sense, too.

Stopping gluten helped my mood more than anything, though.

I found other ways for support (though never really was able to obtain a LL doctor, I was able to get some guidance and do some things to help).

Be sure to assess all drugs you take, if you take others than for lyme. And, some for lyme, (one antibiotic that I cannot recall) does have arrhythmia as side effect, or maybe it's QT issues.

QT is also discussed in the cardiac thread above. That's heart rhythm stuff.

Back to the question of carditis, it's hard to imagine anyone with lyme who does not have some level of inflammation in the heart, in the entire body. It's just how lyme works. But there are ways to address that. We do have many tools. Turmeric, etc.

Your LLMD is best to determine if at an "official" carditis diagnosis stage and, if so, to what degree and what can help &/or who else to consult.

For the typical inflammation that goes with lyme, though, most other doctors are just going to be able to even be on that page with us.

If you have more questions than your LLMD can address, ask them or their office manager if they might have a good book or articles to suggest that would be specific to your concerns.

The degree of education involved for anyone with lyme is just staggering. And, while not thrilled that lyme / TBD derailed me so, I will say that some of the tools or principles in how a body works (or does not) I've learned about have been of value.
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SacredHeart
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I recently heard, or read some place while surfing that a minimal number of cases of heart complications are out there and USUALLY

the heart complications occur for people NOT experiencing the joint pain, ect... Is this true?

--------------------
Lyme flare June, July, August of 2013. Diagnosed September 2014 Lyme, Bartonella, Mycoplasma, Mono

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Keebler
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Not sure but it really does not matter. Either you do / don't . . . will / won't. The heart is very much affected by so many things in our lives.

Whether lyme attacks joints or not is certainly no indication that it won't also attack other body organs / systems. It's impossible to know. Once it's systemic, it's systemic. It may go in waves but there is no prediction with Bb, as far as I've been able to see.

While some researchers may observe other particular strains of borrelia affecting joints more than being neurologic, all bets really are off with any spirochete as they can spring anywhere they want.

And, it may be that only the earlier stages are seen by some as affecting joints but then, a year or more later, who knows?

I think it can be very dangerous and overly simplified to say that lyme arthritis is just that and not systemic. There is no way it's not systemic.

That's why we just have to treat it as a full force with overall assertive attention. For every action, we take into account how that will affect our entire body.

Another factor that really spins this, too, is that lyme - or even other borrelia strains - rarely travel alone.

Anyone with any tick-borne infection is likely to have others. So, it just makes sense to be keenly aware of the entire body at all stages and actions. I do think, though, that damage to certain organs / functions could be mitigated or prevented with the earliest treatment possible.

So, in those who are observed to have it only affect one system - BECAUSE they got early / adequate treatment, it was not able to proceed.

I can tell you that in my case, my joints and my neurological systems have been equally affected (as well as adrenals, heart, etc). Maybe not all flaring at the same time but, even looking back so many decades, joints AND all other systems were fully off kilter by the time I can recognize something was very wrong.

Before that, as a child and youth, more likely more neurological / adrenal affected. Joints erupted at age 22. It would be decades later before diagnosis of Bb and 2 other TBD and 2 other stealth infections.
-

[ 08-02-2015, 07:14 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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WPinVA
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I asked my LLMD today about Lyme carditis and specifically whether I, at four years in, and past most of the Lyme yuckiness, could develop it now when I never had heart symptoms early on when I was really sick.

He didn't think so. Thinks heart issues for me are low mag and s/e from meds.

So ultimately I think you need to ask your LLMD.

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