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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Anyone here with Lyme and popping joints?

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Author Topic: Anyone here with Lyme and popping joints?
Spiritwalk
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I posted this before, but I wanted to ask again to see if others experience these symptoms. I've been doing a lot of my own research on Lyme and have read that Lyme loves collagen. I've scoured Lymenet for answers as well.

My joints in my wrists, shoulders, neck, and back are now the worst. But, I have more popping in every joint now than I did before. The popping in my shoulders and wrists are almost nonstop.

I've read in many places that Lyme usually attacks the knees and for some causes a stiff neck.

However, after experiencing severe joint pain in my hands and wrists, the pain began to move to other parts of my body. I started having migrating pains in my hips (really just the bursa area in the beginning), knees, feet, as well as the starting points in my hands and wrists.

It was a few months later than I started noticing my shoulders and wrists began to pop and snap. Then I starting getting snapping in my hips (not happening as much any more), jaw, and finally neck. Now my shoulders, wrists, neck, and back are the worst.

While the popping in my wrists is not pleasant, it doesn't really hurt. My shoulders hurt more but mostly b/c the snapping causes shocks in my back.

But now that my neck and back are popping, there is considerable pain accompanying it.

I'm on my first round of antibiotics and I'm hopeful that treatment will eventually put an end (or at the very least stop the progression) of these symptoms.

So I guess I'm just looking for other testimonies of people who experience the same kind of popping. I've actually found a few old threads here and tried to get into contact with people through PM, but I've found that they are no longer around and answering.

My LLMD seems to believe the popping is a Lyme symptom and I want to believe him. I've been able to find a handful of people on the internet who have popping joints, and they've either been unable to find answers or have been diagnosed with rare cases of Ehler's Danlos Syndrome.

My LLMD doesn't think I have EDS, but I'm skeptical and wondering if the Lyme could have triggered this or triggered something else that is contributing to my snapping joints.

Anyone else have popping joints with Lyme?

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just don
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Arthritis,,,caused by lyme.

Some resemble RA and some OA

I would suggest a heavy dose of Osteo Bi-Flex glucosamine clondritin and chances are it will get better after a few months of use,,,consistent use.

You cant take it every now and then and when you think of it,,,,must be EVERY day

I also take magnesium and Citrical every day and it helps with the pain and other things.

Other suplements might work too,,,takes years to get it right for you.

--------------------
just don

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Spiritwalk
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Thanks jd,

Did you have similar popping in your joints?

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SacredHeart
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Like we talked about before. I have had increased joint popping with lyme.

I pointed it out to my GP before I got diagnosed, but he said it could be dehydration.

I knew it wasn't because I always drank a good amount of water, and the popping had become so frequent I knew it tied into what

was wrong with me. They still do some popping, but not like they did before I started treatment.

Sounds like it is really hitting your joints hard. I don't doubt it is the lyme. Maybe you are having trouble with absorption of the types of things your joints need from your diet?

I'm taking Esther C.

--------------------
Lyme flare June, July, August of 2013. Diagnosed September 2014 Lyme, Bartonella, Mycoplasma, Mono

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TF
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From Burrascano:

"FOR JOINT SYMPTOMS
GLUCOSAMINE

Glucosamine can be of long term benefit to the joints. Do not be misled into buying a product that also contains chondroitin, as this chemical does not add anything, but it can make the product more expensive. Look for a product that contains the herb Boswellia serrata- this is a non-irritative anti-inflammatory. Although many generics exist, the Pharmanex product, "Cartilage Formula" has the right ingredients and is of proven efficacy. Expect improvement only over time (several weeks), but plan to use this indefinitely to maintain joint health." (page 30)

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Spiritwalk
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TF, you're a lifesaver. I actually read that about a week ago and had already forgotten it.

Sacred Heart, it is comforting knowing that you have found relief with the popping.

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Keebler
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-
[Editing in: see TF's note below and read below not necessarily as the last word on the matter

First posted:]

Be careful, though.

Glucosamine [N-acetylglucosamine] is contraindicated for those with lyme, and make lyme much worse -- according to authors of this article:

http://www.townsendletter.com/FebMar2006/lyme0206.htm

BioChemistry of Lyme Disease: Borrelia burgdorferi Spirochete/Cyst

-by Prof. Robert W. Bradford and Henry W. Allen

[4/5 of the way down] . . . Carbohydrates Consumed by Lyme Spirochete

An effort to determine which carbohydrates Bb consumes revealed that the organism utilizes the monosaccharides glucose, mannose and N-acetylglucosamine, as well as the disaccharides maltose and chitobiose.

A popular treatment for arthritis includes the administration of chondroitin sulfate and N-acetylglucosamine. If the arthritis is Lyme-induced, N-acetylglucosamine is contraindicated.22 (See Chart 14.) . . .


Tom Grier has also written similar cautions about Glucosamine.

https://madisonarealymesupportgroup.wordpress.com/2010/08/27/lyme-on-the-brain-by-tom-grier-part-3-a-lecture-notes/

Lyme on the Brain

- by Tom Grier

[about half-way down] . . . So we know the bacteria can evade the immune system and sequester itself, but over time where does it want to be?

One suspected food source is N-Acetyl-Glucosamine, a component of connective tissue. . . .

[ 07-29-2015, 07:30 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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SacredHeart
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Ya, I would just eat a diet that had what I needed for my joints, and take C to make sure I'm getting good absorption.

My joint pain hasn't gone away. It comes back in every joint when I go off my antibiotics.

--------------------
Lyme flare June, July, August of 2013. Diagnosed September 2014 Lyme, Bartonella, Mycoplasma, Mono

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Spiritwalk
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Keebler, this is the story of my life the last three years. Nothing is ever simple.
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Spiritwalk
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bump
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SacredHeart
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Can't sleep either?

--------------------
Lyme flare June, July, August of 2013. Diagnosed September 2014 Lyme, Bartonella, Mycoplasma, Mono

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Brussels
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Joint popping: I had that first time in my life when lyme was totally active. Many joints, as you said, popped, even my spine!

Lyme treatment eliminated that popping for many years for me.

Now I have my right thumb popping too, and I know it is not lyme, but arthritis. I guess, treating toxins in the joints and treating the infections shall solve the problem. Let's see.

as you describe, it is not painful, just annoying. And you may lose power in those joints.

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Spiritwalk
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Brussels,

I'm really hoping that it is Lyme causing the popping, b/c that gives me something I can actually treat. For me the popping does hurt in my neck and back b/c everything gets tight.

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TF
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If glucosamine was contraindicated for lyme and made lyme much worse, I believe Burrascano would know about it. He treated thousands of folks with lyme who had joint problems from it. And, he is recommending glucosamine to lyme patients with joint problems.
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Keebler
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-
TF, thanks for that note. Important to know that. It helps. I'll add that to my file notes on this.

I wonder if the authors I cited may have looked into this as a solo use, or too concentrated without others. Dr. B would likely suggest an "umbrella" of supplements that would all work together.

And, even when an herb is used in whole form vs. isolated part of it, it's harder for infection to conquer it.

so, if a broad antioxidant program were employed with glucosamine as just one part of that, it may be that then that bit of food won't be so separate and the more complex, the harder for Bb to figure out how to offset our plans.

I can't say that as I wish. Language skills, sigh.
-

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cdogs
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I have not been diagnosed with Lyme but all my joints easily pop and just about constantly. My neck is the worst. I've been in some car accidents which have made my neck weak and I'm sure I have awful whiplash. My neck hurts worse when I pop it but I'm not really conscious of doing so.

My fingers and toes also pop easily and ache because of it. :-(

Maybe it is because I do have Lyme? I dunno.

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baldone
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My back sounds like a bowl of rice crispies when I bend.

Especially in the morning.

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Lepidopterophile
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Yes, rice crispies. All of my joints pop everyday, all day. It is worse when Lyme is active like right now. My joints are also "loose". First, my left knee seemed to slide "out of its socket". My chiro put it back in place the first time. It's done it several times since and I've managed to stretch and it goes back. My left thumb and wrist also seem to dislocate at random times. The worst place is a spot in my left shoulder blade. I bring two tennis balls in a sock with me almost any place I go as pressing against these cracks my back and it feels better. The second worst is my neck (although, right now that Lyme is very active, my neck seems worse). It's locking and cracking with every turn of my head...that is, when I can turn my head. I see my chiro to feel better but just read on this board recently that STEM could be making my symptoms worse! Doh!! I'm so addicted to STEM.

Keebler, do you know of a thread that discusses Borrelia strains and this popping? I know that different strains affect different people different ways. I would love to see a map of symptoms with strains to see how they overlap.

--------------------
Positive Western Blot IGM - First in 2013; most recently June 2015. IGG always negative but bands 41,45,58,66 positive.

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Spiritwalk
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3751012/

Apparently Lyme loves collagen. I've searched a lot on my popping joints and Lyme. The article above touches on it some. I'm hoping more people speak up who have similar symptoms.

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Keebler
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-
It's all the "stuck" and "triggering" joints that do me in, never had auditory poppy, but the pop in action when then "trigger" - like playing guns, quick on the draw as a finger will just fly open after that initial catch, but so sharp & deep on the pain.

Berberine really helped me with this for a couple years but that seems to not be the case anymore.
-

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