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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Astragalus not for chronic lyme?

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Author Topic: Astragalus not for chronic lyme?
takethat89
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I have done many reading on herbs and read Buhners book which stated no Astragalus for chronic lyme. My new doctor has a herbal mix for patients that includes atragalus, but i have read so much about this being a no go for chronic lyme patients. Anyone else have experience with this?
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Jordana
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I have some experience. It was one of the first herbs I tried and it made some weird symptoms begin to gain traction, like parotitis and a terrible ,terrible neck ache.

I have a positive ANA which could be a cryptic code word for "chronic Lyme." I wouldn't take it again, personally, at least this year. Maybe later in the "mop up" period it could help.

Buhner recommends Cat's Claw instead to shift the immune system.

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takethat89
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This herbal mixture has that in also. I wonder if they off balance one another.
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Brussels
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I took astragalus while still with chronic lyme.

I loved astragalus, it was very mild for me, much better than stuff like andrographis or even eleuthero.

Buhner, if I remember well, CHANGED the way he sees astragalus and said that some chronic people do react well with it.

I took it for very long.

He wrote in Planet Thrive (I think) that astragalus is FOOD in China. Everybody eats astragalus, including children.

Of course, as with everything you got to try and see how you react. I really liked it, my daughter too, and she was very small (also with chronic lyme, then bitten again, then chronic, on and off).

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ukcarry
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In later comments about astragalus for Lyme, SB accepts that it helps some with chronic Lyme, so it is a sort of suck-it-and-see.
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S13
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It causes a TH1 shift, so that means more inflammation. Good for some, bad for others. A more TH1 oriented immune system does keep borrelia levels lower in the body.
For parasitic coinfections (i mean nematodes, worms, helminths etc.) you need a TH2 response. So shifting away towards TH1 should be done carefully.

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Brussels
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Definitely, it lowered inflammation in my case. I was always a strange lyme patient, as I had chronic lyme but got bitten all the time DURING chronic lyme.

I don't know why, but astragalus almost always felt good, even when I didn't have a new tick bite.

It is a very mild herb, I find, not like cats claw or eleuthero or artemisia annua. So I suppose, if you take and feel bad, just do not take it, wait some time to try again.

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Keebler
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If its in a BALANCED formula, that can work very well.

Buhner's concern is that, alone, or as a primary part of formula, it's too strong for someone who is very ill and whose immune system cannot handle any push and he's correct in that. He also has talked about how, in the right amount, it can be of help.

Still, so much depends on the individual and where they are at the point in time its used. There may be times for it and times to choose another. Always know what else must go along with it so that it's not overly stimulating.

Read all you can of what he says and also know that each person is different. Also read all you can of the book below so that the principles of herbal medicine are clearer. Then it all makes so much more sense.
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[ 02-08-2016, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Keebler
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Hepapro has some excellent formulas for lyme and some contain astragalus - in a very good balance with others, though.

Though not at all about lyme, this book below is one of the best reference resources on my bookshelf that has wonderful chapters, many graciously available through their website.

Home: http://oneearthherbs.squarespace.com/

The ONE EARTH HERBAL SOURCEBOOK (Tillotson, et al)

He is a doctor of Ayurvedic Medicine; She a doctor of Oriental Medicine and Acupuncturist. The third co-author is a doctor of optometry.

Some chapters in the left-side menu for "Understanding" how herb work, the "Nature" of herbs, etc.

You'll want to read about Yin herbs (soothing) and Yang herbs (stimulating) and how, generally, a balance of properties is best.

For those with chronic lyme, herbs that are too stimulating can cause disaster. However, sometimes a "hot" or "yang" herb is needed to break up stagnant "chi" . . . and increase circulation. But when such "yang" herbs are used in someone weak, they are always balanced with tonic or "yin" herbs.

This is where having a LL ND who knows your body is best, if possible, so they know just the right amount of which herbs to incorporate.
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Keebler
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Be sure the doctor you are working with is ILADS educated. If they are not, I don't care how good they may be with herbs, they are not going to be of help to someone with lyme and could be harmful.

A strong view gained from seeing too many otherwise excellent naturopathic doctors who were failures regarding lyme.

They MUST be fully lyme literate even if they are just doing supportive treatment and not the direct lyme treatment. Lyme causes some very severe shifts in the way a body may or may not work. And most regular doctors of any type just have no clue.

The doctor you are seeing - you don't say if that is an ND or a MD who is using herbs. Also important: most MDs who use herbs don't have the full training. Some have studied in great detail but sometimes, someone will use a "recipe" - so be sure they also have full knowledge of herbal medicine.

Now, you may well have a good doctor and the formula may well be balanced. Just important to keep all this in mind.
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Keebler
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http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/2/13964

How to find an ILADS-educated LL:

N.D. (Naturopathic Doctor);

L.Ac. (Acupuncturist);

D.Ay. (Doctor of Ayurvedic Medicine);

D.O.M. (Doctor of Oriental Medicine);

Herbal Safety considerations & reference books; etc.


Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:

Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures from all corners of medicine;

knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.

You can compare and contrast many approaches with links to articles, books, methods . . .
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Keebler
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Harrod Buhner has a brand new edition out now. Be sure to see the (at least four) books he has on lyme and tick-borne infections.

A top notch lyme literate master herbalist / writer. His books help explain how lyme and other TBD work and so much more about how our bodies work (or don't). Even if someone is not likely to incorporate herbal medicine, his books are exceptionally helpful.
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LisaK
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I just asked a healthy food store emplyee why I wasan't seeing Astragalus in the cold remedies like I used to, and she said they don't recomend it any more for people with colds , flus, etc any more.

I forget why, but this would make sense then that it shouldn't be used for lyme I am guessing?

--------------------
Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen

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