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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Aerobic exercise is fatal? Says who...???

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Author Topic: Aerobic exercise is fatal? Says who...???
ohioperson22
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I would like a link to scientific data that aerobic exercise is fatal for people with chronic lyme disease.


We are still humans, underneath our spirochetal infections, and need aerobic exercise. I do, especially, for other reasons.


I want to see evidence that aerobic exercise causes death in lyme-infected individuals.

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foxy loxy
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WHO said THAT???
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Lymetoo
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No one here said that:

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/133898#000007

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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bluelyme
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Over doing can further exhaust adrenals ...but burrascano's recommends lite lifting...?..idk ..my heart hurts

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Blue

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Nula
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Aerobic excercise depresses T-cells, which is not good ...

If you have the flu, your doctor will tell you not to do aerobics, because working out can tax your body too much. Same thing with Lyme.

--------------------
I appreciate all your replies. If it takes me a while to respond, it is either because I'm too sick or because I am unable to log in. From European servers, Lymenet is very frequently inaccessible for days at a time ...

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hiker53
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I believe in moderation aerobic exercise can be good, especially mentally. If I don't exercise some during the day I get really down.

But that is just my personal opinion.

--------------------
Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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ohioperson22
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quote:
Originally posted by Lymetoo:
No one here said that:

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/133898#000007

Right, it wasn't said in that thread. It was said in another. I can't find it.

...


But yeah, the one doctor's guidelines say aerobic exercise is "not allowed."

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TF
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Burrascano's Guidelines say over and over that aerobic exercise is not allowed and he gives you the reasons why. (Start reading at page 31.)

I followed his Guidelines and got rid of lyme disease even though I had it for over 10 years undiagnosed (plus babesiosis and bartonella).

I did one continuous hour of weightlifting every other day. That boosted my immune system marvelously. It was like a miracle to me to see how I regained muscle strength and overall health with this protocol.

My major lyme symptom was extreme muscle weakness. I could not stand for more than a minute or hold the phone to my head for more than 30 seconds. Still, I began trying to do the weightlifting.

After a number of months, I finally worked up to the full hour. I give credit to this particular type of exercise for the fact that I have never relapsed in over 10 years since completing my lyme treatment.

If you are wise, you will treat Burrascano's statements as wisdom. He was the most successful lyme doctor on the planet. Many are walking around in NYC cured of lyme thanks to him. They came from all over the world to be his patients. He was the foremost lyme disease pioneer and treated lyme for over 25 years.

Start reading on page 31.

http://www.lymenet.org/BurrGuide200810.pdf

As Burrascano says, no lyme patient will recover if they do not exercise. My lyme doc told me that at my first appointment with him. I did what Burrascano said and it worked for me.

But, aerobic exercise will set you back. I saw a friend set himself back this way.

Years after I got rid of lyme, I began using a steroid nasal spray daily. After a few months, I was catching every illness that came along.

I stopped the nasal steroid and began the 1 continuous hour of weightlifting again. Sure enough, it worked again to boost my immune system and I no longer got any sicknesses.

So, I have experienced twice the benefit of this particular type of exercise.

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ohioperson22
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TF,

So this means for the rest of one's life, they can never do aerobic exercise again?

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Keebler
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No. And good to be very clear. That is not at all what the caution says. While ill with any infection (and on treatment), though, the caution is important.

Each person should talk to their LLMD regarding what is right for them at various points in time.

Many who have recovered / reached good strong remissions regarding lyme have - gradually over time - gone on to live "typical" lives working, playing, and including [and enjoying] regular & varied exercise in their lives.
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ohioperson22
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Ok.


I have wondered how regular aerobic exercise (in terms of the short-term elevation in heart rate) and the beneficial effects on left ventricular function (ejection fraction, stroke volume, end-diastolic volume, etc) would condition the heart for lyme people with thick blood and prevent intravascular viscosity increases and the risk of intravascular coagulation/hypoperfusion.

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Keebler
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Glue in the veins would not work well with aerobics. Aerobic exercise could be very dangerous for someone with "thick blood" from tick borne infection.

Treatment of infection with key support is vital FIRST. There are plenty of movement options that are not aerobic in nature.

The Nightingale Foundation in Canada, a group for ME patients, has done a SPECT study and found that 12, 24 & 48 hours after aerobic exercise, hypoperfusion in the brains of some ME patients made things VERY MUCH WORSE.

ME / CFS is very often caused by lyme, tick-borne or other chronic stealth infection. And lyme / TBD often involve hypoperfusion.

That detail is in the Cardiac Thread, in one of the links posted above.

In that same Cardiac thread, you will find some detail about how aerobics can damage the heart / even be fatal in the case of a viral infection.

The damage to the liver by aerobics also discussed in the Cardiac thread.

Infections strain the body and its organs / functions tremendously.

It's no time to push harder. It's time to move smarter, though, by finding other ways to enjoy and benefit from movements that are not high speed. Slowing down can have wonderful benefits, too.
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ohioperson22
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Hmmm. Then why does prolonged lack of movement cause DVT? Doesn't movement=blood flow? And I know aerobic exercise using the legs increases venous return.

Do you know what the pathophysiological etiology of hypoperfusion in chronic lyme is?

Is it MOSTLY excess clotting factors, capillary leakage from immune response, microvascular disease (i.e. atherosclerosis, vasculitis), or something else?

Is it good to have meds for both vasodilation as well as thick blood?

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ohioperson22
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And can you please link the cardio thread... I can't find it.
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Keebler
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http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=077325;p=0#000000

CARDIAC INFO & SUPPORT

Includes:

Dr. B's SAFE EXERCISE and PT Rehab guidelines,

EXERCISE INTOLERANCE is (partially) explained in the article: "when exercise doesn't work out [for some people]" (and what we can do about that)

ADRENAL, CARDIAC, MITOCHONDRIA & MYELIN SUPPORT - that all helps movement better work for us

Styles discussed: Pilates; Qi Gong; Tai Chi; Yoga; water; strolling; etc.


http://www.publichealthalert.org/Articles/laurawild/backwards%20blood%20pressure.html

Backwards Blood Pressure
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sixgoofykids
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quote:
Originally posted by ohioperson22:
TF,

So this means for the rest of one's life, they can never do aerobic exercise again?

Did you read the guidelines that TF pointed out? They do not say that! The guidelines have really good information, you should take a look.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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norcal
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I always feel better after LIGHT aerobics.
Was walking through the toughest part of treatment in 2010.
Just recently got back on the road bike after a4 month layoff because I was feeling terrible most of the winter.

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yancync
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Gosh, DS was told to exercise as tolerated. This spring he has 3 practices in a row daily and then a game on the fourth day. He rarely makes the second day of practice because he has a sofa day but then generally makes day 2-4, 4th day being game day. He has to use his inhaler all the time now. Luckily he has a cardiologist appointment tomorrow as re-reading Burrascano's guidelines has me worried plus he has yet to see a cardiologist. He does lift weights 2 days a week in general so I'm glad to see this is beneficial.

--------------------
Parent of teen with late stage Lyme, mycoplasma, bartonella and babesia. Dx Nov '15, in remission early to mid '18.

Started site for parents looking for Lyme/tick info: www.ParentsofLymeKids.com

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TF
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ohioperson, once you recover from lyme disease, you live a totally normal life. That means that you can do aerobic exercise if you like.

For me, I would continue the weightlifting as my major exercise for about 1 year after completing treatment with medications. This way, you are continuing to strengthen your immune system for one additional year.

I also would not drink alcohol for 1 year after completing lyme treatment as that weakens the immune system, just like smoking.

So, for one year, I would not do anything that weakens the immune system. Just to be sure that my immune system is completely strong. Then, after that, do whatever you like.

I believe the doc who cured me recommends no alcohol for 6 months after completing lyme treatment.

The hypoperfusion that I had in my brain as evidenced by an MRI is most likely caused by inflammation in the brain. Lyme is a very inflammatory disease. So, it inhibits good blood flow in the brain by that mechanism.

I got my brain completely back once I got treated by a doc who followed the Burrascno protocol.

I no longer have areas of hypoperfusion in my brain as evidenced by recent MRIs which are totally normal.

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Keebler
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yancync,

You don't say what kind of sport your son plays but just be sure he's not falling or having his head whipped in any way. The brain is often swollen with lyme and any kind of fall or hit can "slosh" it around.

Even jumping jacks can damage a swollen brain.

With what we are learning about brain injury, how it need not even take a hit to be damaged, even, well, I just hope he's playing softball or volleyball (and keeps it off his head).
-

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yancync
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Keebler,

Oh my. He plays/loves lacrosse. Wears a helmet. Doesn't fall, is tall so doesn't typically get hit in head. Plays defense so luckily isn't running up and down the field as when he plays mid-field.

I guess this is another area to research now. This is just never ending.

It's been such a blessing he can play at all. He is the most active kid ever and refuses to let all his infections get him down when he is feeling well. It's a real juggling act for us.

--------------------
Parent of teen with late stage Lyme, mycoplasma, bartonella and babesia. Dx Nov '15, in remission early to mid '18.

Started site for parents looking for Lyme/tick info: www.ParentsofLymeKids.com

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Keebler
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Oh, good. I'm so glad to hear it's lacrosse.

I'm glad he's figured out how to keep something he loves in his life - and as he values it so much he has likely become more attuned to the things required so he can keep this up so that it is working FOR him.

If he needs ways to fine tune that in future, I hope he will not just push through too hard (that no pain, no gain stuff can be wrong) but ask his LLMD for some techniques. Sometimes, there are just a few adjustments that can make a world of difference.

Good thing it's not football - or boxing. I've seen you post before about his team & practices but never what kind of sport it was and so this puts my mind at ease.

I wish him well in the sport - fun, exhilaration and a few wins, too.
-

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Keebler
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yancync,

I was curious so went looking. You & your son likely already know this but just in case there's a tidbit of new detail, here you go.

Good that's it's more anaerobic in demand.

As for the "aerobic training to build up your cardiovascular base for the long season"
there may be a variety of ways to achieve that. Pilates, for instance. A LL sports trainer (if there is such a person) might have some ideas - if he ever feels the need. Seems that he's doing okay, though, and he's good to keep this as priority.


https://www.sharecare.com/health/sports-and-athletic-performance/lacrosse-aerobic-or-anaerobic-sport

Q: Is lacrosse an aerobic or anaerobic sport?

National Academy of Sports Medicine answered

When watching a lacrosse game you will see that there is a high anaerobic demand put on the athletes followed by a shift change and recovery period.

Lacrosse is truly an anaerobic sport and a good aerobic base is required for the total amount of running needed.

The power that a lacrosse player has to generate while out on their shift is very high, with some players doing long sprints the full length of the field. Some of the highest demands are when you decelerate with repeated accelerations.

The recovery period is very important to allow the athlete to replenish the anaerobic system so they can repeat the next shift at the same intensity.

Without this recovery, you cannot maintain this anaerobic level.

Training for lacrosse consists of a lot of anaerobic power sessions

and aerobic training to build up your cardiovascular base for the long season.
-

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Keebler
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Just FYI for all, not just for diagnostics but also to help understand some of the organs, systems, functions that lyme (and other TBD) can affect in various ways.

http://cassia.org/essay.htm

and

http://www.thehumansideoflyme.net/viewarticle.php?aid=65&PHPSESSID=c0adeb1d4869cfb5a38f6447d9ed7a96

When to Suspect Lyme – by John D. Bleiweiss, M.D.
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yancync
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Keebler - thanks so much for this information! It is so helpful! I will check out the links too.

He has been sticking to defense because he can really conserve his energy and just use short bursts of intense energy to block and chase. He also plays basketball in winter but was out of season a lot due to Lyme in knee this winter.

A quick update on cardiologist visit where we had an amazing stroke of luck - the doctor had Lyme herself, caught about 4-6 weeks in while in college. She said she did 6 weeks of abx and has been fine since. Many of her family members have had it too. She grew up in PA.

Anyway, all looks good for DS. He is doing the halter for 24 hrs but his ultrasound looked good and he has no signs of heart block.

I asked her if there's a possibility that Lyme could migrate there as he's in treatment and she is going to do some research on that to see if he needs further monitoring.

She did catch another small unrelated issue so she wants to see him again in 2 years so she can check again then if all is clear now.

--------------------
Parent of teen with late stage Lyme, mycoplasma, bartonella and babesia. Dx Nov '15, in remission early to mid '18.

Started site for parents looking for Lyme/tick info: www.ParentsofLymeKids.com

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Keebler
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yancync,

Thanks for your note. Such a relief to find any specialist who not just will tolerate the mention of lyme but knows something about it -- and even to have has a close call herself, realizing she likely got lucky with early dx and tx.

She sounds like she will also do some detective work for you and not just shrug and send you both on your way.

You are such a good mom in doing the kinds of research and consistent -- my words are just gone. Write your own compliment, you deserve it.

And, oh, hey . . . your dear son sounds like an amazingly strong in all ways that count young man.

You both might be interested in a new book about another teenager's experience. While her path sounds like a different set of things went wrong, there still might be much of interest here -- and to be aware of in case some acquaintances of yours read it:

www.amazon.com/Bite-Me-Disease-Childhood-Almost/dp/145556706X/ref=sm_n_se_dkp_US_pr_sea_1_0?imprToken=tDZbAjT52ugbBoyJsD3ZjQ&linkCode=w42&tag=thelymediseasene

Bite Me: How Lyme Disease Stole My Childhood, Made Me Crazy, and Almost Killed Me

320 pages --Release Date: May 10, 2016

by Ally Hilfiger (Author), Tommy Hilfiger (Foreword)
-

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yancync
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Keebler - Thanks for the reminder about the new book. I heard about it and definitely want to read it. Believe me as you know we have lots more going on with ticks and friends. A real rollercoater so I'm looking forward to it.

And yes, so far we have had some luck with the mainstream docs we've talked to lately.

--------------------
Parent of teen with late stage Lyme, mycoplasma, bartonella and babesia. Dx Nov '15, in remission early to mid '18.

Started site for parents looking for Lyme/tick info: www.ParentsofLymeKids.com

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