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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Question about cyst form Bb

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Author Topic: Question about cyst form Bb
ohioperson22
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Is the cyst form pathogenic/infectious, or is it 100% dormant.

Like, theoretically, if someone had billions of cysts throughout their body (that's actually not a big number, when talking about bacteria)... and were able to keep it that way for life, would they go into remission?

And if cysts express different surface antigens (or physically expose different surface antigens, as Horowitz's microscopy images make them look like curled up spirochetes), can that elicit an immune response and consequent protection?


If what is said about the rapid cyst formation within 4 hours of any antibiotic, it can't reconcile the fact that people DO get better...

...And this goes across the spectrum... some people DO get better from just 1 month IV rocephin, or some similar therapy, or even indeed months or years of a cephalosporin or tetracycline, having never used a "cyst buster."


While the cyst formation thing is proven, is it's correlation with refractory lyme a speculative theory?

Posts: 200 | From Ohio | Registered: Apr 2016  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
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Q: " . . . is [the cystic form's] correlation with refractory lyme a speculative theory?" (end quote)

Absolutely not. The cystic form of lyme and it's relation to chronic lyme is very much a reality. Within 20-minutes of an antibiotic, the cystic form can start to develop.

This cyst is not how you think of other cysts in the body. This cyst is sort of like the turtle shell (not as hard, obviously) as in a protective shell that forms, a home for spirochetes to hide and reproduce.

Also referred to as "round bodies" - be sure to read all you can on this aspect by EVA SAPI. Google her, search her videos at YouTube, find her website, etc.


Doxycycline treatment increased round bodies by ∼275% (Figure 3B).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3132871/

Infect Drug Resist. 2011; 4: 97–113.
Published online 2011 May 3.

Evaluation of in-vitro antibiotic susceptibility of different morphological forms of Borrelia burgdorferi

Eva Sapi . . . Raphael B. Stricker . . . .


How taking just doxycycline (or any antibiotic alone) can cause Chronic Lyme:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=120369;p=0

Topic: replication within cystic forms of lyme

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/132505

Topic: How quickly can lyme change forms?
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Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
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http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/91327?#000036

Topic: How did Burrascano cure himself?

See Pamela Weintraub's 3 posts here - she discusses differences in STRAINS other than Bb regarding variations in recovery & treatment.

In addition, her book CURE UNKNOWN is very instructive.
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Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ohioperson22
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I guess I'm wondering why some people DO respond to mono therapy (i.e. people with acute lyme emergencies who get the month of rocephin, and then are cured)?

Maybe in some people the cysts never re-activate, or their rate of re-activation can be dealt with by that person's immune system?

EDIT: Nevermind, I read your reply in another thread talking about possibility of different strains.

I also see that a "cyst" is not a single cell. Hmmm, then that's a bigger problem.

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TF
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ohio, see page 4 of Burrascano:

"Apparently, in early infections, before extensive damage to the immune system has occurred, if the germ load of the co-infectors is low, and the Lyme is treated, many of the other ticktransmitted microbes can be contained and eliminated by the immune system. However, in the chronic patient, because of the inhibited defenses, the individual components of the co-infection are now active enough so that they too add to features of the illness and must be treated. In addition, many latent infections which may have pre-dated the tick bite, for example herpes viruses, can reactivate, thus adding to the illness."

So, as you can see, if lyme is treated very early, it is a totally different ballgame from chronic lyme. Burrascano gives his definition of "chronic lyme" on page 3.

Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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