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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Buhner's interview on lyme treatment

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Author Topic: Buhner's interview on lyme treatment
Brussels
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IS THE BACTERIA MAKING THE DISEASE?

Nearly all Americans have been trained to think about disease using a lens that developed in the early to mid-twentieth century, in short, the bacterial theory of disease-causation.

There were a large number of people raising objections to that paradigm then but they were pretty much shouted down.


Essentially most people believe that it is the bacteria that cause the disease and if we kill them off, we will be well.


IN THE PAST, KILLING BACTERIA WORKED WELL:

There is a certain level of truth to that and in fact, in the short run, from about 1950 to now, the approach seemed to work very well.


BUT NOW, NO LONGER WORKING TOO WELL....

What is more accurate however is that that orientation has been failing at an ever increasing rate for some time.

To the point that within the near future it will fail almost completely (except in certain, very specific circumstances).


There are a number of factors involved in that failure.


BACTERIAL THEORY OF DISEASE PARADIGM IS WRONG

One of them is that the bacterial theory of disease paradigm that came into play in the early twentieth century was based on a number of false premises, premises that were representative of psychological projection more than anything else.


ARE BACTERIA STUPID AND JUST GUNNING THEM DOWN THE SOLUTION?

The most glaring of these was the assumption that bacteria were stupid and people were not, in other words that the bacteria would just sit around and twiddle their non-thumbs while we killed them off.


WE CREATED RESISTANT BACTERIAL DISEASE THROUGH THAT APPROACH

This false premise has led to the tremendously dangerous position we are in now with resistant bacterial diseases.


TAKE A CLOSER LOOK OF AIDS (IMMUNE VIRAL DISEASE)

The second thing is that AIDS (and cancer to some extent) brought home the point that many objectors to the bacterial theory of disease were making: if the immune system is healthy, the bacteria are quite often not dangerous, that is, they do not cause disease.


CAN YOU HEAL AIDS JUST GIVING ANTI VIRALS?

if the immune system is not healthy, no amount of pharmaceuticals can heal anyone.

No matter how many antibacterials were given to AIDS patients, they still died.

If the immune system is not healthy there is no way to survive.


THEY CHANGED THE TREATMENT OF AIDS, AND WE SHOULD CHANGE THE TREATMENT OF ANY CHRONIC BACTERIAL DISEASE TOO!

So, the treatment of disease is moving into a new paradigm:
1) targeted antibacterials;
2) immune support;
3) cytokine cascade disruption;
4) symptom treatment.


YOU MAY NOT EVEN NEED ANTIMICROBIALS!

And in fact, if the latter three conditions are fulfilled, then the first is often unnecessary. In fact, the latter three are the most important.


IN CASE OF LYME:

I found that in helping those with lyme to recover from the disease, if their immune function was brought up, the specific symptoms addressed, and the cascade disrupted, their symptom picture would improve and they would get better.


STILL NOT WELL AFTER MASSIVE DOSES OF ANTIBIOTICS?
On the other hand, many people with lyme, when given antibiotics that in fact did kill of the spirochetes, did not recover very well.

In fact, they often continued to have symptoms for years afterwards, what some people call post-lyme disease syndrome.


WHY CAN'T PHYSICIANS WHO TREAT LYME CANNOT LEARN FROM AIDS AND CANCER EXPERIENCES?

This approach is not news to those who treat AIDS or cancer, it is just that most physicians are using an outdated paradigm for treatment.


FROM
http://www.tiredoflyme.com/stephen-buhner.html

Posts: 6196 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Brussels
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AFTER LYME IS GONE...

In short, antibiotics rarely do anything to heal the damage caused by a bacterial infection.

The physicians leave that up to the patient’s body (and then take credit for it later).


But with lyme, the degree of damage the infection causes is directly related to the level of health of the immune system.


The worse initial immune function is, the worse the damage.


Many people simply can’t recover their energy levels, immune function, and so.

In addition, there is often neural damage which, by itself, is hard to correct on its own.

The older a person is, the harder that is to heal.

So specific protocols designed to heal the damage is often necessary.


Medical doctors know virtually nothing about how to do that, nor do the pharmaceuticals they use have that kind of effect. So another approach is essential.

Posts: 6196 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Brussels
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HOW PLANTS OUTSMART OUR BRAINS THOUSANDS OF TIMES

Human beings are very late on the scene here. We are not nearly so smart as we like to think.

Plants on the other hand have been here a very long time, 170 million years for the flowering plants alone.

Plants cannot run, they have to stay there and take it, so they became the greatest chemists there are.

Plants have been dealing with bacterial infections their entire time on this planet.


To give an example of how complex their responses are: if a bacteria infects a plant, the plant has a very complex response.

1) the plant releases antibacterial compounds to kill the bacteria;

2) the plant releases compounds that have only one function: to reduce the side effects of the antibacterial compounds (this protects their own tissues from damage);

3) the plant releases compounds that deactivate the resistance mechanisms the bacteria use to avoid the antibiotic, e.g. disabling bacterial efflux pumps;

4) the plant releases compounds that act synergistically with the other compounds to enhance their effects;

5) the plant begins creating and releasing compounds that stimulate its own immune response.


This is just a small picture of what they do.


This kind of approach is so much more sophisticated than human approaches as to leave us in the dust.


Further, plants are biodegradable (pharmaceuticals are not),

they are renewable (pharmaceuticals are not),

they don’t cause resistance problems in bacteria (pharmaceuticals do),

they don’t cause environmental pollution the way pharmaceuticals do,

and they don’t cost very much – they are in fact something that people can grow and use themselves, thus they empower people in their own healthcare.

Posts: 6196 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Brussels
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DRUG RESISTANT BACTERIA but not PLANT RESISTANT BACTERIA

Nearly all pharmaceuticals are a single chemical substance.

It is very easy for bacteria to identify that chemical and to then rearrange their genetic structure to avoid it.


they can’t do that with plants, plants have hundreds of compounds, all working synergistically.


The bacteria just don’t have the capacity to deal with that.


They can’t develop resistance to several hundred synergistically compounds simultaneously.

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Brussels
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DRUGS ARE DEAD END

There is no way we can avoid the difficulties facing us.

We are facing the emergence of resistant bacterial epidemics more virulent than any known before. It is only a matter of time.

I realize that this sounds alarmist and there is every tendency on people’s part to assume that this comes from some desire for grandiosity on my part.


But the fact is that the world’s leading bacterial researchers have been warning of this for several decades now.

Every year sees the moment when these epidemics break out come closer.


Because of the long term miseducation of the American public, for most people, when the epidemics occur, they will be caught off guard.


In fact most likely the American population as a whole will feel, rightly so, betrayed.

To put it frankly, a trade union (the AMA) ended up controlling medical care in the U.S. and promulgated a perspective on disease and its treatment that was and is tremendously inaccurate.


To date, there is virtually no movement to correct this.

If you read the papers, the stories of people contracting resistant infections in hospitals appear daily. All of them are surprised.


Yes, the majority of these diseases are treatable with herbal medicine – if the knowledge base is there on the practitioner’s or person’s part – but the majority of people are not aware of that, ...


...neither or most herbal practitioners, including naturopaths.


As David Livermore, MD, Antibiotic Resistance Monitoring and Reference Laboratory, Health Protection Agency Centre for Infections, puts it, “It is naïve to think we can win.”

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Brussels
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You can get well. Thousands of people have.

By deciding to take charge of your own health and finding out what works for you, yes, you can get well. There is hope. Really.

Stephen Buhner's interview 2012

Posts: 6196 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Marnie
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Bad pathogens "trick" an inappropriate immune response to benefit themselves - to help them to INVADE - plow a road. Some stay with us...hiding out, just waiting...CMV, EBV, C. Pneumoniae, etc.

Doxy, given in high enough doses, really fast (post tick attachment) for a sufficient length of time DOES ***lower M2 macrophages** ( function via oxphos, high iron, resolving macrophages).

Difference is phagocytosis (M1 inflammatory, function via glycolysis lower Fe) vs. Pinocytosis (M2 resolving, function via oxidative phosphorylation, higher iron).

Google: anti CD47 antibodies lyme

CD47 = "don't eat me" protein = "I'm still healthy and viable."

There IS more than one way!

LuxS iron - quorum sensing, biofilm...

Find a substitute for iron.

Google: George Eby arthritis

Anti CD47 antibodies likely would work also. Upregulate M1 macrophages.

Perhaps the acid in Chaga mushrooms (betulinic acid)

Black seed oil may help from a different aspect. That oil was found in King Tut's tomb...

We knew more then than now.

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bluelyme
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Ok so silver works the same way by donating a ion to the bacteria that consume it ...do you think this gallium nitrate works on borrielia the same way ?

Its a metal but looks safer than flouride (floxie drugs ).
I may get some horse stuff to try inder the microscope ...its not a plant but at one point buhner was condoning bismuth?!

have you tried the gn marnie? Thanks for the lead

--------------------
Blue

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Brussels
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Marnie, thanks for your comments.

The whole central point in Buhhner's interview is that we, in the Western world, have been brainwashed to think that the bacteria and pathogens are THE cause for our diseases,...

... while he points that only targeting pathogens worked in the past (when pathogens were less resistant), but is working less and less.

So, his suggestion: concentrate on OTHER things than pathogen killing ONLY, if you want to get out of lyme.

And if you would like to protect yourself from a next superbug infection, it is not potent killers that will necessarily save you (due to low immunity).

His suggestion to attack the disease in OTHER ways is :
1) targeted antimicrobials;
2) immune support;
3) cytokine cascade disruption;
4) symptom treatment.

No immune system, as you said , no health back.

there is more than one way, for sure. There are as many ways as lyme sufferers...

Why symptom treatment? Rebuilding the body back must be addressed (like building your joints again, giving it proper nourishment that had been eaten up by infection, for example).

If you guys watched the Cancer Series (Global Quest), you'll see that treatment and prevention of cancer goes in this line too:

killing-only approach is the most inefficient thing to do, because cancer, LIKE BORRELIA, has ways to hide (in cancer stem cells),..

... and cancer killing therapies damage the good cells and lower immunity (like LONG term antibiotics do)...

... and cancer killers will NEVER get all the bad cancer cells (like antibiotics or any antimicrobials WILL NEVER all bad critters)...

Cancer patients are usually chronic infection and inflammation sufferers! Again, like lyme patients.

Cancer loves inflammation. Like pathogens in lyme disease love inflammation.

I loved the thought of Buhner saying that people with chronic lyme should learn with AIDS treatment.

ONly targetting viruses does not keep the patient alive!!

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Catgirl
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Love this thread!

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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ukcarry
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I very much agree with this approach.

Of course, sometimes targeting a virus can help to restore immune response, especially if you have a virus such as HTLV, which is known for its immune suppression. It is all a balancing act.

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anuta
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I totally get Buhner approach I have his latest book where he talks about these principals. And AIDS treatment concentrates on the immunomodulation and not an the antivirals.

However, I base the intake of any treatment modalities on my muscle tests ( Brussels , you do the same. And I imagine you would never take something that tests negative for you). So I never test positive for any immuno modulators. Of course I don't have all the herbs that Buhner talks about, but the onces that I have: Ashwaganda, lickorice,, ginseng, Astragalus, Ginkgo, I can't take it.

However, I test for example for Bartonella nosodes.
I think it is very individual..

The thing that I have to totally agree with Buhner- herbs are amazing!!! Much more intelligent and multi- factorial then drugs.

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anuta
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I totally get Buhner approach I have his latest book where he talks about these principals. And AIDS treatment concentrates on the immunomodulation and not an the antivirals.

However, I base the intake of any treatment modalities on my muscle tests ( Brussels , you do the same. And I imagine you would never take something that tests negative for you). So I never test positive for any immuno modulators. Of course I don't have all the herbs that Buhner talks about, but the onces that I have: Ashwaganda, lickorice,, ginseng, Astragalus, Ginkgo, I can't take it.

However, I test for example for Bartonella nosodes.
I think it is very individual..

The thing that I have to totally agree with Buhner- herbs are amazing!!! Much more intelligent and multi- factorial then drugs.

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Brussels
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Nosodes do help the body to kill some pathogens, but they may do things that have nothing to do with killing,..

...like cleaning the mess of bart- herxes or damage that bart did.

Just a simple example: Borrelia nosodes LM4 or LM6 do no killing, that I know.

I have been using these nosodes as TICK REPELLENTS for more than 10 years!!

It's my best tick repellent so far. I ingest these nosodes so that less ticks bite me.

It works on animals and people.

Borrelia nosodes K 1000 do absolutely no killing at all: they only clean the memories of lyme on the tissues, or emotions.

Testing for nosodes does not mean that it is only killing... in my opinion.


It is so sad that we are all like puzzles, each different than the other.

The healthier one is, the better immune system one has, the better detox abilities, the better absorption of good minerals and nutrients one has.

You may then take drugs and get better.

You may then just take a couple of herbs and get better.

You may then use a few Rife frequencies and get better.

It's easy to solve when we are healthier from start.


The opposite is though hell: bad immune system, bad detoxing abilities, bad absorption in the gut...

The problem is that one system is connected to the other - immune to digestive to neuro to detox organs...

That is why it is so hard.

Imagine the people that then start to be allergic to everything they ingest, due to this bad equation above (bad immune system + bad absorption + bad detox).

They can't even treat, nor nourish themselves properly any more. It's a life-threatening situation.

Excessive killing will harm weaker people more, because of accumulation of toxins.

If you are still stronger, it matters less, I suppose.

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Tcoach1
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what is the cytokine casdcade disruption process?
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TF
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Do a search on "cytokines" or "cytokine storm." This is prevalent in lyme patients.

Dr. H speaks about this throughout this article:

http://lymeconnection.org/news_publications/meet_the_lyme_disease_experts.html/title/dr-richard-horowitz

Here is Wikipedia's definition:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytokine_storm

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6Hypnone
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Though aren't abx based off of herbals? My Lyme doc was saying that since that is the case, that's why a resistance can be developed against them too.
Though reading this, are all herbals comprised of other synergistic ingredients, even if you're just buying a single herb? And that if that is also true, you don't have to worry about resistance? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

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Brussels
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One abx = one single chemical molecule.

One herb = dozens to hundrends to thousands of chemical molecules!!!

2 abx = 2 chemical molecules

2 herbs = hundreds to many thousands of chemical molecules...

Critters can easily create resistance to antibiotics, because it is just one chemical molecule, one single type of gun shot.

A plant is not MADE to be a killer. A plant uses chemical molecules to attack pathogens, but a plant is formed by hundreds or throusands of molecules.

No researcher on the planet could isolate each molecule of a single plant and describe all its functions.

Not to say when they interact among each other: the numbers of possibilities of interactions between molecules of ONE SINGLE PLANT would reach billions, trillions of possibilities!!

How can bacteria become resistant to that?

Plants also fight infections, like we do. They evolved fighting infections, like we do.

That is why Buhner says, it's up to a healthy immune system to do the job of keeping infections at bay.

Plants can help, even abx can help, but critters have more difficulty to fight against multiple approaches (multiple molecules at a time) than single bullet approaches (single molecules).

Living beings (such as plants and ourselves) can act in multiple ways to fight bacteria, because that has been the way nature evolved. It's never through a mono-single approach.

That is why we need so many simultaneous antibiotics to keep lyme at bay.

Even if we took 10 antibiotics at a time, what is that compared to the thousands of chemicals of a single plant?

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