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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » HISTAMINE, HPU, Dr K LYME

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Author Topic: HISTAMINE, HPU, Dr K LYME
daystar1952
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After years of having Lyme and coinfections I have histamine issues. When I sweat I break out in hives or when I excercise...mostly in the summer. Some of the hives don't act like regular hives in that they don't disappear soon and when itched they can ooze and turn red like a bug bite and then scab over.

I have been reading about histamine intolerance and it's kind of discouraging. A couple days ago I read or listened to info from Better health Guy and Dr K which points at Lyme caausing a conditon called HPU or KPU and that this condition is a lack of minerals which can cause the histamine problem.

A certain protocol is suppsed to help it. Not sure if I got the details right. Anyone have experience with this?

**edited name of LLMD**

[ 06-28-2017, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: Lymetoo ]

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Lymetoo
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Read through some of these on Mast Cell Activation Syndrome:

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/3/36299

It can be managed and you can get your symptoms under control.

You might also look at your diet... a diet high in oxalates (doesn't take very much) can deplete our minerals.

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dbpei
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thanks for the good info above! I wonder about this as well.
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shoeless joe
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I blamed everything on yeast for years but my body has shown me I also have a problem with histamine.

We treat lyme and at the same time wipe out our gut,the symptoms become confusing.

Every time I would try a strict candida diet I could never get better,reason being is histamine.

Try to eat an anti-candida I would rely on a lot of protein,meat and left over meat,also a lot of nuts. I would drink cocoa with stevia and high histamine vegys trying to get rid of yeast.

I could never figure out why I wasn't getting better till I learned about histamine.

I believe the reason a lot of lymies get POTS syndrome is histamine and a messed up gut.

Thanks for the HPU information.

At present I am trying less protein,vitamin c throughout the day,quercetin, an acasional dao supplement and low histamine diet.

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ukcarry
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HPU/KPU is also known as pyroluria and Dr K did say some years back that 80% of his Lyme patients had it. It looks as if it can be present from birth or acquired.

Owing to a heme defect, people with pyroluria/HPU/KPU dump some of their nutrients which can cause a wide range of symptoms, both physical and mental. These nutrients then need to be supplemented, especially zinc and B6, but some people also take others such as Omega 6 (evening primrose oil).

Diagnosis is via a urine test measuring levels of pyrroles. It is not advised to start supplementing high levels of zinc and B6 without a proper diagnosis, especially as some people have reported toxicity from supplementary B6.

There is a Facebook Pyroluria group you could join if you think you may have pyroluria and want to know more about it.

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Lymetoo
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Same here, shoeless joe. I thought for YEARS that my main issues were the yeast.

UK... Very true about B6 supplements .. I stay away from that. We get plenty in our foods.

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--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Brussels
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I've been trying for a decade to fix the HPU problem, without success.

My daughter and I have the problem (one lab test done long ago). We never could supplement zinc, due to excessive reactions.

When we go back to see the lyme doctor (we no longer have lyme, so we go see him every other year.... or less), he always tests us back and find HPU issue.

My daughter was the picture of the pyroluria children: white face, broken nails, many infections...

She got better after using the violet ray (no more white face, for sure, her nails grow better, not perfect but better, but she still catches infections if she's on gluten).

Whatever this is, we both react like hell to zinc.

So now we are trying another varied version of the KPU, with IMPRINTED zinc. For the first time ever, I could pass one week on daily intake of zinc, without a collapse.

I had pain, fatigue, headaches, tummy aches, but have not totally collapsed. Yet!!

my daughter too. We're crossing fingers our bodies will stop dumping zinc like it always did...

Dr. K continues to preach about HPU, he thinks it's still important, after so many years. So he continues to find the problem in his patients, probably.

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shoeless joe
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lymetoo,are you still on cromolyn and is it helping?
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jsnyde2
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Tutu thanks so much for this - I just pulled up Lymenet because my face starting burning after I ate a very small, homemade, blueberry muffin. I wanted to cry. I know it's a no no but. cheesh.

So this makes a lot of sense. Thanks

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jsnyde2
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Is the list of foods high in oxolates the same as foods high in histamine? Are they the same thing?
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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by shoeless joe:
lymetoo,are you still on cromolyn and is it helping?

-
Yes, it's wonderful!

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--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by jsnyde2:
Is the list of foods high in oxolates the same as foods high in histamine? Are they the same thing?

-
Totally different, but some overlap.

Oxalates:

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/3/36116#000000

The best FB group on oxalates is Trying Low Oxalate ..Susan Owens has the most well-researched and ACCURATE list.

Salicylates:

https://www.fedup.com.au/factsheets/additive-and-natural-chemical-factsheets/salicylates

Histamine:

http://www.histamineintolerance.org.uk/about/the-food-diary/the-food-list/

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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jsnyde2
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Okay, I answered my own question, no they are not the same.

I do think I have a histamine issue, but oxolates: Tutu - what made you know you had oxolate issue? I have never had kidney stone.

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Catgirl
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Most lyme patients have HPU or KPU. You can try Core (biopure) but go slowly (1 pill). For people starting out, some dump heavy metals which can cause a huge herx (it did on me). Keep some binders on hand for this. I didn't start to heal until I got on Core.

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Brussels
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I tried again one pill of B-Life Protect, just to see. It's another improved version of the KPU protocol (easier and better than Core, said my lyme doctor...).

I have still about 5-6 unopened boxes of Core, half for children, half for adults. I never opened them, because my body rejects it.

Yesterday's single pill dose took me 24 hours to clear up, after loads of treatments.... [Roll Eyes]


It feels like total poisoning of my liver, I get shut down, like a dark veil in my brain, body...

I can't see that as a healing reaction. I feel literally poisoned. I become closed in my own world, can't socialize, feel literally sick, just want to disappear in a hole.


I will go on the imprinted zinc trial ONLY. I get much better results with it, without the awful side effects from real chemical zinc.

I feel my joints and bones being cleared, my mind getting cleared, I take binders and feel improving, energy improved, better mood, etc. Waay different than chemical zinc supplements.

With actual KPU supplements, I see zero improvements, on the contrary, I feel poisoned. After a decade trying, my results are always the same.

My daughter is on imprinted VFT zinc too, and she's eating cherries again!!

Just one week before she started the imprinted zinc, cherries were burning her mouth (like every year: it takes a couple of cherries to trigger her allergy back).


Well, she's eating cherries daily! She's still afraid, so she takes about 5-10 cherries a day, no more, but that is a phenomenal improvement to her fruit allergy.

We'll go on imprinted VFT zinc, and only long term use will tell if this solves the allergy problem or not...

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shoeless joe
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thanks lymetoo,glad its helping

I only did a months worth,maybe I should have stuck with it.

I think it was 1400 bucks for a months worth.

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Catgirl
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Right on Brussels (imprinted zinc)! I don't think they have B-Life protect here. What's in it?

In my case, my body started dumping metals and I wasn't able to handle it. I had the worst herxes ever. It was all stuck in my head. My body was massively dumping heavy metals after a life time of mineral deficiency. I tried lots of other mineral supplements, but nothing else made me detox. In fact, I just took minerals per my lyme doc. Then I discovered what Core does and my healing path began.

There is something about that formulation that works for people with HPU/KPU, then they can detox. Dr. K explains it all or better health guy has info on it. That said, we are all so very different. What works for one person may not work for another.

It's awesome imprinted zinc works Brussels! For me sometimes all I have to do is carry something around in my pocket and my body starts adapting/absorbing the energy of the pill. Energy is the invisible world, and it's huge. God is invisible. Energy lives. It's all around us.

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--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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Brussels
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Thanks Catgirl!

Core does not test for a long time... My lyme doctor said dr. K was changing its composition lately (or am I mistaken?).

My doc prefers B.Life protect... He's no longer recommending Core for many years (because it does not test good for most of his patients compared to other supplements, he said).

B-Life protect has:

Vitamin B6 = Pyridoxal-5-Phosphat
Zink = Zinkgluconat and Zinkcitrat
Magnesium = Magnesiumcitrat
Mangan = Mangangluconat

then he still gave me some primrose oil capsules, that I have no problem to take.... My problem is only zinc, as far as I know.

It can't be dumping of toxins only, I believe. Reactions start too fast after intake, then last about 48 hours.

I can't clean my body this way, because I'm shut down, like totally ill, like the old times with lyme and co.

I shake, shiver, get extremely weak as though I'm starving of hunger, then get totally closed in my world, can't talk, can't do anything. I believe is some detox pathway blocked.

But I like your idea to walk with supplements in your pocket! I know what you mean.

In muscle tests, we know that when the substance gets near to your skin, your body 'understands' it as though you 'took it' already!!

I'll follow your advice, and put a capsule of B-Life protect in my pocket. Who knows??

The same way you can feel the supplement in your pocket, is the way we treated with photons and Borrelia nosodes! That is how powerful these photon fields are! [Smile]

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Lyme4awhile
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I wanted to get peoples opinions in this thread. I tested positive for KPU last year, and just recently started on a protocol by a physician that gives seminars on how to treat it. I started out taking Zinc Picolinate 30mg, P5P 50 mg, Pyridoxine HCl (synthetic B6) 100 mg, and Vitamin A 10,000 IU. My cerulosplasmin appeared to be sitting at the low end of normal, thus the Vitamin A to help raise it to bring it up.

After being on the protocol for a month and 9 days, I had to stop. I had feelings of terrible anxiety, as well as a fast resting pulse. I went up for 3 days as far as 60 mg zinc, and 200mg Pyridoxine, while also taking the P5P at 50 mg and Vitamin A 10000 IU. My physician following me on the protocol thinks that it is because I cannot take large doses of antioxidants to offset the unbound copper caused by the low ceruloplasmin level.

I'm unsure of what the previous posters above are referring to when speaking of VFT zinc. Can anyone let me know more about this and also any advice is more than welcome.

Lastly, after starting the protocol, within 3 days after starting it the nail on my middle finger on my left hand cracked. It started as a single ridge, but has since spread out to the rest of the entire nail and is raised, but not painful. I've never seen this before and am unsure as to what it could mean.

[ 07-04-2017, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: Lyme4awhile ]

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ukcarry
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It mght be helpful for you to join the pyroluria (same thing) Facebook group and post your question there. I think that some people do report the bad anxiety you mention..

I don't know how strongly positive your test result was, though your starting level of B6 added to the p5p does sound rather high to me, the zinc levels not especially high.

I can't comment on what has happened to your nail.

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Brussels
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L4awhile... Are you taking binders?

I wonder if the practitioner just give you KPU supplements without proper binders?

I can't help either, as I never could do the KPU protocol properly due to severe intolerance to zinc.

The VFT = Vital Force TEchnology. there is no zinc inside, it's just an imprint of zinc. Dr. Kronn speaks of phantom atoms: the imprinted zinc would do the same as what zinc should do, but without side effects.

So far, I think he's right. But even if I'm on phantom zinc atoms, I need binders!!! Real binders, not phantom binders!!

My daughter is also pouring heavy metals with phatom zinc atoms!

For what I understood, when your levels of zinc and other nutrients get good, your nails should not be cracking anymore... But well, that is in theory.

And if you aren't taking massive doses of binders, I suppose you have LOADS of heavy metals in circulation now, causing damage. (?) Just a supposition...

I hope you find what's wrong. But anxiety after 9 months of KPU supplements looks like toxin in circulation.

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Lyme4awhile
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quote:
Originally posted by Brussels:
L4awhile... Are you taking binders?

I wonder if the practitioner just give you KPU supplements without proper binders?

I can't help either, as I never could do the KPU protocol properly due to severe intolerance to zinc.

The VFT = Vital Force TEchnology. there is no zinc inside, it's just an imprint of zinc. Dr. Kronn speaks of phantom atoms: the imprinted zinc would do the same as what zinc should do, but without side effects.

So far, I think he's right. But even if I'm on phantom zinc atoms, I need binders!!! Real binders, not phantom binders!!

My daughter is also pouring heavy metals with phatom zinc atoms!

For what I understood, when your levels of zinc and other nutrients get good, your nails should not be cracking anymore... But well, that is in theory.

And if you aren't taking massive doses of binders, I suppose you have LOADS of heavy metals in circulation now, causing damage. (?) Just a supposition...

I hope you find what's wrong. But anxiety after 9 months of KPU supplements looks like toxin in circulation.

It sounds like the zinc that you take is like homeopathic zinc, would that be correct?

I was on the protocol for 39 days, and it just got worse as time went on. First I had to drop the Pyridoxine level from 200 mg back to 100 mg, and then eventually eliminate it altogether while feeling toxic.

I forgot to mention that I was also briefly on Evening Primrose Oil caps and Vitamin E, but I did not tolerate them well. I have low stomach acid and do not break down fats very well. From my understanding, it seems that Pyroluria itself can cause low stomach acid production.

What binders do you recommend, or do you use?
I'm curious to know more about the protocol you're using to handle this condition.

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Brussels
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No, it's not homeopathic.

I took homeopathic zinc for some time, in different dilutions, but it was just a sort of preparation for my body to accept zinc.

It did not work, so far. It's been 10 years on trial and error, and so far, I got only error! [Wink]

So now I moved to plasma-imprinted zinc, it's a TOTALLY different technology, different effects, they do not work with dilutions like homeopathy, but try to imprint what they call the 'vital force' from Periodic Table (chemistry).

I use dr. K's binders: chlorella in high amounts (like about 3-6 times a day, when necessary) together with one dropperful of bear garlic tincture.

The idea is to help detox through the stools (chlorella) and kidneys (bear garlic). I guess the oils (primrose, or omega 3) protect nerves from toxic damage.

You can add other things, depending on what toxins you are excreting...

I'm thinking to work again on this HPU, now using this form of phantom-zinc and taking the other supplements separate. But I'll go one by one: I hate multi supplements, I RARELY fare well with multi supplements, multi vitamins, multi herbs, whatever multi-sthg rarely works.

The only multi-good-things for me are homeopathic products or pure energy products.


gosh, when I read your problems with the KPU protocol, I'm somehow glad you react to it badly.

Sorry to say that, but both practitioners I went could not really understand our reaction to KPU supplements, as other patients seem to be doing fine!

I'm suspecting that this all has to do with some detox pathways that are blocked.

I have no problem to eat seashells or mussels in GREAT AMOUNTS, that are said to be high in zinc. But the chemical form of zinc just feels like killing me.


I wonder for people with sulfur intolerance: can they take onion and garlic or just sulfur supplements are problematic?!


When I read all the problems all you people are going through, gosh, I wish we knew how to correct these detox or metabolic problems and make our bodies accept what is supposed to be 'healthy'...

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