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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Question about PCR for lyme

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Author Topic: Question about PCR for lyme
Brussels
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Does anybody know the answers for these questions regarding PCR for Borrelia?

1- Is a positive PCR for Bb = lyme disease?

2- Does your health insurance accept a positive PCR for Bb as a proof that lyme disease is the culprit of your chronic problems? Meaning, does the insurance pay you medical costs if you show them a positive PCR for Bb?

3- How many cycles are the PCRs for Borrelia burgdorferi tests usually? Like 25, 30, 35, 40 cycles?

Thank you.

The reason I'm asking is this:

If positive PCRs for SarsCov2 run at 40-45 cycles are a PROOF the person is SICK with Covid19, why would it be different for lyme disease?

I never heard that positive PCRs for Borrelia constitute a 100% proof that we suffer from lyme, in the sense that health insurances will COVER our lyme treatment.

Not here in Europe.

You can show healthy insurances positive PCRs for Bb, first they had no idea what that was, then they said for lyme, they only accept Elisa and Westernblot.

So here, no way, PCRs are not taken as proof that a guy has lyme, not that I know.

And of course, insurance will cover only for short term treatment, for acute lyme disease, not for chronic lyme treatment.

I just wanted to know what's the situation in the USA or Canada.

Anyone knows?

Posts: 6196 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Brussels
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No one?
Posts: 6196 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Bartenderbonnie
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CDC guidelines for diagnosising Lyme disease is the 2 tier ELSIA and Western Blot;
https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/diagnosistesting/index.html

CDC does not recommend these tests:
https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/diagnosistesting/labtest/otherlab/index.html

PCR'S are not recommended for diagnosis of Lyme Disease per the CDC;
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/764501?src=par_cdc_stm_mscpedt&faf=1

First the CDC states that PCR testing is not sensitive enough.
Then they say it cannot distinguish between active or previous infection.
Of coarse they say it's not cost effective- too expensive.

From the words of CDC's Dr Paul Mead;
"Where disease is rare...
Positives mostly deceive...
Even with good tests."

First, Lyme disease is not rare, it is the #1 vector borne disease.
Second, positives are MOSTLY positive.
Third, we don't have good tests because the CDC won't approve them!

This is what Lyme patients have had to deal with since 1994.

Here is Lorraine Johnson on how to fight for treatment for Lyme Disease when insurance companies deny coverage;
https://www.lymedisease.org/TheLymeTimes-I39-4/files/assets/common/downloads/LymeTimes39_4.pdf

Here in the U.S., we have some states that provide LLMD's protection to treat how they choose. If a LLMD prescripes antibiotics, most insurances will provide coverage. An LLMD is essential in all aspects.

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Brussels
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Bonnie! Thank you!

I got why PCRs are not used for lyme.


There are 2 reasons:

reason 1: Because of LABORATORY CONTAMINATION due to high sensitivity of PCRs that can lead to FALSE POSITIVES for Bb.

reason 2: PCR testing cannot distinguish between Living and Dead organisms.

This is here in one of your links above:
"Nevertheless, PCR testing has limitations as well. For example, DNA testing does not distinguish between living and dead organisms, and laboratory contamination with amplified DNA poses a risk for false-positive results. This leads to the question. is PCR useful for the diagnosis of Lyme disease? In general, the answer is no."

Posts: 6196 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Brussels
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Well, well, a few comments regarding Covid PCR tests.

1- PCR is the MAIN test used to count ACTIVE CASES of Covid all over the world.

2- how can they know the virus is dead or alive? They don't, but they count as ALIVE, otherwise, you don't have an ACTIVE CASE.

3- all measures governments are doing to us (quarantine, physical distance, masks, travel and movement restrictions, how many people are we allowed to meet, visits to care homes allowed or not, masks in schools, schools closures, masks on the streets etc), all these measures come due to COUNTING OF POSITIVE CASES through positive PCRs!!

4- They can't even know whether the samples were contaminated.
Have you seen videos or photos of Covid testing labs?
They put dozens of samples inside ONE plastic bag!
All those hundreds tubes are all packed together in the same refrigerator.

Same lab person will test several tubes at once, touching test tubes one after the other, as some labs are dealing with thousands of tests per day.

5- They don't even know if the person is having dead fragments of SarsCov2, because the person already fought the virus, even assymptomatic, and the virus died... or if the person has active infection.....

But as his/ her PCR is positive, the person becomes an ACTIVE CASE!!

6- the reason why a positive PCR for Borrelia is not necessarily a proof the person has lyme because they don't know if Borrelia is dead or alive through PCR. So no diagnosis.

And because, they don't know if there was a LABORATORY contamination and the test came positive due to high sensitivity.

So we, lyme patients, get no POSITIVE diagnosis for lyme EVEN IF our PCR is positive.

But for Covid, yes, they all get positive diagnosis through PCR.

why no one in the lyme community talks about that?

Posts: 6196 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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