Phoiph
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posted
People with Lyme can contribute to the information base by taking the survey on Dr. Cameron's website:
"You are invited to share your experience with Lyme disease if you are at least 12 years of age and if:
You have had COVID-19 You have had the COVID-19 vaccine You have had neither COVID-19 nor the COVID-19 vaccine Your experience will help others living with Lyme disease in a COVID-19 Pandemic."
Additional posts re personal experiences with Lyme and the "vaccine" can be found by scrolling down on the survey page.
I am not sure there is anything scary or surprising there.
i will try to explain why
- we know Lyme causes flares of symptoms - and new symptoms occurring spontaneously anyway
- we also know - that for understandable reasons - people with lyme often have a kind of heightened fear of health issues/ symptoms worsening - leading to a high potential for the very real placebo effect to cause both worsening of symptoms after vaccine - and the patient to in any case attribute any worsening to the vaccine - for some just the worry and fear about ill effects from the vaccine will be enough to precipitate real increases in symptoms esp. in the light of so much polarisation in the health sphere and internet around vaccine risks.
- and of course people with lyme have disturbed immune systems and so we should not be surprised if some of them have stronger reactions to a vaccine of any type - after all we are supposed to have a reaction to a vaccine - its part of how it works - and if your immune system is already on overdrive it will not be a big surprise if you get some effects that are at the upper end of the range expected
in the end we have no way of knowing if people who report really severe adverse effects after a vaccination - are having those due to the vaccine at all - after all the disease is known for relapsing and remitting and sudden worsening for no obvious reason.
and against this we also have to balance the fact that people who respond adversely to tiny amounts of antigenic substances from vaccination are at very much increased risk to getting even more immune disturbance from an actual Sars-Cov2 infection. not to mention the risk of life changing long COVID
so i think we all have to be careful of jumping on the fear wagon and joining a bunch of dots that do not necessarily belong joined up.
bear in mind also - there are a lot of people riding this fear wagon for their own benefit - self promotion and notoriety
social media platforms also thrive on fear, outrage and conspiracy theories - as it keeps people clicking better than anything else, and ultimately that's what drives their profits. They have absolutely no interest in a balanced fact based debate.
Posts: 245 | From UK | Registered: Feb 2020
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Phoiph
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posted
garz,
I appreciate your explanation/opinion, and agree that people with Lyme are more sensitive and prone to inflammatory reactions. Therein lies the concern.
At the end of the day, numerous people with Lyme have reported severe symptoms/relapse after the vaccine; even those that had been doing well for some time.
I find that very concerning, for whatever reason it happens, and I am grateful for the people who left the comments warning others (especially because we are not hearing the full story on adverse reactions in the media, and it is way too early to gauge long-term effects anyway).
It may or may not be a risk that people want to take, but at least they are better informed by reading other's experiences. It is an individual choice.
Posts: 1962 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
What is lacking to make that article well rounded is noting how many LD patients who got covid-19 have died. They aren't leaving comments on blogs.
It's well known that the vaccine, any vaccine really, is going to cause problems with a number of those who get it.
I haven't had a vaccine in many years. The risk of getting sick from the vaccine, as opposed to dying, changed my mind on this one.
I had a few days of more fatigue and headaches, then recovered to my original level of illness.
This coronavirus is serious--it has now killed more than the historic influenza of 1918-1919.
It would be good to have statistics on those with lyme disease who get vaccinated, or don't--and get ill with the virus.
One thing is clear, those who are healthy are much better off getting the vaccine.
Why not ask a nurse, or anyone who works in any hospital today, what their observations are on this issue? They don't wonder.
Posts: 555 | From New Mexico, USA | Registered: May 2007
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Phoiph
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posted
Unfortunately, I don't believe it is clear at all that those who are healthy are better off getting the vaccine. We aren't privy to all of the data, nor do we have any idea of long term effects.
Regarding asking a nurse, there are many health care workers who are not taking the "vaccine"; I know of a number personally.
To be clear, I am not advocating either way, as I feel it should be a personal (informed) choice. Just sharing what I consider important feedback from actual Lyme patients in the form of their commentary.
Posts: 1962 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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Phoiph
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posted
I appreciate this discussion...I think it is a conversation that needs to happen.
Posts: 1962 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Nurses have seen what happens to covid patients, too.
Currently in my county 82% of those hospitalized with covid are unvaccinated. 83% of ICU covid patients are unvaccinated. 100% of those on ventilators are unvaccinated.
No, the vaccine isn’t perfect but there are two sides to every story.
Consult your doctor about whether to get vaccinated or not. Get the facts about your area and covid statistics.
Stay safe. 😃
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 9333 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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Phoiph
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Member # 41238
posted
Here is another perspective to ponder on how the statistics are calculated and reported:
posted
Considering the Project Veritas report, ALL reporting of deaths & reactions to the injections are questionable and should not be believed at face value. The entire system and those involved in it should be thoroughly investigated and the situation remedied immediately!
Your Body, Your Choice!
Posts: 487 | From Texas | Registered: Jun 2021
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posted
Thank you for sharing the survey. I filled it out.
I hope that some of the other late-stage, Lyme patients will do so also. I suspect based upon volunteer contributions, it may skew more heavily to those who have had difficulties with the vaccines.
Beyond the normal, short lived immune response, my family, including 3 Lyme patients, have all done really well with the mRNA vaccines.
My elderly parents are 84 and 85 and they both have had Moderna vaccines and the 3rd/booster vaccine without any problems.
It was an easier decision for myself and my family because we buried a family member to Covid 19 last year.
I was still really nervous, but everything went great and I'm healthier than I've ever been.
Posts: 487 | From USA | Registered: Feb 2002
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I appreciate your explanation/opinion, and agree that people with Lyme are more sensitive and prone to inflammatory reactions. Therein lies the concern.
yes i know its a concern - but there are no risk/concern free options here, so its about weighing the pro's and con's of each choice in a balanced way. in this case, if a person is going to react so much to a small amount of spike protein or antigen in a vaccine - how much more are they likely to react to an actual SARSCov2 infection - which will fill them with 1000x more of that same protein / antigen.
I should add I am not vaccinated yet, so am not in the rabid yes camp or no camp - i'm recovering from lyme and about 50% recovered now so i feel the more well I am before the vaccine the better
my exposure to COVID is generally low as i live like a hermit and that is part of my calculation also -
so while its a risk to go unvaccinated, the longer i go the better my general health is and hopefully the lower my risk of adverse effects
this also gives time for finding more information on it / more studies to come out. eg effects in people with Lyme like the one in the OP.
at least thats how i am looking at it.
Posts: 245 | From UK | Registered: Feb 2020
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Phoiph
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Garz: ...in this case, if a person is going to react so much to a small amount of spike protein or antigen in a vaccine - how much more are they likely to react to an actual SARSCov2 infection - which will fill them with 1000x more of that same protein / antigen...
I would agree if this were a traditional vaccine, where a small amount of the inactivated virus is introduced to allow the body to mount a response.
mRNA therapy has a completely different mechanism of action, where it tricks your body's cells to replicate spike proteins. Some doctors and researchers believe this is producing severe inflammatory and autoimmune (and other) reactions in certain people.
A vaccine trial is usually stopped after 8 or 10 adverse reactions. There have been thousands of adverse reactions with the mRNA vaccine, and with the manufacturers released from liability, and information being censored, who is protecting the consumer?
The plan to roll out booster after booster is already in the works...is that not concerning?
Posts: 1962 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
i agree it is a concern - but one we are not currently easily able to quantify the risks or likelihoods very well.
however - one thing is pretty clear - the risks of COVID itself are much greater - especially in an already chronically ill community.
Posts: 245 | From UK | Registered: Feb 2020
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Phoiph
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posted
Also concerning is the lack of emphasis on prevention and treatment.
A number of doctors have had great success treating Covid in their practices and tried to share their methodology, only to be warned and/or shut down and discredited.
Which raises the question...If humanity's best interest was in mind, in a health crisis such as this, WHY would any promising treatment be discouraged to the point of censorship?
This has unfairly narrowed access to options and choices, and put many individuals between a rock and a hard place...having to choose what they consider the lesser of 2 possible evils...
Posts: 1962 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
My friend from UK says there are 8 spaces on her health card reserved for covid boosters. Wonder how many will be enough?
Posts: 487 | From Texas | Registered: Jun 2021
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quote:Originally posted by norin: My friend from UK says there are 8 spaces on her health card reserved for covid boosters. Wonder how many will be enough?
Never will be enough.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96238 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Well, my vaccine card only has 4 spaces for boosters.
Covid may end up being like the flu eventually where they recommend a booster every year. I don’t get the flu shot.
And if we get to that point it means that the variants are fewer or less dangerous. Remember this disease is still new to the world and you can’t expect scientists to know everything right now.
Just because some people are getting boosters doesn’t mean the vaccine is ineffective.
The nursing home at my mom’s retirement center got vaccinated in January and then opened to visitors. Between the end of January and midSeptember they had no cases of covid which shows the vaccine worked.
But now there are breakthrough cases because of the delta variant. Elderly don’t have as good as immune systems as younger people so it makes sense they need boosters.
Did you get the DPT shot when you were young? It requires a booster when you are older.
Older people often get pneumonia vaccine. It requires a booster every year.
700,000 Americans have died iof Covid? How many have died from the vaccine? 5 million in the world have died from Covid? Which is safer—Covid or the vaccine?
Each person should talk to their doctor about their decision whether or not to get vaccinated.
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 9333 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Also, they are now running double blind studies on ivermectin.
Merck has put out a new drug seeking FDA emergency approval that reduces risk of hospitalization and death from COVID-19.
Prevention is obvious. Wear a mask in indoor public places and don’t get too close to people.
A study of school districts in AZ just showed that schools that have mask mandates have almost 4 times fewer Covid cases than schools who don’t have a mask mandate or didn’t start the school year with a mask mandate.
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 9333 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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map1131
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Member # 2022
posted
News FLASH Hiker...
that new drug is Ivermectin being renamed by Merck.
I'm sick and tired of fricking games being played by pharma, medical establishment, CDC, NIH, AMA, Powers that be currently trying to control American lives. They are LIARS and THIEVES!
For any Lyme sufferer to fall for one word that Fauci and his establishment have said in the last 19 months....is beyond me. Fauci was part of creating this virus. He used our tax dollars to do it.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6487 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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Phoiph
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posted
Commentary on that same subject (ivermectin vs. "new" drug by Merke) written by a physician:
It's just unbelievable what the American people are being told.
The TRUTH will be made known, believe me.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96238 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Phoiph
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posted
I'm quite surprised when those who have already suffered severe injury due to "Lyme denial" are not more skeptical of the narrative coming from those same entities.
Posts: 1962 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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One of my skepticisms is the author of the editorials in the Desert Review (that Lymetoo gave us links for) is a doctor who won’t even give his real name. Dr. Joshua Hope is a pseudonym that he uses for his articles and books.
I don’t think it is right for doctors and scientists to use pseudonyms in materials they author. Pseudonyms are for authors who write fiction.
I totally agree the CDC and others got it wrong about Lyme although when I first contracted Lyme I wasn’t paying any attention to the CDC. I was more concerned that my local doctors wouldn’t even test for me for Lyme.
But I am probably not going to continue to post on this thread anymore. It has just become an argument between those who believe in the covid vaccine and those who don’t.
If you don’t want the vaccine at least be smart enough to wear a mask in public or do you think that is some sort of conspiracy, too?
Be safe.
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 9333 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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Phoiph
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posted
hiker53,
I am sorry you feel this discussion has become an argument...I see it as a healthy, much needed debate, and I appreciate hearing all sides.
It is not that I don't believe in vaccinations or masks. I simply believe that we are not hearing the whole truth from the mainstream media, and therefore are unable to make fully informed personal decisions.
I am also skeptical about the motives of those (who are making billions and have no liability) pursuing an agenda that seeks to mandate an experimental medical intervention, or face potential loss of one's rights and freedoms.
I believe this should concern any American, no matter what their personal choice may be.
Posts: 1962 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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How does the Merck COVID-19 pill work? Antivirals stop the replication process so the illness doesn't progress. The Merck drug works by introducing RNA-like building blocks into the virus's genome as it multiplies, which creates numerous mutations, disrupts replication, and kills the virus.
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 9333 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
My "old" drugs range from $3 - $15 for a 90 day supply. I can afford that and after being in the market for close to 20 years, I feel a bit more confident that the side effects are known well enough. Not so with any of the Covid jabs and I am not anti-vaxx; the Tetanus booster has probably saved me a world of hurt in the past. As for the Flu shot, I have not had one in over 30 years and have not gotten Flu in that time and am around people from all over the world.
I do agree that there are many who don't have the insurance that I do now and I have paid out-of-pocket years ago for Lyme tx and it breaks you; it really does.
That being said, I will not take the jab and will not be slave to a mask. If people are so afraid of getting infected, let them take the jab and wear a mask.
Posts: 487 | From Texas | Registered: Jun 2021
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Bartenderbonnie
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posted
norin
We all need to CARE enough about each other and not have an issue in doing so.
The vaccinated population and the masked population are not a threat to the un-vaccinated population and the un-masked population.
The un-vaccinated population and the unmasked population are a threat to ALL because they are a willing disease vector.
Why is it always the opposite with you?
You could literally kill me, as I have no immune system and the vaccine won’t work in my body. If you cough or sneeze, your germs could infect others. Vaccines aren’t 100% and masks aren’t 100% and nothing in life is 100%.
We must ALL be a good global citizen.
Schools are a melting pot of transmissible infections. Therefore it would be reasonable for children to wear a mask during a pandemic. Children are directly connected to transmissions in the homes, offices, factories, stores, etc.
Parents make the tough choice to mask their children to save others. They end up getting harassed causing their children to cry and be scared. How is this ok?
posted
Bartenderbonnie, I disagree with you. Why is it always the opposite with YOU? Just leave me alone. I'm entitled to my opinion and don't give a whack about Tucker Carlson. Bye!
Posts: 487 | From Texas | Registered: Jun 2021
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Phoiph
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posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bartenderbonnie:
"...The vaccinated population and the masked population are not a threat to the un-vaccinated population and the un-masked population.
The un-vaccinated population and the unmasked population are a threat to ALL because they are a willing disease vector..."
Bartender Bonnie, please explain.
The "vaccine" does not propose to prevent infection or transmission of Covid-19, it only prevents severe disease in some people.
In addition, I read a study recently which found that vaccinated and unvaccinated people who are infected carry the same amount of virus in their nasal passages, so are equally contagious.
So....how are the "vaccinated" not a threat to the "unvaccinated", and the "unvaccinated" a "willing disease vector and a threat to all"?
Both vaccinated and unvaccinated people can spread Covid.
Posts: 1962 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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It does say other studies got different results and it also emphasizes viral loads in kids can be very high so that implies testing and mask wearing are important.
And looking at hospital statistics and recent covid deaths, more are among the unvaccinated.
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 9333 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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Bartenderbonnie
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posted
I agree with you Phoiph on the vaccine does not prevent infection or transmission, it only prevents severe disease in some.
Most people would not like severe disease or death so they get vaccinated
While the vaccine is not 100%, there are breakthrough cases. I read the study you mentioned. It was based on vaccinated breakthrough cases and unvaccinated case so I also agree with you.
My post said the vaccinated AND masked population. I have not read of one positive case in the vaccinated and masked population.
I also posted about children wearing a mask. The science says children fare better, asymptotic but contribute to transmissions.
Life is so,precious. I don’t understand why wearing a mask is so hard for some?
Posts: 3058 | From Florida | Registered: Nov 2016
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I can’t quite understand why mask wearing is such a big deal for some.
Don’t surgeons wear masks when they perform surgery on you? And why is that? To cut down on spread of germs.
Am not bullying you—just trying to understand.
To me mask wearing is like wearing a seat belt or driving in the correct lane to avoid a head on collision. Or stopping at a red light. Very simple and I assume these laws don’t infringe on your rights.
And I quite agree with you, Norin, on the flu vaccine.
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 9333 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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Phoiph
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Member # 41238
posted
Well, my question was not about masks...that is another variable in the equation.
It was about the belief...by many...that unvaccinated people are THE threat, and vaccinated people are not.
Besides creating dissention between the two sides, this misconception actually gives a false sense of security to vaccinated people, many of whom don't take precautions as they believe they are immune, and of no threat to others.
Unfortunately, we are unlikely to get to "herd immunity" with a vaccine that doesn't prevent infection or spread, and as a result creates evolutionary pressure on the virus to create mutations.
BTW...I am not anti-vax; I believe in informed personal choice.
Posts: 1962 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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Bartenderbonnie
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Once again, I agree with you. The vaccinated can get a breakthrough infection and they do have a false sense of security.
Thats why I’m so dedicated to mask wearing.
I know your question wasn’t about a mask. But my original post was about a vaccination AND a mask.
I have answered all of your questions. Can you answer one of mine?
Do you think it’s ok for the anti-maskers and anti-vaxers to harass parents and children walking to school wearing a mask, like in my above videos.
Posts: 3058 | From Florida | Registered: Nov 2016
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The vaccine worked just fine until the delta variant came along. Perhaps if more people had gotten vaccinated earlier and in other parts of the world there would not be these more contagious variants. Guess we will never know.
Some studies have shown that vaccinated people who get covid are contagious for fewer days than unvaccinated who get covid.
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