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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » FYI: Lyme Patients Report Reactions to Covid "Vaccine"

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Author Topic: FYI: Lyme Patients Report Reactions to Covid "Vaccine"
Phoiph
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FYI: An informative review of people's personal experiences with Lyme and Covid "vaccine" reactions. Scroll down to blog section:

https://danielcameronmd.com/opinion-low-covid-19-vaccine-trust-among-lyme-disease-patients/

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hiker53
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Thanks, Phoiph.

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Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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Carol in PA
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Everyone with Lyme needs to read this.
Not the article, which said nothing new, but the comments.


I am horrified by the reactions some are reporting.

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Phoiph
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Agreed, Carol!
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Phoiph
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People with Lyme can contribute to the information base by taking the survey on Dr. Cameron's website:

"You are invited to share your experience with Lyme disease if you are at least 12 years of age and if:

You have had COVID-19
You have had the COVID-19 vaccine
You have had neither COVID-19 nor the COVID-19 vaccine
Your experience will help others living with Lyme disease in a COVID-19 Pandemic."


Additional posts re personal experiences with Lyme and the "vaccine" can be found by scrolling down on the survey page.

https://danielcameronmd.com/lyme-disease-covid-survey/

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Lymetoo
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Very frightening, Carol.

https://www.redvoicemedia.com/2021/09/nurse-what-im-seeing-is-criminal/?fbclid=IwAR19LWgZqIhdpeCnQ33Bblr60fpOO89Nt6vk7MyZpnSlSqt1B0DgG7ZpVu8

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MannaMe
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That is scary!!
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hiker53
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https://podtail.com/en/podcast/the-stew-peters-show/covid-hoax-ended-virus-cannot-be-located-foia-resp/

Stew Peters who hosted the nurse is someone who claims covid is a hoax.

Why would you believe anyone who appears on his show?

677,000 covid deaths in USA now and lots of long haulers. That is what is scary.

That being said I am sure some people have negative reactions to any vaccine. Talk to your doctor rather than rely on social media, please.

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Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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Bartenderbonnie
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Please please please. . .

If you choose to not get vaccinated, wear a mask!

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/effective-masks.html

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Garz
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I read a number of the comments

I am not sure there is anything scary or surprising there.

i will try to explain why

- we know Lyme causes flares of symptoms - and new symptoms occurring spontaneously anyway

- we also know - that for understandable reasons - people with lyme often have a kind of heightened fear of health issues/ symptoms worsening - leading to a high potential for the very real placebo effect to cause both worsening of symptoms after vaccine - and the patient to in any case attribute any worsening to the vaccine - for some just the worry and fear about ill effects from the vaccine will be enough to precipitate real increases in symptoms esp. in the light of so much polarisation in the health sphere and internet around vaccine risks.

- and of course people with lyme have disturbed immune systems and so we should not be surprised if some of them have stronger reactions to a vaccine of any type - after all we are supposed to have a reaction to a vaccine - its part of how it works - and if your immune system is already on overdrive it will not be a big surprise if you get some effects that are at the upper end of the range expected

in the end we have no way of knowing if people who report really severe adverse effects after a vaccination - are having those due to the vaccine at all - after all the disease is known for relapsing and remitting and sudden worsening for no obvious reason.

and against this we also have to balance the fact that people who respond adversely to tiny amounts of antigenic substances from vaccination are at very much increased risk to getting even more immune disturbance from an actual Sars-Cov2 infection. not to mention the risk of life changing long COVID

so i think we all have to be careful of jumping on the fear wagon and joining a bunch of dots that do not necessarily belong joined up.

bear in mind also - there are a lot of people riding this fear wagon for their own benefit - self promotion and notoriety

social media platforms also thrive on fear, outrage and conspiracy theories - as it keeps people clicking better than anything else, and ultimately that's what drives their profits. They have absolutely no interest in a balanced fact based debate.

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Phoiph
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garz,

I appreciate your explanation/opinion, and agree that people with Lyme are more sensitive and prone to inflammatory reactions. Therein lies the concern.

At the end of the day, numerous people with Lyme have reported severe symptoms/relapse after the vaccine; even those that had been doing well for some time.

I find that very concerning, for whatever reason it happens, and I am grateful for the people who left the comments warning others (especially because we are not hearing the full story on adverse reactions in the media, and it is way too early to gauge long-term effects anyway).

It may or may not be a risk that people want to take, but at least they are better informed by reading other's experiences. It is an individual choice.

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daisys
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What is lacking to make that article well rounded is noting how many LD patients who got covid-19 have died. They aren't leaving comments on blogs.

It's well known that the vaccine, any vaccine really, is going to cause problems with a number of those who get it.

I haven't had a vaccine in many years. The risk of getting sick from the vaccine, as opposed to dying, changed my mind on this one.

I had a few days of more fatigue and headaches, then recovered to my original level of illness.

This coronavirus is serious--it has now killed more than the historic influenza of 1918-1919.

It would be good to have statistics on those with lyme disease who get vaccinated, or don't--and get ill with the virus.

One thing is clear, those who are healthy are much better off getting the vaccine.

Why not ask a nurse, or anyone who works in any hospital today, what their observations are on this issue? They don't wonder.

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Phoiph
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Unfortunately, I don't believe it is clear at all that those who are healthy are better off getting the vaccine. We aren't privy to all of the data, nor do we have any idea of long term effects.

Regarding asking a nurse, there are many health care workers who are not taking the "vaccine"; I know of a number personally.

To be clear, I am not advocating either way, as I feel it should be a personal (informed) choice. Just sharing what I consider important feedback from actual Lyme patients in the form of their commentary.

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Phoiph
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I appreciate this discussion...I think it is a conversation that needs to happen.
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Lymetoo
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Nurses have SEEN what happens to some of the vaccinated.

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--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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hiker53
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Nurses have seen what happens to covid patients, too.

Currently in my county 82% of those hospitalized with covid are unvaccinated. 83% of ICU covid patients are unvaccinated. 100% of those on ventilators are unvaccinated.

No, the vaccine isn’t perfect but there are two sides to every story.

Consult your doctor about whether to get vaccinated or not. Get the facts about your area and covid statistics.

Stay safe. 😃

--------------------
Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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Phoiph
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Here is another perspective to ponder on how the statistics are calculated and reported:

https://www.cities929.com/2021/09/16/op-ed-by-dr-joeseph-mercola/

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norin
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Considering the Project Veritas report, ALL reporting of deaths & reactions to the injections are questionable and should not be believed at face value. The entire system and those involved in it should be thoroughly investigated and the situation remedied immediately!

Your Body, Your Choice!

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Lonestartick
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Thank you for sharing the survey. I filled it out.

I hope that some of the other late-stage, Lyme patients will do so also. I suspect based upon volunteer contributions, it may skew more heavily to those who have had difficulties with the vaccines.

Beyond the normal, short lived immune response, my family, including 3 Lyme patients, have all done really well with the mRNA vaccines.

My elderly parents are 84 and 85 and they both have had Moderna vaccines and the 3rd/booster vaccine without any problems.

It was an easier decision for myself and my family because we buried a family member to Covid 19 last year.

I was still really nervous, but everything went great and I'm healthier than I've ever been.

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norin
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It's good to hear from you, Lonestartick!
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Garz
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quote:
Originally posted by Phoiph:
garz,

I appreciate your explanation/opinion, and agree that people with Lyme are more sensitive and prone to inflammatory reactions. Therein lies the concern.


yes i know its a concern - but there are no risk/concern free options here, so its about weighing the pro's and con's of each choice in a balanced way.
in this case, if a person is going to react so much to a small amount of spike protein or antigen in a vaccine - how much more are they likely to react to an actual SARSCov2 infection - which will fill them with 1000x more of that same protein / antigen.

I should add I am not vaccinated yet, so am not in the rabid yes camp or no camp - i'm recovering from lyme and about 50% recovered now so i feel the more well I am before the vaccine the better

my exposure to COVID is generally low as i live like a hermit and that is part of my calculation also -

so while its a risk to go unvaccinated, the longer i go the better my general health is and hopefully the lower my risk of adverse effects

this also gives time for finding more information on it / more studies to come out. eg effects in people with Lyme like the one in the OP.

at least thats how i am looking at it.

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Phoiph
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quote:
Originally posted by Garz:
...in this case, if a person is going to react so much to a small amount of spike protein or antigen in a vaccine - how much more are they likely to react to an actual SARSCov2 infection - which will fill them with 1000x more of that same protein / antigen...

I would agree if this were a traditional vaccine, where a small amount of the inactivated virus is introduced to allow the body to mount a response.

mRNA therapy has a completely different mechanism of action, where it tricks your body's cells to replicate spike proteins. Some doctors and researchers believe this is producing severe inflammatory and autoimmune (and other) reactions in certain people.

A vaccine trial is usually stopped after 8 or 10 adverse reactions. There have been thousands of adverse reactions with the mRNA vaccine, and with the manufacturers released from liability, and information being censored, who is protecting the consumer?

The plan to roll out booster after booster is already in the works...is that not concerning?

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Garz
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i agree it is a concern - but one we are not currently easily able to quantify the risks or likelihoods very well.


however - one thing is pretty clear - the risks of COVID itself are much greater - especially in an already chronically ill community.

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Phoiph
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Also concerning is the lack of emphasis on prevention and treatment.

A number of doctors have had great success treating Covid in their practices and tried to share their methodology, only to be warned and/or shut down and discredited.

Which raises the question...If humanity's best interest was in mind, in a health crisis such as this, WHY would any promising treatment be discouraged to the point of censorship?

This has unfairly narrowed access to options and choices, and put many individuals between a rock and a hard place...having to choose what they consider the lesser of 2 possible evils...

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norin
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My friend from UK says there are 8 spaces on her health card reserved for covid boosters. Wonder how many will be enough?
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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by norin:
My friend from UK says there are 8 spaces on her health card reserved for covid boosters. Wonder how many will be enough?

Never will be enough. [rant] [shake]

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Opinions, not medical advice!

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hiker53
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Well, my vaccine card only has 4 spaces for boosters.

Covid may end up being like the flu eventually where they recommend a booster every year. I don’t get the flu shot.

And if we get to that point it means that the variants are fewer or less dangerous. Remember this disease is still new to the world and you can’t expect scientists to know everything right now.

Just because some people are getting boosters doesn’t mean the vaccine is ineffective.

The nursing home at my mom’s retirement center got vaccinated in January and then opened to visitors. Between the end of January and midSeptember they had no cases of covid which shows the vaccine worked.

But now there are breakthrough cases because of the delta variant. Elderly don’t have as good as immune systems as younger people so it makes sense they need boosters.

Did you get the DPT shot when you were young? It requires a booster when you are older.

Older people often get pneumonia vaccine. It requires a booster every year.

700,000 Americans have died iof Covid? How many have died from the vaccine? 5 million in the world have died from Covid? Which is safer—Covid or the vaccine?

Each person should talk to their doctor about their decision whether or not to get vaccinated.

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Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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hiker53
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Also, they are now running double blind studies on ivermectin.

Merck has put out a new drug seeking FDA emergency approval that reduces risk of hospitalization and death from COVID-19.

Prevention is obvious. Wear a mask in indoor public places and don’t get too close to people.

A study of school districts in AZ just showed that schools that have mask mandates have almost 4 times fewer Covid cases than schools who don’t have a mask mandate or didn’t start the school year with a mask mandate.

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Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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map1131
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News FLASH Hiker...

that new drug is Ivermectin being renamed by Merck.

I'm sick and tired of fricking games being played by pharma, medical establishment, CDC, NIH, AMA, Powers that be currently trying to control American lives. They are LIARS and THIEVES!

For any Lyme sufferer to fall for one word that Fauci and his establishment have said in the last 19 months....is beyond me. Fauci was part of creating this virus. He used our tax dollars to do it.

Pam

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"Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill

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Phoiph
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Commentary on that same subject (ivermectin vs. "new" drug by Merke) written by a physician:

https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion/columnists/the-great-ivermectin-deworming-hoax/article_19b8f2a6-0f29-11ec-94c1-4725bf4978c6.html

Part 2: https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion/columnists/the-ivermectin-deworming-hoax---part-ii-eric-clapton-s-human-rights-warning/article_284902bc-14be-11ec-8d43-43e98275cff8.html

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Lymetoo
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( SIGH )

It's just unbelievable what the American people are being told.

The TRUTH will be made known, believe me.

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--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Phoiph
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I'm quite surprised when those who have already suffered severe injury due to "Lyme denial" are not more skeptical of the narrative coming from those same entities.
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hiker53
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Actually I am pretty skeptical by nature.

One of my skepticisms is the author of the editorials in the Desert Review (that Lymetoo gave us links for) is a doctor who won’t even give his real name. Dr. Joshua Hope is a pseudonym that he uses for his articles and books.

I don’t think it is right for doctors and scientists to use pseudonyms in materials they author. Pseudonyms are for authors who write fiction.

I totally agree the CDC and others got it wrong about Lyme although when I first contracted Lyme I wasn’t paying any attention to the CDC. I was more concerned that my local doctors wouldn’t even test for me for Lyme.

But I am probably not going to continue to post on this thread anymore. It has just become an argument between those who believe in the covid vaccine and those who don’t.

If you don’t want the vaccine at least be smart enough to wear a mask in public or do you think that is some sort of conspiracy, too?

Be safe.

--------------------
Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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Phoiph
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hiker53,

I am sorry you feel this discussion has become an argument...I see it as a healthy, much needed debate, and I appreciate hearing all sides.

It is not that I don't believe in vaccinations or masks. I simply believe that we are not hearing the whole truth from the mainstream media, and therefore are unable to make fully informed personal decisions.

I am also skeptical about the motives of those (who are making billions and have no liability) pursuing an agenda that seeks to mandate an experimental medical intervention, or face potential loss of one's rights and freedoms.

I believe this should concern any American, no matter what their personal choice may be.

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Lymetoo
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I apologize for posting a weak video way back.

There are plenty of good ones in Off Topic.

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--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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hiker53
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For Map1131 Mercks new drug is not a renamed ivermectin. Works by a totally different mechanism.

But very expensive. New drugs are always way too expensive (Heck old drugs are way too expensive!)

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/01/business/merck-covid-pill-molnupiravir.html

How does the Merck COVID-19 pill work?
Antivirals stop the replication process so the illness doesn't progress. The Merck drug works by introducing RNA-like building blocks into the virus's genome as it multiplies, which creates numerous mutations, disrupts replication, and kills the virus.

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Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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norin
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My "old" drugs range from $3 - $15 for a 90 day supply. I can afford that and after being in the market for close to 20 years, I feel a bit more confident that the side effects are known well enough. Not so with any of the Covid jabs and I am not anti-vaxx; the Tetanus booster has probably saved me a world of hurt in the past. As for the Flu shot, I have not had one in over 30 years and have not gotten Flu in that time and am around people from all over the world.

I do agree that there are many who don't have the insurance that I do now and I have paid out-of-pocket years ago for Lyme tx and it breaks you; it really does.

That being said, I will not take the jab and will not be slave to a mask. If people are so afraid of getting infected, let them take the jab and wear a mask.

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Bartenderbonnie
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norin

We all need to CARE enough about each other and not have an issue in doing so.

The vaccinated population and the masked population are not a threat to the un-vaccinated population and the un-masked population.

The un-vaccinated population and the unmasked population are a threat to ALL because they are a willing disease vector.

Why is it always the opposite with you?

You could literally kill me, as I have no immune system and the vaccine won’t work in my body. If you cough or sneeze, your germs could infect others. Vaccines aren’t 100% and masks aren’t 100% and nothing in life is 100%.

We must ALL be a good global citizen.

Schools are a melting pot of transmissible infections. Therefore it would be reasonable for children to wear a mask during a pandemic. Children are directly connected to transmissions in the homes, offices, factories, stores, etc.

Parents make the tough choice to mask their children to save others. They end up getting harassed causing their children to cry and be scared. How is this ok?

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/tucker-carlson-anti-maskers-harassing-children-schools-1238078/

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norin
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Bartenderbonnie, I disagree with you. Why is it always the opposite with YOU? Just leave me alone. I'm entitled to my opinion and don't give a whack about Tucker Carlson. Bye!
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Phoiph
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bartenderbonnie:


"...The vaccinated population and the masked population are not a threat to the un-vaccinated population and the un-masked population.

The un-vaccinated population and the unmasked population are a threat to ALL because they are a willing disease vector..."


Bartender Bonnie, please explain.

The "vaccine" does not propose to prevent infection or transmission of Covid-19, it only prevents severe disease in some people.

In addition, I read a study recently which found that vaccinated and unvaccinated people who are infected carry the same amount of virus in their nasal passages, so are equally contagious.

So....how are the "vaccinated" not a threat to the "unvaccinated", and the "unvaccinated" a "willing disease vector and a threat to all"?

Both vaccinated and unvaccinated people can spread Covid.

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hiker53
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Phoiph, is this the study you are referring to?

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20211001/Similar-viral-load-in-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-individuals-infected-with-SARS-CoV-2-Delta-variant.aspx

It does say other studies got different results and it also emphasizes viral loads in kids can be very high so that implies testing and mask wearing are important.

And looking at hospital statistics and recent covid deaths, more are among the unvaccinated.

--------------------
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"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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Bartenderbonnie
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I agree with you Phoiph on the vaccine does not prevent infection or transmission, it only prevents severe disease in some.

Most people would not like severe disease or death so they get vaccinated

While the vaccine is not 100%, there are breakthrough cases.
I read the study you mentioned. It was based on vaccinated breakthrough cases and unvaccinated case so I also agree with you.

My post said the vaccinated AND masked population.
I have not read of one positive case in the vaccinated and masked population.

I also posted about children wearing a mask.
The science says children fare better, asymptotic but contribute to transmissions.

Life is so,precious. I don’t understand why wearing a mask is so hard for some?

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hiker53
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Norin,

I can’t quite understand why mask wearing is such a big deal for some.

Don’t surgeons wear masks when they perform surgery on you? And why is that? To cut down on spread of germs.

Am not bullying you—just trying to understand.

To me mask wearing is like wearing a seat belt or driving in the correct lane to avoid a head on collision. Or stopping at a red light. Very simple and I assume these laws don’t infringe on your rights.

And I quite agree with you, Norin, on the flu vaccine.

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Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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Phoiph
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Well, my question was not about masks...that is another variable in the equation.

It was about the belief...by many...that unvaccinated people are THE threat, and vaccinated people are not.

Besides creating dissention between the two sides, this misconception actually gives a false sense of security to vaccinated people, many of whom don't take precautions as they believe they are immune, and of no threat to others.

Unfortunately, we are unlikely to get to "herd immunity" with a vaccine that doesn't prevent infection or spread, and as a result creates evolutionary pressure on the virus to create mutations.

BTW...I am not anti-vax; I believe in informed personal choice.

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Bartenderbonnie
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Once again, I agree with you. The vaccinated can get a breakthrough infection and they do have a false sense of security.

Thats why I’m so dedicated to mask wearing.

I know your question wasn’t about a mask.
But my original post was about a vaccination AND a mask.

I have answered all of your questions.
Can you answer one of mine?

Do you think it’s ok for the anti-maskers and anti-vaxers to harass parents and children walking to school wearing a mask, like in my above videos.

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hiker53
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Phoiph,

The vaccine worked just fine until the delta variant came along. Perhaps if more people had gotten vaccinated earlier and in other parts of the world there would not be these more contagious variants. Guess we will never know.

Some studies have shown that vaccinated people who get covid are contagious for fewer days than unvaccinated who get covid.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/08/11/covid-transmission-among-vaccinated-unvaccinated-what-experts-say/5488398001/

Thus, there would be less evolutionary pressure for mutations.

In my state masks are mandated when in indoor public places like grocery stores and in all schools and universities.

That has helped some as Illinois has not had the high number of delta cases as southern states which had no mask mandates.

Less transmission with masks means less chance of virus mutating.

Seems like every day scientists learn something new about covid.

Be safe.

--------------------
Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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Phoiph
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Bartenderbonnie~

I don't think it is OK for anyone to harass anyone.

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Bartenderbonnie
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With all due respect Phoiph

I have been respectful and complementary throughout this thread. Please enlighten me where I harassed you.

I really thought we were having a very intelligent and factual conversation.

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Phoiph
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Bartenderbonnie,

I think you misunderstood. You asked me if I thought it was OK for anti-maskers and anti-vaxers to harass parents and children, as in your video.

I replied by saying I don't think it is OK for anyone to harass anyone.

I was not in any way implying that you harassed me. I enjoy a good debate...

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hiker53
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I think enough back and forth has gone into this thread and feel like it needs to be locked or deleted.

--------------------
Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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Lonestartick
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Hi Norin,

I saw your name and was wondering if it was you because the registration date threw me off a little. Good to see you, too. Hope you're doing well!

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Phoiph
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quote:
Originally posted by hiker53:
I think enough back and forth has gone into this thread and feel like it needs to be locked or deleted.

On what grounds should this thread be censored?

No rules have been violated, and everyone has been relatively civil.

These are unprecedented times with our health, welfare, and human rights at stake. I don't think we can afford to close our minds or our discussions on these crucial issues, no matter how uncomfortable...

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hiker53
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I am not saying censor the thread. I am saying just lock it down.

Seems like same things are being repeated. And if you saw what happened in an Off Topic thread about covid, vaccines and masks you would understand why I proposed this.

Or move it to general since most medical is about Lyme and this is more about covid.

Just a thought.

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Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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Phoiph
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IMO, if no rules have been violated, and the discussion is relevant and civil, "deleting" OR "locking down" IS censoring.

I feel the discussion is appropriate for Lyme/medical, as it began with a link to how people with Lyme are reacting to the Covid-19 vaccine, and became a more general discussion in context.

We can agree to disagree...

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Bartenderbonnie
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Phoiph

Apologies sent.

Sometimes the written word is interrupted different than the spoken word. I should have known better, you seem open to other’s thoughts and processes.

The problem with this topic, is that people don’t behave.
I have been accused of being a bully and harassing which is not true. (please believe I am not referring to you).

If one lacks the skill of discussing an issue with a cool head, they resort to name calling. I do not claim to know how we can get past this. Lately, we have not concentrated on the mission of Lymenet, which is offering support and guidance to Lyme patients.

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Phoiph
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Bartenderbonnie~

Thank you, I understand...no worries!

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