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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » How do you recover from jaundice?

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Author Topic: How do you recover from jaundice?
tempe
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I've been writing the past few months about allergic and sensitivity reactions to almost every antibiotic, even ones I'd tried in previous years with no problem.

I think my body was telling me I needed to stop before my liver got in trouble. But, I kept going off for a few days, then starting over at a lower dose or on a different abx, on my LLMD's instruction.

But Saturday, I noticed my skin looked yellow. It continued & this morning I called my local doc and got an appointment for tomorrow. I also let my LLMD know.

I'm scared, because my last antibiotic was 7 days ago, but I just noticed the jaundice Saturday, so it seems my liver is continuing to get worse. Just going off the antibiotic hasn't made it better.

Has anyone else suffered jaundice from antibiotics? How did you get over it?

Tempe

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pattiecake
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I am not a doctor but perhaps you might try milk thistle...It is great for liver support. I would try it a.s.a.p. (along with seeing your llmd of course)
pattiecake

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micul
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Yes, I have had some yellowing of the skin for the last 4 yrs. Milk Thistle is important for ongoing protection, but High dose IV Vit C is the best for reversing jaundice, cirhosis, and hepatitis. 50 to 100 grams per Tx. SAMe is also good.

A little yellowing of the skin is not a real big deal. You wouldn't have to worry too much until the whites of your eyes were getting yellow also. That's when you really have jaundice. You would also be loosing weight steadily, and Your liver enzymes would be quite high.

Yellowing of the skin does not happen quickly like you think that it does. It takes a while for the color to come to the surface where you can notice it. It also takes a couple of months to go away after the problem is corrected because of all the layers of skin that we have

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You're only a failure when you stop trying.

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GiGi
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First of all, I would call my doctor right away. There are many ways he/she can help. It is serious, that much I know.


Taking a chance that I will get hit again by some of the disagreeables, some of those that just like to disagree, no matter what, I will tell of a quick experience I had just a couple of days ago:

I accompanied a person who could not manage things herself, could not walk or navigate her steps, to the place where she was to receive a colonic by a Certified Colonic Therapist.

The patient not only could not walk, etc., she also looked yellow - a bit more and it would be the color of a banana. Her doctor told her it was high time that she get a series of colonics.
She had been doing numerous long-term treatments with abx to combat Lyme, herbals, and several parasite cleanses with medicines that cross the blood-brain barrier (where often the parasites are!)

I watched the colonic because I was there to help. Having had numerous ones myself during my early days of Rocephin, etc., I had a vague idea of what was to happen.

That colonic was not directed at cleaning out the colon, old stool; - that had long been functioning well for her for a long time and she was therefore reluctant to get the colonic. She had three colonics just a couple of weeks before that delivered almost nothing, but clear with a little candida. Doctor said - there's got to be more; get another one.

All I can tell you, on this, the 4th, there came an uninterruped flow of black sludge that lasted for about 45 minutes. In their jargon - this is called a liver dump, several liver dumps with short pauses in between. They also refer to it as bile toxin, also containing pulverized parasites.

I think if we stood on our head, ran ourselves rugged, did teas and pills, and all that is recommended short of a colonic, there is just no way in the world to get this toxic mass out of our organs in an hour's time.

There is nothing that takes the place of a professional colonic. Some of the greatest MD's/LLMD's who have learned a little bit more since medical school are recommending them to their patients.

My doctor certainly did. One of the first things when I would call and complain about not feeling well and after making certain that everything else was on course would be the recommendation of a couple or three of colonics. I did just that - very reluctantly early on. But I soon learned that reabsorption of toxins and a dysfunctional gallbladder and liver would never get me well.

I want to add here that when the lady was through and done, she got out and walked out of the place without any assistance whatsoever. Forget the wheelchair. She walked.

She knows she will need several more before all accumulation is gone. She said she felt great.
I know she will feel even better the next time.

Maybe someone here wants to be brave and take a poll and see how many people are minus their gallbladders, how many go jo-jo-ing with their liver enzymes, and how many just feel sick and nauseous on and off. Turning yellow is just one sign of bile toxin. If you have no strength, are weak like a kitten, can barely make it from one couch to the other---- start thinking about colonics.

I mentioned several other remedies on my other posts on this subject, but they will never take the place of a colonic, a professional colonic, with an implant of good bacteria following the colonic.

Really, Cave, wonderful that your "cured lymies" don't need it. Believe me, the 40% that do not get well with antibiotics only, will benefit and it will get them closer to a cure. We are all different, and your organs may function better than others or mine did. But none of us are wonder-children that have organs made of steel that will continue to function forever no matter how much we abuse them with substances that were never meant to be in our body.

You and I have never seen eye to eye. You have
your beliefs. I will stick to mine because they worked to my benefit; they got me well.

Just some reemedies are - that will never take the place of a colonic, but help:

Livit 1 and Livit 2 by Ayush Ayurvedics
Dandelion
Liverlife
Heel hepa compositum along with support Heel products - any good doctor should know
KMT 23 & 24

There are more that maybe others can add here

Take care.

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tempe
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Thank you all for your replies!

micul, you really helped me. My local dr agreed with you that the yellowing of the skin likely developed several weeks ago -- that must have been when I took ketek in January - February and first had liver pain. It then got worse when I switched to biaxin.

micul, have you been able to continue to take antibiotics? Do you pulse? If the blood tests my dr took today show that liver enzymes are high, I'm wondering if I will be able to take abx. I've experienced liver pain the last few days just from trying 2 drops of oregano oil, or 1 olive leaf extract capsule, or 1 capsule of L-tryptophan.

Patticake, I have been taking Super Thislyn by Nature's Way with milk thistle, dandelion, asparagus & broccoli power. I actually had cut back recently because of the posts about milk thistle interfering with some antibiotics, but am back to 2 per day.

Gigi, I live in the midwest and doubt that we have any certified colonics therapists around here. Would you consider sending me a private message with the contact information for the one you just took your friend to? I will be in your state in June & again in October.

Tempe

Yellowing of the skin does not happen quickly like you think that it does. It takes a while for the color to come to the surface where you can notice it. It also takes a couple of months to go away after the problem is corrected because of all the layers of skin that we have [/QB][/QUOTE]

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micul
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Tempe,

Yes I continue to take abx. I don't pulse it, I take it everyday. I was taking 200 mg Mino bid + 600 mg Rifampin + 5oo mg Zith for 3 months.

I had to stop the zith because it was a little much for me, and besides it just wasn't working to get rid of the Bart. I think that it developed early resistance to the Rif.

I then went to 200 mino bid + Bactrim Ds bid. I think that the reason that I can still do everything is because I do extensive liver support.

I get a quick IV push of 2 cc's of glutathione + mag + C + B6 every other day, plus one milk Thistle a day and NAC/C/ALA/L Acetyl Carnitine/Q-10/Taurine/Glutamine/Phos-Choline-Serine and a few other amino acids.

I was taking 3 Mlk Thistle a day, bit I cut it back to just one because of the evidence that it interferes too much with most abx. I do get a little liver pain sometimes when I first start a new drug like Ketek, but it allways goes away after a few days.

It's not very bad either. Just a slight dull pain below my rib cage. Doc says that it's hard to know if it's liver or colon. Liver enzymes are all good, so I keep going.


I'm not saying that yellowing of the skin is a not a big deal, or that it should be ignored, but it can be managed and one can still continue with abx Tx if the proper support is done. A little yellowing of the skin is not the only thing that should dictate whether Tx needs to be stoped or not. (IMO and my Dr's)

It's very important to stay on top of everything in such cases. A few days of high dose IV Vit C can do wonders for liver repair also.

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You're only a failure when you stop trying.

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Marnie
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This might be "toxic hepatitis". This is a form of hepatitis (inflammation of the liver) due to too many drugs too fast for the liver to "process".

Many drugs have to go thru the liver as they leave the body. (Some go thru the kidneys.)

This is a problem if you already have a "fatty liver" due to a choline deficiency.

Bb needs our choline.

Normally, a few days off of abx will reverse this.

Our liver is capable of incredible regeneration (healing itself) because EACH liver cell contains 2000 powerhouses (mitochondria).

Not so the kidneys. Kidney damage is pretty much IRREVERSIBLE.

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tempe
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Micul, Thanks again for your support. My liver enzymes are back to normal now, so I'm ready to get back to treating.

I have 2 more questions:

Does your LLMD let you take the same antibiotic that you were on when you developed the jaundice, or does he avoid that one/s? The ketek I took at the beginning of Feb., or the biaxin I took (when I developed dark urine & vomited) in Feb. helped me a lot, but likely caused the jaundice. My local dr doesn't think I should ever take those again for fear of damaging my liver again, but my LLMD is away this week.

Second, I also have "a slight dull pain below my rib cage" just as you described. I'm having gallbladder tests next week & if I find out what is the cause, I'll be sure to let you know. Similarly, if you figure out the cause of yours, I hope you'll share again.

Thank you again. Your reassurance saved me from losing it this week!

Tempe


[QUOTE]Originally posted by micul:
[QB] Tempe,

Yes I continue to take abx. I don't pulse it, I take it everyday.

Just a slight dull pain below my rib cage. Doc says that it's hard to know if it's liver or colon. Liver enzymes are all good, so I keep going.

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micul
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Tempe,

Ketek would most likely be the one that hurt you. Some people just can't take it, and I hope that you were keeping up with the all the threads about it that were here last month. There were some recent deaths from it after only a short use. I would definitely stay away from that one if I were you.

I am not restricted as far as any abx. My yellowing started happening 4 years before I even started abx because I was taking oil of oregano and other toxic herbs + very high dose flagyl regimes for 10 days in attempts to get rid of protozoal parasites. This is still an ongoing issue with me. I did have lyme and coinfections at the time too, but the tests did not show it.

I think that I had already had some liver damage from years and years of aspirin therapy and ibupropen use for a chronic bad back. The only reason that I can continue with these harsh abx now is because of the frequent IV pushes that I do with Glutathione/C/Mag/B6 and other supplements, as well as very restrictive diet and exercising regimes. You've got to do continual liver support while on abx without interfering with the drugs effectiveness too much if possible. There are a number of things that you can do like organic coffee enemas, Chlorella, and castor oil packs over the liver. These things help to take the load off of your liver. They aren't fun, but you are in a place where they are necessary if you want to continue with abx or toxic herbal Tx.

It sounds to me like you need to do things that will repair some of your liver damage before you start back in with abx again. Consecutive days of high dose IV vit C can help to repair some damage in a fairly short time. Taking SAMe can also help but it takes longer, maybe 2 months before you would see any change. But you should do what your Dr says to do, not what me or anyone else on this board does. What works for me may not work for you.

[ 17. March 2006, 02:45 PM: Message edited by: micul ]

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You're only a failure when you stop trying.

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chroniclymie
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this could very well be hepatitis d from toxins to drugs.
you need to go to the doc asap and have the doc do liver screen of blood for hep c &d.
may need to go on antivirals but depends on the liver function studies.
if your sclera (white of the eye) is yellow, then immediate action should be taken as in emergency room.
Yellow of the skin usually is caused by a reaction of the body and the liver producing bilirubin to remove the reacting agent, in your case sounds like drug induced hepatitis.
The drug doxycycline can cause you teeth and bone to trun bright yellow if you are taking it during the period that the bone is still growing and the teeth are still forming.
tetracycline stain in teeth can go from yellow to orange to brown to gray, most are gray . they form horizontal stripes in the teeth and very difficult to remove cosmetically.

docdave

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tempe
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docdave:

You said, "you need to go to the doc asap and have the doc do liver screen of blood for hep c &d."


Would those have shown up in the "liver enzyme test" he did, or do I need to ask him to do those in addition?

Thank you so much for your help.

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flossie
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after several years of heavy antibiotic treatment for lyme and multiple co-infections, my boyfriend struggled mightily with iatrogenic (drug/med induced) hepatitis. he was unable to take most drugs, and had severly elevated liver enzymes (ALT and AST up even into the 600's) with certian meds, so that they could not be continued. this went on for almost 2 years. he did milk thistle up the wazoo, special diets, had liver biopsies, was tested repeatedly, saw liver transplant experts, etc etc. we were told he was going to be unable to take antibiotics (which he really needed for rampant neurologic infection) for the forseable future.

this lousy situation was turned around by a combination of several therapies.

-- probably most critically, he began twice weekly IV pushes of phosphotidylcholine (2 vials Lipostabl) and glutathione (1200 mg). this is a adaptation of the patricia kane protocol, and you can probably find more info on it on her website.

-- he began colonics, weekly at first. although they did not at all appeal to him, it was clear that they stimulated gall bladder and liver detox. although he did not do well with coffee enemas, many people have reported them to be extremely helpful with liver detox, as unappealing as that may seem.

-- he added healthy fiber and bulk to his diet, keeping elimination going, which according to his doc is totally critical when dealing with liver issues.

within 2 weeks of starting the glutathione/phospho IVs, he was able to tolerate antibiotics of all kinds, & all liver pain etc had disappeared. 8 months later his liver is still fine. although he is still ill, he has been able to tolerate and benefit from a series of hard-core drugs which never would have been able to be used previously.

hope some of this helps -

best of luck -
flossie

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chroniclymie
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your liver function tests should be abnormal with jaundice.
might need to test for bilirubin and ldh also.

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Lymetoo
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I'm glad you saw your dr. Hopefully you can get this taken care of soon! Here is a link that may interest you!

http://205.234.239.246/hepatitis.htm

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--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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tempe
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Thank you all again for all your help.

Docdave, I'm pretty dense, since I don't have a medical background. Are the "liver function tests" different than liver enzyme tests? And, what is ldh?

I have made a note about this, as well as a note about tests for drug-induced hepatitis. I am scheduled for an ultrasound of the liver & gallbladder this Friday morning & have a Dr appt Friday afternoon to go over the results. I will ask the Dr then to do any additional tests. So I really appreciate your giving this information about tests to ask for!!!!!

My liver enzymes were ok on Tuesday, but I had already been off abx 9 days at that point.

Flossie, you were really helpful too! I had done a search about jaundice & read about your boyfriend. I'm glad to hear those techniques helped him so much. I made an appointment with a local MD who has a naturopathic practice & I know he gives IV treatments, so I'll talk with him about those particular treatments. I already eat a lot of fiber. I do believe I'd better learn about colonics.

Flossie, did he go to a practitioner, or which technique helped him?

You've all been so helpful. I am VERY appreciative!

quote:
Originally posted by chroniclymie:
your liver function tests should be abnormal with jaundice.
might need to test for bilirubin and ldh also.


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chroniclymie
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yes liver enzymes and liver function are the same LDH is a liver enzyme and shows liver damage.
bilirubin is done and tests the amount of bilirubin and bile production of the bile duct
http://www.healthline.com/health/tests/003479.html?utm_source=adapt&utm_medium=google&utm_campaign=adam&utm_term=bilirubin
in any case jaundice espescially in sclera is not good and doc should treat asap.
also he can run a test for hepatitis also.
you might also want to think about hep vaccine when this is over.
most hepatitises once cured ,you are still a carrier so you must be safe about where your body fluids touch.
hep d may be the exception but not sure, ask doc.
may want to see an endocrinologist
docdave

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flossie
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um, what do you mean by what techniques?
for the IV? or colonic?
happy to give details but just not sure what info you need -

best,
flossie

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tempe
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Lymetoo,

Thank you for your suggestion as well. Coincidentally, I had gone off biaxin a week before the jaundice showed up because my tongue was burning & had a red strip on each side of the center of it.

To help my immune system take over, I began taking ambrotose in 1 tbls. of mangosteen + noni juice, and 1 tbls. of colostrum, twice a day. Maybe that's one reason that when my liver enzymes were tested 9 days after going off the biaxin, they tested ok.

I'm going to keep up the mangosteen-noni juice. Dr C sells noni juice because he thinks it is good, and I've read good things about mangosteen, so the combination juice I bought at the health food store seems like the best of both worlds. What do you think about that approach?

Thank you again for your suggestion.

Tempe
quote:
Originally posted by Lymetoo:
I'm glad you saw your dr. Hopefully you can get this taken care of soon! Here is a link that may interest you!

http://205.234.239.246/hepatitis.htm


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tempe
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Flossie, and Gigi as well,

I meant techniques for the colonics. I've not researched them before, and I don't know where to start. I don't know that we have a certified colonics therapist in my area.

Where would you begin researching? And, are there certain techniques to avoid, no matter what some individual says?

Thank you again!!!!!!! I love all of you here for the support you give to those in need!

Tempe


quote:
Originally posted by flossie:
um, what do you mean by what techniques?
for the IV? or colonic?
happy to give details but just not sure what info you need -

best,
flossie


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flossie
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tempe -

you need to find a certified hydrotherapist or colon therapist. i guess i'd start with the web, researching your area. or maybe you could post here, with where you live and other would know. you want to find someone who uses disposable tubing and disposible speculum etc. you don't want someone who reuses/sterilizes, in my opinion. other may differ on this, but i feel pretty strongley about that. you also want to find out if they're using purified water or tap water. i would not do it if they're using tap water, since getting additional chlorine absorbed via very absorbtive tisue doesn't sound right to me. some places "repopulate" the colon with healthy bacteria afterwards and some do not. what i have been told by doctors and colon therapists we trust is that in most cases you shouldn't - that colonic don't actually strip the body of good bacteria unless you're doing them daily or something like that. but you should take good quality probiotics orally, daily. (BioK, Beta Glucan, Pharmax HLC, etc). the only experience i know about with a colonic with 'repopulation' was that it made the person very constipated and uncomfortable for almost a week afterwards. t was clearly not wht they needed. another thing which can apparently be good is colonic with a small amount of ozone - this is what my boyfriend is currently doing. but this will be harder to find, and it's my impression tat it's not at all necessary.

this is what gigi saud in a recent thread about colonics: "All I am interested in is seeing what comes out; learn to relax; signal when the pressure is not comfortable, and relax. If you have never had a colonic, it will feel a bit strange the first time. But it should not cause any pain.

It pays to expect the good and I have found that most the time when my attitude is positive, things will work just fine; and vice versa, definitely.

I have only ever used the hydro system, where the "tools" used are opened in front of you sealed in a package like a sterile bandaid. All you see is water flowing in the tank and the matter leaving your body, all behind glass, and in tubes, totally sealed, flowing directly into the sewer system. You can follow every step of the way and see what you had been carrying probably for a long, long time. If it weren't so human, it would be disgusting.

The colema boards and the do it yourself stuff just does not work as well. Spend the money and thank God there are some people that do not mind doing that kind of work."

as for coffee enemas, i remember a number of threads about them on this board... it was a long time ago but maybe they're still here. i'm sure if you searched that, as well as colonics you get a lot more info.

one thing i want to say is be prepared for the colonic to be an intense experience. not as much while it's happening, but after wards. i have seen my boyfriend feel great afterwards, but occasionally he will feel really bad over te night following it. others have reported this as well. what we've been told is that it doesn't mean it was bad for him - rather that it can be very detoxing and the body has to process lots of toxins moving around and out, and/or it can create significant herxing by allowing the body to better process the herbs/abx, etc.

best of luck
flossie

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Lymetoo
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Tempe...Sounds like it may be helping. I'm really prejudiced about which mangosteen product is the best, but can't say much here. I do know of a mangosteen/noni combination that is not very good at all.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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