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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Do you know your Natural Killer cell #?

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Author Topic: Do you know your Natural Killer cell #?
cutie
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I had mine tested at the FFC and it was 17. Normal is 20-50 I think. Was wondering what others were.

Thanks!
Cutie

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Cutie

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humanbeing
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What is the FFC? what do natural killer cells kill?

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We are spiritual beings on a human journey...

www.ruggierogallery.com

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lymeHerx001
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I had mine tested twice,
Once it was 7 and with treament I had it tested again about 1 year later and it was 3.

So I got worse, the test was also $980, insurance only paid $200 of it.

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karatelady
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Mine was 27.30 and my doctor wrote in the margin "below 30 is low."

That was a year ago at the FFC. I haven't had it taken again yet.

Sandy

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karatelady
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humanbeing,

The FFC is the Fibromyalgia and Fatigue Center.

Sandy

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5dana8
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I can't find the actual numbers but mine where low before treatment.

3 years after treatment they are back to normal [Smile]

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5dana8

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Lymetoo
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14

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--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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cutie
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This worries me as to our ability to fight off other diseases (like cancer).

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Cutie

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PinchotGail
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At my sickest it was ZERO...in 2/2004

In 10/05 it "zoomed" up to 13. I thought normal was 100 or better?? One daughter is at 33, and the other is at 96....hubby is at 66.

I got the CD 57 tests through IGenex.....i have bartonella, babesia, and lyme. Been treated for babesia 3x w/mepron/zith/art and malarone later(7 months, 4 months & 6 months); not sure if it's gone.

Just started bicillin shots with ketek.....wow what a neuro-psych herx!!!

Gail
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Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an
indomitable will ~ Gandhi

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bettyg
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Without going to my DETAILED 4-20-06 new LLMD summary & lab results lengthy post,

I'm guessing mine is on the high end of NORMAL at 50 or perhaps it was 57.

Someone wanted to know what it does, etc. I typed the 1 page sheet explaining all of this in my detailed notes.

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cutie
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Well I just looked at my lab results again and it definitely says that NK cells should be between 20 and 50.

I looked it up on the internet but could not find much info about them but that they are part of your lymphocytes.

It did say they could be suppressed because of stress in addition to illness. It didn't say which illnesses suppress them though.

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Cutie

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bettyg
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I just looked at my online post, and I'M LOW! I didn't see the number today; brain fog!

With enclosure from Dr. B explaining CD57, natural killer function.
"Used to help determine how ACTIVE THE INFECTION IS, how well the treatment is working, and whether after treatment ends, a relapse is likely to occur!
This is how it works!

Chronic Lyme infections are known to suppress the immune system. The lyme spirochete can affect ALL MAJOR CELL TYPES of the immune system, but it most clearly can impact a specific subset of the natural killer cells. This is called the CD-57 subset.

Just as in HIV infection, which suppresses T-Cell counts, lyme suppresses killer cell counts. As in HIV infection, where abnormally low T-Cell counts are routinely used as a marker of how active the infection is, in lyme, we can use the CD-57 count to indicate how active the lyme infection is.

When lyme is ACTIVE, the CD57 count is suppressed. We currently are having our tests run by LAB CORP, a SPECIFIC CALIFORNIA BRANCH OF LAB CORP RUNS THIS TEST.

At this lab, the expected range for the CD57 count is ABOVE 60.

In my experience, those who do NOT have lyme, or those who are CURED of their infection, typically have counts ABOVE 180!

However, in the chronic lyme patient, CD57 counts are usually WELL BELOW 60.

This test can be run a the start of therapy, then EVERY SEVERAL MONTHS to document the effectiveness of treatment. One hopes to see a rising trend over time.

When antibiotic therapy is finally at an END, if the CD57 count is NOT in the normal range, than a lyme relapse is MORE LIKELY TO OCCUR.

Because at this point, we believe that only BORRELIA will affect the CD57 this way, a sick patient with a HIGH CD57, is probably ill with SOMETHING OTHER THAN LYME, SUCH AS A CO-INFECTION.

------ BEFORE you have a CD57 test run, BE SURE IT WILL BE SENT TO THE PROPER BRANCH OF LAB CORP. Otherwise, they probably will do the WRONG TEST, wasting your MONEY AND TIME!

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5dana8
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Thanks for the explaination betty

You are a treasure! [Smile]

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5dana8

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robi
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I think CD 57 is just one type ofNatural Killer cell ......... there are many types of Natural Killer cells. I think reporting a # with out naming which one your talking about may be casing confusion here.

Just a thought,
robi

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Now, since I put reality on the back burner, my days are jam-packed and fun-filled. ..........lily tomlin as 'trudy'

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Lymetoo
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My test was NOT a CD57 test. It was for natural killer cell function.

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--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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daystar1952
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Mine was also a test for natural killer cell function and it was 15.Below 20 was considered pretty low. Haven't had it done again because of cost. I think that certain herbs in Buhner's protocol are supposed to help raise that?
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DolphinLady
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Mine is 148 done by labcorp as bettyg explained.

My llmd was very happy at my appointment earlier this week when we reviewed these results.

However, I've got a ways to go with babesia treatment.

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bettyg
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Robi and Tutu and others,

"Dr. B explaining CD57, natural killer function.
"Used to help determine how ACTIVE THE INFECTION IS, how well the treatment is working, and whether after treatment ends, a relapse is likely to occur!
This is how it works! "......

This info was typed exactly as is from the handout sent by LAB CORP with my results...

If I am adding confusion, please forgive me
[bow]
as I do NOT understand anything about this since I wasn't able to go to my 2 hr. appt. with LLMD last week for her to explain ALL MY LAB RESULTS w/me. [confused]

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cutie
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Good point Robi - I think we're talking about different things. Betty - I need to check my lab results and see if there is a seperate reading for CD57 cells!

I'm taking maitake mushroom supplemens which is supposed to raise this. In addition to trying to kill of this lyme.

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Cutie

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Lymetoo
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Check the poll from last month on the CD57. The ranges of "scores" from everyone was wild. I don't think it measures much of anything at all.

Certainly, if it's very high, then maybe things are going well for you....but the scores posted here were high, low, and inbetween, with patients feeling well with a low score....crappy with a high one.

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Opinions, not medical advice!

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Kentucky Girl
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Mine was a 8 at the FFC back in September, just retested this week and will see if I have improved

Which FFC do you go to?

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Dani

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pomegranite
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Natural Killer or NK cells are a part of the immune system. CD57 cells are a subset ...a particular type of NK cells of which there are many different subsets.

I don't know anything about the FCC test to measure Nk cells.

I do know a little about the CD 57 test which measures just one subset of the NK cells that is done through lab corp. The low end of normal range for that test is listed by lab corp as 60. However, My cali LLMD's both think that is too low. They both want to see their patients in the 150 range and believe that if they stop treating when the test is lower than 150 that patients are more likely to relapse.

It is believed by my LLMDs that CD57 cells which are depressed in lyme (and perhaps TB patients...but not others) and which may fluctuate some during treatment are an indicator of how active lyme is in your system at the time of the test.

Per patient report a lower or higher CD 57 does not necessarily correlate with how a patient feels. In other words for some patients when their cd57 is low they feel ok and for others whose value is higher they feel awful.

So it may have little relevance to how you actually feel in a given moment.

Although I have to say that in my case, when I have felt terrible my cd57 tests have been lower and when I've felt better they were actually higher. My value has been 9 at its lowest and 75 at its highest.

Oh and it also seems that those of us who suffer neurolyme have lower values than lymies without neuro involvement.

From the realm of the naturopaths...certain mushrooms seem to increase NK cell activity. Cordyceps and shi take being among them.

I know that when I have religiously taken my cordyceps pills I have felt better and my CD 57 count has increased.

Good luck and to wellness~
Pomegranite

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islandgirl
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This test is all new news to me.

Who gives this test, is this something many LLMDs do in the States, to see improvement or not? I would love to know where I stand after 4 years of illness and 2 years of antibiotics.

I never heard of this test. It would be wonderful if we knew where we stood. But how could this be so, when not even the lyme diagnostic tests are worth anything?

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Marnie
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NK cell levels vary. They NORMALLY drop when we exercise because THEN we are making lactic acid.

NK...natural killer cells... are our 1st line of defense against precancerous cells.

Normally, they knock off about 3 or 4 precancerous cells per day by (simplified) "squirting" them with an acidic free radical.

Acids/negative charges destroy MOST cells and MOST pathogens.

Keep in mind...Bb an mycoplasm are UNIQUE.

The NK cell levels will rise once the disease is under control. Meanwhile, your system is far too acidic in the first place.

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