LymeNet Home LymeNet Home Page LymeNet Flash Discussion LymeNet Support Group Database LymeNet Literature Library LymeNet Legal Resources LymeNet Medical & Scientific Abstract Database LymeNet Newsletter Home Page LymeNet Recommended Books LymeNet Tick Pictures Search The LymeNet Site LymeNet Links LymeNet Frequently Asked Questions About The Lyme Disease Network LymeNet Menu

LymeNet on Facebook

LymeNet on Twitter




The Lyme Disease Network receives a commission from Amazon.com for each purchase originating from this site.

When purchasing from Amazon.com, please
click here first.

Thank you.

LymeNet Flash Discussion
Dedicated to the Bachmann Family

LymeNet needs your help:
LymeNet 2020 fund drive


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations.

LymeNet Flash Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » I am in trouble i hope i live

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: I am in trouble i hope i live
polar blast
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 9142

Icon 1 posted      Profile for polar blast     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I took art about 4 weeks ago and after i took it everything has changed.in the middle of the night my breathing screw up..I feel like I am out of it and I get myclonic jerks..the wierd tingling is all over the back and i had the runs last night..I cant sleep as i think I messed up my brain stem from the art...I am so screwed up and dont know what to do..I have all sorts of neuro problems but a clear mri and pet..spect show severe hypopperfusion...I am on mep and zith and i am going to stop it now..the art has anyone had the same reaction like me..ears are sensitive to sound...just feel awful..could all this be a herx and there is no damage?I get scared to go to sleep...also i am cold all the time but body temp is 96.5..I jut want to live...
eric

Posts: 593 | From long island ny | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kumba
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 7733

Icon 1 posted      Profile for kumba     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
PB, I am sorry you are feeling like a near death experience. I have not been here long enough to give you sage advice on the Art. I hope someone can answer your question. Do you have a LLMD you can call? I hope you are under the guidance of a good doc. My best to you.
Posts: 145 | From NorthEast US | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ma
Member
Member # 10055

Icon 1 posted      Profile for ma     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hello Eric,

I am so sorry you are going through this hell. My son is also going through the same with the neuro problems.

I'm no expert, but it sounds like this may be a herx from the mepron/zith. Doing it's job and making things worse before they get better.

Please dont stop taking your meds until you talk to your llmd. You should call him/her first thing Monday morning.

Are you taking probiotics like theralac? And drinking a ton of water can also help your body rid of toxins alot.

I know this is scary, but you will get through this.

Healing thoughts to you [group hug]
~Ma

Posts: 70 | From Central NY | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Aniek
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5374

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Aniek     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I've never heard of art causing damage to the brain stem. It's very likely a herx that is continuing because of Mepron and Zith. Did you ever talk to a doctor about the art? What did the doctor say?

You could be having automonic neuropathy (quick overview here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomic_neuropathy)

The autonomic nervous system regulates the non-voluntary, non-sensory nervous system. It basically regulates all the organs, basic life functions, etc.

It is pretty common for people with Lyme to have autonomic neuropathy. Usually what happens in Lymies is that the parasympathetic system, which is the rest and digest system, is underactive. The sympathetic system, which is fight or flight (stress mode) is often hyper-active.

There are varying degress of autonomic nervous system disfunction. In my case, some of the symptoms include an anxious feeling on waking, motor tics (that we thought were myoclonic jerks), diarhea, nausea, loss of appetite, inability to tolerate heat, inability to tolerate cardio exercise.

The best treatment is treating the underlying infection. But my doctor also has me on many supplements to correct deficiencies that have created a cycle of neuropathy (amino acids, B vitamins, Vitamin C, magnesium primarily). There are also medications to help regulate blood pressure problems from autonomic neuropathy.

--------------------
"When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison

Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935

Icon 1 posted      Profile for 5dana8   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
sorry to hear you are so sick polar blast.

I would call your LLMD asasp and ask if you can lower the art or maybe even pulse it.

Art's an herb but a very powerful one. It sounds like a herx but you could be having some side effects that need to be followed very closely by your doctor..

If you have the runs make sure to replace your electro-lites and drink extra water.

hang in there and hope you can reach your doc soon [group hug]

--------------------
5dana8

Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Getting Better
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 8919

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Getting Better   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Eric, most of us, many of us, have these intense issues and there are times we think we are gonna just die. So hang in there, we on this board know it is hard.

I think you should touch base with your LLMD. When things like this happenedto me I learned to stop the medication and talk to the doctor. The problem with that is with mepron: if you go off and on it, you can become immune to it and it won't help anymore.

I hope you are getting tons of rest, and as little stress as possible.

--------------------
Jeff

Posts: 533 | From CA | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
char
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8315

Icon 1 posted      Profile for char     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Is someone there with you?

Char

Posts: 1230 | From US | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
*Daisy*
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 9593

Icon 1 posted      Profile for *Daisy*     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Eric,

You will be okay. Sounds like a massive herx. Are you doing anything to help detox? That should help.

It's so hard to have hope when you are in the midst but you will get through it. I have been sick for years and still spent the last week wishing the ground would open up and swallow me.

Call your doc, he may have something to help.

Good luck and much love,

--------------------
Daisy

Posts: 122 | From at the computer | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Michelle M
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7200

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Michelle M   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Polar, I'm SO sorry you're feeling this way.

It's NOT permanent!

Research shows that babesial organisms can be present in the brain vasculature in numbers five times greater than anywhere else in the body.

Add Mepron, Zith, and Art, and it is going to hurt.

However, that does not mean it is not working. It probably means the opposite.

You might need to back off the Art because it surely does add a mighty punch to the Mepron. However, I would not abandon it.

I went through this too when starting this regimen (I have babesia WA1); was pretty sure I would die from head pain. Was a bit worried my daughter might find me thus. It passed, and miraculously I did not.

A better day will come soon. Really. Hang on.

PLEASE call and check in with your LLMD.

Michelle

Posts: 3193 | From Northern California | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
polar blast
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 9142

Icon 1 posted      Profile for polar blast     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I talked to my doc and he said that it is a herx nd that the initial 3 days of art started the cascade of events...it all started with the art and the old symptoms came back..the sense of an altered state when trying to sleep is back and worse then it was before...while i was taking the meprom and zith i could not function and had very bad cognitive issues and felt like i did not want to talk to people...it was the worst herx I have ever experienced...I just could not breath on the mepron and I think it was because it was in the nerves not the lungs..anyway I am hoping that I will be able to go to sleep without feeling my lungs gasp...I feel great today as far as cognition so the herx from hell is over..also I cant fall asleep without strange feeling that started with art..my doctor does not supply art..anyway my pet scan from last year is normal and so is my mri from last week so i hope this will subside...this is the most frightening herx ever..anyone else get this type of thing?
Posts: 593 | From long island ny | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
polar blast
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 9142

Icon 1 posted      Profile for polar blast     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
i did not use art with the mepron...I took art two weeks earlier..that was the herx from hell but only after three days of art...i was taking 200mg 1st day 300mg nd day 200 mg one dose third day and stopped do to slurred speach and vertigo...hope I am ok...
eric

Posts: 593 | From long island ny | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
iceskater
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 8655

Icon 1 posted      Profile for iceskater     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Polar: Thoughts and prayers are with you to help you get through this mess. Hang in there and keep trying as hard as you can.
Posts: 719 | From Delaware | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kayda
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 10565

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Kayda     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I have a question. What is Art?

What if you took Chlorella to mop up the mess would that help you feel better?

Would some detox baths help?

Sorry if these are dumb questions, I'm a newbie and still learning.

Kayda

Posts: 582 | From midwest | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
nellypointis
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 1719

Icon 1 posted      Profile for nellypointis     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=14757313&query_hl=4&itool=pubmed_docsum

Toxicol Lett. 2004 Mar 1;147(2):99-107. Links
Comment in:
Toxicol Lett. 2004 Aug 1;151(3):489-90, author reply 491-2.
Artemisinin derivatives: toxic for laboratory animals, safe for humans?Gordi T, Lepist EI.
Department of Pharmaceutics, School of Pharmacy, State University of New York at Buffalo, Buffalo, NY 14260, USA. [email protected]

A discrepancy seems to prevail with regard to the toxicity and safety of the artemisinin family of antimalarials. While these compounds have been found to be virtually void of any serious side effects in humans, their neurotoxicity in animal models has raised concerns about their use. In this paper, we present selected examples of both pre-clinical and clinical studies dealing with adverse effects of artemisinin drugs. We suggest that the prolonged presence of artemisinins upon slow release from oil-based intramuscular formulations is the main cause of the observed toxicity in laboratory animals. In contrast, oral intake of these compounds, which is by far the most common formulation used for treatment of malaria patients, results in rapid clearance of these drugs and is thus unlikely to cause any toxicity in human subjects. Another plausible factor may be the relatively high doses of artemisinin compounds used in animal studies. In conclusion, the observation of the toxicity of artemisinin compounds in animals, but not in humans, is most likely due to different pharmacokinetic profiles after different routes of administrations.

PMID: 14757313 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Posts: 416 | From france | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
nellypointis
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 1719

Icon 1 posted      Profile for nellypointis     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Aniek:
[QB] I've never heard of art causing damage to the brain stem. [QUOTE]

Now you have [Smile]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=10212895&query_hl=4&itool=pubmed_docsum

Med Trop (Mars). 1998;58(3 Suppl):32-7. Links
Neurotoxicity and artemisinin compounds do the observations in animals justify limitation of clinical use?Dayan AD.
Department of Toxicology, Saint Bartholomew's School of Medicine, London, United Kingdom. [email protected]

High parenteral doses of certain artemisinin derivatives can produce a limited and unique, ******selective brain stem neuronopathy in laboratory animals.**** There is necrosis of a small number of nerve cells in certain brain stem nuclei and more extensive chromatolysis of neurons in the same nuclei a few days after *****intramuscular or intravenous injection of dihydroqinghaosu, artemether and arteether in doses exceeding about 6mg/kg/d intramuscular or intravenous for about 3-5 days (in an oily solvent) in the dog, or after a single parenteral dose exceeding about 100 mg/kg. The limited information available about the monkey suggests that it is only affected after doses several times higher. The probable order of sensitivity of species is dog > rat > monkey, but this is based on only few results. No lesions have been reported after various intramuscular and oral dosages of artesunate and artelinate. The limited reports of clinical observations have not suggested any specific pattern of abnormalities. The lesion is unique in its distribution, in the small number of neurons that become necrotic and the occurrence in nearby cells of chromatolysis. The latter is almost certainly reversible because more prolonged or higher dose studies have not shown more extensive neuronal damage. As the pathogenesis of this toxic response is not known, evaluation of the risk to man must be based on conventional assessment of active doses in animals versus those employed in the treatment of cerebral malaria. It is argued that there is no reason to anticipate a particular risk of conventional regimes employing up to artemether 3-6mg/kg/d intramuscular or other regimes involving artesunate per rectum for a few days.

PMID: 10212895 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Posts: 416 | From france | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
polar blast
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 9142

Icon 1 posted      Profile for polar blast     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
does this mean it is temporary?I hope so..does it also mean that the brain problems were from parental administration?I have a startle reflex with my eye now and hoping it will go away...what is the sayde dose of oral artemisinin?did I exeed the maximum dose or was I wrong to double up on the dose?...is a gerx from artemisinin occurr like what my herx was...why is it taking so long to dissapear?is it because I am on mepron?also does mepron mess up the nuero circuits like artemisinin?sorry to ask so many questions...I believe that the infection was on the brain stem and the art removed it...its just the damage that i am worryed about..how long till herx symptoms dissapear?
eric thanks

Posts: 593 | From long island ny | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
micul
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 6314

Icon 1 posted      Profile for micul     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Polar.

Yes it's temporary. The doses that you took of Art were relatively small. Most people take around 200 mg 3 x's a day. You did good to start small and just do one dose to test the waters. To Be safe, you might try using 100 mg just once a day and work through the herx until it subsides.

Art is only an adjuctant to Mep/Zith. It does help, but I have found that much higher doses are needed for it to be really effective. Like the study says that Nelly posted, Art taken orally is cleared pretty quickly. That's how you took it right..in capsules? Parenteraly means that it was put into your vein. That's where it is more likely to be toxic. They also use a different form of Art called Artemether which has a much longer half life. I doubt very much if you will have any lasting damage from Artemisinin. In fact, I don't think that you have sustained any damage, only an increase in Sx's

--------------------
You're only a failure when you stop trying.

Posts: 945 | From U.S | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
polar blast
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 9142

Icon 1 posted      Profile for polar blast     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
i took 200mg then 300 mg then 200 together then stopped do to slurred words and vertigo..now my problems is sleeping...i cant enter sleep..ill try to relax and drift off..
eric

Posts: 593 | From long island ny | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Vermont_Lymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9780

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Vermont_Lymie     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi Polar,

Sorry you are feeling so badly. I hope you can take the time today to just hang out and relax without responsibilities and stress. Sounds like a herx in my opinion, and you should keep in close touch with your llmd. If I felt that way, I would probably stop taking whatever abx I was on.

I had a bad day too -- congested lungs, exhaustion. Let's both relax! take good care.

Posts: 2557 | From home | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lymemomtooo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5396

Icon 1 posted      Profile for lymemomtooo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Polar Blast, if a herx seems to be killing you , then please cut back and ramp up slower.

WE need you well for the big Duck party. It is in your back yard. I remember you were there in Ct. I was the giant tick. lymemomtooo

Posts: 2360 | From SE PA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
badkitti30043
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 2889

Icon 1 posted      Profile for badkitti30043     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi
It sounds the the horrible neuro herxs I experienced w/ Mepron and Zithro.. I went thru all kinds of strange new symptoms while on that treatment for 6 + months.It stirred up anything & everything. Photophobia ,sensitivity to sound, rage, crying, severe depression, itching crawling tingling sensations, and chemical sensitivity too amoung others. It was nescesary to treat with it but I was literally nearly suicidal the first couple of months. After that I came to realize after taking a break that it was the meds / and or die off. I was also on IV primaxin or IV rocephin too with that combo.The NP used to say that maybe there was some manner in which mepron was hitting the Lyme intead of just babs.

I think maybe if it gets to be too overwelming - you should take a couple of week Mepron break.take care & hope you feel better.

--------------------
Sandi
( badkitti30043)

Posts: 664 | From Atlanta Ga. | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
bigmamma
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 7181

Icon 1 posted      Profile for bigmamma     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hey polar,

Did you read my last post about my scary experience on mepron and zith? Major major herx. Friday I called LLMD and he told me to temporarily STOP the meds due to my major neuro symptoms. I too had slurred speech that day,severe myoclonus episodes, vibrations and numbness and even temporary paralysis one morning. I felt that my breathing was affected and my swallowing was affected and I was sure I was dieing of ALS.

Well, I want to tell you that I am feeling better, the breathing issues went away and the vibrations are lessening.

Since Zithromax stays in your body longer due to a longer half life, it may take you just a couple days to start feeling better.

I tried some antiinflammatories, drank lots of lemon in water, etc. My doc asked me on the phone about being on his neurotransmitter protocol and he said I need to start that because that helps with the vibrating stuff.

I had stiff neck and sensitivity to sound at first when very sick from Lyme meningitis and my stiff neck came back when on this zith & mepron. I think this means the lyme is really in my CNS and the meds are really making the chetes mad right now.

So the symptoms you are experiecing are probably a big herx and you have CNS inflammation. Hang and there and you WILL make it through this. Don't be afraid to go to sleep. Your body and brain really need the sleep right now. Melatonin helps. If your symptoms worsen when lying down (like mine did due to increased pressure on the spine) I would try sleeping in a recliner or semipropped with pillows.

You REALLY need to keep your LLMD updated with what is going on or at least call and talk with the nurse. They might be able to give you some specifics for you. Don't be embarrassed to tell them you are afraid you are dying and they will know how scared you are and how much of a change your condition is going through.

(By the way - I went through all of this with Mepron and Zith alone.... i haven't even tried Art yet but I think since having this severe of herxes I will hold off on the Art for quite some time.)

Hang in there and feel free to pm me.

--------------------
 - Some day, this mamma's gonna dance!  -

Posts: 199 | From here | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
seibertneurolyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 6416

Icon 1 posted      Profile for seibertneurolyme     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Nimzovich,

I disagree with your statements. Babesia can be cerebral just like malaria can. If so, main symptoms would be seizure-like problems and muscle twitches and myoclonic jerks.

Eric has mentioned that he had a bad SPECT scan -- he obviously has reduced blood flow to the brain which a babesia herx could exacerbate.

In my opinion he needs to be on heparin or systemic enzymes or something to treat hypercoagultion. May help with herx symptoms or may make them worse. Either way, unless the hypercoagulation is addressed the babesia will be much harder to eradicate in my opinion.

Eric, this is just my opinion, but the majority of hubby's seizure-like episodes and myoclonic jerks seem to have been caused by babesia and not Lyme.

Hang in there. I do not think you have done any permanent damage with either the art or mepron/zith. Sleep will be better than it has been in a long time after the babesia is gone in my opinion.

Bea Seibert

Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
david1097
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3662

Icon 1 posted      Profile for david1097     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If I read you correcty you mention 4 weeks. I have not read all the other reponses but here is something to keep in mind.

When a multiple infection exists, there is a balancing act between the infectious orignisms. It can be a very complex interaction where a combination of antibodies, competition for nutrients ,organism life cycle including auto sequetration into protected parts of the body etc. etc. all combine to change the efficacy of the drugs you are taking.

I assume that you are also taking some other drugs along with artiminisin, it might very well be that adding the artminisin upset the comfortable balance that allowed some of the infections that seem to wax and wain on a 4 weeks cycle to finally be attacked by the other drugs. A silent increase in Lyme after the babesia was kncked down mught acount for this.

If it is lyme related, I have experimented many times trying to see if severity of the 4 week (2 weeks in my case) flareups could be modulated by the changing the dose of drugs when the flareup occured. I have found that if you did not take the drugs before the flareup would have an effect (lesser symptoms)but once it started stoppng the drugs had no effect but did speed recovery from the flare symtoms.This was for shorter halflife drugs.

I dont know if this applies in your case but you might try to stop the art.. If it is a artiminisin toxicity either from long term use of the drug of a contaminated batch, I would think that the the symtoms would clear up. If it is lyme related then based on my self observation I would expect the flairup to continue through to completion with a gradual recovery.


If it is a babesia die off, one would think that you may see some sign of the damaged red blood cells in the urine in the form of dark urine but this is only a guess. Also if the babesia is killed, the neuro symtoms shoudl get better not worse as the babesia parasite causes the RBC to secrete a protien that causes them to stick together. A dead protozoa will not do this so the sticking part would not exist.(in theory)

Thats all I can add right now, just something else to consider.

Posts: 1184 | From north america | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
seibertneurolyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 6416

Icon 1 posted      Profile for seibertneurolyme     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Nimzovich,

Unfortunately hypoxia can be a problem and not show on a CBC or by pulse ox. Dr S has written about this -- don't remember if he was speaking of Lyme or Babesia.

The Dr B explained it to hubby in very clear terms -- babesia makes the red blood cells fat and the cell membranes are stiff -- the infected cells are unable to fold up and squeeze through the capillaries as they normally do.

If the infected cells are in the brain the symptoms would obviously be neurological. If the cells are elsewhere in the body, then the symptoms would be different.

The cause of sweats from babesia is when the infected red blood cells burst as the infection multiplies and the immune system is overwhelmed by the cellular debris and new baby babesia which are looking for new homes. This can occur naturally or as a result of antibiotics/antimalarials.

Bea Seibert

Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Michelle M
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7200

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Michelle M   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm with Bea on this.

Been there, done that.

We KNOW that there are five times as many babesia parasites in the brain as anywhere else in the body. That's been proven.

Now we take a guy who's been on lyme meds and he's doing more or less OK. Maintaining.

Now we add Mepron/Zith/Art, then stir for a coupla weeks.

Suddenly we got a really messed up neuro guy.

And you think it's the lyme doing it?

I am not following this line of reasoning.

Maybe there's a 5% chance some lyme organisms are being 'freed up' by the antimalarials; but there's about a 95% chance it's the babesia.

Michelle

Posts: 3193 | From Northern California | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117

Icon 1 posted      Profile for treepatrol     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Are you taking any other meds like pain pills they can cause some breathing trouble.

--------------------
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.

Newbie Links

Posts: 10564 | From PA Where the Creeks are Red | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ma
Member
Member # 10055

Icon 1 posted      Profile for ma     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Just my two cents.

I am so worried about him, I hope we hear from Eric soon!

I am honestly thinking that all of these neuro problems and visual problems may be caused by untreated Bart.

My son has these same symptons going on from time to time. Much worse when herxing, lasting 7-10 days at a time.

Babs and Bart are a horrible combo to deal with.

Eric, have you had any treatment for bartonella?

Please let us know how your doing.

[group hug] ~Ma

Posts: 70 | From Central NY | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
KarenB
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 10510

Icon 1 posted      Profile for KarenB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi Eric,

I'm a newbie and all of this info is so overwhelming.

I am sorry you are going thru all of this. I know in my heart it will get better.

I am also going thru a rough time. Have not felt good in a long time.

I am being treated for lyme and babesia.

After reading things I wonder if I have bartonella also.

Who am I anyway, I just keep looking for guidance from my llmd.

It is all so confusing.

Hang in there and I will keep you in my prayers.

karen

Posts: 151 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
polar blast
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 9142

Icon 1 posted      Profile for polar blast     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
thanks everyone for my concern..i am home now and ok so far..my heart rate is very fast for what i am used too...also the art alone and then the zith and mep threw me a curve ball..i do believe that babs does play a roll in the whole lyme complex..also I know i have very thick blood...i cut my finger off..the very tip and did not bleed very much lucky it all went back ok..i am now going from no startle responce to a very bad startle...so things are changing..the fast heart rate bothers me...thanks all for caring and lets kick wormser *** ...
eric

Posts: 593 | From long island ny | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
nellypointis
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 1719

Icon 1 posted      Profile for nellypointis     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by david1097:
Babesia, when it infects a RBC causes the RBC to secrete a protien that casues the RBC to stick to the vascular wall, and to other RBC's. This can gum upsoem of the timy viens that are in the brian and infect in cattel with bovine babesia, thier brains are very read from being so clogged up(seen when they are dead of course).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

David,(and others)

have you read this latest Australian study re Babesia? opinions?

Nelly

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=16887045

Malar J. 2006; 5: 69.
Published online 2006 August 4. doi: 10.1186/1475-2875-5-69.
Copyright 2006 Clark et al; licensee BioMed Central Ltd.

Absence of erythrocyte sequestration in a case of babesiosis in a splenectomized human patient
Ian A Clark,1 Alison C Budd,1 Gunther Hsue,2 Bret R Haymore,2 Alina J Joyce,2 Richard Thorner,3 and Peter J Krause4

1School of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology Australian National University, Canberra, ACT 0200, Australia

Conclusion
This first report on the vascular location of B. microti in human tissue suggests that severe multi-organ failure due to babesiosis ***is independent of sequestration of parasitized erythrocytes. (...) **** complications of human B. microti infection could, therefore, prove to be mediated by the ****same inflammatory processes as are accepted for bacterial sepsis and severe influenza [12]..

Posts: 416 | From france | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
gopats
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 5218

Icon 1 posted      Profile for gopats     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
POLAR BLAST - same thing. I was on Mepron and zithromax. My ears hurt right before my brain registerd the phone rang. I went to the hospital after I lost bladder control. My temp was 95.4. Doc is toying with herx or Mepron toxicity. Thyroid was out.

I didn't sleep for 4 days I felt that someone was jumping out and saying boo - extra adrenaline rush. I thought I was having a seizure.

But I wasn't. Doc is changing meds and now wants me to try iv antibiotics in a few weeks. I was getting really upset because I thought I was going die and not see my family again. I still don't feel out of the woods,I have been and tremors everywhere. Really tight in my chest. A bit of tachycardia. This has been going on since Thursday for me.

Posts: 298 | From Maine | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
polar blast
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 9142

Icon 1 posted      Profile for polar blast     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I slep last night and this morning feel a little better..the sleep is kind of funny..i have to sleep on my side..i am going to try to get an mri today...hope it is all ok...
eric

Posts: 593 | From long island ny | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
polar blast
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 9142

Icon 1 posted      Profile for polar blast     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
what is hypoxia?
eric

Posts: 593 | From long island ny | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
bigmamma
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 7181

Icon 1 posted      Profile for bigmamma     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Did you get an MRI Eric?

--------------------
 - Some day, this mamma's gonna dance!  -

Posts: 199 | From here | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
NatalieA
Member
Member # 7714

Icon 1 posted      Profile for NatalieA     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi Eric- sorry to hear what you are going through. I know it's scary. If it's any consolation, when I got sick in July of 05 and didn't think it could get any worse, it did soon after I started my antibiotics and started to "herx." I had a few bad episodes and one in particular where I was in my bathroom and my legs would no longer even hold me up, my heart was beating so fast, I couldn't breathe, and yes I thought I was going to die. I was talking to God at that point and telling him to please take care of my kids.... It was that bad. So although I don't know exactly what you are going through, I know that feeling. Well, I got through it and only had one or two more that were that bad.
That was over a year ago, and I'm still around! Not completely better by far, but much better than I was so that's a great thing. YOU hang in there! [Smile]
Natalie

Posts: 87 | From Clarksburg, NJ, Monmouth | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
polar blast
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 9142

Icon 1 posted      Profile for polar blast     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
mri is clear...also brain stem is to evoked potential is too...
eric

Posts: 593 | From long island ny | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | LymeNet home page | Privacy Statement

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:

The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey
907 Pebble Creek Court, Pennington, NJ 08534 USA


| Flash Discussion | Support Groups | On-Line Library
Legal Resources | Medical Abstracts | Newsletter | Books
Pictures | Site Search | Links | Help/Questions
About LymeNet | Contact Us

© 1993-2020 The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
Use of the LymeNet Site is subject to Terms and Conditions.