LymeNet Home LymeNet Home Page LymeNet Flash Discussion LymeNet Support Group Database LymeNet Literature Library LymeNet Legal Resources LymeNet Medical & Scientific Abstract Database LymeNet Newsletter Home Page LymeNet Recommended Books LymeNet Tick Pictures Search The LymeNet Site LymeNet Links LymeNet Frequently Asked Questions About The Lyme Disease Network LymeNet Menu

LymeNet on Facebook

LymeNet on Twitter




The Lyme Disease Network receives a commission from Amazon.com for each purchase originating from this site.

When purchasing from Amazon.com, please
click here first.

Thank you.

LymeNet Flash Discussion
Dedicated to the Bachmann Family

LymeNet needs your help:
LymeNet 2020 fund drive


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations.

LymeNet Flash Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » If systemic candida, must I stop antibiotics?

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: If systemic candida, must I stop antibiotics?
Jill E.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9121

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Jill E.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi everyone,

My LLMD is having me tested for systemic candida because of onset of brain fog, headaches, reacting to supplements and food, abdominal stuff, etc. I have no thrush.

He is ordering a blood test. Years ago, pre-Lyme, when I had systemic candida, my holistic MD ordered blood and stool tests. What do you recommend? Is it important to find out which strain it is? Does Genova (Great Smokies)do that?

The only abx I'm on right now is IM Bicillin.

I've been sailing through two years of Lyme and coinfection treatment with no yeast issues - I use probiotics, s. boulardii, garlic, olive leaf extract, etc.

But I fell off the diet wagon due to terrible stress (my elderly dad was bitten this summer and now has Lyme. I'm chronic).

For those of you who've battled systemic yeast, did you have to go off antibiotics until recovered?

I had to go off abx for five months from liver damage from Ketek and I backslid with symptoms terribly. Now that I'm back on antibiotics, I hate backsliding again.

I can't go on Diflucan because of my previous liver issues, although my liver tests are fine now. I've never tried Nystatin but I would think it's OK. I'm sure my LLMD will wait for my test results.

In the meantime, I don't know whether to keep getting Bicillin. I don't see my LLMD for a few weeks (hours away) but I'll try calling again. I need to be back on Bart treatment too but we were delaying because of tendon or liver issues.

I've printed out the diet from WholeApproach.com and will order the psyllium seed, bentonite clay, etc.

I battled system candida ten years ago but that was before Lyme and before antibiotics, so I don't know if antibiotics will be automatically ruled out.

I also asked my LLMD to have me tested for leaky gut because that was an issue pre-Lyme, too. I sent him the Genova info on leaky gut since he usually doesn't deal with it.

I'm sorry this is so long, and I've been reading posts from the archives. But I've had setback after setback with treatment, and now this as a possibility. And I have to work full-time despite feeling like heck.

Thank you for anything you can offer.

Jill

[ 21. November 2006, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: Jill E. ]

--------------------
If laughter is the best medicine, why hasn't stand-up comedy cured me?

Posts: 1773 | From San Diego | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Health
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6034

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Health     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi Jill,

I have had yeast issues as well, I dont think they were systemic though, not sure.

I have used many products for yeast, and wanted to point out this particular product...
it is homeopathic, and cleared up depression of mine within days that was candida caused.

It has to be taken for about 9 months, and can be bought alone without the other products at some stores, or you can order it from the company

directly.

It would not hurt to try it, it is potent, and effective, very effective for some.

Here is the site...

http://wildrose.com/products/specialty/6468.htm

It is good. I used diflucan and that was very good, too strong though, and will be going on it again, the diflucan.

This homeopathic product is safe.

Trish

Posts: 1250 | From Canada | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BostonLyme2005
Unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi Jill,

I too am on the yeast road. Some people do stop abx, but if you do, you must stay focused on the diet, that is more important than the meds.

The yeast can starve....That means we can kill it! Get the levels low again in our bodies! I hope your dad feels better soon.

I had my stool sample done at Great Smokies...It came back no signs of healthy bacteria and an elevated yeast level of 2+....

It was tested against Nystatin, and found to be senative....I take both pills and powder, also Threelac!

I am also now using Colosan, it is gentle and good...Drink a lot of water with it....

Call me!

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jill E.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9121

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Jill E.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks Trish and Rob for your help.

I know others have battled systemic candida. I appreciate all suggestions, particularly whether I'm facing going off antibiotics.

Thanks again,
Jill

--------------------
If laughter is the best medicine, why hasn't stand-up comedy cured me?

Posts: 1773 | From San Diego | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
micul
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 6314

Icon 1 posted      Profile for micul     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I don't think that it is necessary for you to stop abx. You should be able to recover from yeast issues by sticking to a "Squeaky Clean" diet and hitting it with Nystatin tablets and esp the powder. Do not get the swish and swallow. Make sure that your Dr understands how to write the Rx for it before you see him. Most Dr's are not familiar with it.

Don't worry about Nystatin being hard on your liver. It is not systemic, and is virtually non toxic. It is not absorbed into the blood stream. If you do have a systemic yeast problem, you can still get it under control this way. I've been on it for 2 yrs continually now since starting abx. I insisted on using it to avoid the inevitable yeast issues that come while doing long term abx. Like the commercial says, "Don't Leave Home Without It" [Smile]

--------------------
You're only a failure when you stop trying.

Posts: 945 | From U.S | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
johnlyme1
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 7343

Icon 1 posted      Profile for johnlyme1     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I also had about 5 months of the nasty yeast issues. I swear by some kind of combo of capryic acid, orangonal oil, black walnut and Pan D'Arco in capsule form. I take 2 to 3 cap with each meal. I also did a number of colonics to flush out the primary overgrowth. Also Essiac tea formulas really help detox the colon and get it flowing corectly again. I am still on ABX but the yeast issues are not an issue for me anymore - thank god
Posts: 582 | From milwaukee wi | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lioness
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 10655

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lioness     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I too have systemic candida. Have as long as I can remember. I did not stop meds b/c of it. Instead used Diflucan and now Nystatin. I also use SacroB to keep up the healthy guys! The diet is one of the hardest but most important thing to stick to.
I have been pretty good lately. I even found a Yeast Free (and free of glucose, wheat and dairy) bread that I can use for toast and sandwiches!

My doctor sent my test through Quest. It showed Candida Ab IgG, Ab IgA and Ab IgM were all High (not sure if that helps)

The tests were done before the Lyme tests came back positive. So, we knew ahead of time that the long course of antibiotics would be an issue.

I also had food allergies, vitamins, minerals, etc. tested and treated as needed. And, I used MediClear with a strick diet in the beginning. (still use it once in a while to clease from all the toxins)

Posts: 240 | From MA | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jill E.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9121

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Jill E.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thank you, all, for your detailed and informative answers. This is incredibly helpful to me.

I'm doing the candida tests next week (waiting for after the holiday since things need to get FedEx'd overnight).

Happy Thanksgiving everyone,

Jill

--------------------
If laughter is the best medicine, why hasn't stand-up comedy cured me?

Posts: 1773 | From San Diego | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
groovy2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6304

Icon 1 posted      Profile for groovy2   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi Jill

Im not 100% sure but I dont think
you can have bad candida and not
have thrush - bad gas- ect.

Oil of Oregano is perty effective--

It will make you herx-so be ready-

No Carb Diet is Super Important--
No way around it-

There is a Candida site like LN
-Candida Connection- I think?

You will be supprised how many folks
on this site Have Lyme and have not
figured it out yet--

Many of these folks end up on LN
sooner or later--Jay--

Posts: 2999 | From Austin tx USA | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lymetoo
Moderator
Member # 743

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lymetoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by BostonLyme2005:
you must stay focused on the diet, that is more important than the meds.


I agree. I think you can beat it while on abx. Nystatin is very good and very safe. Do NOT get the liquid form, as it contains sugar!!

Are you sure you can't take Diflucan? My LLMD says he has NEVER had a Lyme patient with liver problems while on Diflucan [with Diflucan as the cause].

It is pretty safe really.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

Posts: 95255 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jill E.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9121

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Jill E.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks again, for the latest responses - all such wonderful information!

Next week I'm doing lots of tests per my doc: candida, leaky gut (my idea since I had that pre-Lyme, but also that was before I was gluten-free), pancreas and others. So even though it's yet more testing that insurance won't reimburse, I think I'll get some good answers.

Yes, I used to take oil of oregano and it is very powerful!! I'll have to re-start it slowly.

I'll check out the Candida websites you recommend. I've already downloaded much of the Whole Approach website, and I have all the old Dr. William Cook candida books and others from my previous battles.

I'm also trying to figure out if something where I live or nearby is triggering this...allergies, mold or whatever, given that those things can make one spacey and headachy too. My GI symptoms seem to have gone away, but not the head stuff.

I hate to cook! I wish a personal chef would come by and whip up some no-carb meals for me (yeah, I'd like to win the lottery too..)

Thanks again, everyone,
Jill

--------------------
If laughter is the best medicine, why hasn't stand-up comedy cured me?

Posts: 1773 | From San Diego | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jill E.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9121

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Jill E.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi Henson,

We're doing a blood test that's a new one for me (and I thought I've had them all!). It's from BioHealth Diagnostics Laboratories, and the test is called D-Arabinitol.

I am pasting in a description of the test from the BioHealth website. This is NOT through Quest.

Many years past, all the candida tests I had were through Great Smokies, and I mentioned that to my doctor. But I guess this is a new one and we will start there.

Thanks to you and Lymetoo who mentioned the concern about Diflucan and the liver may be overblown. I'll talk to my hepatologist about it, too.


From BioHealth Diagnostics Laboratory website.
D-Arabinitol: BHD #228 [Blood] and BHD #238 [Saliva]

Highlights

* First blood and saliva tests in North America to detect INVASIVE Candida
* Has been correlated with Gas Chromatography and Tissues Tests
* FDA Approved
* Requires Blood Draw - Fasting is Not Required
* Lab Processing time: 4-6 days

Overview
Invasive Candidiasis is a serious condition that affects thousands of patients. Candida is yeast that normally inhabits a healthy colon in small numbers. However, in many cases, the yeast becomes so prolific that it escapes the confines of the intestinal tract and causes havoc throughout the rest of the body creating a condition termed invasive Candidiasis. These microorganisms produce gas and toxins that irritate and can damage tissues, glands, or organs and severely compromise the immune system. Various autoimmune conditions are linked to Candidiasis, where cross reactivity (molecular mimicry) with human tissue and Candida organisms has occurred.

Other tests may not be reliable in differentiating between Invasive and Non-Invasive Candida. However, with BioHealth's new D-Arabinitol test health care practitioners now have the tool they need for accurate diagnosis, treatment, and monitoring the efficacy of treatment protocols.

How it works
The five-carbon sugar alcohol D-Arabinitol (DA) is a metabolite of most pathogenic Candida species in vivo and in vitro including: Candida albicans, Candida tropicalis, Candida parapsilosis, Candida pseudotropicalis, Candida kefyr, Candida lusitaniae and Candida guilliermondii. (Please note that strains of Candida glabrata, Candida krusei and Candida neoformans do not produce D-Arabinitol in vitro). The D-Arabinitol level is determined on serum or saliva by gas chromatography or enzymatic analysis. Positive DA results have been obtained several days to weeks before positive Candida blood cultures and the normalization of DA levels has been correlated with the therapeutic response in both humans and animals. By looking at DA, the direct metabolite of pathogenic Candida species listed above, it is possible to assess whether a person has invasive Candidiasis.

Clinical Use
The D-Arabinitol test differentiates between Invasive and Non-Invasive Candida. Results may be interpreted as follows:

SERUM
1.0 - 5.0 umol/l No evidence of invasive Candida.
5.1 - 9.0 umol/l Equivocal - Candida problem but not Invasive
> 9.0 umol/l Presumptive Evidence of Invasive Candida

SALIVA
3.0 - 9.0 umol/l No evidence of invasive Candida.
9.0 -- 15.0 umol/l Equivocal - Candida problem but not Invasive
> 15.0 umol/l Presumptive Evidence of Invasive Candida

Thanks again,
Jill

--------------------
If laughter is the best medicine, why hasn't stand-up comedy cured me?

Posts: 1773 | From San Diego | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lymetoo
Moderator
Member # 743

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lymetoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by henson2:
However: does Diflucan hit systemic yeast? Or just yeast that is, you know, where a "yeast infection" is?? I honestly didn't know Diflucan could help systemically.


Yes! For sure!

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

Posts: 95255 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
johnlyme1
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 7343

Icon 1 posted      Profile for johnlyme1     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
There is one other thought I have about difucon, yes it can be very effective to knock down a big overgrowth, I have used it 2 times for 3 days each. But I want to save the effectiveness of difucon for when I am really at the point of begin off major ABX. I sure would hate to lose the effectiveness of difucon due to using it a lot durring treatment. I don't know if what I have heard from some, that they experienced a loss of effectiveness from bing on it too much.
Posts: 582 | From milwaukee wi | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
trueblue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7348

Icon 1 posted      Profile for trueblue     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi Jill,
I just wanted to give you my experiences treating fungal infections. I have Hep C and even though there doesn;t seem to be many changes in the liver.

My docs are unlikely to give me Diflucan or Nizoral along with other meds.

I haven't tried Nystatin but I know that is much easier liver-wise.

Anyway, long story even longer...
I have, at times, stopped ABX for 2 weeks, then taken 2 weeks of Nizoral (Diflucan doesn't work on me). It was very easy to beat back the fungus that way and you aren't off ABX for very long.

I'm just thinking it "might" be easier. It wouldn't be like being off your ABX for months like before.


Not to say you can't or shouldn't take care of it while on ABX. I'm sure it's possible but my diet is not that clean and have a hard time adhering to it.


Also when on an ABX break I have boiled up a decoction of pau d'arca tea, iced it and drank it for 3 days. I had a surprisingly intense die-off for 3 of days and then was good. (Do not do this without checking with the heptologist, I'm not sure if you take a lot of this if it can be a drain on the liver.) Doesn't taste bad though.


Either way, I hope you get it cleared up and are feeling better soon.

--------------------
more light, more love
more truth and more innovation

Posts: 3783 | From somewhere other than here | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Aniek
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5374

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Aniek     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Diflucan and other antifungals seemed to stop working for me. Plus, we wanted to get me off as much medicine as possible because my system has been overloaded.

My alternative doc had me start taking Cumanda. It's an herbal supplement that is part of the Cowden protocol for Lyme. It is also antifungal, and it seems to be working really well for me.

--------------------
"When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison

Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | LymeNet home page | Privacy Statement

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:

The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey
907 Pebble Creek Court, Pennington, NJ 08534 USA


| Flash Discussion | Support Groups | On-Line Library
Legal Resources | Medical Abstracts | Newsletter | Books
Pictures | Site Search | Links | Help/Questions
About LymeNet | Contact Us

© 1993-2020 The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
Use of the LymeNet Site is subject to Terms and Conditions.