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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » CATS CLAW

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Author Topic: CATS CLAW
Ladylee210
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Is anyone taking Cat's Claw and if so how many milagrams a day?

What results did it give you?

I think I have read once here that Cat's Claw is kinda old around here now, however I do know of a well known NJ Doc who is still recommending it.

Another question - high cholestoral (sp) any suggestions - rather then the prescription meds out there?

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SForsgren
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I take RainTree Cat's Claw capsules. 500mg caps 12-16 caps per day.

--------------------
Be well,
Scott

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MariaA
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Cats' Claw is a major component of Stephen Buhner's herbal protocol for Lyme, which is described in his book Healing Lyme. I take four capsules four times a day as part of this protocol.

--------------------
Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!

Find me at Lymefriends, I post under the same name.
diet: http://lymefriends.ning.com/group/healthylowcarbrecipes
Homemade Probiotics thread
Herbal Links Thread

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Ladylee210
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12 - 16 500mgs a day?

Wow that is alot, how long on this and any results?

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Ladylee210
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Maria ....how many mgs is each of your pills?

I'm at 4 a day - 500 each pill - 2000 a day.

I was wondering if this is enough?

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Lymetoo
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up

I would go with Raintree also.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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cantgiveupyet
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im up to 7 drops a day now and have seen slight improvement of symptoms especially with sleep.

Start off slow though, some herx if you do too much too fast.

Ive only been taking it for 2 months.

--------------------
"Say it straight simple and with a smile."

"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet,
But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."

-Schopenhauer

pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg

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ByronSBell 2007
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Cats claw is great for making you feel a little better and herxes in the beginning but in no way will it cure your lyme disease! MY LLMD has been in practice for 18 years and has never seen or heard of any get healed with cats claw, and if you have read those reports like out of 28 14/14 this 14 got better or well, that study was a fake. [bonk]
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karatelady
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Uh Byron ~ I think most people on here are
taking Cat's Claw as part of Stephen Buhner's protocol (using other herbs as well).

His book is called Healing Lyme and some on here have gotten better using herbs.

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MariaA
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My dosage, per Buhner's book:

4 500 mg capsules 4 times a day.

Buhner says to start with a smaller number of capsules and to go up from there (ie start with one capsule 3 times a day, increase to 2 capsules 3 times a day in a week, wait another week and go to 3 capsules, etc).

He also says to not take Pepto-Bismol (makes the herb not work), and says the herb can give you diarrhea in very high doses (3000-4000 mg at a time, which is more than I'm taking).

He lists some drug interactions (immunosuppressive drugs like cyclosporin), coumadin or other blood thinners.

--------------------
Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!

Find me at Lymefriends, I post under the same name.
diet: http://lymefriends.ning.com/group/healthylowcarbrecipes
Homemade Probiotics thread
Herbal Links Thread

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MariaA
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Hi Byron,

I hope you feel better soon.

The cats' claw is used in Buhner's protocol along with other herbs, and it's there to help support the immune system while the other herbs do some of the killing. It's been used by other Lyme patients along with antibiotics or with other herbs/drugs, too. It probably won't get you over Lyme alone but people say that it helps if you're doing something else at the same time.

--------------------
Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!

Find me at Lymefriends, I post under the same name.
diet: http://lymefriends.ning.com/group/healthylowcarbrecipes
Homemade Probiotics thread
Herbal Links Thread

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ByronSBell 2007
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I was saying cats claw alone wont heal lyme disease
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Ladylee210
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Byron, thank you for your response.

Nothing CURES lyme - but I am one that does not take antib. anylonger for lyme, I prefer to go the natural way as I have seen results in here and have good results with herbs.

I have been pretty much symptom free for almost 10 yrs now, but that doesn't mean I don't have lyme anylonger. I refer it to as they are just sleeping for now - at any time they could resurface again - and I would rather take the natural route.

Even tho long term meds are needed in many cases - I was one of them (treated for 8 yrs non stop on mega doses and or combo's of things) Eventually the body can and will build resistance and the antib. will no longer help - not to mention if you should come down with something else (another illness) and your body resists antib. your in trouble.

I also have yeast thru out my blood stream - it's under control but flares every now and then - still after all this time - it's a BEAST to say the least.

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JimBoB
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Hi I take Cat's Claw. I have been taking it for over 16 months. I am down to 6 "0" capsules a day. I was up to 12 of them for about 5 or 6 months.

You are right in that it probably won't CURE Lyme. But it does help with symptoms.

I take it because it is part of Buhner's CORE protocol, AND because it helps with the symptoms of Asthma and Arthritis, both of which I had even before Lyme.

Jim [Cool]

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Ladylee210
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Jim,

It helps with your breathing? Never heard that before.

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CaliforniaLyme
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The ONLY person aorund here who recovered w/o abx was this ONE guy who used ONLY cats claw and colostrum. He was never ULTRA sick, could walk fine, that is my dividing line for seconrdary and tertiary Lyme-can they still walk normal>?
He walked and spoke normally, no discernible illness in presentation. He was also the manager of the local Herb & Alternative Pharmacy place the Herb Room in Santa Cruz. But I do not believe it was a sales technique!!! I believe he was savvy & sick & treated himself before he got really bad- but also he did not have full remission last I heard- just helped him a lot-

anywayz- he is the only local person without abx who got significantly better that I know of-

cats claw & colostrum

I sent him email asked him to come to our group and share his protocol-
he didn't!!

was disappointed

Went to his store & bugged his clrek to give me the protocol because she knew what he was taking specifically-

beacuse some herbies in group wanted to try it-

they did-

none got great results one saw some imprvoement but more with abx-

--------------------
There is no wealth but life.
-John Ruskin

All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer

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JimBoB
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quote:
Originally posted by Ladylee210:
Jim,

It helps with your breathing? Never heard that before.

##

It helps with the symptoms of Asthma and Arthritis. I have had way less Asthma attacks since on herbs.

Not only Cat's Claw is good for Asthma, but so is Stephania Root and Smilax. I take them all.

I almost NEVER use my inhaler anymore. I used to use TWO of them every four to six hours.

Jim [Cool]

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hiker53
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I think I read in Bryan Rosner's first book that Cat's Claw sent lyme into cyst form? I may be mistaken that I read that.

Is that true? Hiker

--------------------
Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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hiker53
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up

--------------------
Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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SarahL
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JimBob,

The fact that you're not using your inhaler as often (or any) is probably helping your lyme, actually. Almost every inhaler given for asthma is a steroid and the concentrated dose in an inhaler is more potent than you might think.

When my pcp suspected lyme, she immediately took me off my inhaler. Even doubtful about Lyme as she is, she knew the steroids could wreck my body if I did have lyme. She suggested I learn breathing techniques and use eucalyptus oil to help relieve asthma symptoms. So far, so good.

If you were taking TWO inhalers every 4-6 hours, no wonder you were so sick! That's like inviting lyme to take over!

It's all connected - your lyme is out of control b/c you're pumping steroids in through your lungs, your immune system is trash and you're more susceptible to all infections, including of course, respiratory ones, which in turn make your asthma go haywire. Then you take another puff and... gah!

I'm sure you probably already figured this out, but this might be something a lot of people wouldn't think of.

You seemed to not connect your getting better with not taking the inhalers, so I thought I'd mention it.

Sarah

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JimBoB
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Hi Sarah:
I guess I need to clarify, that I was NOT taking them every 4 to 6 hours since I had Lyme.

I did years ago, but the steroid ones made me feel REALLY bad, so I had to get off of them.

Even the ones without steroids made me real jittery and nervous, so the only one I could take was the 3-M MaxAir inhaler.

Even that, I had to cut to the minimum.

So I was down to maybe only once every day or two.

BUT once I got on the herbs, I am down to maybe one shot of the MaxAir every month or two, IF even that.

I might point out, that I have been on the Sali-Pipe, (salt-pipe), that I got from England. It has done wonders for my Brohchial pains.

I believe those pains are from the mold at our "old house", and I still spend time over there. NEED to strip out the bathroom and redo it, soon.

Jim [Cool]

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Ladylee210
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JimBob

I use the salt pipe as well and I have noticed a huge differance in my breathing.

I have only been on the pipe since this past Dec, after a major bout with bronchiticis (sp) but I can say my chest related symptoms have gotten better since the use of the pipe.

I use my inhalers very little if at all - (I don't use the steriods kind).

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hardynaka
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Ladylee, I'm also on cat's claw 3 "00" capsules a day. Raintree brand.

I got down to almost no symptom around January this year. Stopped most killers then. Got some arthritis back 2 months after, so I'm back to B's protocol low level. Now I just got some lower back pain, but not permanent and not strong at all. And my chills that come and go. I suspect bartonella still around...

Buhner suggested about 1 capsule cats claw FOREVER after you get symptom free (probably in planetthrive). Plus Japanese knotweed. But somewhere else (in his book?) he suggested level 1 protocol of cats claw, if I'm not mistaken.

but I think this is all very variable from person to person. I would keep astragalus, cats claw (at least one 00 capsule) knotweed, sometimes sarsaparilla and andro).

Selma

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JimBoB
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Selma:
Are you taking Astragalus? I have bought a pound, but haven't started to take any as yet.

Wondering IF I should as yet with my symptoms. I have had the L.D. since 1999.

Jim [Cool]

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hardynaka
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Jim, yes I'm on astragalus these last days/ weeks.

I would muscle test astragalus in your case... If you have someone to do it for you. Buhner doesn't recommend it, but it tested good for me a few times. And he does recommend it in case of reinfection.

I'm on teasel (1 dropper), andro (2), pau d'arco (1 dropper), cats claw (3), astragalus (2), sarsaparilla (1-2 dropper), knotweed tea (about 10 grams, I think), artemisia annua (two teaspoons tea). I was even on Rizols, but now dropped this.

I have to see my naturopath so that she checks what I really need and then I can drop the rest. I just took everything to see what happens!! So far, so good.

It's the first time EVER I take so many killers at once and I feel just nothing, no herx, no bad reaction. The arthritis was gone rather fast.

I guess my load of germs is VERY LOW, even fungi!! I would never advise anyone with many symptoms to use so many killers as I'm doing now.

But in my case, I don't feel lots of toxins coming from killings... And as I don't know what to do now, as I don't feel a direct improvement from single herbs (because I got almost no symptoms...), that's why I tried this killing cocktail. Just because I'm lost on what to do next! I just don't want this damm infection to come back.

Fungal infection is also going away, I'm doing daily KMT sessions, different programs... I just don't know where to go from now on, so I'm glad to see my naturopath next week!

Now I see that the KMT is helping fungi too, but before, I thought it didn't work there... I wonder why it seems to work now...

I feel lyme gets hard to treat when we get close to be symptom-free, because I don't have a 'measurement'. My only symptom that keep coming is chill. I guess this is bartonella. Even my hands are now healed (I got rashes from November - March!). What a disease...

Hope your GI tract is also better!

Selma

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mag
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hardy,

What is a muscle test/

I can relate to the symptoms returning - It is like being on a rollercoaster; the symptoms return with a vengeance. I have nowhere to hide from them.

The bartonella symptoms keep returning- some time my eyes feel as though someone is closing them shut during the day-- and the keets are lurking in the forest.

Interesting that people still look at us and say, 'You look great". When I hear that comment - I am ready to scream !!

thx

mags

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JimBoB
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Selma:
I don't think YOU are taking many "killers" at all.

I am taking MUCH more as a maintenance dose.

Such as per day: 6 Andro, 6 Stephania Root, 6 Cat's Claw, 6 Knotweed, 8 Sarsaparilla, (don't consider that a killer), 2 Milk Thistle, (not killer either), 2 droppers full of Periwinkle Tincture, 1 dropper full of Red Root, 3,000mg of C-Salts, 1 vitamin A.

I have been out of Devil's Claw for over 3 weeks, maybe 4. Hope my new bulk gets here today or tomorrow, need to get back on it. Also will start Stephania Root this weekend in TINCTURE form. Been "cooking" it for almost 4 weeks now.

I am on my own as far as treatment goes. I did find the name of a muscle tester in our county, but her husband died recently, so I am waiting awhile to contact her.

Jim. [Cool]

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randibear
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i'm pretty sure that cat's claw gave me severe diahhrea. we couldn't igure out what it was but after i stopped th cat's claw, the diahrhea stopped.

wonder if anybody else has had diahhrea with cat's claw???

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do not look back when the only course is forward

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Ruth Ruth
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Cats Claw has been used in treatment of Crohn's disease and other bowel disorders. Seems to be beneficial, not the other way around.

Are you taking other things? Or could it be a detox?

People with Crohn's can't get good digestion because of ulcers in the colon. That is what my husband had. He used o-zyme for relief and it contains cats claw. It stopped the loose bowels for him.

--------------------
When I lost my grip on Faith in the maze of illness,
Hope gently clasped my hand and led on.

RuthRuth

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hiker53
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I got diarrhea with cat's claw. When I stopped the herb, the diarrhea stopped. Hiker

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Hiker53

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hardynaka
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Jim,

Wish you good luck with the practioner!

As for killers, I AM taking more than you, not in amount, but in NUMBERS of killers.

I'm taking core protocol + pau d'arco tincture + teasel + artemisia annua, all of this stuff are strong killers. I was even with Rizols on top!

You're just with core protocol + stephania!

I don't know if you ever treated candida/ yeast/ fungi, but the die-off reaction is as bad (or worse) than borrelia. At least, it was for me.

You're just a tougher guy than I and can stand more in amounts of herbs than I. [Big Grin]

Gotta go! Good luck again!
Selma

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JimBoB
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quote:
Originally posted by hiker53:
I got diarrhea with cat's claw. When I stopped the herb, the diarrhea stopped. Hiker

It CAN cause intestinal upset is some people.

I don't have a colon, so notice when things are bad for me right away.

I find CHOCOLATE the WORST culprit for intestinal upsets. It gives me diarrhea pretty bad.

You don't eat chocolate do you?

Jim [Cool]

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Marcie
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Does the Cat's claw have to be TOA free? Right now I am using toa free liquid drops, that are pretty expensive.

It looked like the Raintree product was not toa free, but a lot cheaper.

Does it make a difference? If not I would like to go w/ the cheaper one!

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JimBoB
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Buhner recommends the WHOLE herb, cat's claw.

I agree, why PAY though the nose for something that doesn't do you any more good?

I have ONLY taken whole herb. First ready mades, then after the first month or so, I have encapsulated the whole herb powder myself.

This is one instance when the cheaper one is the better one.

Jim [Cool]

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hiker53
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JimBob,

I firmly believe that chocolate cures all ills and is necessary food group along with wine and beer. That being said, I eat very little chocolate or the yeast beasts will return.

I did have some chocolate this weekend, 1/2 a beer and a glass of wine. Feel so much better [Big Grin]

Hiker53

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Hiker53

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darkness." 1John 1:5

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chootik
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JimBob or anyone else?

I am taking Samento as well and as mentioned it's A LOT more expensive than Cat's Claw.

The reason I take Samento is becuase they say it's better if you have Autoimmune disease (I have Hashimotos, thanks to Lyme!) and it's suppose to be Anti-Inflamatory!

But I read that here someone was saying the Cats' Claw was helping with their Arteritis.. so maybe it's all hog wash about Samento!

How do you guys know for sure if the Toa-Free is no good?

Thanks for the help.

By the way, I took Samento and Cumanda with Burbur for about 4 months and didn't see majore differences. Overall felt a bit better and got sick less often. I think I agree that it helps Lyme but DEF. can't cure it by itself!

Good wishes to all (:

Chootik

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hardynaka
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Some guys react better with Samento while others react better with cats claw. Besides, there are different brands and different sources of herbs. Wildcraft is better.

I find whole version is better and more efficient, but other people swear the opposite.

for this discussion, buy Buhner's book, he discusses there thoroughly (he's FOR whole herb though).

Selma

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chootik
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Thanks Selma.

I guess you've been using the Whole Herb.

I didnt know Buhner was so highly regarded. I do have his book and read it but wasn't sure if I should follow it?

I guess I can start on his herbs and see what happens.

Do you think one can mix herbs w/ABX?

Thanks,
Maryam

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JimBoB
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MaryAnn,

Buhner RECOMMENDS you mix the abx in with the herbs.

IF you can handle the abx, go for it. I could NOT. So quit the abx and have been on ONLY Herbs since mid February 2006. Feel much better without the abx.

Yes, Stephen Buhner is VERY highly regarded by those of us who have used his protocols. I sure am glad I got his book and tried it.

It is what keeps me going. Not perfect, but much better than when on nothing and also when on abx.

I strongly believe in following what HE recommends. THAT is WHY I woldn't even try the extract Samento.

Jim [Cool]

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JimBoB
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quote:
Originally posted by hiker53:
JimBob,

I firmly believe that chocolate cures all ills and is necessary food group along with wine and beer. That being said, I eat very little chocolate or the yeast beasts will return.

I did have some chocolate this weekend, 1/2 a beer and a glass of wine. Feel so much better [Big Grin]

Hiker53

Shame on YOU! [Big Grin]

Oh, yes, I had some M&M Peanuts today. Does THAT qualify for Chocolate?

Jim [Cool]

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jwf
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Recently, I've been skipping along symptom
free and decided to increase Cat's Claw intake
from 3-4 caps/day of whole herb to 16 drops
of Samento.

Wham! Big healthy herx. A couple of days
of arthritic symptoms, a floater or two, and
general malaise.

My conclusions: It's very important to
keep Lyme on it's toes and keep changing
your herbs and/or abx, and timing, ie pulse;
even when you are feeling just fine and test
negative.

Chocolate, especially semi-sweet dark,
is definitely a mood booster with few side
effects. We call it comfort food around our
house. Of course its easy to rationalize
(in moderation) when you know that it is just
chock full of antioxidants.

Blue Skies.........John

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hardynaka
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John, thanks for your update! I'm still learning from your experience.

I wonder if one day we will be able to stop taking cats claw and other killers... I'm in your shoes, varying from symptom free to some symptoms returning.

I also got light arthritis after 2 months on next to no killers. And herxed arthritis again after more than a year arthritis free. Cats claw IS clearly helping this time, so clear as it never did before for me.

Have you ever taken Stephania? Buhner is writing wonders about it. I'm going to ask to be ART tested for it today.

Did you have bartonela? If yes, what did you do for it?

Thanks again.

Selma

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jwf
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Hi Selma,

I see Stephania in Chinese medicine
is used mainly for arthritis but is also
especially good for your eyes.
It's available in the Seven Forest line
of fomulas.
Thanks. That looks like a good one
to try.
No, no bart, but my wife just tested
positive for a mycoplasma, so we're looking
at that.
Good to hear you are on top of staying
well.

Blue Skies.........John

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hardynaka
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John, thanks for your answer. Good that you guys don't have bart, it's a difficult infection to erradicate (in my case, it's taking long to kill it for good).

Mycoplasma... OMG. I have no idea about herbs for that. I guess Buhner didn't talk about that in his book, did he? Another good question for him.

I just came back from my naturopath who does ART.

She told me she only sees intracellular cysts of borrelia in me. No more active form, but the cysts may turn active at any time. That's what she thinks my light arthritic pains were.

She is treating me for only intracellular cysts then (of L-forms, I'm not sure), quite a complicate mixing of herbs plus supplements (galactose, MSM included). It's very difficult to make killers go intracellular.

Very surprisingly tincture of Pau d'arco tested VERY GOOD against borrelia in my brain. It's amazing, isnt't it? Stephania didn't test good for me for the moment.

But still andro, cats claw, sarsaparilla tested good. For bartonela, the knotweed tested very good too. Buhner is right on that point!

She gave me the herbs and supplements while I was there. It's so funny to feel the stuff I always took finally penetrating in my head. My vision cleared after a few minutes, my light jitterness went out. I got tired eyes lately, I thought it was a problem in my eyes, but not, it was probably a problem in my brain only! Another piece of the puzzle solved (at least, temporarily!).

I'm more clean of metals, but still far from clean, so I'm on that cleansing job still.

My lungs tested metal free for the first time. I told her nothing, she just told me: "well, you don't have any more any problem in you lung, do you?" Surprisingly, no, I don't.

My remaining chills come from a hypophyse (sp) problem, probably caused by metals and borrelia toxins. Recommended treatment is to get away from eletromagnetic fields during the night, at least, be in total darkness, then take all the supplements to help killers and cleansers reach my brain.

She told me my autonomic nervous system is wonderful now. She's confident the bad phase is indeed gone. Me too! [Smile]

Thioethers tested low, she said that when ANS works well, we can eliminate quite some bad toxins better. But she still found thioeters in one of my kidneys. I can't forget to take bear garlic tincture, she said, for kidney support... but it's better to have toxins in the kidneys than anywhere else. At least, according to her, they're trying to find their way out!

This disease gets more difficult to treat in the late stages, I find. Without my naturopath's help, I'm very lost on what to do. She is usually right, at least, I do feel I give a huge step every time I go see her.

Other interesting products that showed good action against borrelia cystic form: Biprolex, surprisingly! It tested very good for me! Such a 'simple' and unexpensive product. Not to be forgotten.

The more I go on this lyme treatment trip, I find it's rather easy to find borrelia killers in herb/ natural forms. But killing is not the ONLY problem in lyme... Far from that.

Please keep us posted in case you use the Seven Forest Stephania! Or any natural treatment against mycoplasma.

I know the KMT has a program against Mycoplasma. I never used it though, as I don't have mycoplasma.

Good luck,

Selma

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JimBoB
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I have been taking Stephania for over a year now, because some of my main symptoms are arthritis and especially the eyes.

However my eyes got real bad the past month. I was out of Devil's Claw and they went downhill.

When I started back on the Devil's Claw this past week it was like a miracle. They got so much sharper and brighter. Many times. BUT late at night they would still go blurry, especially if I spent hours at the computer here.

I am just about to take my FIRST Stephania in TINCTURE FORM, as soon as I finish writing this. I am hoping it will do more for my eyes than the capsule form. We will see.

I will keep you posted on IF there are any changes or not.

Jim [Cool]

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