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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » In Defense of Homeopathy (Page 1)

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Author Topic: In Defense of Homeopathy
Truthfinder
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The following article was reprinted in its entirety from the March Hpathy Online E-zine journal (with express permission from the author). The bold emphasis added is mine and some paragraphs have been split into smaller ones. The Hpathy E-zine has a current subscription of 15,500 and growing (and it's free).
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Defending Homeopathy -- Alan V. Schmukler

The other day I was reading about hospitals in Europe which use homeopathy. At the General Hospital in Klagenfurt, Austria, children with cancer are treated with homeopathy along with conventional medicine. (1) At another hospital in Austria, (KA Rudolfstiftung), homeopathy is used with newborns in the delivery room and intensive care units. (2) Children with profound mental impairment receive homeopathic care in the Rzadkowo Welfare Centre in Poland. (3) A study at Vinnitsa Medical University (Ukraine) atrial fibrillation was successfully treated using homeopathy (4). (The wife of a friend recently underwent drastic surgery for this same problem.)

Finally, there was the heartening research of Dr. Nikolaus Hock in Munchen Germany, using homeopathy to treat depression. He presented two cases of people suffering from depression who got no relief from drugs in over two years. They were each cured in five weeks with homeopathic remedies (Aurum muriaticum and Alumina). (5)

In light of all this, and homeopathy's massive accomplishments, it seems absurd that homeopathy is still being attacked by the allopathic (orthodox) establishment. If facts could convince our critics, the debate would have ended long ago. We have two hundred years of well documented clinical successes and scores of rigorous studies. We also have the fact that thousands of board certified physicians practice homeopathy privately and in hospitals and clinics around the world. That should be enough.

When homeopathy is attacked, the homeopathic community defends by analyzing the critics' arguments and quoting more studies. Such responses are important and admirable as far as they go, but homeopathy keeps finding itself on the defensive, so we need an additional approach.

There is an old saying, "A way of knowing is a way of not knowing."

Our detractors "know" that highly diluted substances can't effect physiology; therefore, they "know" that homeopathy can't possibly work. It is a belief, much like a religious conviction, programmed by their training and reinforced by years of propaganda.

It is not that people can't learn from new information, but rather that they avoid information which contradicts their beliefs. There is sufficient data supporting homeopathy to convince anyone willing to look at it. The critics of homeopathy simply ignore the facts, while repeating their mantra about high dilutions.

Last year The Lancet medical journal described homeopathic remedies as no better than "dummy drugs" (6) and recently, thirteen eminent clinical scientists in Britain described homeopathy as "implausible" and urged the National Health Service to stop wasting money on it. (7)

These "scientists" are on shaky ground for several reasons. Firstly, they are not qualified to engage in this discussion. Imagine if the BBC article had stated, "Thirteen eminent clinical scientists, who never studied homeopathy, had no in-depth knowledge of it, and never tried the remedies personally nor professionally, described homeopathy as implausible." That would be ludicrous. Since when are people, unschooled in a subject, allowed to become authorities on it?

The opponents of homeopathy can't accept the idea of high dilutions and believe this aspect of homeopathy pre-empts all argument. However, that issue was put to rest long ago. There are numerous studies which demonstrate the effects of high dilutions.

They've been duplicated in other labs and were done under circumstances where placebo effects were not a factor; for example: high potencies of thymulin were shown to depress immune response in mice (8), Potentized cyanide of mercury, protected mice from toxic doses of that substance. (9) High dilutions of thyroxin altered the rate at which larvae change into tadpoles (10), and potentized Ruta Graveolens and Ginseng protected mice from sub-lethal doses of X-rays. (11)

All of that is quite available to anyone who honestly wants to know; but with a Cliff Notes version of homeopathy, the opposition marches righteously forward.

How do we change our opponents' beliefs? First, we must demand that they educate themselves as a condition of debate. What expert would debate his field with a novice? But that is what we are being asked to do. If we embarrass them into becoming knowledgeable, our critics may succumb to the fate of Dr. Constantine Hering, the father of American homeopathy, who became a convert to homeopathy in the cause of debunking it.

Secondly, we must insist that they actually try the remedies, because at the end of the day, we learn with our bodies. The world is divided into the haves and have nots: those who have tried homeopathy and those who have not. Those who have tried it--the 500 million people in the world who use homeopathy--know that it works. They didn't decide that based on years of research. The people who disparage homeopathy, have no personal experience with it. There's no excuse for that, since this is not a debate about life on Saturn.

Homeopathic remedies are readily available. It would require no commitment for them to put a remedy where their mouth is. There is a proud tradition of scientists using their own bodies in research. Dr. Max von Pettenkofer drank a broth containing cholera and Dr. Jesse Lazear allowed mosquitoes infected with yellow fever to bite his arm. Surely we can ask our critics to try a little sugar pill. It seems absurd to argue about a point that can so easily be resolved.

Aside from their lack of knowledge and experience, allopaths who attack homeopathy are on shaky ground for other reasons. They often challenge our research, but their own is totally compromised.

Drug company money taints every step of the process. Pharma funds most of the research, controls the design of trials, directs the interpretation of findings and pays authors (often ghost authors) to write positive reviews in medical journals. (12) Not surprisingly, studies have shown that drug company-sponsored research almost always finds positive results for their drugs. (13)

What's more, the drug companies control what results get published, depending on whether they are favorable or not. The control extends all the way to intimidation of researchers. Not long ago a Canadian researcher was threatened with legal action by a drug company when she tried to publish negative findings on one of their drugs. (14)

Federal oversight and research is no better. The watchdog agency which should protect us, the FDA, routinely permits researchers connected with Pharma, to sit on drug approval committees. Almost one-third of the FDA advisory committee which recommended that Vioxx remain on the market, had financial ties to the drug industry (15). Dr. Paul Rosch reported that 94% of the research scientists at NIH were receiving money from drug companies. (16)

The result of all this compromised research is the release of drugs onto the market which are often ineffective and cause unspeakable harm.

The medical journals themselves receive vast advertising revenue from the pharmaceutical industry. Richard Horton, the editor of The Lancet, described the relationship between drug companies and medical journals as "...somewhere between symbiotic and parasitic." (17)

No one is watching the store, not even your doctor. You expect your physician to make sound judgments on your behalf; but, to hawk their wares, the pharmaceutical companies spend about $7,000 per doctor per year in the U.S ( some get much more).(18) Doctors are gifted everything from sports tickets to expensive meals and trips.

Doctors are also paid between $1,000 and $5,000 for each patient they enroll in a drug company trial. (19) Studies show that all these gifts influence doctors' prescribing patterns. (20)

I was recently in a doctor's office where drug logos embellished the clock, the calendar, the pens and writing pads, the floor mat and even the coffee cup. The only thing that didn't have a drug logo on it was the woman sitting next to me.

Our adversaries say that homeopathy is just placebo and that it doesn't work. We could quote more studies on homeopathy, or we could put their own medicines under the spotlight. In 2003, the vice president of genetics at GlaxoSmithKline cited figures showing that most drugs are ineffective for 50-80 percent of the people who use them.

In other words, most drugs don't work for most people. Drugs for Alzheimers and cancer were least effective, useful in only 30% of cases. (21) Aside from whether they relieve symptoms, these drugs can make little claim of curing any chronic disease. Whose drugs don't work?

Let us also remind our critics of their own safety record. A study reported in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that conventional drugs kill about 106,000 Americans a year, and this figure is limited to patients that die in the hospital, so the actual figure is unquestionably much higher.

That makes prescription drugs the fourth leading cause of death in the United States (after heart attack, cancer and stroke). (22) Just one single drug, Vioxx, killed more Americans than the Veitnam War. That comes from the sworn testimony of Dr. David Graham, a senior scientist at the FDA. (23)

The toll in suffering and death from allopathic drugs is beyond description. Samuel Hahnemann said it best, "This non-healing art has for centuries shortened the lives of ten times as many human beings as the most destructive wars and rendered many millions of patients more diseased and wretched than they were originally." (24)

Next time homeopathy is attacked, let us remove our opponents' righteousness by exposing what they're offering and demanding informed debate. They offer a medical system which uses tainted research, drugs that are not curative, don't work for most people and are the fourth leading cause of death in the United States. Let us insist that they educate themselves and that they actually try the remedies. "How many remedies have you tried?" must be our mantra. Then perhaps we can have a dialogue and share our knowledge.

References:
(1)(2)(3)(4)(5) Abstracts of the 60th Congress of the Liga Medicorum Homeopathica Internationalis :
http://www.thieme-connect.com/ejournals/confauthlist/ahz/404 8/grouping/5055
(6) BBC - Homeopathy's Benefit Questioned
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4183916.stm
(7) The Guardian-May 24, 2006 - A Clash of Cultures
http://www.guardian.co.uk/medicine/story/0,,1781756,00.html
(8) Evaluation de la dose limite d'activite du Facteur Thymique Serique - Doucet-Jaboef M, et al. C.R. Acad.Sci. 295:III
(9) Influence de l'administration de dilutions infinitesimiles de mercurius corrosivus sur la mortalite induite par le chlorure mercurique chez la souris. Cambar J, et al. (1983) Bull. Soc. Pharmacol. Bordeaux 122: 30-38.
(10) The metamorphosis of amphibians and information of thyroxin storage via the bipolar fluid water and on a technical data carrier; transference via an electronic amplifier. Endler PC et al. Fundamental Research in Ultra High Dilution and Homeopathy. The Netherlands: Kluwer Academic Publishers. 1998: p.155.
(11) Assessment of Cytogenetic Damage in X-irradiated mice mice and its alteration by oral administration of potentized homeopathic drug, Ginseng D200.
Berlin J. Res. homeopathy (4/5):254.
(12 ) Conflict of Interest in Clinical Drug Trials -Dr. Thomas Bodenheimer
http://www.hhs.gov/ohrp/coi/bodenheimer.htm
(13) Ibid.
(14) Ibid.
(15) Pharma Industry News Article Date: 26 Feb 2005 - 23:00 PST
(16) Big Pharma and the Ties That Bind: The Politics of Drug Promotion
http://easydiagnosis.com/secondopinions/newsletter10.html)
(17) Ibid.
(18) Stephen Cha, "These Gifts are Bad for Our Health", Washington Post, Sunday, July 24, 2005; Page B02
(19) see (12)
(20) Prescribing Under the Influence
http://www.scu.edu/ethics/publications/submitted/morreim/pre scribing.html
(21) Alliance for Human Research Protection
http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/03/12/08.php
(22) Journal of the American Medical Association 4/15/98.
(23) Testimony of Dr David Graham at Senate Finance Comittee Hearings
http://www.senate.gov/~finance/hearings/testimony/2004test/1 11804dgtest.pdf
(24) Hahnemann, Samuel. Organon of Medicine. 5th and 6th Edition, Trans.Dudgeon. India: B. Jain Pub.
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Alan V.Schmukler is a homeopath and educator. He is the author of Homeopathy: An A to Z Home Handbook . You can visit his website at http://www.healgently.com/
Questions and comments are welcome at [email protected]

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

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treepatrol
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quote:
Originally posted by Truthfinder:
The following article was reprinted in its entirety from the March Hpathy Online E-zine journal (with express permission from the author). The bold emphasis added is mine and some paragraphs have been split into smaller ones. The Hpathy E-zine has a current subscription of 15,500 and growing (and it's free).
# # # # # # # # # # # # # #


Our detractors "know" that highly diluted substances can't effect physiology; therefore, they "know" that homeopathy can't possibly work. It is a belief, much like a religious conviction, programmed by their training and reinforced by years of propaganda.

It is not that people can't learn from new information, but rather that they avoid information which contradicts their beliefs. There is sufficient data supporting homeopathy to convince anyone willing to look at it.

much like a religious conviction, programmed by their training and reinforced by years of propaganda.

Thats a really broad swipe!


I have absolutly no problem with homeopathy herbal treatment as long as they herbalists,practioners of such, Dont try to convert people to another God then rebuttles are in order.

God Bless

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Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.

Newbie Links

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Truthfinder
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Sorry, Tree - you lost me. But God bless you, too!

Perhaps I should have posted this first.........

What is homeopathy?

Homeopathy is a system of medicine founded on the ``law of similars'', which means 'like cures like'.

According to this system, the choice of the medicine is fundamentally based on the principle that the medicine must have the capability of producing very similar symptoms of the disease to be cured in healthy persons.

This system of medicine has been around for about 200 years, and is used extensively in other parts of the world.

Homeopathy is safe when properly prescribed. Unlike other medicines, homeopathic medicines usually do not have any side effects. They do not have any chemical action, so they do not have the potential to cause the type of damage we see happen from allopathic medicines. The doses are given in sub-physiological quantities, so they can be given to children and adults alike - and even pets.

What homeopathy ISN'T:

Homeopathy has nothing to do with herbs, vitamins, supplements, Rife, or even diet, except to the extent that a reasonable diet is important for general well-being for virtually everyone. Additionally, there are some foods and substances that may interfere with the action of homeopathic remedies, but not very many for most people.

Homeopathy is not a ``miracle cure'' for any disorder and, like any other field of medicine, it has its limitations.

Homeopathy is not a spiritual belief system of any kind (added from a subsequent post, below).

****************

Surveys taken between 1985 and 1992 found that the percentage of the population that reported having used homeopathy at some time for various countries was:

Belgium 5.8% (2004)
Denmark 28%
France 32%
Netherlands 31%
Sweden 15%
UK 16%
USA 1.7% (2002)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy

Tracy

[ 19. April 2007, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: Truthfinder ]

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Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

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clairenotes
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Preaching to the choir here, Tracy.

Oh and speaking of preaching... I have never worked with a practitioner who was particularly preachy about religion. But I do know that sometimes, some herbalists have a tendency to be passionate about their earth-centered religious beliefs (for want of a better term). Many herbalists were employed by a health food store where I once worked and were students or graduates of a local herb/botanical school.

I think that because our planet may be in danger, because of global warming for instance, but other reasons too, I can understand why these religions have become popular. But it would NEVER be appropriate or wise for any practitioner to try to convert someone to a different philosophy/religion, or even bring that into the discussion or consultation of health.

I have never seen this of homeopaths, who tend to be more neutral, in my experience.

Claire

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luvs2ride
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I am a christian. I learned long ago that when dealing with natural healing, I have to wade past alot of "mother earth" worship to get to the meat of the healing foods "GOD" placed on this earth for us.

Herbs grew that way and I find it VERY christian as my belief is that GOD created this earth. He created our bodies and designed them to live 120 to 150 yrs and to heal themselves when we take care of our "body temple" and he gave us the food to nourish and heal us. That others who have different religious beliefs also believe in herbs, diet, homeopathy, etc does not bother me in the least.

Like Claire, I have never worked with a doctor, ND or herbalist who attempted to convert or even discuss religion with me.

Most doctors are jewish, but we don't discuss religion either. My rheumie is agnostic but that is not the reason why I won't take his methotrexate.

Homeopathy is more science based in that it did not grow that way. No Homeo trees out there.

It is studied and researched and proven.

I myself lost ALL my migraines, hearing loss, short term memory problems and best of all the mental confusion I had slipped into by the time I sought treatment.

This didn't take months or years to correct. It only took 30 days. That was 08/05. I have never experienced another migraine (in fact, only a couple of times have I even had a mild headache since then)or other symptom mentioned above.

Now that is just my experience but it counts!!!!

I don't even know the religious belief of that doctor.

Luvs

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When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace.

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luvs2ride
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PS: Thank you Truth for sharing with us credible evidence of the good of a medicine that was so valuble to me.

Luvs

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When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace.

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clairenotes
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I didn't see this as a metaphor. I assumed Tree was referring to the fact that some herbalists place 'earth' at the center of their belief systems and philosophy, in lieu of the traditional belief that God is center. And sometimes these beliefs spill into individual health consultations, inappropriately. This can be offensive to some clients who only come for health advice, not for a new religion or philosophy.

Maybe she will step in if this is a misinterpretation.

Claire

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Truthfinder
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I wasn't quite sure what Tree was pointing out. Initially, I thought perhaps she interpreted Schmukler's reference to ``religious conviction...etc.'' as some kind of slam against religion, in general. I did not interpret it that way.

The first things I thought of when I read that portion were the deadly beliefs of today's Muslim radical extremists, and the same type of ``programming'' and propaganda that leads people into extreme cults like the Jim Jones group who all committed mass suicide. In that light, let's face it - not all religious ``convictions'' are beneficial.

Claire and Luvs bring up excellent points about practitioners who may try to blend any kind of personal belief system into their health practice, whether it is homeopathy or herbology, acupuncture or massage therapy, etc.

While we rarely see this happen with medical doctors, it is fairly common in other fields of health. Homeopathy, herbology, acupuncture and massage therapy are modalities that stand on their own as successful treatments, and they certainly need no embellishment with spiritual connotations that may be ``added'' by any practitioner.

I have found nothing in my studies of homeopathy that lead me to believe that the theory and practice of classical homeopathy is based on anything other than a novel concept of physics (and perhaps chemistry).

Like Claire and Luvs, I have not personally encountered any homeopaths who brought up the subject of spiritual beliefs, but I'm sure there are some out there. It would be wise to inquire about any concerns a person might have along these lines before seeing a homeopath.

So, I guess ``a spiritual belief system'' is another thing to add to the ``What homeopathy ISN'T'' list. [Smile]

Tracy

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

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luvs2ride
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I interpreted Tree's post as saying she did not like wrapping alternative care around pagan beliefs.

This is a common conception Christians have toward yoga, meditation, alternative medicine, etc. They stay away from it for fear of the pagan aspects. Yoga was invented by budhist monks. The original chants do evolve around budhist beliefs that God is found in each of us and by tapping into that God we become Gods. Or something like that, I don't profess to be an expert on budhism.

I practice yoga daily. I don't do any chanting with it, although I do frequently say prayers.

The point I wanted to make is that we don't have to be influenced by pagan beliefs in order to heal ourselves with alternative medicine. In fact, I feel this is the medicine God gave us and the fact pagans use it doesn't offend me at all nor do I fear being accidently converted. I just absorb what is useful to me and SOB that which isn't.

I too am sorry if I misinterpreted Tree's post.

Luvs

--------------------
When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace.

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clairenotes
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I was one of those persons who had every rare side-effect that might be listed on the back of a medication bottle. It was almost predictable. So I am grateful to have other options to choose from that have worked for me. Homeopathy has been a great adjunct therapy for lyme and has helped in other situations as well.

My only wish is that the medical profession would recognize that not everyone can tolerate, or get well from the medications/abx and allow other options to be paid for by insurance companies.

The fact that this does not happen does create some uncertainty.

Claire

[ 07. April 2007, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: clairenotes ]

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TNJanet
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This topic and the way that it has morphed interested me but I was not going to respond with any of my own opinions. Something bit me on the rear and I have to have my say.

Homeopathy or ANY treatment that helps people heal or even feel better for just a little while has my support.

I was a patient of an osteopath for a number of years before I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia. He was the sweetest man and he ended every session by touching my head and saying very earnestly, "God Bless You."

At that time I wasn't especially spiritual. That came later when God got my attention. I didn't mind that this doctor (and it turned out that ALL the doctors in this practice) practiced medicine from a religious perspective. I figured I needed all the help I could get. I learned later that this group of doctors were affectionately known as "The God Squad."

A couple of years ago, pre Lyme diagnosis, I went to an acupuncturist and chinese medicine specialist. His presence stirred up some very deep feelings in me....he was so humble and intuitive.

The acupuncturist never brought up any religion. But a few months into my treatments, I was having some type of internal stirrings and conflicts. While laying on the treatment table with needles stuck in me and gentle music playing in the background, I suddenly felt incredible sorrow.

I called out to my practitioner, sobbing and not knowing exactly why. Maybe it was pent up feelings of loss.....the losses that being ill had been bestowed upon me and the unfairness of it all.

The acupuncturist came into the room and touched my forehead. He seemed to be reading my mind. A few minutes later he said, "Ask for MERCY." and then left the room. Something in me clicked or popped.....a kind of clarity. What I needed beyond my understanding was MERCY. And to this day, I ask for Mercy.

I guess what I am getting at is that a few health practitioners in my life have approached my care guided by their beliefs, but they have not "forced" those belief systems on me. They have merely been authentic in their care. It would be impossible for them to leave their world view at the door of their offices before they treated patients.

I believe that it is wrong for anyone to force another to accept a certain view, especially in the case where a patient presents themselves to another for their treatment and they are in a vulnerable state.

However, when a doctor or other health care professional LIVES their beliefs, those beliefs guide their practice. The two examples I noted here were supremely special to me. They gave and I received.

Now as an aside, someone in this thread actually said that "ALL DOCTORS ARE JEWISH." That got my attention. Obviously, this person has not visited the southern U.S. where the only purely Jewish physicians are psychiatrists of the old school who still practice using the theories of Freud who believed that depression in women is caused by hysteria and unresolved conflicts in wanting their fathers as lovers. Don't EVEN get me started about THAT.

Healing happens at so many levels and through so many practices that it would be impossible to separate out all the belief systems possessed by the practitioners. I feel that the FIRST and BEST treatments come from those who have sworn to the oath: "FIRST, DO NO HARM." Now isn't that just WONDERFUL!

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DISCLAIMER:
No information presented above should be considered medical advice or take the place of advice given by a medical professional. Links to other sites are provided merely for ease of research.

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Truthfinder
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Neat story, Janet! I have had a few similar experiences myself. And you are right - you cannot completely separate a person's chosen field of practice from the spirituality within that person. After all, it is part of how they conduct their lives generally.

Cave, it looks like each of us came away with a slightly different take on Tree's statements.

Claire, I know what you mean. I ran across a statistics page that said almost all private European health insurance schemes and a number of American ones will reimburse homeopathy if prescribed by a physician according to standardized codes. (I could not determine how old that information was.)

Maybe Luvs has some knowledge of this. I think her homeopathic doc was also an M.D.

I'm not sure I want homeopathy covered by insurance! I want my homeopath thinking about treatment and cure, just like my doctor used to do years ago. [rant]

Now it seems that docs have to be more concerned with what insurance will cover and on top of it all, they have to pay somebody to take care of the insurance. Costs have soared, coverage has dwindled. I honestly can't decide what I would like to see happen. [dizzy]

A little about why homeopathy works:

Samuel Hahnemann - the ``father'' of homeopathy and a physician himself - said that doctors need to observe nature to see how natural healing occurs, and he points to several examples of how people with chronic disease were cured when they caught an acute disease that had similarities to their chronic state .

For example, it was noted that milkmaids who had been exposed to cowpox never caught smallpox, and so on.

The conclusion is that two similar diseases cannot co-exist in the same body . They repel each other in the same way that two south or north poles of two magnets coming together will repel each other, and you cannot make them touch no matter how hard you try.

The chosen remedy creates a similar "disease" state stronger than the presenting patient's natural disease. While the similar ``disease'' is stronger, it has no substance and is temporary; it serves to offset or ``repel'' the patient's natural disease.

Homeopathic remedies are not only similar but they are also energetic, as is the body.

Or, from another angle, Physics may explain it this way: When two waves of equivalent or very similar frequency merge, the same information or patterning in both is extinguished .

(Note: I have blatantly plagiarized snippets from the words of my own homeopath and from homeopathic books.)

So, whether we are talking about similar energies that repel each other, or similar frequencies that merge together, the result is the same.

Tracy

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

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luvs2ride
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TN,

I read your post (which was beautiful!) and saw the statement about "all doctors being jewish" and thought "Oh my gosh, did I say ALL doctors are jewish?"

I didn't. I actually said MOST doctors are jewish. Even that may be an exaggeration. I have never taken a survey or read where anyone else took a survey.

I am southern and have only dealt with doctors located in the south, many of which are jews. If you notice, as a race, jews are very successful in many areas of work. They are clearly an intelligent and resourceful race. As a christian, I believe they are God's chosen people and therefore the world hates them. Yet they have survived and thrived in spite of attempts to annilate them throughout all history and in present times. Who can look at their history and not see the hand of God on them.

I am currently working with 3 doctors, none of which are jews. So we can strike my most probable incorrrect statement that MOST doctors are jewish.

Sorry about that.

Luvs

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When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace.

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luvs2ride
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My homeopathic doctor was an MD. Anethesiologist to be exact. He was also a Certified Homeopath. When we first met, he explained he did not use herbs because there was no control on them and he could not be certain the capsules had in them what they claimed.

The remedies he used are FDA controlled and he liked that.

Understand this was a very knowledgeable doctor!


Luvs

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When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace.

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Truthfinder
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Luvs, so were any of your visits/consults with your MD/homeopath covered by insurance?

(I'm sure your remedies were not covered, but they are usually very reasonably priced.)

Tracy

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Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

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clairenotes
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I do like Janet's story, too and so I am glad we strayed off topic to some degree. I find that practitioners who quietly live their faith often have a stronger impact on me and has impacted my treatment, at times, in favorable ways. And sometimes the treatment itself 'forces' a spiritual state. This was true for me with TCM. Come to think of it... I do have some interesting stories, but I will save them for now.

Yes... there is a danger with insurance. Perhaps we would see a compromise in the quality of treatment. The homeopathics I use have all been (strangely) FDA approved, too.

You said:

""The conclusion is that two similar diseases cannot co-exist in the same body. They repel each other in the same way that two south or north poles of two magnets coming together will repel each other, and you cannot make them touch no matter how hard you try.

The chosen remedy creates a similar "disease" state stronger than the presenting patient's natural disease. While the similar ``disease'' is stronger, it has no substance and is temporary; it serves to offset or ``repel'' the patient's natural disease.

Homeopathic remedies are not only similar but they are also energetic, as is the body.

Or, from another angle, Physics may explain it this way: When two waves of equivalent or very similar frequency merge, the same information or patterning in both is extinguished .""

I hadn't heard about the concept of two like substances repelling or merging. It is interesting to think about and I will be sitting with those two ideas for awhile. Because I am admittedly a little (understatement of the year) scientifically impaired, this is how I have best been able to understand it...

The chosen 'similar' (remedy) enters the body and 'knocks' on the immune system's door and says, "Hey! Wake-up in there!! I am here and you need to do something about it! This puts the sleeping immune system into alarm mode so it can jump into action and go after the troublemaker and anything 'similar' to it, extinguishing them both.

A little more simplistic and much less poetic... I have to say it does feel that there is a distinct spiritual quality to physics, sometimes, when we are talking about merging of waveforms etc... Maybe the destiny of this topic is religion, after all.

I guess we might not get to know exactly what Tree meant, except to know that something was upsetting.

Anyway... thank you.

Claire

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clairenotes
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Oh yes... that is great to know, at least, that some people are getting reimbursed for homeopathic treatment. I wasn't aware of that!

Thanks,

Claire

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luvs2ride
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I honestly can no longer recall if his examinations were covered or not. The remedies were not. I do remember that in 5 mths I only spent $1500 total and felt real good about that.

Luvs

Insurance companies are dictating to the doctors how to diagnose and how to treat. This is very wrong.

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Truthfinder
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Luvs, your fees to your homeopath/MD didn't include any testing, right?

quote:
Insurance companies are dictating to the doctors how to diagnose and how to treat. This is very wrong.

It is totally absurd! And I'm afraid this is precisely what will happen if alternative treatments are covered by insurance in this country.

Claire, up to now, my understanding of how homeopathic remedies work has been exactly as you described: the immune system is basically given a wake-up call to dispatch the ``troublemakers''. Literally, it has only been in the last couple of days that I have read anything different.

I've wrestled with the ``wake-up call'' concept a bit because it seemed that if the immune systems suddenly wakes and becomes active, wouldn't that set off symptoms that we normally see when our bodies are fighting a major battle, such as fever, inflammation, swollen tissues and glands, etc.? Clearly, this is NOT what happens when you take a homeopathic remedy; 95% of the time, your symptoms simply start getting better.

Perhaps it is my allopathic (Western medical) view of the immune system that is the problem. We use terms like ``fighting a cold'' because our whole understanding of the body's ``security system'' - and therefore, allopathic medicine - is based on the idea that an opposite force is necessary to deal with a physical problem or disease. Even classes of drugs confirm this: We take anti-inflammatories, anti-histamines, ant-acids, etc.

But when we look at electro-magnetism, it is actually ``similars'' that create an opposing force, not opposites! And all living organisms are electrical in nature.

And that's about as far as my own lack of scientific background will take me.

And as my homeopath said not too long ago: ``Imagine having a whole medical system [allopathy] built on a misunderstanding.''

Good point!

Tracy

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

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clairenotes
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Perhaps there are different mechanisms occuring than what we are used to understanding. I think those two concepts, i.e., that a similar substance energetically to an illness can either repel the illness or merge and extinguish it, is very compelling. But perhaps there are still other homeopathic mechanisms that do cause immune responses or reactions as with more mainstream medicines, that is an expected part of the process.

I say this because though I have experienced both reaction and non-reaction, I really don't see progress with lyme, without some reaction. And this makes sense to me because the spirochete is a more complex organism, energetically and may need either a very strong force of energy, or something with more substance in it, be it plant substance as in herbal, or chemical substance as in mainstream medicine in order to bring it down, so to speak.

So my questioning lately has revolved more around how strong do the reactions need to be? How strong does the fight need to be? Where is the line crossed where there is a risk in trading one illness for another, etc. And, the most important of all... are there untapped remedies or medicines, which would help minimize reactions without compromising the core treatment? We know of some, but I feel sure that there are better ones not yet discovered.

I guess I have not seen the progress for myself yet against spirochetes, without reactions, but maybe I have just not been as lucky as you. And why do I still have the feeling that you are going to be a nobel prize winner someday? [Smile]

At any rate, I think there is still a lot to understand and a lot of potential in the air.

Claire

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There is a French homeopathist that has had good results treating Lyme disease from what I have been told. I am going to call someone soon that went to him for their LD and see what they have to say about how they liked their treatment but from what I have heard from their friend it went well. He is in N. Calif. in Kensington.
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Truthfinder
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Hi, Vanilla -

That is interesting. I hope you do make contact because it is difficult to find real people to talk to who have been treated for Lyme using homeopathy. I know there are many success stories are out there; it is just that homeopathy is not a very common modality of treatment in the USA (yet). And too often, homeopathy is a ``last-ditch effort'' to find wellness when a person has exhausted all other options and in a terrible physical state.

If nothing else, I think everyone who is on mainstream medical treatment should have some kind of back-up plan. I don't like what I am hearing about the number of LLMDs dwindling, and more insurance companies refusing to cover treatment. Unless things change, this is a reality facing all of us.

Claire, I just HAD to come back and post about your comment:

quote:
And why do I still have the feeling that you are going to be a nobel prize winner someday?

(*chuckle*) That has brought a smile to my lips many times since you posted. Thanks for that. [Big Grin]

As to homeopathy and Lyme, you are certainly right about the complexity of the problem. And up until now, we have been speaking more in generalities about homeopathy as opposed to the specifics of treating Lyme.

The questions you raise are excellent, and as a layperson, I can only guess at what some homeopaths might answer based on their own experiences with Lyme.

I, too, have had reactions and non-reactions in treating Lyme with homeopathic remedies. What I can tell you from my limited experience is that the type of reaction you have to a given remedy is indicative of what needs to happen next.

For example, I recently had a reaction to a specific remedy: I had the usual drowsiness and relaxation soon after taking the remedy, which is a good sign that the remedy was a good ``match'' for me in my current state. But a few hours later, I experienced a worsening of a few of my symptoms along with improvement of other symptoms. My homeopath taught me a simple method to stop the negative effects I was experiencing but which did not compromise the positive ``action'' of the remedy when it came to improvements I was experiencing. So, by analyzing the reaction, my homeopath knew what needed to happen next. And now I know what to do when/if it happens again.

And with treating Lyme, you always have interruptions! One thing gets better, and then suddenly, some other symptom suddenly flares out of control, or perhaps you catch a cold, or maybe you sprain your ankle..... in any of these cases, you need to suspend treatment of the chronic problem and deal with the acute problem with a new remedy.

quote:
are there untapped remedies or medicines, which would help minimize reactions without compromising the core treatment? We know of some, but I feel sure that there are better ones not yet discovered.

I think it's very possible that there are some effective remedies out there that we haven't discovered yet. After all, the symptom picture of most Lymies is an absolute nightmare! In most cases, there is no single remedy that can cover all the symptoms, and each of us has our own distinct set of symptoms. So, you treat the ``worst things'' and may have to deal with lesser symptoms later.

As to reactions to treatment, there are already solutions to most reactions I know about, so without knowing more about what you have experienced, it is difficult to speculate.

I would be interested to know more about your ``reactions'' if you feel comfortable discussing it. I always like to know ``what's out there'' that I myself may encounter at some point. [Smile]

Tracy

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

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Mo
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i'm finding the combination of classical homeopathy, oil pulling, chi machine and ayervedic style food/nutrition are working very well in for me.

it's really amazing how quickly some problems are resolved with the right remedy, and also how the more chronic problems ebb and flow to where they start to make sense.

the only time i have gotten into trouble with a "reaction" was when i was taking mercurius vivus,
and it seemed to create massive drainage, maybe of metals as well as bacterial - too fast for my body to throw off.

that's when i started paying attention to really moving the lymph, every day, i find that helps the remedies along and does not interfere at all because it is like getting good excercise, so no contradiction exists between the modalities.
it seems to assist in the body's own need to clear, as needed.

mo

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Ruth Ruth
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Makes me want to pull out my chi machine and get back to using it again... my wrists/arms complain when I move it and it was in a spot that my husband kept tripping over... so I stowed it away and it isn't getting used now.

Thanks for the reminder to move the lymph Mo!

--------------------
When I lost my grip on Faith in the maze of illness,
Hope gently clasped my hand and led on.

RuthRuth

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Truthfinder
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Mo.....

quote:
the only time i have gotten into trouble with a "reaction" was when i was taking mercurius vivus, and it seemed to create massive drainage, maybe of metals as well as bacterial - too fast for my body to throw off.

Are you talking primarily of mucus "drainage" in sinuses, nose, throat, lungs, etc.?

The only odd "reaction" I have had to Merc-v is that it often improves symptoms that I never expected it to!

I've heard that Merc-v is often an indicated remedy in Lyme Disease. I can believe that. I took it when I had a bad cold, and it not only knocked my cold symptoms but ended up helping some of my Lyme symptoms.

What's a Chi machine? Seems like I have read about it here, but can't remember.

Tracy

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Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

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clairenotes
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With the help of a good practitioner/homeopath, or even with the use of our own intuition or ability to tune in and pay attention to what is happening inside, I do think it is possible to find ways to minimize reactions, i.e., to be able to discern or at least know when to pull back from the chronic issue and deal with the acute ones, etc.

I suppose my angst about this comes more from my belief that so much more is possible for both those that cannot take abx for whatever reason, and for those that do take abx with respect to reducing reactions. And this may be even more important for those with neuro-lyme, in either case.

For instance, I know that there are some homeopathic injectibles that are being used in europe. Imagine the possibilities?!! Some of the homeopathic remedies I am using and having some success with for detox, could only be that much more powerful. That research is so limited here, in general, is disappointing. We have been able to put people on the moon...

Tracy, it sounds like you are working with a very gifted homeopath and it is nice to hear that others are making decent progress with what is available to us here, with little reaction.

I have heard many good things about chi machines (but not enough to be able to explain how they work in any intelligible way) and paying attention to lymphatic issues can only help. Also... merc-v sounds interesting. Will do some more research into it.

Again, thank you.

Claire

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Ruth Ruth
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chi machine = swing machine {pictures here}

I bought a used one on ebay. Came from a spa, I think. Pretty used up, but I saved $100.

I didn't really know what to expect, but it works by swinging you lower body left/right (as you lay on your back) to mobilize your lymph system.

If you do it for 15 minutes, there is this fun 'rush' feeling as soon at it stops.

My friend with lots of muscle pain uses it every night in order to be able to sleep.

I am not hurting as much and so forget to take the time to do it often enough. I'm glad Mo reminded me to get back on it.

--------------------
When I lost my grip on Faith in the maze of illness,
Hope gently clasped my hand and led on.

RuthRuth

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Vanilla
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I see a LLMD and I am on ABX and Malarone but what has helped me the most is my Tibetan Doctor and the herbs he gives me and the diet he has put me on. My LLMD totally approves of my Tibetan doctors protocol and says it is helping me. I fee l that it is. I am much happier for one and at the moment have no sleep issues. He is reasonably priced and such a wonderful healer I look forward to seeing him.
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Truthfinder
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Claire, I do think there are some amazing things being done in Europe. We here in the U.S. are so far behind! And even today, there is a language barrier that keeps us isolated from so much information.

I just finished the new book The Homeopathic Treatment of Lyme Disease by Peter Alex, a German veterinarian and homeopath (ND). (There was a thread about the book awhile back and I decided to order it.)

The author talks quite a bit about syphilis because there are many similarities between the Lyme and syphilis illnesses. Mercurius has long been considered a specific homeopathic treatment for syphilitic patients.

This author also found that during the 19th century, Aurum aresenicosum (a gold salt) was also used for the treatment of syphilis. Because Lyme and syphilis have such a close connection, and based upon his own experience, the author concludes that once a patient becomes symptom-free, either Mercurius or Aurum arsenicosum should be given as a ``concluding remedy''. Otherwise, he says, the danger remains that the disease will merely go latent, only to re-emerge years later.

Boy, wonderful to realize that maybe people who recover from Lyme don't have to experience a relapse like we so often see happen. I found that idea pretty exciting.

This book confirmed a lot of what my homeopath is doing and teaching me, and it also offered some new concepts and even some new remedy considerations.

RuthRuth, thanks for the info on the Chi machine. It is hard to imagine the movement you describe without seeing it, although the pictures were helpful.

Vanilla, sounds like you have two really great docs between your LLMD and your Tibetan practitioner.

Tracy

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

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oxygenbabe
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Tracy, is your homeopath helping you? Curious what improvements you have seen.

I had a chi machine once. You lie on your back and fit your feet into the indentations. The machine vibrates/moves sideways back and forth very quickly. Your entire body ends up moving and jiggling in a very pleasant way and I suspect it stimulates lymph flow. I didn't use mine much tho and sold it many years ago.

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Vanilla
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Truthfinder you are right but I have 3 - I love my acupuncturist too. He is now refering some of his patients to my Tibetan doctor.

When I finally get off of Western meds I hope to go to a homeopathic person in the Bay Area who specializees in the treatment of LD.

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bejoy
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Okay, so here's a weird one.

When I started homeopathic treatment for lyme, the healing crisis was severe.

My daughter, who had not tested positive or been treated yet with anything other than vitamins, suddenly got an obvious lyme rash on her arm.

I've never seen one of these before on either of us. To my knowledge she was never bitten, but probably got some lyme congenitally.

It leaves me wondering if my homeopathic treatment stimulated a healing crisis in my child as well.

Energy medicine defies my rational understanding, but I believe it has helped me tremendously.

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bejoy!

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luvs2ride
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Homeopathic remedies are powerful for sure. My doctor was also giving me one for my emotional state and boy do I miss that one.

I am confused about your post though. Are you saying your daughter does not have lyme? Then why are you giving her homeopathy?

Luvs

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clairenotes
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Bejoy -- sometimes people who are really close like twins or very close friends, etc., report feeling or experiencing the same phenomenon (not sure that is the best word). That is just the first thing that comes to mind. Then there is the coincidence theory? Like Luvs, I was a little confused too about whether your daughter has lyme or not. Do you suspect this?

Tracy -- regarding merc-v et al., I wonder if this is akin to Gigi's idea of using a lot of chlorella/cilantro tincture to clear out metals? She does believe that if we don't get these out, there will be relapses. Is this the same idea? Or do you think it is being used for other reasons as well, as the concluding remedy?

Also as coincidence, we are going to a practitioner soon who says that there is a substance such that if you don't detox it, there will be relapses. Won't know what that substance is until the appointment though. Had read something about cobalt being problematic, but I don't know if that is the substance this practitioner is thinking of.

I really want to read the book you mentioned. I saw the thread, but was a little brain-impaired due to increased remedies, and had to choose not to participate at the time. Technical or academic stuff is a little challenging for me but when this passes, I will look for it.

It must be very reassuring to know that your own homeopath is practicing and/or following the same ideas as Peter Alex.

I am really pleased to learn about this... seems like it could be easier somehow...

Claire

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oxygenbabe
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I think she's saying that she and her daughter may both have lyme but her daughter has not been diagnosed, and when she (mother) was treated homeopathically for lyme her daughter developed a rash suggesting they are energetically very connected.

However, may I ask, was this an obvious bullseye rash--with a raised red dot in the center, a clearing, and a pink/red ring around the outer circumference? Because if it was just a rash you may think it was a lyme rash and it could be any kind of rash. That seems more likely to me.

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I never noticed a center spot to my bulls eye but then again I could have missed seeing it and saw the rash after the center part had faded. I was quite sick and mentally gone at the time of the bulls eye.
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bejoy
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Oxygenbabe, you pretty much got it.

I tested positive on QRIBb, and negative on local ELISA and WB. (They don't test for the significant bands, I found out later.) I also tested negative by flow cytometry.

There is not question of my dx though, with a history of multiple tick bites in CT and across the country, and all the lyme and co-infection symptoms except the male ones. I've had some of it for 20 and some of it for 30 years.

My DC tested me by kinesiology and said I showed borrelia, babesia (I forgot which strain), and bartonella. He put me on the Bartonella Remedy.

My daughter's lyme tests came back negative, but we all know how much that means. She has several lyme symptoms, but then so does everybody, so it's hard to say if she was born with lyme or not. I tend to think so.

I'm just doing some gentle detox and vitamins with my daughter right now, but no lyme treatment.

I took the Bartonella remedy myself. The week after I started taking it, my daughter got the rash. It was two pink rings on her arm.

They were round, each about the size of a nickle, with dark pink raised edges, and lighter pink in the middle. No dark centers, but there was no bite either.

They didn't itch and were not in a moist area, so could not really have been ringworm. They lasted about three days, and then left a shadow for the rest of the week.

I have heard of people getting this type of rash after starting treatment. I think Marnie wrote something somewhere about a histamine reaction and how this happens.

Anyway, on my visit back to my DC after a month, I showed no need to continue the Bart remedy, and he did not find my daughter or me responding to lyme or coinfections by kinesiology. I did show a great need for liver detox.


Just for the record, I prefer gentle methods over prescriptions, given the option, but when I realized I had lyme, I went begging three different ID MD's for IM injections. Nobody around here would give me them or even consider a PICC line.

I already had such a bad case of candida at the time that orals were out of the question, and could only get six weeks of that if I begged.

My only option was to trust my alternative practitioners, or self treat with off shore meds, or fly out of state. I was too sick to travel, and I'm not up for playing doctor on myself with high dose meds that I don't know how to monitor.

If I still need medical help I'll go out of state this summer. I'm not all better yet, but so far I am amazed at the improvement I have experienced in a month and a half with complementary medicine.

Best wishes for your good health!
bejoy

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bejoy!

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oxygenbabe
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Thank you all.
Bejoy, sometimes when autistic children are being treated with gentle supportive measures, they begin to shed their viruses/strep/infections and the other kids in the family come down with strep throats or flus. So one can carry something and as it leaves the body, as it becomes 'active', other healthy people can catch it. However, I don't see how that would work with lyme [Smile] . So who understands the mystery.

I am in touch with a bioenergetic practitioner/homeopath. This is a route I haven't investigated before but he willingly let me talk to several patients and I'm convinced its worth going to him. If I see improvement I'll report back. He's not far from me so that's convenient.

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Truthfinder
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Oxygenbabe, yes my homeopath is helping me. My best evidence is the fact that since I have been consulting with her, I have only used allopathic medicines of any kind - including OTC meds - perhaps 5 times. This is a far cry from my previous experience.

I've had Lyme at least 20 years, and in my case, a full recovery may not be possible. I'm in this for the long haul based on what I've seen in my own household. I've had to deal with so many acute problems since I started, I've barely had a chance to deal with my chronic issues. But what I have seen is just shy of amazing. Even my dog is being helped with homeopathy. My cat, too.

Oxygenbabe, I think it's great that this new practitioner is happy to let you talk to some of his patients. That's usually a pretty good sign.

Vanilla, don't go and hog up all the good practitioners, now. [Big Grin]

Bejoy, what you described - your daughter developing a rash though it was you using homeopathy - could actually be some kind of homeopathic phenomenon. There are documented cases where the patient begins to have reactions to a remedy a day or two BEFORE they actually start taking it. Remember, we are dealing with energy medicine here.

More likely, however, I suspect that your daughter's rash is her body's way of telling her that it has something it needs to get rid of (Lyme). In homeopathy, skin eruptions and rashes are considered obvious evidence that the body is trying to rid itself of something harmful, or something that is putting the body out of balance. When you deal with the underlying ``something'', no more rashes.

It could even be a response to detox. When detoxing, one hopes that toxins will be eliminated some other way than through the skin, but......

I just started back on chlorella, and now I STINK! There is this funk about me that wasn't there before. It is coming out of my skin.

Claire, I've sent you an e-mail regarding the book.

Regarding the use of Mercurius (Merc-v. or Merc-sol. - these are interchangeable) as a concluding remedy in Lyme treatment, it certainly does seem awfully coincidental that Lymies usually have Mercury issues that must be addressed or the Lyme won't go either! I've found that with homeopathy, you end up getting what you need, but the route by which you get there is inexplicable.

In this case, the author's reasoning for the use of Mercurius and/or Aurum-ars. in cases of Lyme is to address the ``syphilis-like miasm''. For those unfamiliar with ``miasms'', my best, short definition of a miasm is: `An acquired or inherited set of weaknesses and susceptibilities.' The Syphilis Miasm is one of 3 core miasms in the homeopathic literature. Miasms are a bit like ``physiological baggage''. You can easily have a syphilitic miasm without having the disease of syphilis.

This author believes that Lyme should be classified as its own ``miasm''; only time will tell on that.

quote:
Also as coincidence, we are going to a practitioner soon who says that there is a substance such that if you don't detox it, there will be relapses. Won't know what that substance is until the appointment though.
Well, Claire, I certainly hope you will let us know what that substance is! I hate it when the last page of the book is missing. [lol]

Tracy

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Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

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clairenotes
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I owe much of my health to traditional chinese and taoist medicine/acupuncture. It really provided the support I needed in the early days of CFS until I could find the cause of my illness. **There was no connection made to lyme, unfortunately, by any doctors or practitioners back then. Otherwise, perhaps the treatment/s could have been more focused.

What I notice about certain homeopathic remedies is that there is or can be a kind of energetic vibration similar to what I might receive from an acupuncture needle.

And though I am taking mostly lower potency homeopathics of late, the higher potencies, which means LESS substance, actually seem to have MORE force. This is really where it steps into the realm of energy medicine. Because these higher potency remedies have little or no organic (or inorganic) substance. They carry only an energetic imprint or an echo of their former 'selves.' Where does that force come from??! It still astonishes me...

Because lyme can be transferred through pregnancy, does that not bring it into the realm of a miasm? Inherited disorder? Yes... a lyme miasm remedy would be nice, but lyme is so multi-factorial... somehow it does not seem possible.

I hope the mystery substance is something other than a metal, just for variety... well maybe not [Big Grin] .

Thanks for the e-mail, Tracy. Will check it later tonite.

Claire

[ 18. April 2007, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: clairenotes ]

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hardynaka
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I didn't read all posts, but I find it's nice that threads like this one are coming up.

Homeopathy is indeed used for much longer and for more people here in Europe than in the US. I use it for more than 8 years regularly, so I'm a sort of an adept of it too. It works wonders with children!

Of course, it's not a solution for everything. But it helps with many symptoms and even may cure some stuff amazingly (colds, for example).

And it depends on the practioner, the school he uses, etc.

If the doctor is an homeopath, the insurance will cover the fees but not the medicine necessarily, unless you have additional insurance. If the person is only an homeopath, not a medical doctor, I guess you have to try the additional insurance.

My homeopath in Belgium charges only 25-30 euro a visit. So it's really not a great deal. He's a wonderful person, a medical doctor, a lecturer, he was (is?) president of the Belgium association of homeopaths, and has long term experience with all types of diseases, but not much yet with lyme (unfortunately).

And still he charges so little. Another proof of his integrity, in my view. He doesn't accept new patients easily as he's fully booked.

He cured me of constant cystitic infections long time ago. My GI problem that was about 20 years old when I saw him got to about 70% better after a year.

Allopathic medicine could do nothing for my GI problems, NOTHING. I visited gastroenterelogists in 3 different continents, they were all the same, proposing the same inneficient treatments: anti-acids ONLY.

Time of anti-accid effect: about 10 minutes pain free, the rest of the day and night: constant pain. 24hrs/ 7 days week/ 365 days year. And they all told me not to come back, as I had nothing. Even gastritis didn't show up anymore!

Cystitis were only treated with abx. It took only one homeopathic treatment, and never more I got cystitis to this day.

So I do believe in homeopathy! It works for a few things for sure, in my experience.

I also found a good lyme doctor here in Switzerland who is an homeopath too, and he's treating my lyme with homeopathy. It's certainly a great help, even though he doesn't really do classic homeopathy. He uses the substances as a support to the organs, and the effect is amazing, so fast and so intense.

His fees are covered by my insurance. But not the medicine.

But all homeopathic remedies lose effieciency if taken longer (I never really feel they work for more than a month). So it's a constant 'chase the mouse' experience.

The cost of medicine here, like globules, is also not high. In Belgium, I find for less than 5 euro, here in Germany for about 7 euro, or mostly about 17 euro when it's expensive. Of course, there are exceptions though (more costly).

But in Switzerland, homeopathic medicine cost about the double of Germany, triple of Belgium...

Anyway, just giving you guys an idea of costs here for that. But there's still lots of people here that would never touch homeopathy because they think about placebo effect-only! So, it's the same here as there. The only difference is that there are more homeopathy users that believe on the thing here!

Selma

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Truthfinder
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Wow, Selma - I just had to come back here and say thanks for giving us a bit of an overview of what the homeopathic community is like in your part of the world. Many similarities and many differences. Great to hear that you have had many successes with homeopathy, as well.

Claire, you always bring up intriguing thoughts and questions.... I've been thinking about what you said...

quote:
Because lyme can be transferred through pregnancy, does that not bring it into the realm of a miasm? Inherited disorder?
I never would have thought of ``transplacental transmission'' as possibly having some connection to the miasmatic realm. It is a question I can only speculate about at this point since there are hundreds of books out there written specifically about miasms. My understanding of a miasm is that it is the ``shadow'' or the ``imprint'' of a disease, but not the disease itself.

But I think perhaps we are looking too hard at ``the organism'' as being the key element, when in fact it may have more to do with preceding derangements within ourselves as being the bigger factors.

Miasms aside, there is evidence that other ``traumas'' in life may greatly affect our vulnerability to Lyme, such as childhood Scarlet Fever, adult-onset of certain childhood diseases, chronic Epstein-Barr Virus infections, and the Tetanus vaccine, to name the ones I can remember.

I don't think it is coincidental that I had a very bad reaction to a Tetanus booster just prior to when I began having Lyme-like symptoms. I also had Scarlet Fever as a kid, and my EBV titers are always high.

Following this same ``path of coincidence'', Ledum is the top remedy of choice for prevention of Lyme after a tick bite - and for treatment of Lyme in many cases - because many of the symptoms of Lyme are found in the Ledum remedy picture. And what is one of the clinical indications calling for the use of Ledum? Tetanus .

It gets to a point where you just can't call it ``coincidence'' anymore.

quote:
What I notice about certain homeopathic remedies is that there is or can be a kind of energetic vibration similar to what I might receive from an acupuncture needle.
I've had the same experience with two remedies. In both cases, I woke up ``vibrating''. But only after the first dose, as I recall. It did not happen after that.

quote:
I hope the mystery substance is something other than a metal, just for variety... well maybe not... [Big Grin]

Yes, hard to know what to hope for in that department. Let's hope it is enlightening and not more confusing. [Big Grin] Don't forget to give us a report on that!

Tracy

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Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

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Vanilla
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Truthfinder I am a health practitioner hog and proud of it! I would be even more of a hog if I had more bucks to spend on it.

I will call the person who was treated by a homeopathic French practitioner in Kensington CA (East Bay) and post what they have to say. I heard thier results were good.

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treepatrol
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The theory of miasms originates in Hahnemann's Book

Homeopathy Wikipedia


HOMEOPATHY IN PERSPECTIVE Myth and reality

--------------------
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.

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treepatrol
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quote:
Originally posted by luvs2ride:
I interpreted Tree's post as saying she did not like wrapping alternative care around pagan beliefs.

This is a common conception Christians have toward yoga, meditation, alternative medicine, etc. They stay away from it for fear of the pagan aspects. Yoga was invented by budhist monks. The original chants do evolve around budhist beliefs that God is found in each of us and by tapping into that God we become Gods. Or something like that, I don't profess to be an expert on budhism.

I practice yoga daily. I don't do any chanting with it, although I do frequently say prayers.

The point I wanted to make is that we don't have to be influenced by pagan beliefs in order to heal ourselves with alternative medicine. In fact, I feel this is the medicine God gave us and the fact pagans use it doesn't offend me at all nor do I fear being accidently converted. I just absorb what is useful to me and SOB that which isn't.

I too am sorry if I misinterpreted Tree's post.

Luvs

Thats close enough [Big Grin]

a by the way guys and gals tree is a He not a she [kiss]

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Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.

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Ruth Ruth
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Thanks for clearing up that issue Tree the He ... I was a little confused by the posting from Luvs!

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Hope gently clasped my hand and led on.

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ibrakeforticks
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This would be Reply #48.

To be honest, I kind of skipped over some of the above. Sorry...

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clairenotes
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Yes... lyme is often too perfectly replicated as an illness, when passed from mother to child, to be considered a miasm. If only it were a miasm! A shadow of the illness might be a lot easier to contend with.

I do believe there are precipitating factors that weaken us and make us more susceptible to getting lyme disease. Otherwise, a greater portion of the population would be ill? That is an interesting story and connection between ledum and tetanus. I wonder how many stories actually exist of this nature.

The practitioner we went to see incorporates NAET into her practice. We didn't know this beforehand, otherwise, I think I would have given a resounding "NO" to this type of treatment due to past experience. So, the mystery toxin is actually different for everyone because the NAET people look at allergies as the precipitating factor in many illnesses. In my daughter's case, it is an allergy to chicken/eggs/feathers (anything associated with chickens), and also to ergot (a mold).

This does make sense to some degree. If we are always eating something that we are allergic to, than there would be some consequences... a weakening of the body overall, making it more susceptible to illness. And if not a precipitating factor, at least an obstacle to getting well?

So at first I was a little disheartened, because I was hoping for something more straightforward. But I do think there is some value in this. We have kept my daughter off dairy, wheat, sugar (as much as possible) caffeine, etc., but never really looked at less common allergies. And we thought that chicken was a neutral food for her, so it has been one of her staples [Eek!] .

Also... we believe that my daughter ate some moldy bread (long story) right before getting chicken pox. And she never gained complete health after that. Lyme sx began appearing within a year or so.

No one can ever draw perfect connections between things... but these are observations that seem worth noting.

Claire

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Truthfinder
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Oh, Claire - I just saw your post. I'll have to come back later and re-read it. I need to post this and be off for awhile.

Hey, Vanilla, don't forget to let us know what you find out.

Homeopaths are just like doctors.... in the sense that some are just a lot better than others. Always keep that in mind. Find out as much as you can about that particular person before taking the plunge. Since most of us are concerned with Lyme Disease, it would be wise to look for an experienced homeopath with a few years of practice under his/her belt, for starters.

Imagine trying to find a good Lyme doc by looking in the Yellow Pages! Don't select a homeopath by that route either. Do your homework. If you've been visiting this forum for awhile, you know how important that is.

Tree! Good to see you back here to clear up the mystery - finally! Uh-oh. Tree, I'm sure I'm one of the ones who incorrectly assumed you were a ``she''. This probably goes back to a thread where ``the knowledge of good and evil'' was discussed and I'm probably guilty of ``religious profiling'' or something. I hope you won't call the ACLU or anything. [Big Grin] Sorry about the mistake.

Tree, thanks very much for posting some links. You've been doing some homework! Although I have lots of links to webpages about homeopathy, there is literally so much out there that I think people find better answers by doing their own research on this. Only YOU know the particular questions you want answered.

I've checked out all the links, and I've read about a third of the information at the Homeopathy in Perspective link, and the author certainly takes a lot of liberties when it comes to arriving at certain conclusions. If you follow his logic, then we would have to assume that Freemasonry is at the heart of nearly every human endeavor since ancient times.

The author claims that Hahnemann - the ``father'' of homeopathy - ``was hardly a Christian'', and apparently, he bases this presumption solely on the fact that Hahnemann never referred to Christ or Christianity in his writings. (?)

Why would a physician devoted to writing about medicine and chemistry mention Christ?

The author seems to make a desperate attempt to imply that since Hahnemann became a Freemason, that homeopathy must be tainted somehow with questionable spiritual overtones.

I guess we would then have to conclude the same thing about osteopathic medicine (see list, below).

Are you aware that many Masons claim the ability to trace their ``pedigree'' back to - are you ready for this? - King Solomon ? Yes, THE King Solomon of the Bible.

If we are to believe that homeopathy is somehow connected to Freemasonry, then what shall we conclude from the following short list of famous Freemasons?

Dunant, Jean Henri - Founder of the Red Cross
Fleming, Sir Alexander - Invented Penicillin
Jenner, Edward - Inventor - Vaccination (Small Pox)
Mayo, Dr. William and Charles - Began Mayo Clinic
Still, Andrew T. - American Physician who devised treatment of Osteopathy

Booth, William - Founder of the Salvation Army
Beard, Daniel Carter - Founder Boy Scouts
Calvo, Father Francisco - Catholic Priest who started Freemasonry in Costa Rica 1865
Jones, Melvin - One of the founders of the Lions International
Smith, Joseph and Young, Brigham - Mormon ``fathers''

My PCP happens to be a Mormon, and his Medical Center that I rarely visit anymore - thanks to homeopathy - has a staff that consists of 80% Mormon osteopaths. Gee, according to the above list, this is a double-whammy when it comes to questionable influences.

Let me just state for the record that if I had found just ONE thing in my research of homeopathy that smacked of anything but ``medicine'', I'd be the first one to bring it to everyone's attention (right after I made an appointment with my D.O. so I could get the drugs I would need if I abandon homeopathy).

Bear in mind, too, that when Hahnemann conceived his concept of miasms, the idea of infectious diseases was just a theory! Little wonder that physicians and laypeople alike tended to suspect that perhaps some spiritual force was at work in so many cases of unexplained illness. Microbiology changed all that in the years that followed.

So, to quote from one of the links provided (by Mr. Tree):

quote:
Our modern sciences had their origin in less reputable activities: astrology fathered astronomy; alchemy: chemistry. Isaac Newton spent many years in the practical pursuit of alchemy........ In the seventeenth century mathematics was only just ceasing to be thought of as a form of magic. Modern medicine, too, developed painfully and slowly from less "rational" sources.

Tracy

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

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Truthfinder
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Incidentally, I see that I did not include a link to the Homeopathy 4 Everyone (aka Hpathy) website, which is where I signed up to receive the online monthly E-zine journal. The website has loads of helpful articles (some written by my own homeopath), and you can also view past E-zine issues. There are also some chat forums should you want to check those out.

For those of you who may not live close to an experienced homeopath, there are a few homeopaths who frequent the forums there who do homeopathic consulting online (using e-mail). You can get to know them by observing their posts on the forums, and you can visit their websites or e-mail them directly. Very helpful!

Rumor has it that Cindee Gardner, a homeopath who has written at least 2 articles on the homeopathic treatment of Lyme Disease, is writing another Lyme/homeopathy article which should appear in the E-zine in the next few months.

(One of Cindee's articles can be viewed at this website. Click on ``Articles'' near the top of the main page, and then I think Cindee's article is listed near the bottom of the list of articles.)

http://www.hpathy.com/

Tracy
(Note: I am not affiliated with the above website, nor am I promoting it or anyone associated with it.)

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Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

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Truthfinder
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Claire, I agree that there is some factor here that allows one person to become symptomatic from Lyme, and the next person remains healthy. How often have we seen this right here on LymeNet where an asymptomatic spouse comes back with a strongly positive Igenex test!?

The author of the Homeopathic Treatment of Lyme book says that 250,000 people in Germany are infected with Lyme Disease every year, and yet very few of them actually get ill. This confirms what we see here in the USA.

The author gives us more evidence:

quote:
I myself can remember, within the last 15 years having had an erythema migrans develop three times - once, 15 years ago, even with a hard swelling of the surrounding lymph nodes and an edematous engorgement of the underlying tissue. In all three instances I merely watched and waited, without treating myself specifically, or going for treatment.

I would certainly not recommend this procedure to anyone else - just show this to someone sick with Lyme Disease! - I must note at this point that until today I have not suffered any Lyme symptoms. This confirms the general experience, that even with erythema migrans, which is taken to be a telltale sign of Lyme Disease, there is still no reason to get sick in every case....

Wow. [Eek!]

When it comes to these ``odd connections'' that we see in homeopathy - such as the connection between Lyme and Tetanus in my case - I'm finding that this is actually the rule rather than the exception. It is these connections that tell the ``story'' of the person and can help the homeopath determine the remedy.

Can mainstream medicine do this? No, because docs treat each individual ailment as if it were an isolated incident.

Thanks for sharing the ``mystery toxin- allergy'' theory, as interpreted by the NAET people. Interesting, although one might ask what brought about the allergy in the first place? I've heard mixed reviews about NAET - some people swear by it.

In homeopathy, allergies are viewed as part of the whole symptom picture, not as causes for illness. And allergies can be very difficult to contend with in some cases from what I have read.

So, elimination of chicken, eggs, and feathers is the treatment, or is there some ``remedy'' they give to treat the allergy? How does this work?

You said:

quote:
Also... we believe that my daughter ate some moldy bread (long story) right before getting chicken pox. And she never gained complete health after that. Lyme sx began appearing within a year or so.
Claire, this is a very important ``symptom'' in homeopathy! It is called the ``never well since.....'' syndrome, or more often referred to as ``ailments from ....... ''. It is often very helpful to the homeopath! And you have to give yourself credit for recognizing the connection there because in the allopathic world of medicine, no doctor would think that your statement had any importance at all. But it does.

As you said, ``No one can ever draw perfect connections between things... but these are observations that seem worth noting.'' [Smile]

Tracy

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

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hardynaka
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Tracy, I know a lady, almost 70 now, that got a huge rash on the tick bite many many years ago (about 15-20 years??). At that time, no one knew about lyme. Of course, she didn't treat herself.

She's gotten a few bites here and there, exactly in the same area as my infected bite here in Switzerland.

She never developed the disease either. She's still riding horses at this age, without any equipment sometimes!! No saddle!! She works outside whole day, sometimes, doing heavy work, etc, most of the time in contact with nature and ticks. Without any single repellent.

Here, there are kids in my neighborhood that are bitten every summer. Last summer, her mom told me: "Funny, this year was a good year for ticks as my kids came with only 3-4 ticks the whole year". They're having innumerous bites since childhood, and no sickness in view.

Her kids were not almost not vaccinated, drink unpasteurized milk from local cows, etc. I don't think she uses repellent on them nor on herself.

My daughter got 3 bites her whole life, and got sick. I got a single bite, and got sick. So....

Selma

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Truthfinder
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Wow, Selma - you illustrated the point very well that there is SOMETHING that causes Lyme "sickness" other than just exposure to the Bb bacteria!

And it makes me a little crazy to think that with the right preventative homeopathic remedies AFTER you got your tick bite, you would not be here on this board!

This author claims years of success - with not one case of a tick bite causing Lyme symptoms - using his "after tick bite homeopathic preventative treatment". I can't remember if I posted it here or not! I'll have to look....

If I didn't post it, I will find it and post it for everyone...

Tracy

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

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oxygenbabe
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Hi folks...a few thoughts.
First, Janet Wais and others have done genetic studies in mice and it looks like your response to borrelia burgdorferi (inflammatory response) is very specifically related to genetic variation, very complex (ie many variants of response).

OTOH, there are forms of lyme--depending on the OspC--that ONLY give a rash and never proceed to systemic illness, because of the type of OspC.

AND there are coinfections and some of those are very difficult (babesia etc) and there is probably a genetic response. And the ecological niches for coinfections are very small--as small as a single yard, actually! Because mice don't move much from their place of birth, and even deer don't usually travel more than a mile from their place of birth. So neighbors down the block may or may not have the same ticks in their yard as you do (in terms of infections)

Beyond that, I do agree your toxic load really matters.

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bejoy
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I looked up some links on homeopath Cindee Gardner and lyme:

http://www.cindeegardner.com/boom11.htm

http://www.hpathy.com/papersnew/gardner-lyme-disease.asp

--------------------
bejoy!

"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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runcyclexcski
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I did not get a chance to read all replies, but I suspect I will be in the absolute minority here.

I am just as sick as all of us here, and I am just as desperate to get cured, or at least to get a relief. Being desperate is prone to be taken advantage of.

But I happen to be a scientist.

The dilutions that homeopathy is said to use leaves no active ingredient in the solution, since the smallest unit of a substance is a single molecule. I am saying "is said" because I took this information from online sources. So I guess I should say "if they indeed dilute their ingredients by that much, no active ingredient in left the solution".

Of course, in this case one has to "believe" in existence of molecules - but that "belief" is based on millions of reproducible experiments, and this is a good as we can do in our nderstanding of the world at this point.

After all, scienice is what gave us all antibiotics, HBOT chambers, etc.

Before science came about (say, mid-1850?) medicine was based on belief, and the life expectancy was 40.

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runcyclexcski
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I would like to add that I do not mean that all alternative medicine is a hoax, and that everything that is not based on science is a hoax. Active ingredients used in chinese medicine have been shown to have an effect, and can be purified and perhaps isolated as a defined substance.
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oxygenbabe
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Hi there run... [Smile]
I write about science sometimes. I spoke with a biophysicist a few years ago who was amazed that when manipulating the arms of the molecule that creates taxol, which stops cell division, (he was trying to create a better drug) he was dealing in angstroms--for instance, 5 angstroms. He said therefore that he had to admit that maybe the theory of Penrose & Hameroff had some possibility of being true--quantum effects in the brain.

I have no idea whether homeopathy works or is a sophisticated form of smoke and mirrors that utilizes the placebo effect (which is powerful) and retrospective narrative re-interpretation. However, it is possible that the signature of a molecule is more complicated than we realize and if so, homeopathy might work.

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Ruth Ruth
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To Truthfinder (Tracy):
Thanks for starting this thread. I am truly enjoying all of the different thoughts coming out as it develops.

Interesting: "...that there is SOMETHING that causes Lyme "sickness" other than just exposure to the Bb bacteria!"

To Claire, Luvs, TNJanet, Mo, Vanilla, OxygenBabe, BeJoy, HardyNaka:
So many interesting thoughts. And shared with so much kindness and respect!

HardyNaka:
Your comment about 'chasing the mouse' aren't necessarily encouraging, but I'm glad you shared it.

And I wonder from time to time, if placebo's 'work' ... then, why don't we use them?

--------------------
When I lost my grip on Faith in the maze of illness,
Hope gently clasped my hand and led on.

RuthRuth

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Truthfinder
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Wow, some terrific posts here and I'd love to explore some of them further.... but it has to be later since I'm out of time for this morning.

I'm putting together a list of 'after tick bite homeopathic prevention protocols' from several homeopaths to see how they compare.

Geographical location sometimes makes a difference on homeopathic treatment and prevention of "epidemics", and no one is sure exactly why..... so I thought I'd see what is out there, and from what part of the world.

Runcy, thanks for taking the time to come here and post. Maybe you can help me out with something. So, here's a question for you (should you choose to come back to this thread):

Runcy, what would it take for a scientist like yourself to believe that there is something to this homeopathy thing? What evidence would convince you?

I'm going to re-post an article originally brought to LymeNet last December by Karatelady. I think it bears repeating on this thread.

Tracy

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

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Truthfinder
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http://www.newstarget.com/001951.html

Homeopathy and the Memory of Water

Groundbreaking new research has just been revealed that establishes the validity of homeopathy. It's being called the "holy grail" of homeopathy, and it has been published in the peer reviewed journal Inflammation Research.

The study shows that a chemical dissolved in a solution (in such proportions that not even a single molecule of the original chemical could exist in the water) exhibits verifiable, scientifically proven biological effects. What this proves is that homeopathy is real.

There's something about the homeopathic water that is different from regular water, and the biological effects are undeniable and easy to verify.

This, of course, is not new information for those who have been practicing homeopathy for many years, or to those who are familiar with holistic medicine, vibrational medicine, or other forms of medicine that go beyond the rather narrow definitions currently defended by conventional medicine.

But of course, it is big news to many doctors, physicians, and western medical researchers, who have for decades insisted that homeopathy is quackery and that believing in homeopathy is the same as believing in magic.

They say that water could not possibly exhibit a biological effect if it did not contain a single molecule of a biologically active substance. But now, of course, the science is quite real, and this isn't the first study to show that homeopathy is proven.

There have been other studies -- well-documented and well-constructed -- that also show the same effect. But these studies have been routinely ignored, and even shut out by medical journals simply because no one can quite explain how homeopathy works.

To understand why this is such an important breakthrough in modern medicine, we have to go back to the 1800's and take a look at the origin of the so-called germ theory and how it relates to the invention of the microscope and the realization that disease could be spread by invisible microscopic creatures.

Today the germ theory is accepted as real and verifiable. But that's only because scientists and doctors can readily see these germs using microscopes.

Before microscopes were invented, any doctor who proposed that disease could be caused by a doctor not washing his hands and touching two patients in sequence would have been called a lunatic or a quack.

In fact, doctors did not engage in any sort of hand washing for the purpose of preventing the spread of disease until the germ theory became accepted.

The accidental father of the germ theory, a Hungarian physician known as Dr. Semmelweis, was fired and ostracized from the medical community in the mid 1800's for even proposing the idea that disease was caused by invisible, microscopic, undetectable organisms.

In fact, after fighting to publicize the truth about microorganisms for fifteen years, Semmelweis was declared insane by doctors and committed to an insane asylum. (Sounds a lot like modern medicine, doesn't it?)

In other words, in the history of medicine, doctors and researchers didn't believe in the germ theory for one simple reason: they couldn't see the germs. There was no way they could detect these germs, so in their minds, they didn't exist.

As a result, they continued to practice outdated medical procedures which actually resulted in the spread of germs from one patient to another.

Here's how this applies to homeopathy: today, the scientific evidence proves that homeopathy really works. No sane, rational person could deny it after reviewing the evidence proving the biological activity of homeopathic water.

But instead of denying the existence of homeopathy on the grounds that it doesn't work, modern doctors and researchers deny it based on the rather feeble idea that they don't understand the mechanism by which it might work.

That is, they don't know how it works, and therefore it must not be true. And that's about as intelligent as saying "We don't know how gravity works, therefore, there is no such thing as gravity."

Granted, homeopathy is somewhat mysterious. It is curious in the way that it works through the use of subtle energies. Apparently, water has a memory, and there's a fantastic book on this called The Memory of Water that will show you in great detail, with colorful pictures, exactly how water is reshaped by different energetic and emotional vibrations.

It's all quite real -- water takes on a different molecular structure when it is prayed over versus when angry people shout at it. Now, if you take a substance like the one used in this study, which was histamine, and you put a drop of histamine in a glass of pure, distilled water, that water, of course, contains a solution of histamine.

But if you dilute that by taking one drop out of that entire glass and putting it into another glass of water, then you have another mixture of water that is diluted by a factor of 100 or more.

If you do that over and over again and follow a sequence of increasing dilutions, you end up with a solution of water that has no molecules of histamine in it whatsoever.

But, as this study shows, this water retains the memory of histamine, and when this water is given to a biological system, such as a person or an animal, it will produce effects that are attributed to the histamine and that are clinically observable and quite unique to the vibration of histamine.

Of course there are many skeptics out there who will continue to say there is no such thing as homeopathy. They will deny the clinical evidence that's put right in front of their faces, and even if they were to conduct these experiments on their own and produce the exact same verifiable scientifically proven results, they would continue to deny it. Why is that?

It's because they don't understand it, and they don't have the imagination or creativity to suppose that nature might hold some surprises for us yet. They are people who represent the epitome of mankind's arrogance.

They think they understand everything there is to know about the way the universe works, and that nature is apparent and nothing new will be learned. They think that if you can't see it, it doesn't exist, and thus I wonder how they even believe in gravity or electromagnetism or quantum physics, for that matter.

Nevertheless, the end result of this is that the amazing James Randi will probably end up being $1 million poorer because he has been so foolish as to offer a $1 million reward to the first person who can prove the scientific validity of homeopathy.

Well, apparently this proof has already been completed, and now it will probably be a game of continued denials from James Randi in order to avoid paying out the $1 million reward. He will probably say, "Okay, the lab results look solid, but until you can explain how it works, it's not proven."

And that's how he will deny actually paying the claim to people who have now scientifically proven that homeopathy is real -- something Randi adamantly insists is untrue.

By the way, to comment more on good science, kudos go out to the editor of Inflammation Research, a medical journal that has demonstrated the courage to publish a pioneering paper that most other medical journals would have rejected.

And this again speaks to the closed-circle, dogmatic attitude of most peer reviewed medical journals. They define the so-called truths of modern science and modern medicine by selecting those studies and papers that support their current beliefs.

[Gee, does this sound like the IDSA or what?]

Simultaneously, they reject all papers that challenge those beliefs, and that's how things that are true but unconventional (such as homeopathy) can be kept out of the minds of modern doctors and researchers.

But this journal, Inflammation Research, was willing to publish a pioneering paper, and at the same time, the researchers involved in this study -- none of which were from the United States, by the way -- are also to be applauded for their willingness to venture beyond the strict confines of conventional medicine and explore the way the universe really works.

Let's face it, folks -- as men and women on this planet, we are but children. We are all students of the universe, just attempting to understand the way things work... and barely scratching the surface in doing so.

We know so little about the universe and about the way subtle energies operate. I don't think there's a single person alive today who truly understands the simple interaction of tabletop magnets, for one thing.

I don't think there's anyone alive today who understands quantum physics, and who can really explain how it is that the entire universe is made up of probability waves of vibrating energy rather than physical matter.

I don't think there's anyone who can really explain or understand how light can be both a particle and a wave at the same time, depending on how you look at it.

I don't think people can explain how properties of spinning subatomic particles can be instantly teleported from one place to another, regardless of the distance, without requiring any time whatsoever.

I don't think people can explain how prayer alters the health outcome of patients, even when the patients aren't aware that they are being prayed for. (This is called "non-local medicine.")

These are just some of the many mysteries that continue to present opportunities for open-minded, smart thinkers to explore.

Fortunately, there are some scientists who continue to be open-minded, and who are willing to ask these questions of nature, because that's what a true scientist does -- they ask questions of nature and they listen to whatever responses come back.

People like Dr. Stephen Barrett and James Randi are not scientists at all. They are, in every sense, feeble-minded skeptics who probably don't even believe in their own souls. I bet they didn't see this one coming -- homeopathy is real, folks.

It's been proven, and it's been proven in a way that meets the most demanding requirements of the scientific method. If you are a true scientist, and you review the available studies on homeopathy, you either have to conclude that homeopathy is real, or you have to conclude that every law of science and truth upon which modern medicine is based is invalid.

******************

The study they refer to was originally published August 19, 2004. The name of this article is Homeopathy breakthrough: homeopathic solutions proven to carry memory of water and exhibit biological effects .

The Inflammation Research journal may not allow public access to their articles. Many medical and scientific journals do not.

Also, bear in mind that I seriously doubt if the original research paper was done in the U.S. I suspect this comes from Europe somewhere.

Tracy

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

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clairenotes
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Emotions are another good example. I can't explain how this works mechanistically, but there can be a transformative effect even with the simple act of someone smiling at me when I am walking down the street.

Emotions themselves can fall into the realm of energy medicine,(and which may be behind the power of 'prayer') as well as contributing to disease, depending on which emotions are involved.

Claire

[ 22. April 2007, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: clairenotes ]

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clairenotes
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digressing to more mundane issues for a moment...

I am not quite sure what exactly the process is behind NAET, but I think that the body can create a hyper-response to a particular food or substance that is more 'energetic' (there is that word again) in nature. So NAET uses energy techniques to clear that hyper-reactiveness. My daughter `appears' much stronger since treating for ergot and chicken. She will treat for vitamin D (which I suspected was a problem), because it is such an important vitamin.

But honestly, I don't recommend this as it is too early to tell, and there was an earlier failure with NAET. I view allergies as a symptom... I have seen a reduction in my own allergies, and ability to process different minerals etc., with our LD rx. We will not stop using this rx.

I know that homeopathy looks at the presenting symptom picture and then chooses a remedy based on a substance that would show a similar pattern if taken in large quantities. This is how it could address a possible precipitating event along with other things if there are lingering symptoms from that event. And in this regard, it becomes more holistic.

Maybe one key factor in unraveling LD is determining the `never been well since...' phenomenon. My daughter did have low grade issues before the `moldy food/chicken pox episode'( [dizzy] ) controlled by limiting foods she was allergic to. But that may have been the event that pushed things over the edge.

Lyme may not be lyme without other co-factors?

I agree, Ruth, that this has been informative, with some really thoughtful contributions.

Claire

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luvs2ride
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Tree said:
by the way guys and gals tree is a He not a she

Oh...that explains it [shake]

just kiddin' [kiss]

Runcy, Thanks for your input. I wanted to share that I was told by my MD/certified homeopath that the energy is all that is left in the solution and that that energy is what works in the body. Kind of like when you stick your finger in water and cause a ripple effect. You can pull your finger out but the ripple continues and grows in size and number.

It certainly seems like strange medicine, but I can give my honest testimony that it helped me on so many levels and the cure, so far, (18 mths)is complete. What was cured were migraines I had suffered weekly for 10 yrs (since first Lyme bout) Also short term memory loss (also about 10 yrs) and mental confusion (8 mths duration)

It is great though to have you question and investigate with your background.

Thanks.

Luvs

Anyway, Truth answered it even better.

Luvs

--------------------
When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace.

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hardynaka
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RUTH, I just read your answer now. "Chasing the mouse" because you need to find a good homeopathic doctor to discover your substance of the moment. Alone, is really hard. And you need to keep changing, either potency or substance to make it always work. Not a diccouragement, just the way it is.

CLAIRE: have you seen the article Tracy posted (Cindy Gardner)? She said that one should keep changing dosage, that's exactly what my classic homeopath does, or the medicine loses effectiveness.

My lyme doctor also does that, but he uses muscle test to find out potency and substances.

I have the exact impression Gardner says, that same potency stuff works for about maximum 3 weeks, then loses effectiveness.

That's why for home made "serve for everything" homeopathic 'medicines', I would just mix a few potencies to try to get it right [Wink] , so that I don't have to be going to the homeopath to treat, let's say, an insect sting, colds, coughs... That's how Similasan products work (and many work well on my child!!).

My classic homeopath is though a non-believer on these over-the-counter products, but I am (not on all Similasan products, but on the colds/cough, they work!). Skin rash and tummy problems don't usually work in my experience.

TRACY: thanks for posting that article on Gardner. Very interesting. I took many of the substances in her list, plus others (like dulcamara for chills).

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lymewreck36
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O.K. Here's my two cents.

Took no offense to the discussion of "religion" as it has become referred to. Interesting experiences shared by many people here.

Let me say that I am in the South, that I am a practicing Catholic, and my husband is a practicing Muslim, of the NON fundamentalist sort. Never in our 20 years of marriage has he EVER forced a belief on me.

But recently I was sitting on a table of a homeopath having colonics done, and while she was massaging my abdomen to facilitate cleansing, she told me she had read "a book" on the history of Islam and Mohammad. Then proceeded to tell me slimy things about Mohammad's motivations with the religion, stuff I know is NOT true, but she declared was true because "she read it in this book."

I couldn't even respond. I just thought that the person had NO skill for critical thinking, evaluating sources, or sense of being appropriate during an appointment. It was very disruptive to my purpose for being there. And yes, she knew of my husband's faith.

I believe this is what is NOT welcome that all of you are talking about. Right! :-)

Mary

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clairenotes
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Don't think I could imagine a more inappropriate experience with a practitioner if I tried...

It is a shame you had to suffer through that.

Claire

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Truthfinder
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I'm still working on my list of Lyme prevention protocols. I'm waiting to hear back from one homeopathic lab on a specific remedy, and then I can post what I have.

Oxygenbabe, are you saying that the IDSA is even wrong about the fact that an EM rash is indicative of a Lyme infection? I honestly thought it was! [Eek!]

Fortunately, when it comes to co-infections, it is not terribly important to know which co-infections you do or do not have if you are being treated by a homeopath. While it is always helpful to have a ``name'' for any disease or ailment that is troubling you, it is certainly not essential. Even if you have no idea what is wrong with you, the remedies given are based upon the presenting symptoms.

Bejoy, thanks so much for posting the links to Cindee's articles. I did go back and re-read the first one as it has been awhile. Plus, I did not remember that Cindee did phone and online consulting - good to know.

Runcy, you are absolutely right: in potencies over a 12C (or a 24x), there is not a single molecule of the original substance left in the remedy. (Avogardro's Number - law of chemistry) I can certainly appreciate your skepticism.

But it gets even weirder than that.

It isn't just about the original substance alone. If you were simply to dilute these substances, say 1 part substance to 99 parts water as in the ``C'' or centesimal potencies, and do that 12 times, you would have a 12C ``potion''.

I say potion because without the process of ``succession'' or ``potentization'' that has to be done after each dilution, you get nothing. You don't get a homeopathic remedy - you just get water, basically. Succussion is simply the pounding or hard shaking of the mixture a certain number of times before the next dilution is done.

Here's an article from back in December. I got lost trying to read it. Maybe some of you more scientific types can decipher it - something about photons....:

Homeopathic Potencies Identified By a New Magnetic Resonance Method:
http://www.hpathy.com/research/Lenger-homeopathic-potencies.asp

RuthRuth, I had to laugh, but this is a terrific question, and a terrific answer when the topic of ``placebo effect'' is raised:

quote:
And I wonder from time to time, if placebo's 'work' ... then, why don't we use them?

[Big Grin]

Selma, you mentioned changing potencies and dosages; this is something I'm learning about as I go along. It appears that different homeopaths have certain approaches to this, and I'm trying to understand how it all works.

Four things are critical, not just the right remedy: Remedy, potency, dosage, and how often a dose is repeated. This is jut one reason why it is almost impossible to treat yourself for complicated ailments like Lyme.

I may have to try some of the mixed remedy/ multiple potency over-the-counter products for colds. I never have. Colds can be very hard to figure out, I found! But once you get the right remedy, you are nearly well almost immediately. Ask my boyfriend. He became a believer after treatment for just one cold.

Mary, I think I went a bit overboard with my post about the Masonic thing. So, hope that wasn't too offensive. I run into so many people who are convinced that this homeopathy thing just has to be connected to the occult or paganism in some form. As a Christian myself, I understand the concern.

I'm not exactly sure why a homeopath was giving you a colonic....? but I agree that she stepped way outside the bounds of professionalism. You are right - this type of thing should never happen with any kind of practitioner.

Here's a question I wish someone could answer for me:

Why is it that someone with a headache takes Tylenol and when they still have a headache, they say ``Tylenol doesn't work'', so they get some other pain reliever. But the same person might buy a homeopathic remedy from the health food store for their headache, and if it doesn't help they will say, ``Homeopathy doesn't work!'' and they will never try any homeopathic remedies again.

I don't get it. [bonk]

Tracy

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

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Truthfinder
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Oh, and what about that "placebo effect" thing?

I would almost consider that if not for the fact that homeopathics work on lab animals and pets - creatures that have no idea they are being given ANYTHING.

[Cool]

Tracy

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

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D Bergy
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I think of people that try and get a result from homeopathy and alternative treatments as people who "count the teeth in the horses mouth".

I once read that historians were puzzled as to why in ancient Greece they would have great debates on how many teeth were in a horses mouth when they could simply look. It probably was just an academic exercise done for entertainment but we do the same thing today disguised as science.

There always have been a group of people that are short sighted,dishonest or just disingenuous. They often debate furiously on the amount of room in the horses mouth and the amount of teeth in different creatures mouth's but do not simply count the teeth to see how many there are.

This is how you can come to the conclusion that only so many teeth will theoretically fit into the horses mouth when counting them reveals a different answer.

This is how many treatments are totally discarded.
Instead of a honest test to see if it produces the desired results there are reams of research on why it cannot possibly work. Great debates take place on the subject and huge amounts of money is spent showing how chemically, or using some other branch of science it is not possible. I personally like the statement "there is no known mechanism of action". Like the last word was written on "mechanisms of action" thousands of years ago.
This is the equivalent of saying that the horse does not have `as many teeth as you count because it is not scientifically possible.

The bottom line is we need to "count the teeth in the horses mouth" and then figure out why it has that many later on. Especially when there is no risk involved.

I believe that is where the term "strait from the horses mouth" came from. But, I cannot prove it scientifically.

D Bergy

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Truthfinder
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Great analogy, D Bergy.

[Big Grin]

At this point, I'm not sure we're even at the stage of agreement that it's a horse.

Tracy

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

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D Bergy
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Thats O.K.

I don't like horses anyway.

D Bergy

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Truthfinder
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Okay, here is a cross-section of after-tick-bite Homeopathic Lyme Prevention suggestions from various homeopaths.

As I've said before, it is my opinion that we should all have some kind of alternate plan for prevention and treatment of Lyme. Things are not looking too rosy on that front, with insurance companies refusing to pay for treatment and more LLMDs not taking any more Lyme patients for various reasons.

Because of the availability of some remedies in the U.S., you may have to put forth a little effort to obtain what you need for prevention. But I think it would be worth it. As we know, it is possible to get re-infected from a new bite.

We need options.

Tracy
******************************

Peter Alex - Germany

quote:
Until more accurate evidence becomes available, for the prevention of Lyme Disease following a tick bite we recommend the following provisions:

1. The tick should be immediately removed in its entirety.... there are tick-pliers readily available at the drug store or at the veterinarian's......
2. On the day of the bite and for two subsequent days the recommendation is to take one or two doses of just one globule of Ledum palustre C30 .......
3. Just to be sure, we give just one globule of the Aurum arsenicosum C200 on the sixth and twelfth day following the bite.

A number of colleagues have told me that in past seven years they have cared for more than a dozen tick bite victims using this or a very similar method, and that no case has proceeded to a clinical manifestation of Lyme Disease. Nor did it show up when a serum test was made.

Whoever suffers more than three bites per season should have stored enough information in their field not to have to repeat the procedure..... the layperson is advised to discuss the subject of repeated preventative doses with a competent homeopath.

*******************

Alan V. Schmukler - Philadelphia, PA:

quote:
1st day: Ledum 200C
2nd day: Hypericum 200C
3rd day: Borrelia burgdorferi nosode 30C . One dose a day for one week, then one dose a week for one month.

****************************

B. R. - Philadelphia, PA: (Case report mentioned in the Peter Alex book)

quote:
First day, Ledum 200C once (inset bite, puncture wound is cold and better from cold); Second day, Hypericum 200C once (nerve injury, trauma);
Third day, Lyme nosode 30C [Bb nosode] once daily for 10 days.

I have recommended this `routine' to over 100 people and not one of them reported back to me any further development of symptoms.

********************

Cindee Gardner - (I have no idea where Cindee is!):

quote:
In every case of Lyme disease Homeopathic texts suggest starting with a nosode (a remedy made from the actual borrelia burgdorferi) in a 30c potency. One dose three times daily is given for three days. If this remedy is given in the early stages, you can actually stop the disease from developing.
http://www.hpathy.com/papersnew/gardner-lyme-disease.asp

*********************

Ronald Whitmont, M.D. - Rhinebeck, Millerton, and NYC, NY (nothing specific here)

quote:
Cases of Lyme disease prophylaxis [prevention] pose a particularly interesting problem. The homeopathic medicine, Ledum, has been recommended by several homeopathic physicians for use in Lyme prophylaxis after a tick bite. .....

Several possible solutions present themselves in the dilemma of prophylaxis, including the use of homeopathic nosodes or the use of a constitutional prescription...... Neither of these approaches are infallible. Professional judgment on each individual case might prove more beneficial.
http://www.homeopathicmd.com/articles_3.html

(Dr. Whitmont has a website and is a 2nd generation homeopath, and he is also an M.D. This is his article about treating Lyme (and co-infections) - long article - scroll down for `homeopathic treatment' section.)

******************

And for our dogs....... Stephen Tobin, D.V.M. (veterinarian) - ``in a Lyme-infested region'' of the U.S.:

quote:
As a preventative, I use the Borrelia burgdorferi nosode 60X [or 30C], giving one dose daily for one week, then one dose per week for one month, then one dose every six months, the same way I administer all the nosodes I give in place of vaccinations.

I have had only one failure in almost two hundred animals so treated. This is more effective than the vaccine for Lyme Disease used in dogs, which often has the effect of producing symptoms of Lyme Disease, including lameness, swollen joints, lethargy, inappetance (lack of appetite), kidney failure, and cruciate degeneration (cross-shaped as in the cruciate ligaments of the knee).

I have seen no side effects from the nosode itself.

********************

Notes:
Ledum is the same thing as Ledum palustre ;

30C is the American potency designation, and is the same as C30;

There are a few sources of the Borrelia burgdorferi nosode in the USA, but it can only be purchased by a homeopath, a doctor, a chiropractor, or most naturopathic doctors; there is one U.S. lab that will sell it to you if you are under the care of a homeopath; however, anyone in the U.S. can order nosodes from Helios or Ainsworths in the U.K. (links below);

Aurum arsenicosum is a very uncommon remedy..... I can't find a U.S. supplier! Hahnemann Labs has one called Aurum arsenicatum, but I contacted them, and it is NOT the same thing so don't order it.

Helios in the UK (has Bb nosode and the Aurum arsenicosum ):
http://www.ainsworths.com/site/default.aspx

Ainsworths in the UK (has Bb nosode; they call their other remedy `` Aurum arsenicum ''):
https://www.helios.co.uk/index.html

(A British pound is worth a little under $2.00 U.S.)

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

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Truthfinder
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I hope Alan Schmukler doesn't sue me for quoting directly from his book without permission. Perhaps he will reconsider if I put in a good word for his book, which I own. It is probably the most comprehensive acute prescribing book out there. It is quite inexpensive and available at Amazon.com.

It is called ``Homeopathy: An A to Z Home Handbook'' and it contains helpful remedy tips for ailments you won't find in most other acute prescribing books. He covers the basic colds, flu, headaches, sinusitis, etc. but he also has entries for things like gunshot wounds, epileptic attacks, eye problems, fears and panic attacks, tapeworm, strokes, Scarlet Fever, Cholera, Anthrax, Encephalitis, West Nile Virus, Tetanus, and many other epidemics, plus a section on what remedies to have in a home remedy kit, etc.

In a world where we face natural disasters, terrorist attacks, and antibiotic-resistant infections, this is a terrific ``survival'' book. Or if you have kids. [Big Grin]

Here is an interview of Alan Schmukler by my homeopath last August which discusses the book and some of Alan's views:
http://www.hpathy.com/interviews/alanschmukler2.asp

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

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hardynaka
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Tracy, this is awesome, many thanks for taking your time and post this all!!

I'm going to try to find the Aurum arsenicosum (sp?) here in Belgium/ Germany/ Switzerland, will post here what I find.

A few questions:
1. Does Schmuckler has any suggestions against TICK born Encephalitis (a virus common here in Europe)? This is deadly or can leave a person with permanent brain/ nervous system damage.

My doctor suggest nosodes for kids, but only 3 tiny globules a day after tick bite, I wonder if this is enough...

2. When you guys say 'borrelia nosode', I'm wondering if it's like what I find here: hundreds of very tiny globules to be taken at one time?? With that amount of 'sugar' I could certainly make my coffee very sweet (just for you to understand the amount). It's quite a lot of micro globules to ingest in a single nosode (such globules inside a nosode are smaller than a sesame seed). Is this the same in the US? Is this that they suggest to take once a day (or even 3 times a day)?

3. One globule that they recommend is something that seems more like an apple seed or more like a sesame seed size? Here there are these two sizes.

When the guy says 'one globule', I NEVER saw any homeopath here prescribe in such a tiny dose. Never. It's minimum 3 'apple seed' globules, OR 7 'sesame seed' globules... Just wondering if the format is different in the US...

Thanks for any info Tracy!
Selma

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