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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Why preventing and treating YEAST is so important.

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Author Topic: Why preventing and treating YEAST is so important.
Lymetoo
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I've been thinking about this for a good while and felt I needed to post my story on this. I hope it helps someone.

Before being dxd with Lyme, I was dxd with systemic yeast. I felt MUCH better once the yeast was treated holistically.

I wasn't anywhere near 100% but I felt better. Because I still had problems with fatigue, pain and brain fog, I got an appointment with my naturopath's MD.

This MD turned out to be a well-known LLMD. He of course was well-versed in treating yeast!!

Had I not been sent to him, I doubt I would ever have been dxd with Lyme. Treatment brought out all the bad guys...you know the score!!

I had major herxes and felt horrible for the first year and not much better the second year. Sometimes I would have to get more strict with my anti-yeast diet and when I would do that, my "lyme symptoms" would become way less.

What I'm trying to say is, please get really strict with your diet and SEE WHAT HAPPENS!!!!

Follow the 5-step plan in the links below and GET SERIOUS about it! Maybe you will find that many of your "lyme symptoms" will subside or go away completely.

I'm not saying that some of you don't have lyme....NOT AT ALL...and I'm not saying I didn't have Lyme...NOPE, I had it!!!

I took abx for 4+ years. When you're debating whether or not to get off abx after several years of abx, go on the anti-yeast diet BIGTIME and see how you feel!

Maybe then you won't relapse!!

Find out which symptoms are from lyme and which are from yeast. Learn to recognize yeast symptoms in your body.

I never once had yeast in my mouth, so don't tell me "well, my dr checks my mouth everytime I go." Doesn't mean much in my book.

Don't say "well, I was always tested thru XYZ lab for yeast....never showed positive." Doesn't mean much in my book.

Go by your SYMPTOMS. Do a trial run of the diet...see what happens. Maybe you can get off abx earlier than you thought you could!!

Candida diet and elimination:
http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/021412.html

http://www.wholeapproach.com/diet/

Lyme symptoms list compared with yeast symptoms
http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/021202.html

"Successful control and elminiation of a Candida Albicans overgrowth requires a multifaceted program as described below. Failure to follow ALL the steps simultaneously will result in slow progress and will lengthen healing time significantly. The program should be tailored to the individual and must balance the need to eliminate the Candida and deprive it of its food source while insuring proper nutrition for the individual."

Five Steps to Candida Elimination:

1. You must starve it into submission by eliminating its food source.

2. You must kill it with anti-fungal herbs and supplements.
[e.g....garlic, onion, caprylic acid, Pau D'Arco capsules or tea, clove, grapefruit seed extract, olive leaf extract, oil of oregano, tea tree oil, Echinacea, Goldenseal, black walnut, MSM, barberry root, uva ursi, neem leaf, biotin]

3. You must reestablish the proper balance and quantity of probiotic bacteria in the digestive tract. [...multi-strain lactobacillus acidophilus and bifidus capsules with FOS should be taken between meals to maximize repopulation of the digestive tract by beneficial bacteria.]

4. You must reestablish proper levels of all B vitamins (yeast free) and utilize other immune enhancing supplements to boost immune system function. [e.g ... B complex vitamins (yeast free), biotin, beta 1-3 glucan, colostrum, maitake mushroom, vitamins A, C, E, zinc and selenium]

5. You must cleanse and heal the digestive tract to promote proper elimination of toxins and Candida and assimilation of nutrients. [e.g...chlorophyll, MSM, omega 3 fatty acids found in flax seed and salmon oils, GLA found in borage, evening primrose and black currant oils. Pantothenic acid, digestive enzymes between meals]

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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sixgoofykids
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You are very right! Back in 1991 during what I know now was a flare-up of my Lyme Disease, I had my amalgams out, detoxed the mercury and went on an anti-candida diet.

I put the disease into almost complete remission until 2003, just some minor fatigue remained, which I attributed to having small children. I was finally diagnosed last December, so this time I was sick four years --Jan 2003-Dec 2006.

Like you, I've got it, I've got it bad. I've got a long way to go on treatment, and bad days are still bad, but I seem to get around pretty well on good days, especially considering I'm only two months into treatment.

For many, I'd bet that candida is a bigger cause of symptoms than the Lyme itself. Right now for me, I think it's babs that's troubling me most.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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stymielymie
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heed this gurus word it is very true!!!!

i found out by accident.
i was always getting oral infections(tongue)
but never though of systemic yeast to much

one day i just felt funny, quizy, stomach rolled
butterflys, just not right.
my tongue was normal but things tasted funny.

i thought as a real doctor, what might cause all these symptoms, and behold the answer came
in a blaze of light in the sky.
YEAST, YEAST ,YEAST & MAYBE SOME MOLD.
i had a bad infection before and had
vfend left over, would would try
and take this vfend for 10 days.
viola 4 days after taking it i was feeling 40% BETTER
so i called my doc,"hey doc i think i found
the answer tosome of our mystery here"
SYSTEMIC YEAST AND MOLDS.

took the vfend for 10 weeks and with the help
of a pulse dose of doxy,plaquenil,acyclovir,
zitromax and vfend i knocked it down to
remission.

i also want people to know the daily stress can keep them from healing also.
i was in remission for 2 months, and boom, kidney stones for 4weeks.
another stress to the body, and out came the
lyme and gone was the nice remission.

so my 100% body, 50% brain and 50% physical
decided, lets try this again and treat it like
a cold.
so 14 days back on my meds, stopped and the
lyme kicked back into remission.

this is my story and may not help you at all or may help.
must have blood work with vfend.
vfend kills yeast, mold and spores.
diflucan only yeast.
i'm not real holistic,some teas but thats about it, i like drugs.

so now in remission for 2 weeks and realized my eyes were burning and skin itching.
"oy vay not again, i can't take it again"
then i thought about all the symptoms and i had a dx, spring alergies.
have not allergies since taking abx, but
since i'm not taking abx, then maybe my body
is slightly back to normal during remission.
took some and now taking zyrtec(claritin d)
and allergy eye drops with antihistamines.
and lo and behold then symptoms went away.

now the mystery, why after all these years did
i get an allergy????
it was because the allergen was a new one
one that i have not seen in many years.

yes , my dogs have fleas, no tics, just fleas.
i was allergic to the dander and flea dander.

i am and am not trying to be funny here.
this is all true.
sometimes you have to look beyond lyme,babs etc
and have the symptoms at the time treated.

since we moved to florida 3 years ago we have not used advantage on the dogs, because they never got fleas. but when we took them to the dog park, fleas jump on and came home
dogs are now suffering but being treated.

i feel like Dr. House on tv.

docdave [woohoo]

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5dana8
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Thank lymetoo for the additonal reminder about yeast & diet problems [Smile]

& Stymie also thanks so much for the information you contributed. Glad you hear you are in remmission these last 2 weeks [Smile]

Stymie was wondering if vfend is a supp or an RX?

I am on sporanox at the moment & wondering if sporanox is as broad spectrum as the vfend?

Thanks again [Smile]
Dana

--------------------
5dana8

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stymielymie
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vfend is px med
need script from doc.
must have monthly liver enzyme tests
http://www.pfizer.com/pfizer/do/medicines/mn_vfend.jsp

docdave

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Vermont_Lymie
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Thanks Lymetoo for the reminder!

I have a problem keeping to the anti-yeast diet.

Friends and relatives keep bringing me chocolate and cake.
People keep offering me wine at parties.

My yeast issue is a will-power issue. So good with my diet
most days, but when I give in to temptation, often I wake up
with a yeast problem the very next day!

Garlic has been a great help in keeping yeast at bay; without
that I would probaby have problems!

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wiserforit
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Tutu!

Thanks for the sage reminders about yeast.

I've really fallen off the wagon and need to give up the beasts of white flour/sugar.

Have you taken the anti-fungal herbs/abx at the same time as you are building up abx for Lyme/co-infections?

I used to take grapefruit seed extract, but my stomach couldn't handle it after a while. Also, Pau D'arco, once my friend, now sends me through the roof!

I read that you aren't supposed to take the antifungals and acidophilus simultaneously since the antifungals cancel out the good of the acidophilus.

So how do you incorporate it all without blowing major fuses?

Suggestions?

wiserforit

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Lymetoo
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"Have you taken the anti-fungal herbs/abx at the same time as you are building up abx for Lyme/co-infections?"

I'm not sure what you mean about building up?? I took Nystatin the entire time I was on abx. Tablets, not the liquid. The liquid contains SUGAR!!! go figure!

I usually took the probiotics before bedtime. That was the easiest time for me. Trying to remember to take it one hr before abx or two hours after was too much for my brain to handle!

I too, fall off the wagon. Getting back on tomorrow! When I begin to cheat, I just continue. It's a vicious cycle since the yeast makes us CRAVE sugar.

When you get the yeast under control, the sugar cravings go WAY DOWN!! So if you can stay strictly on the diet for at least 3 wks, you will see how "easy" it can be to stay off the sugar/white flour/potatoes, etc.

Maybe we can begin a Yeast Buddies thread!
[Cool]

[ 08. April 2007, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: Lymetoo ]

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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humanbeing
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Intersting thread as my recent story might be related...

I have been on abx now for 15 months and was really on a great path. In fact, a couple weeks ago I told my doc that I was turning the corner and havn't felt so much hope in years.

Well, stupid me celebrates by having an enormous ICE CREAM. I should note here that I have not strayed from my no sugar diet since day one.

Well, two days later ALL my lyme symptoms came on with a fury and I had to spend four days flat on my back and sometimes crying in pain. My lymph nodes swelled up like baloons and my head, chest neck and groin pounded in terrible pain. I also had the odd feeling of being hung over.

I am so angry at myself but still can't believe that an ice cream could kill me so badly...is it possible that the sugar feeds not only yeast but also the starving Bb?

Is it possible that sugar opens up cysts?

Needless to say, I will never eat another ice cream again--I hate this disease cause it really sucks every little pleasure from our lives.

--------------------
We are spiritual beings on a human journey...

www.ruggierogallery.com

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Lymetoo
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I think sugar DOES feed the Bb in addition to the yeast. I'm so sorry you had such a terrible reaction.

Yes, Bb does suck the fun out of life in many more ways than one!! [rant]

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Annxyz
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Thank you for this helpful reminder ! Which of the natural supplements do you think work best
to combat yeast ?

Are some better than others ? Oil of oreganao is good , but hard on the stomach .

Anyone have some favorites to fihght yeast ?
I hate taking nystatin .

--------------------
ANNXYZ

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Lymetoo
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Take Nystatin in pill form! Painless and effective!

I used caprylic acid way back, and one of my current favorites is Yeast Fighters by Twinlab. I get it at www.vitacost.com

Yeast Fighters has a combination of natural things to fight the yeast, as the name says!

 -

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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cantgiveupyet
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If it wasnt for this diet, honestly i really think i would be dead by now or close to it.

I did cheat the last few days, 4 white chocolate m&m's and some brown rice crackers and string cheese. Funny, the m&m's tasted bad too me...most sugar does now. I usually crave chicken skin ( my hollistic dr said its something to do with fatty acids) i dunno.

I think sugar and carbs both feed the Bb.

I liked olive leaf for yeast. and of course theralac.

--------------------
"Say it straight simple and with a smile."

"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet,
But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."

-Schopenhauer

pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg

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Truthfinder
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Great remeinder thread about yeast, Lymetutu.

I was trying to remember what you have said in the past about Xango and yeast. I think you said that the Xango is pretty "neutral", and does not contribute to the yeast problem.

Xango won't actually help fight a yeast problem though, will it? What have you noticed?

Thanks,

Tracy

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

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Lymetoo
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For me, it doesn't seem to matter at all, and I take 6 oz per day. Mangosteen is a known anti-fungal so I think that fact overrules the 2 grams of fructose per oz.

I have heard from customers who have said they've had parasites and candida disappear while on it. Even fungus on toenails!

I've been eating Easter candy and Wendy's Frostees. Gotta stop that ASAP! [Big Grin] [bonk]

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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dontlikeliver
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I've for the gazillionth time fallen off the anti-candida-diet wagon also. In fact, I fall off so often for the last year that I'm not sure how many days I've been on it. I seem to do good for perhaps 2-7 days in a row, then bam, sabotage it with something majorly destructive which might take only a day to snap out of or several days - we're talking flour/sugar (not booze).

I am wondering though (Tutu/Dave??) how effective are Nystatin tabs? I take 6 a day (2, 3x a day) for the last 2 months, and prior to that I took 1, 4x a day for at least a year or more)...so I have been doing the Nystatin religiously, plus I've done probably 2.5 months worth of Diflucan in the last year, although not since about December much.

I have low-grade dull stomach aches, often that feel like very deep inside, not near surface of stomach. Because of that I have not been able to regularly take abx (disaster).

More recently when I started Biaxin, after 2-3 weeks I started getting bad knife-like stomach pains about 2 hours after taking the Biaxin, so had to stop it. Each time my stomach feels like it's improving, it starts aching again after about 2-3 days. So, each time I plan to restart abx when stomach improves; the stomach aches come back too and I haven't been able to re-start (with the Mino now)....I am so frustrated and now sicker because I have relapsed a lot in the last month due to lack of treatment so much for the last year due to stomach.

Anyway............the POINT is, TODAY, and last night/overnight, I have had this deep-down stomach ache on and off......consipated, sort of, for the last couple of days (able to go poopies though, just not right) AND I look like a starving child with a huge distended stomach today, except I don't have skinny legs and arms. NOT a pretty sight.....My abdomen is sore if I press it also.

I can't figure out what's going on. On the one hand I think maybe yeast, but on the other, I wonder because although I've not been good with diet enough of the time, I do take 6 Nystatin a day so I wonder how yeast would have time to build up in there.

BTW, my tongue looks like the next person's tongue....sometimes pink, sometimes slighly coated, sometimes downright hairy, but it varies and is never sore. I have always done the anti-yeast mouth routine. So, I don't think I have oral thrush.

I should add, I tried the spit test this morning and it was not very stringy at all. How reliable is this test? Is it folklore?

Expert opinions please.

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Truthfinder
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That's great - thank you kindly, Miss Tutu!

Tracy

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

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Lymetoo
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You're welcome, Tracy!

DLL....Have you ever tried the gluten-free diet?? I would suspect with the deep aches and distended tummy that it could be a problem for you. My intestinal tract used to shut down when I was eating gluten. Horrible feeling.

And yes, you're right....what's left to eat??

The anti-yeast diet became even more difficult for me when I began the gluten-free diet on top of it. UGH!!

Which reminds me....I've got to get to the grocery store today!!!

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Lymetoo
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DLL....Nystatin...how effective?? I really don't know. I think it helps, but all in all DIET is the biggest factor.

We can take all the diflucan and nystatin in the world, but if our diet is lousy... it's all null and void.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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wenan
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Tutu, I have to add my thanks. Today for the first time in a couple months the old chronic agitation and fear has returned. The only thing that I can pin it on is cheating on the diet.

Corn chips, fruit, honey in my tea - I just realized that last night I had two cups of tea with a total of two teaspoons of honey. Usually I limit my tea to one cup a week. Back to square one. It just can get so boring sometimes.

I was in a panic, not sure what was happening but I really think that is it. What have I been thinking?? I know better. Oh well, let's hope the feeling passes -- I don't want to go too far down the panic road - that's awful.

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by wenan:
Tutu, I have to add my thanks. Today for the first time in a couple months the old chronic agitation and fear has returned. The only thing that I can pin it on is cheating on the diet.

=========================
Back to square one. It just can get so boring sometimes.

Yeast is SOOO sneaky! You cheat here and there and the next thing you know you're off the wagon wallowing in the dust!! [Roll Eyes]

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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sactko
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Very good post!!
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Lymetoo
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Thanks, fellow Texan!! [Smile]

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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aiden424
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I can always tell when I've eaten sugar. I have felt really sick the last couple days, but I've also eaten a bunch of Easter candy. I feel much better not eating sugar. The problem is I don't always have the best will power.

Kathy

--------------------
You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have.

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Vermont_Lymie
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I went to a dinner tonight and ate the triple chocolate mousse and had half a glass of wine! AHHHHH......
[bonk]
Thanks Lymetoo we better start the yeast-buster buddies thread,
I think I need a 12-step program!

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by Vermont_Lymie:

Thanks Lymetoo we better start the yeast-buster buddies thread,
I think I need a 12-step program!

Yep, 12 step sounds good to me!! I did better yesterday than I did today. I pledge to behave myself tomorrow. [Roll Eyes]

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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GiGi
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You may still be fighting Lyme; You may not be fighting Lyme. But.....

As long as there is any mercury or other toxic metal in your body, you will have problems with yeast, fungi, mold.

These three are the body's defensive weapons - our body forms yeast to safe the body from destruction. Self-preservation.

The fact that yeast/fungi/mold also have a life cycle and produce their own neurotoxins does not help. Living and dying yeast/fungi/mold pee and poo like any other organism. And you suffer from these type of neurotoxin as much as from the neurotoxins Lyme bacteria leave you with.

Either way, it's worth to get rid of heavy metals. Lyme and heavy metals always live together.

When all symptoms are gone and you can eat again and live again, that's proof that metals are gone and Lyme is gone.

I repeat: as long as you are bothered with yeast, metals are still present. Metals tests do not give conclusive evidence.

Hair tests will - if you show a disturbed mineral balance of the good minerals in your hairtest, you still have the bad minerals/metals in the body. That's a simpler way to determine it. Do some easy metal treatment for a few weeks, then do the hair test. Lyme and heavy metals live together. If the mineral balance in your hair is not good, and bad minerals/metals do not show up in the hair test, it means your body is not releasing the bad ones. And you will have to approach the problem with more direct metal detox treatments.

You might want to download the Interview of Dr. K. on www.klinghardt.org. It takes quite a while to download it. So be patient. But listening to it, is worth your time. I still listen to it once in a while - because I never get everything the first time around. Information overload.

Take care.

Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sparkle7
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I noticed someone mentioned ThreeLac... How is that? Does it work? I read about it & it sounded good.

How about trying to fight the yeast by enhancing the environment to grow bacteria against it & boosting the immune system? I have used chlorophyl type supplements (such as Green Vibrance, etc.) in the past. It's probably impossible to completely get rid of yeast in everyday life unless you live in a hermetically sealed bubble.

I'm pretty new at all of this so I'm trying to figure new solutions to an old problem. People in France have been eating all this yeasty stuff for centuries & don't seem to obsess over the candida situation. I know we have issues due to antibiotics & Lyme but there has to be a solution other than being extreme. I don't really eat alot of junk stuff & I'm moderate about diet. Many things have sugar or produce sugar. A bowl of natural-type cereal with rice milk can have more sugar then a piece of gourmet 75% dark chocolate... Many of our foods are processed to death & may contribute to us not being able to fight off the bad yeasts. It may also be an issue of lack of enzymes(?). I'm just making some educated guesses here.

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jasonsmith
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How do you know if you have a yeast problem? Pics?
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jasonsmith
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How do you know if you have a yeast problem? Pics?
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wenan
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Gigi, I really appreciate your posts. I noticed you don't take PM's so I don't mean to exclude folks by speaking directly to you - I just want to pick your brain [Smile] . I know the metals are going on. During this period of agitation I can taste metal in my mouth - everytime I do detoxing this happens.

I am using bioresonance to detox the metals slowly as I have had rough reactions to the other alternative routes. I have a visit scheduled with an ART doc in May who works specifically with the metals and does cold laser therapy. I have a good dentist to take out the amalgams when the time comes but right now my body is saying it is not ready.

I keep asking for the willingness and know that when it comes the time will be right. For me treatment can feel as though I am chasing my tail. I work some in one area, that calms down, gets a little better, and then something else rears its head.

Right now it looks like the thyroid is acting up - I am off the armour -- I give up on it actually -- no more meds for me -- I honestly feel my thyroid is just reacting to the disharmony in my body (metals) and adding the meds just makes matters worse.

Although, I don't want to go whole hog on the metals until my gut is functioning better and the liver and kidneys. Thanks for your wisdom.

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sizzled
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Up!
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GiGi
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Wenan,

I do not think you can do LED with amalgams still in your mouth ------ I do not know which cold laser therapy you are referring to.

Detoxing heavy metals while still having amalgams in the mouth is not wise. In fact it is something Dr. K. absolutely would not do. Mercury moves into the brain so fast -- not via the blood stream, but straight via neurons. Most Lymies have a damaged blood brain barrier. Every time you chew, hold and cold, etc. you are releasing mercury.

Most likely, the ART person will help you decide.
Mercury definitely messes up the hormone production - it settles on the ligand sites of the hormone producing cells.

It doesn't sound like you are going by ART results now. I am glad you will see someone who does ART soon.. Feel free to e-mail me [email protected] I simply do not care to have to go on Lymenet to answer my e-mails - that's why.

Best wishes and take care.

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Robin123
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Jason -- I think the easiest way to know if you have a yeast problem is if you crave the food the yeast wants -- sugar, bread, fungal foods. You can also get blood and stool tests.
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Robin123
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Re how not to fall off the wagon re the yeast problem, I recommend always carrying some nonyeastfeeding food as a necessary defense.

That way, I'm not starving, I always have something to eat that belongs to the nonyeastfeeding diet, and I'm not tempted to chow down on all the tempting food out there.

Also, I think a once-a-week very small cheat that doesn't cause you to lose the nonyeast diet is ok to do, just for a smidgeon of oldtime enjoyment.

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jasonsmith
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quote:
Originally posted by Robin123:
Jason -- I think the easiest way to know if you have a yeast problem is if you crave the food the yeast wants -- sugar, bread, fungal foods. You can also get blood and stool tests.

Would this be IgG and IgM tests?

I do have some white stuff on my tongue. I tried the clorox bleach trick. I probably didn't do it right. I filled my mouth with water and pored in some clorox bleach. It tasted so bad, I had to spit it all out. For around a week, from the mid to the tip area of my tongue, I couldn't really taste anything. But now, it seems I'm back to normal in tasting foods.

But, from the mid to tip of my tongue, it feels funny. Like the bleach is still on it or something. I guess I would say it is sensitive. It feels funny when I rub my tongue in my mouth.

What did the clorox bleach do?

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by jasonsmith:
How do you know if you have a yeast problem? Pics?

"Don't say "well, I was always tested thru XYZ lab for yeast....never showed positive." Doesn't mean much in my book.

Go by your SYMPTOMS. Do a trial run of the diet...see what happens. Maybe you can get off abx earlier than you thought you could!!"

and yes.....if you're craving potatoes, bread, candy, cokes, you need to do something....it's the yeast calling!! [Smile]

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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