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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Anyone Hear of Lyme Causing Colitis?

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Author Topic: Anyone Hear of Lyme Causing Colitis?
Energy2Heal
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Hello,

After doing lots of research here over the last few days and thinking about the development of my horrible relapse. Two things are apparent:

- I should never have taken two five-day doses of Prednisone for my torn disc and terrible nerve pain (plus I had a cortisone injection in disc in February). Bad Idea.

- The colitis attack I had is suspicious. I've never had that kind of problem before. Could Lyme lodge itself into the large intestine and actually cause colitis? Has anyone heard of or experienced this?

Thanks,

- Andrew

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Vanilla
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I think it can. I had colitis so bad they had to put me in the hospital and give me an IV full of antibiotics for 3 days because I was so dehydrated and sickly. They put me on a liquid diet at the same time.

This was after my bite and before I was diagnosed.

I am also gluten intolerant yet that has never shown up in a test but I am told you can still be gluten intolerant and it will not show up. Yeast lyme who or both???

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sixgoofykids
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I am also gluten intolerant and it didn't show up on tests.

Even gluten-free, I still have many digestive issues. I haven't been diagnosed with anything ... I haven't trusted doctors since I was 5. LOL

I really think it has to do with Lyme. I've had Lyme for 35 years undiagnosed and any time I've had a symptom flare up I've had digestive issues. When I'm not flaring up, my GI tract is fine.

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by AndrewInCA:
Could Lyme lodge itself into the large intestine and actually cause colitis? Has anyone heard of or experienced this?

Absolutely yes! Do a search here for past discussions of intestinal tract problems associated with Lyme.

I'm also gluten intolerant and it didn't show up on a test many years ago......then later showed up.

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Vanilla
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I wonder how many Lyme patients are gluten intolerant?

I found out after I figured out I was gluten intolerant that I have other relatives with the same problem.

I wonder if LD makes people gluten intolerant? Sometimes I feel humans were not made to eat gluten period.

In Italy something like one out of every six kids are gluten intolerant or perhaps that is just a rumor. I do know they test more for it there at a young age from what I read once.

I have a theory that my grandmother might have had LD and passed it down to her off spring.

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Robin123
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Yes. There is somone in the Marin support group with it. Next time I go, I could possibly put you in touch with her.
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JimBoB
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This is the first I have heard of Lyme CAUSING Colitis. I do know some of the abx cause it. Especially Cipro.

I had Colitis and had to have my Colon removed, all of it. But that was before Lyme and after my first dose of Cipro for other problems.

Jim. [Cool]

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Marnie
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Our intestines have an immune barrier. Our epithelial cells do not. These are the cells that line the blood vessels. These cells are that Bb attacks. They lack a defense because nutrients have to pass thru them easily.

Yeast is present in our digestive track. It is kept in balance by the beneficial bacteria.

They are supposed to be IN BALANCE.

The beneficial bacteria also do battle with harmful bacteria...including C.diff. which is also normally present . These all must be IN BALANCE. Here's a link to explain:

http://www.cdiffsupport.com/aboutcdiff.html

"When you easily digest your food, you have a BALANCE of important probiotics in your digestive tract, including acidophilus and yeast."

They both serve purposes.

The steroids are very, very bad in lyme. I know, this happened to my sis too.

They shut down your OWN immune defense system.

Gluten intolerance is on the rise in America.

We are missing the ENZYMES (2) to breakdown gluten.

This all circles back to Mg levels.

Mg is needed to MAKE as well as CONTROL many enzymes.

In addition:

Mg and Ca are needed to make HEALTHY antibodies/to make them work. Damaged antibodies don't work. Giving Mg (IV) restored these antibodies abiltiy to do their job! (documented below)

One of TNF alpha's many jobs is to rid the body of imperfect antibodies.

Our own antibodies are not "perfect" fighters against Bb, why?

"Characterization of the physiological requirements for the

bactericidal effects of a monoclonal antibody to OspB of Borrelia burgdorferi

by confocal microscopy.

(My note here...bactericidal is bacteria killing.)

The bactericidal effect of Fab-CB2 is not dependent on the induction of spirochetal proteases but

is dependent on the presence of Ca2+ and Mg2+.

Supplementation of Ca2(+)- and Mg2(+)-free medium with these cations

restored the bactericidal effects of Fab-CB2.

The mechanism by which a Fab fragment of an antibody destroys a bacterium directly may represent a novel form of antibody-organism interaction."

PMID: 9125579

So without Mg-Ca levels being "right", a part of the antibody doesn't work. Is the fab portion damaged or does it just not work if the entire sytem is out of Mg-Ca balance?

A ``novel form of antibody-organism interaction?'' I don't THINK so!

E. Required by immunological process. Magnesium, immunity, and allergy: Mg is required for several steps of immunological reactions

1. Lymphoblastic transformation, a prerequisite of secretion of antibodies by lymphoblasts, requires Ca2+ and Mg2+

2. Mg is required for synthesis of proteins, immunoglobulins included

3. Antibody-induced complement activation is Mg dependent

4. The antigen-immunoglobulin-complement reaction induces degranulation of the mastocyte

http://www.mdschoice.com/elements/elements/major_minerals/magnesium.htm

Try Kefir for the colitis.

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levity101
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Andrew,
This is from the LDA's ABCs of Lyme brochure. It refers to peds. patients, but is true for adults as well.

"Gastrointestinal Lyme
Martin D. Fried, MD
Director, Pediatric Gastroenterology and Nutrition
Assistant Program Director, Department of Pediatrics
Jersey Shore Medical Center, Neptune, NJ
Lyme disease has been reported in the gastrointestinal tract
of children and adolescents. Pediatric gastrointestinal Lyme
disease may present as abdominal pain, vomiting, diarrhea,
heartburn, blood in the stool, and it may mimic Crohn's disease
or colitis. Blood tests for diagnosing Lyme disease may be
negative while gastrointestinal and other Lyme disease symptoms
persist. The diagnosis is made clinically on the basis of symptoms
and by excluding other possible etiologies.
Once treatment has begun with antibiotics, most patients
reported a decrease in the frequency and severity of their
abdominal pain....
In addition to Lyme disease, other co-infections such as
Bartonella, mycoplasma, H. pylori and babesia have been
confirmed to occur in the GI tract."

Also, as I said in another post, my son's "Crohn's disease" turned out out to be a Bartonella infection. Few docs ever look for a causitive agent when dealing with colitis, Crohn's or other IBDs. I know you tested neg. for Bart at one time, but Bart. testing isn't always accurate either.

So, unless you have a positive test from biopsy it's impossible to know for sure if your colitis is caused by a TBD, but it certainly is a possiblity.

Good luck,
Nancy

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Marnie
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IF Bb is present in the intestines, it should be easy to erradicate no matter what the form (even cyst).

Pepto Bismol, 2 tablets, along with 1 Zantac at bedtime for one week only.

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Truthfinder
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Do a search here for the "Bell's Palsy of the Gut" article - I think anybody with Lyme and GI issues should read that article.

There are two relatively rare GI disorders listed in that article that have 'no known cause'; I have one of those disorcers and my boyfriend has the other one, and we are both positive for the Bb bug.

Tracy

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Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�.

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Energy2Heal
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OK, did more research on Bismuth and saw Buhner's comment, and others on "BP of the Gut".

Buhner say "Ranitidine Bismuth Citrate" is no longer available. I understand the Pepto, for the bismuth, and the Zantac is Ranitidine.

But do taking these two things together do the same thing as taking the original drug? Has anyone tried this specific combination?

Best,

- Andrew

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levity101
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Just curious, Marnie, why you say that one week of treatment would be capable of killing Bb in the gut?...or anywhere for that matter. Wish it were so simple...

Truthfinder, if you don't mind, what were the two rare disorders mentioned in the article? Was biliary dyskinesia one of them?

Nancy

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Truthfinder
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Nancy, I have a condition called 'acquired megacolon', and my BF has something called 'proctalgia fugax' (hope I spelled that right).

We both think we have had the Bb bug since we were kids, but we are from totally different areas of the country.

Tracy

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�.

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Marnie
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My sister's LLMD (while she was on abx and a ton of supplmements...including probiotics) gave her the okay to try this combination (Pepto Bismol + Zantac).

If a LLMD had not said this was okay to try, I wouldn't have posted this. It appears safe.

Bismuth is a weird metal. It is used in...get this...levitation tricks! Only 2 forms are okay for human consumption...citrate and salicylate.

OUR military has the world's largest permanent magnet made of Mn-Bi. I sure as heck wonder WHY.

Tritec IS available in Europe. It is...get this...made by an American pharm. company. It is not sold here because there was "no demand for it".

I hope this adaptation works. I think it might.

Lower the stomach acids...then the Pepto Bismol can do its job.

However, there IS a difference between citrates and salicylates. Here is the original abstract that this refers to:

Susceptibility of motile and cystic forms of Borrelia burgdorferi to ranitidine bismuth citrate.

Brorson O, Brorson SH.

Department of Microbiology, Vestfold Sentralsykehus, Tonsberg, Norway.

Gastrointestinal symptoms accompanying Lyme disease have not been considered in the treatment of Lyme patients yet.

Here we examine the effect of ranitidine bismuth citrate (RBC) on motile and cystic forms of Borrelia burgdorferi in vitro, to determine whether it could cure this bacterial infection in the gastrointestinal tract.

(My note squeezed in here...Rantidine bismuth citrate is Tritec. Rantidine is in Zantac. Pepto bismol is bismuth subsalicylate, NOT bismuth citrate.)

When motile forms of B. burgdorferi were exposed to RBC for 1 week at 37 degrees C, the minimal bactericidal concentration (MBC) was > 64 mg/ml. At 30 degrees C, the MBC was > 256 mg/ml. When the incubation lasted for 2 weeks at 37 degrees C, the MBC dropped to > 2 mg/ml.

Bismuth aggregates were present on the surface of B. burgdorferi when RBC > or = MBC, as shown by transmission electron microscopy (TEM). Cystic forms of B. burgdorferi, exposed to RBC for 2 weeks at 37 degrees C, were examined by cultivation in BSK-H medium (Sigma B3528).

They were stained with acridine orange (pH 6.4, pH 7.4) and studied by TEM. The MBC for RBC for young cystic forms (1 day old) and old cysts (8 months old) was estimated to be > 0.125 mg/ml and > 2 mg/ml, respectively.

Bismuth aggregates were attached to the cysts and, in some, the pin-shaped aggregates penetrated the cyst wall.

The bismuth aggregates also bound strongly to blebs and granules of B. burgdorferi when RBC > or = MBC.

When B. burgdorferi is responsible for gastrointestinal symptoms, bismuth compounds may be candidates for eradication of the bacterium from the gastrointestinal tract.

PMID: 12051564

Note: this was done in vitro, not in vivo. Petri dish versus live animal testing.

Pepto Bismol is bismuth subsalicylate . Some long time lyme patients develop an "allergic" reaction to aspirin - salicylates.

I suspect this is a herx response. I believe NO...nitric oxide to dilate the vessels, AND salicylates - good old aspirin - to "thin" the blood are very important to clear Bb from the system. We must be able to REACH the infection.

In gluconeogenesis, citrate levels are ALREADY UP. When we make glucose from non-carbon sources, this is what happens:

Low F-2, 6 BP
Low AMP
High citrate
High glucagon
High Acetyl CoA

Bb wants this to happen. It wants an ongoing source of glucose from NON CARBON sources...including specific amino acids. It is critical you understand that.

Bb uses glucose, triggers us to make more because the cells are crying out for more. Our cell need glucose. Bb is gobbling it all up.

Bb wants to build its lipoprotein cell wall itself. "I'll do it myself" sorta thing.

Go here for more info. on Tritec (including warnings):

http://health.yahoo.com/drug/d04042a1

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by blackmon:
Just curious, Marnie, why you say that one week of treatment would be capable of killing Bb in the gut
Nancy

I thought that regimen was for H.pylori??

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Opinions, not medical advice!

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by Vanilla:
I wonder how many Lyme patients are gluten intolerant?

I found out after I figured out I was gluten intolerant that I have other relatives with the same problem.

I wonder if LD makes people gluten intolerant? Sometimes I feel humans were not made to eat gluten period.

Have you read THIS??
http://dogtorj.net/id1.html

VERY eye opening!!

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Marnie
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Lymetoo...

RE-read the post above.

"Susceptibility of motile and cystic forms of Borrelia burgdorferi to ranitidine bismuth citrate."

"When B. burgdorferi is responsible for gastrointestinal symptoms, bismuth compounds may be candidates for eradication of the bacterium from the gastrointestinal tract ."

"Magnesium
An essential mineral.

The chief function of magnesium is to activate certain enzymes, especially those related to carbohydrate metabolism.

Another role is to maintain the electrical potential across nerve and muscle membranes. It is essential for proper heartbeat and nerve transmission.

Magnesium controls many cellular functions. It is involved in protein formation, DNA production and function and in the storage and release of energy in ATP. Magnesium is closely related to calcium and phosphorus in body function. "

Mg also is an anti-histamine and anti-inflammatory. It INactivates HMG CoA reductase (as does glucagon) to halt VLDL release from the liver. The body is trying to halt Bb from building its cell wall.

Mg (together with Ca) is needed to make antibodies.

Mg-ATP INactivates PFK.

What do you THINK will happen to enzyme levels if Mg levels drop and continue their downward spiral?

There are 2 enzymes needed to digest gluten.

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by Marnie:
Lymetoo...

RE-read the post above.

"Susceptibility of motile and cystic forms of Borrelia burgdorferi to ranitidine bismuth citrate."

thanks....interesting!

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Opinions, not medical advice!

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Lymetoo
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Cranial nerves and Bells Palsy of the Gut
http://www.geocities.com/playpub/LD-Cranial-Nerves.htm

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Marnie
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There is definitely a mind-gut connection. Serotonin, for example is made in our gut.

We have to have a healthy gut in order to be able to absorb nutrients.

Nutrients make the neurotransmitters.

If we lack the beneficial bacteria which help us to make and absorb nutrients...

Down go the neurotransmitters...all of them...they dive.

For my son, his testosterone level (from cholesterol) soared to protect him. Meanwhile his cholesterol level dropped to 86. This is a cancer marker. I was freaked.

Food poisoning + appendectomy + abx = no beneficial bacteria left.

The body thought it was under a MAJOR attack and so broke down (acidic) cholesterol to fight.

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levity101
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Marnie, interesting information and good that you printed out the Brorson and Brorson article for those who haven't seen it.

But, as you said, the experiment was an in vitro study with an arbitrary treatment period of one week - then they examined results. This really in no way correlates to how long it would take in the human body for the ranitidine bismuth citrate to clear up a Bb infection in the gut. As far as I know this study hasn't been done in humans. Worth trying, but hard to know how long to treat.

Nancy

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Marnie
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"Traditional" abx. use is about 1 week.

Bismuth is pretty powerful. I'm leary of multiple doses per day.

I'm not sure of the impact on the "good guys" too.

Sis did the above 2x (dose each night before bed for one week only)...spaced out a few weeks.

All I can say is she thought it helped.

Sis rarely had yeast problems in the 3yrs. of abx. She was very good about taking good probiotics.

She also did not suffer any "neuro" problems. I attribute that to the Ginkgo in the Pharmanex vits. she took (2 packs per day).

It looks like colitis is more often a C.diff. problem...and supposedly Kefir works.

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Tickn
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My worst symptom for the last 14 yrs was constant intestinal problems. I had been to a number of GI docs who dx me with colitis.

When I became lost driving home from work one night, my GI sent me to John Hopkins where they determined I may have Lyme disease.

I was able to contact and visit an llmd who placed me on diflucan and proboitics. All of my intestinal symptoms disappeared, finally a normal stool even on antibiotics!!!

Before the diflucan I was in constant misery, pooping on myself going to work, at work, ect. Imodium became my way of life and I never left home without 3-4 in my pocket.

Even though I have a long way to go in treatment, I feel VERY fortunate I can at least get out and work without being embarassed.
Best of luck,
Ken

--------------------
"We can easily forgive a child whom is frightened of the dark: the real tragedy is when men are afraid of the light."
Plato

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lymebytes
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Andrew, OMG I feel for you! Cortisone is what disseminated by LD body-wide. I will of course never take a cortisteroid again. First I did a "topical" prescribed version then finally shots and that was it - life hasn't been the same since.

I see you are in N. Cal, so am I. Are you seeing Dr.S in S.F.? Very good LLMD, some say the best.

Take care.

--------------------
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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by Tickn:
When I became lost driving home from work one night, my GI sent me to John Hopkins where they determined I may have Lyme disease.

Johns Hopkins??
[Eek!] That's a shocker!!! [Eek!]

You are one lucky person!!

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Opinions, not medical advice!

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monkeyshines
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Marnie,

"Pepto Bismol, 2 tablets, along with 1 Zantac"

Would you take the Zantac even if you're already taking Nexium daily?

I have recent (3 weeks now) colitis-type symptoms that I want to treat.

monkeyshines

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Marnie
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The stomach is very, very acidic. So acidic that new stomach cells are made daily. This is the fastest cell turnover in the body.

When food enters our mouth, saliva triggers the breakdown of sugars and simple carbs...beginning the breakdown of food.

We use sugars and carbs first...easiest to breakdown. We need an ongoing supply of glucose.

This triggers the stomach - HCL release to prepare the stomach to digest the more complex nutrients in food...complex carbs, proteins and fats. HCL (hydrochloric acid) and digestive enzymes kick in.

We must be able to break the proteins and fats down in order to reach the amino acids in them. To resupply our amino acids....which are the building blocks of proteins.

In the intestine, other things are released and enter the intestines to further digest the more complex foods. Pancreatic enzymes and bile salts (made in the liver and stored in the gall bladder) are released.

Pretty much of the breakdown happens in the small intestine. The large intestine is where water is reabsorbed...primarily, but not exclusively.

This gets tricky. Mg does reduce stomach acids, as does Zantac.

Personally, when I have heartburn on occasion (I think H.Pylori is an ongoing battle...I think we are exposed to it over and over), I prefer Zantac over taking Mg to help reduce stomach acids which are in overproduction to combat H. Pylori.

Acids DO destroy pathogens. Too many harm healthy cells.

The test for H. Pylori/stomach ulcer...I had this done in ER when I thought I was having a heart attack years ago...tremenous chest pain...is this:

The ER doctor secretly told the nurse to go get something. She came back with a small plastic cup of a liquid that had no odor. It was about 2 ounces.

The doctor told me to drink it fast.

I did so and wham. I said, "That is alcohol!" He had just given me a shot of booze.

The pain went away immediately.

He then told me I had a stomach ulcer...H. Pylori was destroying my stomach lining.

H. Pylori and Bb appear to be able to hang out in a very acidic environment. Which acids make a difference.

The intestines, as I understand it,are not acidic themselves (the lining of) and have an immune system barrier. Otherwise the acids would destroy the beneficial bacteria that make many things for us. Lactobacillus, for example appears to make additional vitamin B6 which is destroyed by stomach acids.

Isn't it amazing how complex our body is? You just have to stand back in awe.

Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JimBoB
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Marnie wrote:

Pretty much of the breakdown happens in the small intestine. The large intestine is where water is reabsorbed...primarily, but not exclusively.
##

You are correct. Two other VERY important elements that are absorbed are Potassium and Salt.

These are the three items I have to always be more than careful to get more of than most of you. Since I have no colon. I wish the colon absorbed fat instead of the small intestine too.

Jim [Cool]

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