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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » detox agents help even without abx?

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Author Topic: detox agents help even without abx?
Radha
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i wanted to know if things like detox max or chlorella or chitosan would help at all in any way even when you are not taking any abx, and is there any die off occurring or anything being killed when you are getting the chills and sweats even without the antibiotics? thanks for any advice
radha

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seibertneurolyme
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If you have Babesia the chills and sweats actually mean the bugs are multiplying. When the red blood cells burst and the new baby babesia go out to find a new red blood cell to infect -- that is what causes the chills and the sweats. Your immune system is reacting to all the toxic invaders.

Detox things will help with stomach aches and maybe headaches or some other symptoms. But that is all they are -- symptom control -- will not kill anything.

Immune boosters such as Reishi mushrooms or possibly adaptogens such as ginseng or rhodiola might make your immune system more active and at least keep you from getting a cold or virus on top of Lyme and coinfections. If you are really really lucky then your immune system may start fighting some of the bugs.

This is just my opinion and not medical advice.

Bea Seibert

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MariaA
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Siberian Ginseng, not 'regular' panax or other ginseng, please- there's a big difference in terms of possible side effects. Siberian Ginseng is pretty good for many of us Lymies.

--------------------
Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!

Find me at Lymefriends, I post under the same name.
diet: http://lymefriends.ning.com/group/healthylowcarbrecipes
Homemade Probiotics thread
Herbal Links Thread

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Radha
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thanks so much for the replies, bea seibert, if you dont mind, could you please tell me where or who told you that the sweats mean the bugs are multiplying? i was very surprised to hear that, thanks,
radha

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MariaA
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I'm pretty sure it works that way in malaria, which is quite similar to babesia. If you google malaria or look at it's wikipedia page there's probably info on the sweats cycle that those patients go through, though babesia doesn't seem to be quite as regular as malaria (which sometimes settles into a two days of health followed by two days of sweats cycle).

--------------------
Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!

Find me at Lymefriends, I post under the same name.
diet: http://lymefriends.ning.com/group/healthylowcarbrecipes
Homemade Probiotics thread
Herbal Links Thread

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clairenotes
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My TCM doctor told me that Siberian Ginseng can strengthen certain pathogens. I found this to be true in my own personal experience, though I was able to use it for a couple of years with great benefits. I used it more for energy.

So it can be a good supplement. But if you do take it, just make sure to pay attention to your symptoms.

Taking chlorella is really nourishing for me and I would take it whether detoxing or not as I believe it is very rich in many nutrients. But some brands can cause stomach upset, perhaps more so with the broken cell-wall form.

I, too, have heard something about sweating and bugs multiplying, but I just can't remember where it came from.

Claire

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jasonsmith
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Now, when the RBC's burst, is that when you start sweating?

Or, does Babesia just cause you to sweat easily?

I do have some night sweats. But I notice that I sweat alot more when I get hot than I used to. I sweat alot in my crotch/butt crack area. Before I got sick, I never sweated there.

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GiGi
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Radha,

Chlorella is a perfect nutrient and works on many levels:

Healing Benefits:

Chlorella has multiple health inducing effects. Listed below are just a few of the_published
effects that have been demonstrated. -

* Antiviral (especially effective against the cytomegaly virus and herpes)

* Toxin binding (mucopolysaccharide membrane) for all known toxic metals,
environmental toxins, such as dioxin, and others

* Repairs and activates the body's detoxification functions

* Dramatically increases reduced glutathion

* Sporopollein is as effective as cholestyramin in binding neurotoxins and
more effective in binding toxic metals than any other natural substance.

* Various chlorella peptides restore coeruloplasmin and metallothionine

* Lipids (12.4 %) alpha-and gamma-linoleic acid help to balance the increased
intake of fish oil during our detoxification program and are necessary for a
multitude of functions, including formation of their peroxisomes.

* Methyl-cobolamine is food for the nervous system. It restores damaged
neurons and has its own detoxifying effect.

* Chlorella Growth Factor helps the body detoxify itself in a yet not
understood and profound way. It appears that over millions of years chlorella
has developed specific detoxifying proteins and peptides for every existing
toxic metal.

* The porphyrins in chlorophyl have their own strong metal binding effect. Chlorophyll also
activates the PPAR-receptor on the nucleus of the cell which is responsible for the
transcription of DNA and coding the formation of the peroxisomes (see fish oil), opening
of the cell wall (unknown mechanism) which is necessary for all detoxification procedures.

* Super nutrient: with a 50-60% amino acid content it is an ideal nutrient for
vegetarians. Methylcobolamin - the most easily absorbed and utilized form of
B12, B6, minerals, chlorophyll, beta carotene etc.

* Immune system strengthening
* Restores bowel flora
* Digestive aid (bulking agent)
* Alkalinizing agent (important for patients with malignancies)

Chitosan works as a mop-up agent for neurotoxins to prevent reabsorption.

Detox Max, also called Phospholipid Exchange detoxifies heavy metals, hydrocarbons and environmental toxins and substantially enhances cardiovascular and circulatory health. Increases peripheral and brain circulation. Increases fluidity of red blood cell membranes, etc. etc.


I am sure I posted about the Phospholipids Exchange/Detox Max before, so if you are curious, do a search here.

If you are as toxic as most of us are or were, you won't go wrong with the three you mentioned.

I used Detox Max and still do, a few drops of it, as a carrier for the good minerals into the cells. It produces 'true' plasma soluble ion exchange properties thereby minimizing beneficial mineral excretion. Without a sound mineral base detoxing is very difficult. Microbes flourish in a toxic terrain.

Chlorella is a great detox support. www.neuraltherapy.com/articles - look for "Neurotoxin Elimination Protocol".

Chills and sweats can be brought on by a number of conditions and it's best to have your doctor advise you on this.

Take care.

P.S. Excessive sweating = adrenal exhaustion; maybe some adrenal support. There are posts on this subject here also. NatuRx has a good adrenal support liquid.

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jasonsmith
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Would the adrenal support be Iodine? Or am I thinking of something else?
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Radha
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i dont go thru cycles, i only get the chills sweats in deep sleep not even half asleep, and its every time, whether night or if i take a nap during the day and i wake up just feeling much much worse in general and even bone pain and all the aches are worse after i sleep, i am not hot when i get the sweating, very cold, do any of you only get these cold sweats in sleep? thanks so much for all your help, i am worried that the sweats mean the bugs are multiplying! had never heard that before! if any of you know of a specific article, please post the link,
radha
radha

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GiGi
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"Detox things will help with stomach aches and maybe headaches or some other symptoms. But that is all they are -- symptom control -- will not kill anything."

I do need to disagree with this statement.

Detoxing in a big way is what resulted in the cure for me.

Detoxing removed the roadblocks for meds (pharma and herbals) to reach the sites where they needed to go to become effective.

We also know today that removing/detoxing the body of sulfa residuals is necessary so the heavy metals, the most difficult roadblocks on the hormone producing ligand sites, can be successfully removed. This is done today with LED today. Much easier and more effectively than what I went through some years ago before LED was developed. I have posted about LED.

Many killing meds cannot be effective unless they reach the sites where the infection is. As long as people walk around with a toxic colon, leaky gut, hampered circulation, etc., many meds will not be work because they cannot reach where needed.

Detoxification is most important, without a doubt.

Take care.

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CaliforniaLyme
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I've had both Malaria AND Babesiosis (things LOVE to BITE me*)! and I've spent time in India) and they felt very different to me. With malaria I had recurrent fevers, sweats and was very hallucinatory. With babs I HAD a fever but did NOT feel feverish instead had 24-7 CHILLS never ever warm always chills so cold (but had fever) and no sweats until Herxing/Mepron/Art!!
Malaria I experienced as quite acute and Babs as chronic- (but also, I could have sequestered malaria WITh the Babs, great thought*!)*!)!

--------------------
There is no wealth but life.
-John Ruskin

All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer

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clairenotes
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Radha -- I have read so much over the years I have been ill, that sometimes things are just a blur. I can't recall where I read the information about the connection, or a possible connection, between microbes and sweating.

But I try to make sure that I take some type of bug killing agent if I am not on anything already, during a time of inexplicable sweating, such as night sweating, just in case the above is true.

It is true that detox remedies cannot kill microbes alone. But I believe it is also true that detoxing would probably make the anti-microbial agents more effective, in addition to making us feel better.

Claire

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seibertneurolyme
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Gigi,

I didn't say that detox was not important. I answered the question -- Can detox agents help without antibiotics?

It is my opinion that detox is just as important as antibiotics (drug or herbal). I don't think just detox or just antibiotics alone will cure anyone -- it takes both.

This is just my personal opinion of course.

Radha,

I know it was a doc that explained the sweating and Babesia to hubby. Pretty sure I have read it somewhere as well, but don't have time to look up the reference right now as hubby has been having a really rough time the last few weeks.

Bea Seibert

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jasonsmith
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Well then, what are some good detox things?
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Radha
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i didnt ask if the detox agents would kill anything, i wanted to know if when you are getting the terrible chills and cold sweats in sleep, are any of the bugs being killed at that time, or even multiplying more, and if bugs were being killed during the sweats, then would taking detox agents help to get the die off out of the body? thanks again for all your replies,
radha

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map1131
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Don't forget your own immume system should be killing off pathogens every day without doing abx. Anytime your own immune eliminates some pathogen it needs support in getting rid of dead crap or it can be re-absorbed through the intestines & colon.

So the answer is ill or healthy you should do whatever you can to help body eliminate toxins daily. Detox is key.

Pam

--------------------
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chootik
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GiGi

Hi. My name is Maryam and am fairly new here. I have read a few of your older posts and am wondering how you're doing?

I know you followed Dr. K's protocol and I have tried some of her stuff too.

Are you totally recovered? I'm new to treatment but the more I read here the more it seems recovery is not possible or very very rare. It's really scary.

Your story was incouraging and I'm wondering if you're still doing good and what treatment or maintaince are you doing now?

Thanks for the help.

Maryam

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GiGi
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Bea, detoxing, in my opinion, and every doctor I have heard speak volumes during seminars, is the starting point toward wellness. No medicine in the world will help if the gut is plugged up, if the lymphatics are overloaded, etc.

The LED treatments work so well, because they are strictly based on detoxing every possible "contaminant" in the early stages. The killing meds follow and are much more effective then.

Detoxing is not merely to eliminate headaches or a bad stomach as you indicated --- detoxing clears the road for the medicines to work because a toxic body is unable to transport the medicines to the body compartments where they are needed.

Detox is not merely symptom control - detox is very much part of the road to wellness. That is particularly important, if a person is very toxic, if killing meds are added in too early where the body cannot handle the fallout yet, that's when the overload crashes and ER visits happen.

If acute as opposed to chronic, the story is different, I agree.

But that's allright - you have your opinion, I have mine.

Take care.

p.s. and there is plenty die-off during detoxing, especially with chlorella - definitely, even without abx. Please read the research that I quoted above for Chlorella.

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GiGi
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Maryam, Dr. K. is not a "her". If you are referring to a Dr. P.K., PhD, I have met and know her well, but she has never been my doctor.

Dr. D.K., M.D. PhD's approach and protocol is totally different for every patient. He was my doctor and teacher.

Yes, I am totally recovered.
I did over a period of a few years possibly a total of 6-8 months of antibiotics. That's all.
Everything else was done by detoxing heavy metals, removing root canals and cavitations, and more detoxing of metals, chemicals, treating parasites, fungi, viruses, etc. that seemed to take forever. All with very few pharma drugs, but mainly different herbals/naturals.

I am still doing very well after 6 years. Relapse never enters my mind. I cleaned up my body, including unloading some emotional garbage that I had accumulated over the years. That seems to be a bigger problem for people while they are not realizing it. I was up on our shed roof, story and a half, the other day cleaning off the debris fallen from huge cedar trees. I am past 75 doing very well. I love good food and don't eat junk if I can help it. I don't do what they call exercising because I am constantly on the move in and out, up and down, doing and learning.

I wish you good things. Be positive and ignore the negative nellies.

Don't let the negative persons discourage you. They are everywhere in life.

I am still posting here because it has helped some people.

I am very excited about the LED treatments that are becoming available more and more -- I wish we had those years ago. I would encourage anyone with a chronic disease to do some research on that type of treatment/detoxification.

Take care.

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Robin123
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I am trying liquid zeolite drops for detox now. I'm very sensitive, so am only doing one drop at a time in 8 oz water.

There is also powdered zeolite.

Zeolite traps heavy metals, so I understand. Anyone tried zeolite detox? -- Robin

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clairenotes
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A practitioner whose opinions I really value suggested I try zeolite once. I declined mainly due to the price, but have always wondered how effective it is.

Please let us know how you do.

Claire

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GiGi
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Zeolite drops is an expensive version of zeolite.
Look up Destroxin - it works great and is very reasonable in price. It is a great mop-up agent.

Take care.

P.S. If you do a search here, I posted a lot about Zeolite and Destroxin a couple or so months ago. See if you can find the booklet - it costs about $3.00 plus a few pennies and describes Zeolite. If you can't go the Chlorella way, Destroxin is great. Not the $50.oo a half ounce Zeolite multi-marketing type!

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jasonsmith
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Which is better, Chlorella or Destroxin?
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GiGi
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Chlorella is a complete nutrient per my post above. Zeolite is a mop-up agent for neurotoxins

I like to use both avoiding becoming "incompatible" with any of them.
I like to alternate what goes on my body or in my mouth, including real food.

With either of them, be sure to take enough Magnesium Malate and some clean Vitamin C (not corn derived) too much corn everywhere) during the day to avoid sluggish stool. If that (B.M.) does not work 3 times a day, minimum 2, it's a negative (leaky gut and reabsorption of toxins)

Take care.

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jasonsmith
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So, you are saying I need to have a bowel movement 3 times a day to get rid of toxins?
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CaliLymer
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Hi Gigi,

What does Magnesium malate do for the stomach?? I get horrible stomach issues, green stool and constipation and it gives me rahses from all the toxic build up.

Thanks,

Calilymer

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